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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinf      Home login  
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 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 26
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcingPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)


This is very interesting OP...you've had this experience before? What is the pattern here....for you? Are you a rescuer? someone used to self-sacrifice? Someone who believes that if you 'help' someone then at some point they will be there for you when you need it?

I think some self reflection about why you have this pattern....no matter how noble...is worth looking at.


This is good stuff.

I can personally attest to feeling bad when a woman shares her sorrows with me.

I feel compelled to help.

The Damsel in Distress can be a very attractive lure to a kind and compassionate man.

Bottom line?

If I don't bring sorrows and grief to the table, then neither should she.

YMMV
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 27
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/28/2016 9:01:26 PM
Scamp in VT- "Having exited being in a recognizable rescuer mode in the early stages of recent relationships, I still have wound up with people who had very well-camouflaged 'rescue-ee stuff going on."
We seem to have something in common, VT, we give people the benefit of the doubt.
I have come a LONG way in examining how and why My marriage went the way that it did.
I realized a lot of things, but relevant here, is that I thought if I did what he wanted, what would please him, things would get better.
He IS a narcissist, but not everyone is.
I also STILL attract people who aren't good for me, that is because they see that I am understanding and that makes them THINK that I will put up with ongoing behavior that is clearly NOT healthy.
The difference from the past and now is that I have FINALLY established boundaries.
I will keep attracting these types because of my heart, something I don't want to change, but I don't keep trying to "fix" because I know better now.
It's ok to be understanding and kind, but it's ALSO ok to recognize when something isn't going to work.
Knowing the difference is how I've avoided getting trapped, AGAIN.
I'm not going to suggest you dump her, but I stand by my advice that you call her out and have her go for counseling.
You can't make her go, you can't MAKE her change, but if she doesn't, you HAVE to let go of making it YOUR issue.
Like I said, you have already done enough, what happens next, once you have the talk, is up to HER.
(well, you too, you know you can't keep doing this, I hope)
 Scaretale
Joined: 1/9/2016
Msg: 28
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Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/28/2016 9:12:44 PM
I have not read all the advice, but here's mine:

I married a jealous girl. I thought it would go away.

It was the biggest mistake ever. Issues pre-marriage only amplify 1000x after marriage.

You can't fix broken. Only a therapist can.

You already taught her that you'll put up with he BS. She won't stop. Ever.
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 29
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/28/2016 9:15:51 PM
More evidence that a rocky courtship is never a good sign :(
 Scamp_in_VT
Joined: 8/8/2011
Msg: 30
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/28/2016 9:17:01 PM

The Damsel in Distress can be a very attractive lure to a kind and compassionate man.


Yep, been there, done that, have the divorce (12 years ago after 7 yrs of marriage)and financial dents to show for it after I realized that [ex wife] was invested in always finding ways to stay in distress. Even went to other versions of the same gallant dysfunctional voyage in several post-divorce relationships. I have, however, purged myself very fully of the desire or even willingness to rescue damsels. Been in situations in recent years where in early dating as soon as I saw that someone had a baggage car, I was outta there with all the speed I could muster without being utterly harsh.

In my current relationship, the woman I am with, when I met her, looked the furthest thing from a damsel in distress than anyone I have ever been with, or had ever hoped to be with - or many people you run acrosss- good job, lots of good friends, positive family connections and dynamics, a great outlook on life, healthy and high but still realistic aims of what she wanted to find in and wanted to bring to a relationship- the sorrows were, then (when I met her and for the first month or two of the relationship) at most, a little funky seemingly inconsequential [compared to all the positive things] glimmer around a fairly small portion of the fringe of the picture...

I have definitely learned that although it must suck to not be able to trust your partner (thankfully I haven't run into that to the degree that many have), it sucks no less, just differently, when your partner is recurrently on the opposite of solid ground in their ability to trust you.
 Scamp_in_VT
Joined: 8/8/2011
Msg: 31
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/28/2016 9:28:41 PM
I guess some of what I am looking for is how to spot significant degrees of 'seriously broken' more reliably and sooner. I am of the belief that _everyone_ has at least some issues and that frequently the people who seem most free of issues are merely engaged in some sort of rat race of overcompensation or self-delusion (and a great acting performance) to carry off the show to seem like they are free of issues. Given my perspective on that, and that I believe that understanding and empathy need to be a two way street... I don't want to be "Mr Zero Tolerance." I guess that I am in some ways coming to some aspect of my own answers in thinking, writing, and taking in all of your perspectives, that when something dysfunctional has the power to really take center stage in a way that throws everything else off kilter- maybe not for long, but powerfully, and if it keeps cropping up, it's time to realize that maybe the sideshow isn't just a sideshow, it's part of the main show.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 32
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/28/2016 9:40:06 PM
Scamp in VT- BAM! You've got it!
Now that you know, stay in that place.
It's WAAAAY better than "fixing."
One of my pet peeves, forum wise, is when people ask for advice and ignore it, or worse, attack people who give the advice that THEY asked for.
Give yourself credit.
As you said, we ALL have issues, we just have to decide which we can deal with and those we can't.
You took everyone's adivce. Things can only get better now, or least resolved, and that matters, a LOT.
 hemingway234
Joined: 6/6/2015
Msg: 33
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/29/2016 4:46:13 AM


- the sorrows were, then (when I met her and for the first month or two of the relationship) at most, a little funky seemingly inconsequential [compared to all the positive things] glimmer around a fairly small portion of the fringe of the picture...


- That was your warning sign. It's often subtle.

If you find a really good catch, there will be zero red flags in the first couple of months. That's why they call them Mr. or Mrs. Right. Everything is perfect (in the beginning, at least).

In dating, to find a good catch, you have to go with your intuition/gut/radar. Your head and your heart are liers. As soon as you start to rationalize behavior, you are off the tracks.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 34
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/29/2016 5:09:12 AM
yeah, that ^^^

no matter how late into the relationship it gets, I still stand by what I posted...they can be nice as pie, but when the relationship starts requiring you to walk on eggshells, you aren't a good match. its time to go.
 LiliMarleen
Joined: 5/24/2009
Msg: 35
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Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/29/2016 5:27:04 AM
. . . and because you are recognizing that you have (it's not had because you are doing it again with this one), it wouldn't hurt if you went and got some therapy yourself to get more clarity of your own boundaries, why you keep picking these people, and why you are staying so long when the real deal reveals itself.

You're alluding to patterns long in the past where this dynamic was created for you, and without knowing what they actually are, I can also not recommend Alanon highly enough for somebody with this pattern. It's an incredible program, free, and yields amazing results for very, very little investment. I've found that just one Alanon meeting a week leads to the program sort of seeping into you almost unnoticed and you're starting to make slow, steady progress, until you're entire attitude and outlook on life has changed.

Good luck, OP.
 flaneur001
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 36
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Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/29/2016 10:13:29 AM
OP
guess some of what I am looking for is how to spot significant degrees of 'seriously broken' more reliably and sooner.


Of course, as you have discovered in some of your post divorce relationships, it is obvious to spot 'the seriously broken'. Your question, of how to spot the seriously broken more reliably and sooner is moot. People's neurosis become revealed as time unfolds. The issue is not how to PREVENT it from happening by spotting it early....the issue is how you handle it when this side of reality unfolds.

I am now questioning what you mean by having patience and empathy with your current partner? I'm wondering if it means that when she has one of her 'moment's, you try to be understanding, hold back your true feelings, and try to comfort and reassure her. Is this what you do? If this is the case....then here lies the problem.
 LiliMarleen
Joined: 5/24/2009
Msg: 37
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Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/29/2016 10:23:00 AM
I completely agree.

You always learn new things as a relationship unfolds. There is no way of knowing things before they appear. What you have to learn is to remain flexible enough to deal with new things as they appear.

If a new issue pops up, you have to have the communication skills to address them with your partner and find some kind of solution. If this is not possible, you have to decide whether you can stay or have to leave.

There's no substitute for this process. You can never know today what the future will hold. There are no magic ways of recognizing dysfunction until it becomes apparent.

You have to trust yourself and your own boundaries that you'll deal with whatever comes up when it comes up, and that's when you'll see whether your relationship is sustainable because in a healthy relationship, these issues can be addressed.
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 38
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/29/2016 4:31:26 PM

Every single guy I've been with has cheated on me sooner or later. Absolutely no exception whatsoever. And I see the same in my circle of friends - so many long time marriages end due to cheating (the man in 99% of the cases). I see it at work with patients - nobody seems to stay together anymore, divorce is so common.


I am almost speechless.


Messed up, yes, but it's the truth.

Not for everyone. Not, by a long shot. Not, at all.

OP, I highly recommend counseling and/or attending a support group. The ONLY person you can change, is YOU.
During the process of self discovery, self improvement, as we change, the way we think and act, if we trust ourselves, it opens the door for the other person to either change/adjust their behavior, become trusting, ................or.............not.

What we think/do, is our responsibility. What she /(or he) does is their responsibility.

I trust me, I trust him.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 39
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Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/29/2016 6:19:46 PM

I guess some of what I am looking for is how to spot significant degrees of 'seriously broken' more reliably and sooner. I am of the belief that _everyone_ has at least some issues and that frequently the people who seem most free of issues are merely engaged in some sort of rat race of overcompensation or self-delusion (and a great acting performance) to carry off the show to seem like they are free of issues.


This is some seriously flawed thinking, why would someone broken present as issue free, when in fact they wouldn't even know how? It's your view, not their acting, and shows that you need to stop trying to fix this women and seek professional help of your own, and do the serious work it takes. And therapists can be just as broken, often very broken people think being a therapist is the answer for them, because they are sure they know all about psychology.

Sure maybe you can be fooled once, but a stable person would not be stumped about finding someone is broken, they would move on, not try to fix someone and certainly not try to have a relationship with them, no, people attract like, and if you've been involved with more than one broken person, you must know you are attached to them for a reason. Some times it takes a good hard mental slap in the face to realize where the problem really is and then get up and get help for it.
 Scamp_in_VT
Joined: 8/8/2011
Msg: 40
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/30/2016 3:17:09 PM
Lots of interesting points that people have raised, which I appreciate.

Therapy, yes, been working for a long time with an excellent therapist who has helped me immensely at growing and changing over the years.

Alanon- been to some meetings locally, it's one of those things that is luck of the draw with the 'culture' of a given meeting, and the local one is way to afflicted with a prevailing dense blanket of people coming from 'woe is me.... 12 step, of other forms, however, I am familiar with... and have found it immensely helpful.

'What do I get out of it....?' well, it's pretty easy to tell that some of my past tendencies come from losing one parent when I was young and having the other parent afflicted with types and levels of anxiety that today would be called PTSD; I was deeply trained to watch for distress in others and make sure I tried to avoid anything that triggered it, and to quell it if it arose. My excellent therapist has helped me break free from having those tendencies run me on autopilot, and in fact that therapist said that it's not all bad, in that I tend to pay attention to and care about others feelings.... to degrees and depths that are, apparently, fairly unusual in my gender. That said, what I do run into is that when I sense distress in a person I am close to and care about, I will try to do what I can to be understanding, to the point of risking putting my needs to the back burner... not to the extremes like I used to, but it still can happen, most especially if the distress comes up suddenly out of the blue. And when someone is prone to a certain type of distress but identifies it in themselves and says that they want to change, I am willing to work with that. My own path and experiences have led me to believe that remarkable change and growth is possible when people want it and work at it. But what happens is that if they're not capable of moving beyond the recurring distress, I find myself [like in the current relationship] where things that I could handle if they were short term and subject to improvement become intolerable when it starts to be clear that change isn't happening... but because there isn't a bright line of "well that seemed hopeful, but as of 2:30 today it is unmistakably hopeless" the intolerability sneaks up on me.

I have 'drawn some boundaries' lately and things seem to be going better. I need to manage to not become a zero tolerance a__h___ while still sticking to my guns and seeing whether it really can get to a healthier place, _definitely_ not exercising any patience when I get handed a bag of misgivings that came from someone else, and see where it goes (and I am at little risk of prolonging this too long if this doesn't start to shift for real).

Now the curious thing is, when not dealing with those I am emotionally close to, I can deal resiliently with crap-tons of conflict, which has been the case in a lot of what I have done for work over the years, and I couldn't give a hill of beans whether I am liked. It's when someone I am really close to turns on me [or turns their ability to be present with me] 'on a dime' and it wasn't foreseeable, that I am at risk of losing my bearings.
 Seki1949
Joined: 9/4/2013
Msg: 41
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Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/30/2016 4:17:27 PM

so many long time marriages end due to cheating (the man in 99% of the cases).


Apparently all these cheating men are cheating with each other.
 Seki1949
Joined: 9/4/2013
Msg: 42
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 lilydreams
Joined: 3/4/2016
Msg: 43
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/30/2016 5:04:39 PM

Every single guy I've been with has cheated on me sooner or later. Absolutely no exception whatsoever. And I see the same in my circle of friends - so many long time marriages end due to cheating (the man in 99% of the cases). I see it at work with patients - nobody seems to stay together anymore, divorce is so common.


Ladyinred said - "I am almost speechless."

I said once before that every once in awhile a poster will come up with something and I just go "well, that's very telling" or " there it is, explains it all".

I know Karma is gone and this is not directed totally at her as she is not the only one that dates like SHE dates, a few females and a few males do the same. They will continue to do this until they fix THEMSELVES. She will date any cute 28 year old or handsome 40 year old for all the wrong reasons and whine about the same outcome because she hasn't dealt with her shit. Unless she deals with this trust thing, she will be in bed with Mr. Wonderful and be waiting for the shoe to drop because doom and gloom follow those that don't do the work. I've seen a few posters on here do the same. Get rid of the bad thoughts, the "they all cheat" on me, figure out why they cheat on you, what are you doing wrong, what are you contributing to the failed attempts at happiness. The past will always cloud their future if they don't clear the air...your air.

And I tolally disagree about nobody staying together, they all divorce. I know couples in their 50s that have been together since high school. I have been to many 25th and 30th anniversaries. My brother and his wife just celebrated 40 years. The majority of my friends and family are on their 1st marriage. So no, it's not "common ".
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 44
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 4/30/2016 10:47:17 PM
Lilydreams- With Karma gone and not able to defend herself, this is dirty.
Neither of us knows her situation well enough to say it's her fault she got cheated on.
It's NOT true that people only cheat in unhappy relationships.
It's true SOME of the time, but not all of the time.
You take Karma to task and then turn around and point out long relationships you know that cheating did NOT occur.
That might not be because of the happiness in the relationship (although it COULD be), it could be because both parties have self control.
There may be a theme with Karma, but I wonder WHY she bothers you so much?!
I know I might get attacked for this, or the very least, you will deny it, but maybe you envy her?!
I see something personal with you when it comes to her and it isn't pretty.
I can't respect someone who waits until someone isn't here to attack them, like I said, that's dirty play.
 lilydreams
Joined: 3/4/2016
Msg: 45
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 5/1/2016 6:43:34 AM
First of all Bama, go read my second sentence in that post starting with "I said once before....." This is the gist of my thoughts on my post.


I know Karma is gone and this is not directed totally at her as she is not the only one that dates like SHE dates, a few females and a few males do the same. They will continue to do this until they fix THEMSELVES. She will date any cute 28 year old or handsome 40 year old for all the wrong reasons and whine about the same outcome because she hasn't dealt with her shit. Unless she deals with this trust thing, she will be in bed with Mr. Wonderful and be waiting for the shoe to drop because doom and gloom follow those that don't do the work. I've seen a few posters on here do the same. Get rid of the bad thoughts, the "they all cheat" on me, figure out why they cheat on you, what are you doing wrong, what are you contributing to the failed attempts at happiness. The past will always cloud their future if they don't clear the air...your air.


Bama, re-read the first two sentences. And do you not agree with the basic premise that they (because I mentioned a few males and a few females date the same) will continue on is trip of date/dump/date/dump until they fix what is going around in their head.....in this particular case "all will cheat on me because all have cheated on me".

And her other comment I mentioned "nobody seems to stay together anymore, divorce is so common" is just wrong. Many marriages stay together, probably most stay together. So Bama, I didn't take her to task on that comment. SHE mentioned all men have cheated on her and SHE mentioned no one staying married.

OMG, "envy". No. I will say the same thing to you as when that other entitled one Eternity used to say I was jealous and envious of how beautiful she was - the only thing I'm envious about Karma is is her age...I'd love to do my 40s again. But envious, nope, I was never that arrogant or dumb. You can have a pretty package but if the inside is festering....no thanks. Otherwise, are you kidding me. I find it disgusting that she would consider dating someone under 30. I have absolutely no respect for her on how she feels men should pay her way (same fight as wih Eternity. Entitled.

I lost all respect for her after she posted about the new ED guy in the Sex threads.....so I guess we are tied in the loss of respect department.
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 46
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 5/1/2016 6:52:18 AM
I don't read the sex threads, not sure how many do here.. but I agree with Bama. Karma isn't here, why air her stuff?
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 47
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 5/1/2016 6:57:36 AM
In all fairness....Ms. Karma aired he own stuff.
And Ms. Lilly appears to be posting in reference to her post #4 in this thread.



VVVV Sorry I didn't read that far into this thread....my bad. :D
 lilydreams
Joined: 3/4/2016
Msg: 48
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 5/1/2016 7:05:37 AM
Actually I was responding to post 4 AND post 38.

And please, everything we all say stays here forever. And I'm far from being a prude, but I can't believe what some "air" on here. Karma posted about her latest guy in the Sex threads about ED the other day and I said "TMI" about him and their issues and got told by her to piss off, she could say what she wants. Whatevaah.
 Whisky_River
Joined: 12/2/2015
Msg: 49
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 5/1/2016 7:26:26 AM
Well...Like Ouija, I don't read the "sex and dating" threads often but Lily made sure to tell everyone on another thread.. what was going on with Karma....so, to bring attention to it..imagine that!
I agree, with Bama...you have a spiteful attitude and theres something about Karma....you just can't let go.

As for airing things on here....A few wouldn't like their Stuff thrown up in their face...constantly...would they.??
Let it go!
State your opinion and move on...when you don't like someone....you stalk and keep harping.
Like I am doing now to you....lol.
 BlondeApriLShowers
Joined: 4/28/2016
Msg: 50
Trust issues- and when does patience & empathy become enabling/ reinforcing
Posted: 5/2/2016 8:23:30 AM
Unless there is a massive dosing of "sodium pentothal" no one will ever really know who is thinking what or even who is who.

Why beat a dead horse anyway...
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