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 LAEPF
Joined: 3/18/2016
Msg: 51
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!Page 3 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
I've had this happen, a lot. Fizzling out after some chats where there was mutual interest, asking me to call then not picking up when I did or really uncomfortable dates where he seemed like he just wanted to get it the heck over with.

I've analyzed it (at least in my situations) as this: I am out of his league and not the other way around. It is not an ego thing on my part. You seem like an intelligent woman, friendly, probably a good conversationalist and you are nice looking too. A guy who is not super confident, is insecure etc., WANTS to meet someone like you, TRIES to meet someone like you, DREAMS of meeting someone like you but then simply chicken's out when the rubber meets the road.

It's lack of confidence on his part. That's the bottom line.

Leslie:)
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 52
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/23/2016 9:40:58 PM


I am out of his league and not the other way around.


Physically out of his league?

Why would you try to date a man not as attractive as you.

Ya know, in the same...league?

Anytime a woman out of my league sends me a message, I always wonder what the motive is.

I must lack confidence, eh?

Knowing what league/lane you're in helps to weed out agendas.

Whether that agenda is sex or money is the million dollar question :(
 LAEPF
Joined: 3/18/2016
Msg: 53
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/23/2016 9:47:16 PM
I agree with everything you said TrvstinKarma. Get picky. Don't settle. Be alright with ourselves. Sometimes it's boring but I'm never lonely. I'd rather be alone on this saturday night then out with some d-bag who doesn't want to be there either!

Leslie:)
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 54
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/23/2016 9:53:33 PM
Extreme vanity is a disgusting trait.

If you think men not as attractive as you will commit easily, you're probably...broke.

YMMV
 LAEPF
Joined: 3/18/2016
Msg: 55
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/23/2016 10:07:53 PM
clooneystutor- These have just been my experiences. It is much less a physical thing, like, I was better looking or something. It was more in 'personality'. I am outgoing, expressive and make great eye contact. I am not intense or dramatic. But, I also like to talk about intelligent things and I have a sarcastic sense of humor. I felt, with the ones who fizzled out, that the more they got to know me, they somehow seemed intimidated. Plus, the in person dates I had, the guys were very reserved, closed off. I've been very attracted to men who were not overly physically attractive. I was attracted to their confidence, sense of humor, intelligence, compassion. I've also dated men who made less money than me. OLD makes it quite hard to get to know someone before you meet. These have been my personal experiences when things have fizzled out, so to speak. Not directing it at anyone else or saying that every single guy who fizzles out lacks confidence. But, there could be something to what I'm saying because it has happened to me more than once.

Leslie:)
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 56
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/23/2016 10:43:11 PM
Thank you for clarifying Leslie.

Yes, some men will be intimidated by confident and intelligent women.

I find it sexy myself but I admit, it can be a tad intimidating when us men are used to meeting women that expect men to take the lead so to speak.

You're supposed to act dumb and aloof, remember?? (sorry, bad joke)

I've gotten 'cold feet' before and it was always because I was trying to date too soon after a break up.

I don't get cold feet anymore.

YMMV
 hemingway234
Joined: 6/6/2015
Msg: 57
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/24/2016 1:09:23 PM
Try to deal with guys who show more genuine interest. Here are a couple of new rules for you:

1) Look for guys who ask YOU for a date, without you having to set it up. Most good guys will anyway.

2) Deal with guys who call for a date, rather than just text. It's easier to text than to call.

3) Look for guys who offer to pick you up from your home after you have met them. If you would feel more comfortable meeting them a second time rather than having them pick you up, that's fine, negotiate - but look for them to offer to pick you up.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 58
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Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/24/2016 1:50:58 PM
You'll run into this once in a while. But here's the thing: Is Always running into this the norm? NO. Especially for a pretty gal like yourself in a decent age-group. So it has to do with you and your choices, that you are unaware of, if this happens too often.

Shows that he is fully interested → Try to plan date → Date fizzles out → I figure they are not interested → Somehow, they find themselves back to me, saying hi on text or give me a flirt on POF.

Basically interest Drops, but not necessarily at zero. If you end up in this pattern, there are two main possibilities when it's a pattern:

a) There's something about you that you say, explicitly or implicitly -- or only availability when it's in prime free-time for folks, that turns them off as you being a prime option.
b) You're aiming for guys who are a bit out of your league.
c) A date wasn't Really set in stone, but to you it was; to him it wasn't set in stone

'c' will be more prevalent when they have lack of interest of course, which is where this whole concept buds from. 'b' is probably the main thing and/or 'a', and they can coincide.

If you're going after the small % of guys who have a lot of pretty-girl attention on here, he wouldn't have to be out of your league per se, but if you say some things about yourself, like "I like to be friends first," or "I don't sleep with a guy on the first date," that can turn them off -- even when they weren't banking on literally having sex with you on the 1st date (but a gal saying that cries out 'hoops' to jump thru in general), it turns them off, while another gal within your greater league and Available will be a higher priority. I don't know what's said and whatnot, but don't rule out how you come across as being a factor.

Also, availability: Only being able to see a social guy for the 1st time on a Fri or Sat night isn't always the best. You shouldn't see an always-happens pattern, but it will contribute to it, especially when he's a social guy liking the single life + you're not out of his league or anything.

In order to see the true reasons why/how, one would have to see all emails/texts + the other guy's profile (and yours of course) -- to be able to see why it's a pattern and not a classic once-in-a-while-happens sort of thing. If it's Always happening -- it's not randomness of POF's fault. :)
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 59
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/24/2016 2:23:44 PM
Okay Mr. Norwegian......what the heck does this mean?


"or only availability when it's in prime free-time for folks, that turns them off as you being a prime option."
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 60
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/24/2016 2:35:35 PM
Man, that's some deep jargon.

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.


- Rumsfeld
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 61
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Posted: 4/24/2016 2:37:40 PM

"or only availability when it's in prime free-time for folks, that turns them off as you being a prime option."

This alone won't make one's dating situation lack altogether, but for guys who like to and do go out to hit the town on weekend nights, they may not want to sacrifice a fun Saturday night out on the town for a 1st date with Sally who's cute and all, but not out of his league or anything nor revealing signs that naughtiness would be sooner rather than later.

I rarely get to the point to cancel dates for Fri or Sat nights, but interest fizzles if the gal can ONLY go out on Fri or Sat night when most my Fri/Sat nights are set to be Enjoyable. With Sally who's not out of my league nor seemingly having a naughty side to her -- I'd rather have a quaint date set up during the week or Saturday afternoon. I haven't met this girl yet -- she's cute and all, worthy of going out on a date with -- but to me, it has to be a Great Catch hardly found for a Fri/Sat night date. That's my point.

I've analyzed it (at least in my situations) as this: I am out of his league and not the other way around.

I Strongly disagree with this. Yeah, given enough dating situations, one may run into this once in a great while. Or if you're WAY WAY out of his league that's too intimidating, it won't be so uncommon. But other than that, no. I'm not trying to be negative on you at all, I'm just being honest about it -- it's in the opposite direction if anything. I think a strong personality may turn a guy off, and one could say he's intimidated by that (but will be more willing If she is a real looker).

The motif of online dating in reference to guys not landing dates isn't "I get too scared to go out on dates with girls who are a great catch looks-wise." Not at all. :)
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 62
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/24/2016 2:42:59 PM
Wow! I had no idea!

So you're saying there are some girls that are iffy (or most ladies for you) so you're not sure if you want to waste a precious weekend night with?

I had no clue that men thought like that.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 63
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Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/24/2016 3:36:08 PM

So you're saying there are some girls that are iffy (or most ladies for you) so you're not sure if you want to waste a precious weekend night with?

They don't have to be iffy, though. Again, I haven't met them yet. On Fri/Sat night I'm set to meet girls, too. If a guy's active on Fri & Sat nights hitting the town, where he's going to have a lot of fun AND meet girls -- he's Definitely Rather going to have a date with a gal he hasn't met before not on those select nights. It'd be much like canceling plans. Sure, you'll do it for a great catch. But, say, the gal has kids & can ONLY go out on Fri/Sat night -- there's going to be a Lack of interest in meeting her on your Booked Fri/Sat nights, if she's not seemingly a Great catch (but still solidly worthy of a first-meet-date in general).

I had no clue that men thought like that.

I think we (and women who are in the same position) haven't really thought of it, even though that's how it flows, to Some degree. I've talked to girls who were real cuties, but they'd be tied up for Fri/Sat nights. Those are ideal for me when they Are a great catch, because a better lengthier date where drinking and unwinding is had can lead to a more fruitful experience between you two. Many times those girls are very socially active nightlife gals having fun, and I'd only be an option on those nights if their weekend night was to be low-key (thus no 'plans-that-arent-really-plans' to cancel). They'd be willing to meet up during the week. Again, they haven't met me yet, and I'm not some Wow catch compared to them. Makes sense, right?
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 64
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/24/2016 3:59:15 PM



hemingway234

3) Look for guys who offer to pick you up from your home after you have met them. If you would feel more comfortable meeting them a second time rather than having them pick you up, that's fine, negotiate - but look for them to offer to pick you up.


A gentlemanly thing to do but, I don't think it is a good idea to offer to pick her up at her home before having gone out on a few dates first. A smart woman would definitely not accept the offer and, IMO, it comes across as being unreasonable given the obvious fact that the woman does not really know him. A woman should be cautious when dealing with anyone she doesn't know.




norwegianguy456

if you say some things about yourself, like "I like to be friends first," or "I don't sleep with a guy on the first date," that can turn them off -- even when they weren't banking on literally having sex with you on the 1st date (but a gal saying that cries out 'hoops' to jump thru in general)



A woman who makes it explicitly clear that she wants to get to know the man before being intimate with him is making the guy jump through hoops ? ... maybe gyms should add hoops to their equipment... for guys to get good at it, just in case "the one" would like to see her suitor's hoop-jumping abilities.




c) A date wasn't Really set in stone, but to you it was; to him it wasn't set in stone


Unless she is dating Moses, I don't think there is much chance of the date being set in stone. Past the biblical times, usually when two people agree on a date and time then they are supposed to show up as previously agreed upon.





Only being able to see a social guy for the 1st time on a Fri or Sat night isn't always the best.


Amazingly, "some" people have a life to take care of, such as a regular job among many other things. Fridays and Saturdays are usually the days that most "normal" people have available for other activities such as dating.




they may not want to sacrifice a fun Saturday night out on the town for a 1st date with Sally who's cute and all, but not out of his league or anything nor revealing signs that naughtiness would be sooner rather than later.


Sacrifice ?... sacrificial dating ? (I don't think even the Aztecs did that) ... are you saying that if the potential for a Friday or Saturday night stand isn't there then it is a "sacrifice" ?




Sure, you'll do it for a great catch.


How can it be established if she is a great catch without dating her ? ... or is the definition of "great catch" strictly based on her looks ?
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 65
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/24/2016 4:02:22 PM
Sorry, Mr. Norwegian....really doesn't make much sense to me. I suppose I am just different. When I was in my twenties...before marriage....I was never really asked out during the week. Getting together during the week would have been reserved for after I decided I liked someone.

Pretty much the same now. I haven't dated much since I have been single but those that I have....have always asked when I preferred. Although, I did meet someone from the forums during the week due to the fact the he would only be in my state for a couple of days. And I did let him know....I couldn't stay out late with it being a "school night" and all. And the first thing I did when we sat down at the table at the restaurant was text my children to let them everything was 'ight! Oh! And he paid....which was a good thing cause when I went to the restroom I realized I forgot my whole dang wallet when changing purses and rushing around...trying not to be late. I still was late, though. :/

Guess it is a good thing I don't date! Hahaha! :D
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 66
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Posted: 4/24/2016 4:50:08 PM

A woman who makes it explicitly clear that she wants to get to know the man before being intimate with him is making the guy jump through hoops ?

You're wording it differently. Out of the blue, before even meeting -- yes, you will find that on average, there will be more hoops to jump thru with her.

Unless she is dating Moses, I don't think there is much chance of the date being set in stone.

You know what I mean. Sometimes dates are set in pencil, and not in ink, so to speak. But to the other person, they'll think it's a solid booking, while to the other person, it's equivalent to "Yeah, Thursday probably will work," implied that it's not a date set on the calendar yet.

Amazingly, "some" people have a life to take care of, such as a regular job among many other things.

So they're completely booked 12PM - 12AM every single weekday? If they have kids, I can more or less see that. That's when two people's lifestyles/schedules are incompatible for dating. But many people do have 2-3 evenings off every weekday... or off enough where they could do something on Sunday where they aimed to do it on Thursday. Or vice versa.

Fridays and Saturdays are usually the days that most "normal" people have available for other activities such as dating.

I disagree (as stated above). Most normal people, when dating someone, are not ONLY going to see that person on Fri and Saturday NIGHTS. If so, that's shady in a relationship where Johnny can only see Sally on Fri & Sat nights. People who have been dating obviously have more open time down the line than just Fri/Sat nights-only. So no, most people do have other free time. Sundays, Saturday afternoons, weekdays after work, etc. And when we're talking about guys (her situation, being a girl), they're less likely to be a guy who has kids in full custody that take up a lot of that.

Sacrifice ?... sacrificial dating ?

No, sacrificing plans. Not a difficult or fuzzy concept to understand. :) Sacrificing plans for someone who's not seemingly (by pics, profile) a great catch.

are you saying that if the potential for a Friday or Saturday night stand isn't there then it is a "sacrifice" ?

I'm saying that if you're booked for Fri/Sat night, then you would be sacrificing (canceling) your 'plans' for a date if you were to book a date for that Fri/Sat night. Simple concept.

How can it be established if she is a great catch without dating her ?

It's a seemingly great catch. Sure, one could be Truly catfished (rare). Some first-meet-dates we line up, we get more excited about -- a 'great catch' (knock on wood). But you questioning things because you haven't even met her yet only solidifies my point: You're more likely NOT going to want to cancel plans on a Fri/Sat night for someone you haven't met before yet (unless seemingly a 'great catch'). My point is, is that one doesn't have to have True Set Plans if they're a social night-life person on the weekends and have lots of fruitful fun and are going to hang out with friends on that regular basis and meet females Anyway. But essentially, it's the same as canceling plans, because they're looking forward to it and planning on it.

really doesn't make much sense to me.

I can understand "I don't roll that way / doesn't jive well with me," but it should be easy to understand though. :)

Getting together during the week would have been reserved for after I decided I liked someone.

With internet dating first-meets, many times a during-the-week thing or Sunday afternoon is a good idea. Similar to "coffee shop dates" for first-meet... but just getting a drink at a bar, too. One's not sacrificing a Fri/Sat night with someone who they haven't met before. Some people don't have active social lives, so tying up a Fri/Sat night isn't much of a sacrifice. But my point is, to many guys who have active night-life social lives since they're single, and going to meet/mingle with gals IRL on Fri/Sat night -- it is. For a gal they haven't met before, unless seemingly a catch that stands out, they'd Prefer to have it Sat afternoon or during the week that doesn't cancel anything.
 wineaboutit
Joined: 2/18/2016
Msg: 67
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/25/2016 5:53:42 AM
The things you are describing seem to be a routine occurrence in online dating. The reality is there are both men and women who say they want to meet up and do not and say they want a relationship and do not. Some people just get a charge out of endlessly messaging to charge their egos. If I meet somebody and it does not work out for various reasons, I am not interested in being recycled. If somebody flakes on me, I am not interested. The reason they flaked does not matter one bit.

I do not think this is a trend so much as a case of many people not knowing what they want or saying what they think other people want to hear. That is why actions count more than words and endless messaging and texting is a waste of time. Why would I want to text back and forth with somebody I have not met or hardly know? You can create any impression you want until you meet. I want to exchange some messages and then set up a meeting.

I do not think what happened to you is something that men just indulge in. Women do it as well.
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 68
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/25/2016 8:42:14 AM



Out of the blue, before even meeting -- yes, you will find that on average, there will be more hoops to jump thru with her.


I don't think that a woman who makes it explicitly clear from the get go that she wants to get to know a guy reasonably well before being intimate with him is a sign that she will make the guy jump through more "hoops". On the contrary, I view that as a sign of wisdom (usually acquired the hard way... no pun intended)




You know what I mean. Sometimes dates are set in pencil, and not in ink, so to speak.


If I tell someone I am going to be at some place at a particular date and time then, that's the way it's going to be. If for whatever reason I cannot meet my commitment, I will inform everyone who is affected as promptly as possible and make arrangements to reschedule the event. That is what I _expect_ from anyone I deal with, date or otherwise.




while to the other person, it's equivalent to "Yeah, Thursday probably will work," implied that it's not a date set on the calendar yet.


Sounds like one of those "definite maybe" type of individuals. I have established not being compatible with those.




So they're completely booked 12PM - 12AM every single weekday?


No but, if they are like most people, they like to kick back and relax after a hard day's work and, the amount of time they have available on a weekday is usually limited which, in the case of a woman, doesn't allow much time to doll herself up for the guy she might be interested in.

That time constraint is equally applicable to a man. Personally, I like to shower and make myself all "pretty" too... LOL that takes some time. Fortunately, since I don't paint my toenails, I don't have long hair, I don't wear high heels, I don't have to select one of 50 or 100 dresses and matching purses and I don't shave my legs, it doesn't take me very long.




Most normal people, when dating someone, are not ONLY going to see that person on Fri and Saturday NIGHTS.


That statement is normally true only after they've gone out on a few dates and they've both decided that a relationship has a reasonable chance of developing. In that case, they start seeing each other in a more "casual" setting.




Sacrificing plans for someone who's not seemingly (by pics, profile) a great catch.


That doesn't sound like a date. It sounds a lot more like the first meet.




I'm saying that if you're booked for Fri/Sat night, then you would be sacrificing (canceling) your 'plans' for a date if you were to book a date for that Fri/Sat night. Simple concept.


If I cancelled other plans on a Friday or Saturday night to go out on a date, it's because I've already established that I'd rather spend that evening with her than doing whatever else I had originally planned. I don't see that as a sacrifice.




Some first-meet-dates we line up,


In my book there is a very significant difference between a first meet and a date. A first meet is to establish if there is mutual interest. If I go out on a date it's because I am, at least to some extent, interested. It is very unlikely I would ever setup a first meet on a Friday or Saturday night, not because I don't want to sacrifice anything but, simply because (to me) a first meet should be something casual simply meant to determine if there is mutual interest.

Whether first meet or date, if I told anyone (date or not) that I was going to meet them at a particular place at a given date and time then, that is what is going to happen whether it is written in stone, with pencil, invisible ink or any other way. When the actions don't match the words then, neither is of any value. Hardly the kind of behavior that is going to make the person, man or woman, interesting.





 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 69
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/25/2016 9:05:17 AM

..............if I told anyone (date or not) that I was going to meet them at a particular place at a given date and time then, that is what is going to happen whether it is written in stone, with pencil, invisible ink or any other way. When the actions don't match the words then, neither is of any value.


I would call this INTEGRITY. To some of us, if we say it, we mean it.

Somehow in my time spent in OLD, I met approx 150 men. I was never stood up, and only ditched once.
He wanted me to go home with him and I refused. He disappeared on me in the casino, LOL.

Now did they "ghost", or "flake" prior to setting a day/time and place to meet? Oh sure! Then they would circle back around, days/weeks/months later, hoping to pick up where they left me. Yah OK LOL!

My schedule is closed during the week. I work 10 hr shifts, 3;30 pm -2 am, so this nonsense about the weekend dating, sacrificial and all that, to me is..............Well I already said it, "nonsense".
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 70
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Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/25/2016 12:28:47 PM
A lengthy back and forth here between norwegianguy and KJ.


norwegianguy456
for guys who like to and do go out to hit the town on weekend nights, they may not want to sacrifice a fun Saturday night out on the town for a 1st date with Sally who's cute and all, but not out of his league or anything nor revealing signs that naughtiness would be sooner rather than later.


kj521
Wow! I had no idea!

So you're saying there are some girls that are iffy (or most ladies for you) so you're not sure if you want to waste a precious weekend night with?

I had no clue that men thought like that.

Yes, KJ, many men do think like that. Certainly I do. But here’s the thing, and why you have never seen such behavior. You, kj521, are a “hottie”. Any man on these forums would give up a fun Saturday night with his friends for the mere chance to be in your company. Anytime, anywhere, anyhow.

It’s the average women, the ones that you can get a date with anytime, that fall under this rule: “Go out and have fun on Saturday night, have an intial meet / date with this fairly average looking woman on a weeknight or a Sunday afternoon.”
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 71
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/25/2016 4:09:10 PM
"It’s the average women, the ones that you can get a date with anytime, that fall under this rule: “Go out and have fun on Saturday night, have an intial meet / date with this fairly average looking woman on a weeknight or a Sunday afternoon.”


Mr. Ohenry?

Gosh! Can I say....while I appreciate that sweet compliment you gave me....I find the above statement sad. I suppose I just don't see people the same way. If I agree to go out with someone...I don't cateragorize them as a Wednesday night or Saturday night person based on their looks. Everybody to me is a Saturday night. I truly don't understand why people are so fixated on looks. The whole halo effect is truly disheartening to me and is partially responsible for me hiding my profile.

Everybody wants to be seen for who they are on the inside....just sayin'. :)
 LetitiaLeGrande
Joined: 3/22/2015
Msg: 72
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Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/25/2016 4:34:26 PM
You know the old saying " I chased him until he caught me." I would never pursue a man, that is his job and call me old fashioned but initiating contact I don't think works for a lot of women. I may be wrong.

Most men will rate your looks and value you that way. What is "average" to some is attractive to others though. I take issue with the male inference that an "average" gal will date just about anyone who asks her, not true.
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 73
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/25/2016 4:42:04 PM


Everybody to me is a Saturday night.


That's a deal breaker!... you are a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, morning, afternoon and evening woman to a man. Only Saturday nights won't cut it ;-) ... and if you bake cookies then we need to add a few days to the week... I need the extra time to imagine the smell and taste of your tasty morsels ;-)
 LetitiaLeGrande
Joined: 3/22/2015
Msg: 74
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Posted: 4/25/2016 4:47:15 PM
women date men not as attractive looking as they, all the time. We tend to look beyond the physical more and see other qualities that we value for long term. Rarely does a good looking man date a woman who is plain or whatever you want to call it. Money in the mix skews all this sometimes.

As for leagues, some guys think they are 8-9 when in truth more like 5-6 and some attractive women who are 8-9 think they are 5-6. . One man will rate a woman a 10 whereas his friend will say 8. So all this "in my league" stuff is moot.

 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 75
Dating Trend? Ladies please step forward!
Posted: 4/25/2016 5:18:43 PM
Let me help you out with that fantasy, Mr. Flman.....

I don't bake. ;)


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