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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > 20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack      Home login  
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 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 301
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49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attackPage 13 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)
“This over analyzing is just a deflection from the real issue, which is how could a person who plans on mass murder buy an assault rifle and any other guns as easily as buying a chocolate bar?”

There are more than 300 million firearms currently in circulation in the United States. That’s a Pandora’s box that cannot be closed. Which is not to say I disagree with common sense gun control, but there is no law that can keep someone hell-bent on shooting up a lot of people from getting a gun that’ll do the job with that many lying around.

Probably the most classic example of what I’m talking about is the previously mentioned James Huberty, who told his wife and several others he had mental problems, even called a mental health clinic seeking help but for various reasons heard nothing from it, then told his wife he was “going hunting humans” before mowing 21 people down at the San Ysidro McDonald's in 1984. All those people would be alive today if those BLATANT warning signs had been acted on. Mateen’s warning signs weren’t quite as overt, but they were there, and they were ignored or swept under the carpet.

SweetD: Though I do not agree about not bothering to understand the psychological makeup of mass murderers, I do agree that it sounded like this particular night club might have made the situation a lot worse with the lack of easily accessible rear emergency exits, because the witness testimony sounded like they were all trapped between the gunman and freedom. Thinking about the clubs I regularly go to, I have no idea how I would get out of any of them other than the way I came in, particularly if I had to try to find the supposed emergency exits in the dark. I spend a lot of time at movie theaters and those exits are much more obvious, even though they are also in the dark (of course, Holmes entered the theater from the emergency exit, so...)

Dee: So your suggestion for the mass murderer problem (other than if they’re Muslims) is to just not even try to stop them from happening? Just wait for these attacks to happen then clean up the innocent blood? Oddly, that sounds like what you're accusing the non-anti-Muslim crowd of. But I guess it's perfectly all right to have this strategy in the cases of non-Muslim mass murderers.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 302
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/23/2016 4:03:35 PM
Who said any of that?

And why do we need anymore "why" than what he stated several times in several different ways?

How much od this is ectually about guns? The brothers in Boston didn't use guns.

"Never waste a crisis," I guess.
 aj17225
Joined: 1/20/2016
Msg: 303
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/23/2016 8:14:28 PM
No more buying kitchen knives, no more buying pressure cookers, no more buying anything that could hurt someone. I have no problem with some gun control but come on, we have people in here sounding just like Obama.....don;t say the word radical islamic terrorist, don't let Americans here the WHOLE 911 call(well, huge pushback took care of that little BS). A reporter asked who was it that put the words that were redacted back into the whole 911 call and she refused to answer, just like Obama. The talking points have been the same throughout and he thinks America is that stupid not knowing what was redacted in the first place?? And the sit in by the Dems, what a croc, it was a political stunt and they were out soliciting money at the same time. Paul Ryan nailed it today in describing the democrats. About time!
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 304
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/23/2016 8:33:03 PM
Why not believe him?

“Only the Guilty Would Confess to Crimes” : Understanding the ...
www.thejuryexpert.com/.../only-the-guilty-would-confess-to-crimes
-un...
by DL Keene - ‎Cited by 1 - ‎Related articles
Nov 28, 2012 - Yet, in North America we can trace false confessions back to at least 1692 ... More than 300 years later, people continue to falsely confess to crimes .... What an innocent (and many guilty) interrogation subject wants to do is to ...
 FullMoonGuy
Joined: 3/7/2014
Msg: 305
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/23/2016 8:45:57 PM

How much od this is ectually about guns? The brothers in Boston didn't use guns.


Neither did the 9/11 hijackers.

They used boxcutters. And then planes.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 306
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/24/2016 6:02:54 AM

The brothers in Boston didn't use guns.


I hate to have to educate those that are wilfully ignorant, but this is an incorrect statement:


Three days after the deadly 2013 Boston Marathon explosions, investigators say bombing suspects Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev used a Ruger 9mm semi-automatic handgun to murder MIT police officer Sean Collier, carjack a young businessman, and hours later to fire on police in a vicious gunfight.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/boston-marathon-bombing-tale-gun/story?id=29898790


Neither did the 9/11 hijackers.

They used boxcutters.


And now the right to bring boxcutters on an airplane has been removed.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 307
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49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/24/2016 6:32:22 AM
“Who said any of that?”

You did, and then you just repeated it in your response: you don’t care about mass murderers’ motives unless they happen to be Muslim:

“Actually, he was my cousin's lover and couldn't accept that she was too old to have kids. Lost his mind. Oh, and the straight bartender was having an affair with his ex wife, who he still loved, and he couldn't handle it. Oh, oh and he applied for a job there and they not only didn't hire him but were rude so he went on a rampage. Wait, wait. He found out that the man his current wife was having an affair with( or is it a woman?) is a regular at that club and he went there to kill one person but got carried away.”

It’s actually pretty easy to see the difference. Christopher Harper-Mercer, a "hate-filled" man with antireligious and white supremacist leanings and long-term mental health issues, shoots 9 in Oregon on Oct. 1 – where’s the discussion? Dylann Roof, a “hate-filled” man influenced by Fox News and white supremacist leanings, shoots 9 blacks in South Carolina last June 17 – what’d you have to say about that? Why are you passionate about Omar Mateen and Syed Farook but glossed right over those that happened in the same year’s time?

For most conservatives, Mateen and Farook fit their political agenda so they shout to the heavens about them but Harper-Mercer and Roof run counter to their political agenda so they tried to ignore them (Roof made that difficult by surviving). Where’s the discussion about the race war these 100% American non-Muslim guys wanted to start? What, you don’t care because they’re just a couple of mentally ill guys with guns? But Mateen declares he’s part of a religious war so he can’t be a mentally ill guy with a gun? So a handful of conservatives try to start "racial healing" after Roof by taking down the Rebel flag but conservatives want a Muslim ban after Mateen?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 308
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/24/2016 4:06:13 PM
I find it ironic that conservatives wish to protect the second amendment rights of suspected terrorists while at the same time calling for enhanced surveillance of the Muslim community.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 309
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/24/2016 6:05:27 PM
Again, who said that?

No matter how many times you insist that I said something that I didn't, I still did not. But, go ahead. I guess that false statement is the only response that you have.

Anyway . . .

Irish says himself "Three days later. . ."

I'll just leave it to resound.

And I see and hear no one of any persuasion say let suspected terrorists legally buy guns. Really.

Tge real reason for hesitation: I can tell you, never let a left leaner define terrorist. You could just be traditional minded, a church goer or not PC and they may put you on that list, based on what is written here.

Amazing the contortions on this thread.



 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 310
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/24/2016 6:53:57 PM

Neither did the 9/11 hijackers.
They used boxcutters.
----------------------
And now the right to bring boxcutters on an airplane has been removed.


I'm surprised the NRA hasn't fought to lift the ban on passengers carrying firearms on flights, since they are always proposing that the only to fight terrorism or any other violent act is by having more people carry guns.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 311
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 2:27:59 AM

And I see and hear no one of any persuasion say let suspected terrorists legally buy guns. Really.


You must have been cloistered away in seclusion this past week and missed the Democratic sit-in at the House of Representatives. Let me recap the reason for the sit-in. House republicans wish to protect the second amendment rights of suspected terrorists on the N0-Fly list and refuse to vote on a Democratic bill to restrict the gun purchasing rights of those on the No-Fly list.


Again, who said that?

No matter how many times you insist that I said something that I didn't, I still did not. But, go ahead. I guess that false statement is the only response that you have.

Anyway . . .

Irish says himself "Three days later. . ."

I'll just leave it to resound.


Can anyone translate "Word Salad?"
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 312
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 3:25:25 AM
"missed the Democratic sit-in at the House of Representatives. "


OMG! Is that what that was?

I saw pictures and figured it was either acid flashbacks or dementia given their age! Maybe even a new commercial for Life Alert or something? Hahaha!

Thanks Irish! Don't I feel silly now! :D
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 313
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 5:50:36 AM
It was a nice way of saying that Irish proved himself wrong in the first three words of his response.
I forget my audience sometimes.. . .

Anyway . . .

Not everyone on the no fly list is a suspected terrorist. Wasn't Kennedy or someone like him on it?

Anyway . . .

 60Sunnysideup
Joined: 6/15/2016
Msg: 314
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 6:30:25 AM
IMO, if a person has been added to the "no fly list", chances are theybarentherenfornanvery valid reason. I'm pretty sure they aren't on the list for using scissors dangerously in a sewing class. So if they have been deemed a risk to fly, why let them have a gun. You know, there are a multitude of reason why a person can't get a drivers license, vision, just had a heart attack, mentally incapable, etc., but they can get a gun.

And Dee, the definition of a terrorist in my leftist mind is anyone that grabs a weapon and slaughters people and that includes blond home growns that walk into places like Sandy Hook and Columbine, redhead ex home growns that walk into movie theaters, brown home grown might be gay/Muslim/crazy/angry , brown and fly planes into buildings and nice white home grown that loads a truck full of explosives and sets it off in front of a government building.

Righties think terrorist are radical Islamics and think that if SOME are bad, ALL are bad and we should get rid of them.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 315
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 7:42:57 AM
It's funny (but not for them) when a baby or toddler is not allowed to board a plane because their name is on the no-fly list. You have to watch out for those babies who could be planting explosive in their diapers or pulling out an assault rifle from their diaper bag.
 chinook1111
Joined: 4/1/2016
Msg: 316
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 10:32:09 AM
@maleman
Too many mohameds?

Obviously the FBI surveillance of people frequenting Islamic radical websites is not being taken very seriously.Too many people visiting these sites?Ban them.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 317
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 11:15:24 AM
the no-fly list might be about as useful as taking your shoes and socks off before boarding a plane. But who wants to be the one to shut it down, and get their name associated with "soft on terror"?
 BBEisBack
Joined: 9/16/2015
Msg: 318
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49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 1:01:25 PM
Gee Irish & others, not only do you hate the 2nd Amendment, but the 5th & 14th Amendments, too....


Look who was on the "No Fly List" for a year..... He should know better.....
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/no-fly-mistakes-cat-stevens-ted-kennedy-john-lewis/



John Lewis's long year
On the same day Kennedy revealed his flight troubles, civil rights icon and longtime Rep. John Lewis revealed he, too, had been snarled by the watchlist dragnet. According to his office, the Georgia Democrat had over the course of a year been held up 35 to 40 times. Despite reaching out to a number of federal agencies over that period, Lewis' name had remained on a list.





the no-fly list might be about as useful as taking your shoes and socks off before boarding a plane. But who wants to be the one to shut it down, and get their name associated with "soft on terror"?


Looks like the ACLU is willing to be 'That Guy'......

https://www.aclu.org/infographic/grounded-life-no-fly-list


That is the reality of the No Fly List, a secret government watch list being challenged by the ACLU and its affiliates in Oregon, Southern California, Northern California, and New Mexico. To help illustrate the unfairness and devastating human cost exacted by the No Fly List, we enlisted the talents of award-winning comic artist Jen Sorensen.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 319
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49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 3:17:37 PM

They(Democrats) have shown they are comfortable acting first and THEN considering the ramifications of their actions - if they ever do consider them.

Who was in charge when the Patriot Act of 2001 was put through less than a month after 9-11?
Isn't that how the no-fly list got started?!?

This is a societal issue that people are making into a political one, because getting elected is more important right now than any actual progress or change. People want their 'position' made loud and clear even more so than they care if something actually gets passed.

Sad to say, major tragedies seem to be the only way things happen quickly at the speed of government. Even killing 50 people in three hours may not be enough.

Careful consideration of legislation should always be considered. But saying 'No' doesn't automatically mean one has considered ANYthing carefully. Like I've said before - any moron can swing a sledge hammer to wreck things and tear them down - the skill is doing so without damaging anything needlessly, and being able to re-build just as efficiently. The same goes for not doing anything but complain. It's a waste of perfectly good hot air.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 320
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 3:23:13 PM
If an American citizen of middle east descent with a common middle eastern name gets stopped at the airport every time because that common name appears on the no-fly list, can the guy get his name legally changed to avoid being stopped at the airport and questioned? Can he change his name to John Smith or any other Anglo Saxon name to avoid any paranoia from Americans who fear middle eastern people?
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 321
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49 dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 4:07:04 PM
“Was it really a ‘handful of conservatives?’ I thought it was Democrats loading up the protest buses and pressuring the various states and localities to take down the flags and any other symbols that might offend the senses.”

Nikki Haley and Robert Bentley don’t exactly strike me as protest bus-types of people – they jumped on that issue before any real (new) protests got started. They did it despite the fact that a bunch of redneck supporters were protesting against what they were doing. I don’t care too much for Haley and I hate my home state’s governor’s guts as I do everything Alabama, but I have to give them credit for doing the right thing for once. Of course, they were both term-limited – if that had happened in their first terms, I wonder what they would have done.

“Radical Islam has tentacles far and wide. It is a major threat to western countries' peace and security as well as to that of Muslim countries. This is why it currently takes center stage as opposed to the other terrorist types you mention.”

As a matter of foreign policy, I certainly agree. As a matter of domestic policy, radical Islamic terror murders make up an extremely small percentage of killings in this country. I’m not saying we should stop devoting resources to either of them – I’m just saying radical Islamic terror murders get a highly disproportionate amount of attention from American conservative politicians, while they sweep all other violence under the carpet (except, of course, violence caused by blacks, whenever that suits them).

“No matter how many times you insist that I said something that I didn't, I still did not.”

I’m just going to ask you straight out: why aren’t you trying to prevent mass murders by non-Muslims? You want to stop radical Islamic terror mass murders by banning murders. What is your plan to stop mass murders by white non-Muslim Americans?

“I'm surprised the NRA hasn't fought to lift the ban on passengers carrying firearms on flights, since they are always proposing that the only to fight terrorism or any other violent act is by having more people carry guns.”

I would say that’s a good point, but then again they don’t allow people to care firearms to many of their events and the GOP won’t allow firearms at their convention!

“As has been mentioned, there are people on the No-Fly list who have committed no crime but share a name with someone who has and therefore suffer the consequences. Any plan should be scrutinized from all angles with a careful eye on Democrats trying to whittle away at the second amendment.”

I actually agree that the No-Fly list is too flawed to be used for handgun background checks, but for God’s sake, as I said previously, if someone is under investigation by the FBI or CIA for terrorist activities to the extent Mateen was, then why in the world wouldn’t somebody want to pass a law that at least makes it possible for such a person to be put under surveillance if he or she attempts to purchase an arsenal? And there’s obviously a list of people disallowed to own firearms, including quite a few who are not actual ex-convicts (such as those committed for psychiatric reasons). This list could be expanded to include terror suspects and if one of them attempts to purchase a firearm and is rejected, then he or she could go through due process to get his or her right to own a firearm back. I saw a ridiculous news story about a man who had his right to own firearms taken away because he was “acting homicidal and suicidal” with a firearm in a populated area and ended up being committed under Florida’s Baker Act (but not arrested or convicted of any crime). A year later he went before a judge and told him he was doing “much better now,” and the judge restored his right to own a firearm – actually gave him his firearms that were taken away from him during the incident back! If THAT guy can get due process, then what’s the big deal about terror suspects being treated similarly?
 BBEisBack
Joined: 9/16/2015
Msg: 322
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49 dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 4:58:17 PM

I’m just going to ask you straight out: why aren’t you trying to prevent mass murders by non-Muslims? You want to stop radical Islamic terror mass murders by banning murders. What is your plan to stop mass murders by white non-Muslim Americans?

I wouldn't call Mother-Jones a Right Wing Conservative group...
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/12/no-there-were-not-355-mass-shootings-this-year

No, There Has Not Been a Mass Shooting Every Day This Year
This inflated stat all over the media isn't just misleading—it's stirring undue fear.





but for God’s sake, as I said previously, if someone is under investigation by the FBI or CIA for terrorist activities to the extent Mateen was, then why in the world wouldn’t somebody want to pass a law that at least makes it possible for such a person to be put under surveillance if he or she attempts to purchase an arsenal? And there’s obviously a list of people disallowed to own firearms, including quite a few who are not actual ex-convicts (such as those committed for psychiatric reasons). This list could be expanded to include terror suspects and if one of them attempts to purchase a firearm and is rejected, then he or she could go through due process to get his or her right to own a firearm back.


Mateen was Cleared by the FBI.... It was a Mistake, but he was..... So, we're back to Due Process.....
Was there a Directive from those in Charge, to not look too closely at Muslims?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 323
49 dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 5:22:55 PM


I’m just going to ask you straight out: why aren’t you trying to prevent mass murders by non-Muslims? You want to stop radical Islamic terror mass murders by banning murders. What is your plan to stop mass murders by white non-Muslim Americans?


I wouldn't call Mother-Jones a Right Wing Conservative group...
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/12/no-there-were-not-355-mass-shootings-this-year


No, There Has Not Been a Mass Shooting Every Day This Year
This inflated stat all over the media isn't just misleading—it's stirring undue fear.

I'm not aware that the poster put ANY number to "mass murders by white non-muslims"... much less "355"...

In fact, I don't recall him doing any more than outlining a bare few of such incidents... certainly FAR fewer than are actually on record...

Are you suggesting that mass murders by white non-muslims don't happen...? That they don't happen in the US far more often than, well, any other group...?

Or are you just pulling the "355" out of your a$$ because you simply have no rational answer to the point made...?
 BBEisBack
Joined: 9/16/2015
Msg: 324
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History
49 dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 5:30:49 PM
Do we want to talk about how many of the people that do these Shocking Mass Shooting Events are Liberal/Progressive/Democrats? Or the ones that haven't declared their position on Politics, their Families are....
 aj17225
Joined: 1/20/2016
Msg: 325
49 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/25/2016 6:53:25 PM
"OMG! Is that what that was? "

^^^^^^^ I know Kj, really?. Paul Ryan had one of the best speeches I have ever heard him give in regards to the "sit in". He ripped the democrats and rightfully so. I like Ryan but it is about time he told it like it is, that the democrats were pandering for money while sitting in and making it political. They had nothing. Whoops, they did have something, they sang a cute song in the end. That was all they had, a cute song. Yikes!!
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