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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > 20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack      Home login  
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 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 51
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attackPage 3 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)

YOu are right, Maleman.
The NRA should focus on the real problem here, islam.
The more muslims that are allowed to live in the U.S., the more of these tragedies that will occur.
We have accepted it now. That's very sad too.

There are so many muslims here in the U.S., I'm not sure how this can be stopped.

Muslims have been waging war on western civilization/anything non-muslim for 1,300 years.
Things aren't all of a sudden just going to change since they are living in a western Christian nation.


This tragedy had nothing to do with a "religion" or did it???

Wasn't a kiss between two men witnessed by this shooter and his inability to "accept" what he saw what set this tragedy into motion?

Again, simple minded people coming up with generic simple minded solutions/reasons.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 52
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 8:27:23 AM
Such a horrible tragedy. My thoughts and prayers go out to all the families of the murdered and wounded.
 villabolos
Joined: 7/24/2015
Msg: 53
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 8:28:58 AM
islam and western civilization are not compatible.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 54
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 8:32:15 AM
If he were a Christian or Jew, would anyone question whether religion had anything to do with it? I wonder.
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 55
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 8:39:10 AM

This tragedy had nothing to do with a "religion" or did it???

Wasn't a kiss between two men witnessed by this shooter and his inability to "accept" what he saw what set this tragedy into motion?

Again, simple minded people coming up with generic simple minded solutions/reasons.


found this on twitter this morning from the LA Times:


How anti-gay Christians evangelize hate abroad:

. . .In recent years, millions of dollars have been funneled from anti-LGBTQ evangelical conservatives to Uganda, funding local pastors and training them to adopt and mirror the culture-war language of the U.S. Christian right. Bahati and a notorious anti-gay pastor, Martin Ssempa, were personally mentored by U.S. conservatives. And powerful Christian right organizations such as the Family Research Council lobbied Congress to change a resolution denouncing the Uganda legislation.

. . .And let's not forget Russia. In 2007, Lively traveled throughout Russia to, as he put it, bring a warning about the "homosexual political movement." He urged Russians, among other things, "to criminalize the public advocacy of homosexuality." Last year, President Vladimir Putin signed a bill into law that criminalizes distribution of "gay propaganda" to minors, including any material that "equates the social value of traditional and nontraditional sexual relations."

Later this year, the World Congress of Families — an Illinois-based conservative umbrella organization — will convene in Russia. As the group's leader, Larry Jenkins, put it: "We're convinced that Russia does and should play a very significant role in defense of the family and moral values worldwide. Russia has become a leader of promoting these values in the international arena."
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 56
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 8:55:06 AM

islam and western civilization are not compatible.


The shooter was an American born and bred citizen that did the shooting.

So, the question that could/should be posed, were did his beliefs/inability to accept a lifestyle different than his, come from?

Or are you, again, generically blaming his actions on something even you don't have clue about? As babblefish just pointed out, more than one religion in the good old US of A has wingnut "followers".
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 57
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 9:06:23 AM
What?...............
Who?................
When?.................
 ChaoticSphere
Joined: 4/25/2016
Msg: 58
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 9:13:36 AM
Interesting interview with an eyewitness who said it sounded like two shooters and another holding a door shut so people couldn’t flee the club.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ35V0etHiM
 villabolos
Joined: 7/24/2015
Msg: 59
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 9:33:42 AM
You ought to expand your horizons and do a little more research(on that kid, his parents, where his parents came from, where that kid was traveling to) waits.
I have read plenty of your posts in other parts of POF.
There are a lot of gay people who never believed islam is a threat either.
They then started throwing gay people off buildings and hanging them in the middle east...and a lot of gay people still have an axe to grind with Christianity.

Now that it is here, I hope this opens their eyes.

islam and western civilization are not compatible.

Diversity is not the answer, it's the problem.
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 60
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 9:40:58 AM

and a lot of gay people still have an axe to grind with Christianity.


and so they should:


The people of Uganda, Nigeria, Russia and elsewhere are leading their own struggles for human rights. Their fight is difficult enough without campaigns of vilification designed by a handful of Americans who distort the meaning of the Gospels to justify the criminalization of innocents.

Lively is facing a civil lawsuit in a Massachusetts court brought by the African group Sexual Minorities Uganda, which has accused him of violating international law by inciting persecution of Ugandan gays. Although Lively has denied the lawsuit's allegations, it is one of the few cases that attempts to hold Americans accountable for inciting persecution overseas.

Lively and other culture warriors rely on their deeds abroad going largely unnoticed back home. When things get hot, as they did during the debate over Uganda's "kill the gays" bill, they issue statements distancing themselves from the events they have set in motion. But they should be held accountable for the persecution of women and LGBTQ people abroad.

If we fail to do so, we'll find that Nigeria, Russia and Uganda are just the beginning.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 61
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 9:43:29 AM
"islam and western civilization are not compatible."

I suppose we should also send every white person with a criminal record back to where their ancestors came from. White criminals and white law abiding citizens are not compatible.
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 62
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 9:54:05 AM
"and a lot of gay people still have an axe to grind with Christianity."

"and so they should"




No. They shouldn't.

That promotes the idea that we should vilify all members of a group by the actions of a few.
 Inner_Gorilla
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 63
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 9:54:35 AM

No one can prevent something like this once someone is in the country.
So, unless he was among the people let in by the Obama administration, I can't see blaming the President.


The shooter was from New York. We should build a huge wall around New York and not let any of them out.
 chinook1111
Joined: 4/1/2016
Msg: 64
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 10:01:32 AM
IIRC,in 19th century Bosnia,only Muslims were allowed to own guns.

@Hawking
Can straight people parade around in their underwear?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 65
view profile
History
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 10:02:23 AM
Message 29 ...
Your average Christian is not concerned with what goes on in gay clubs.

I wouldn't be too sure of that.

There are a lot of "born again X-tian" people out there who could have been toting that gun. They are pretty adamant about how they feel about gays and their whole existence. I used to have a neighbor that had a sign up in his yard that stated "gays are the cause of the breakdown of marriage". Then the sign said, "It offends god".

I wonder if it "offends god" when they kill others?

Message 42 ...
These parades have been a source of controversy for years.

In what way?

Never attended and I wouldn't want to see overweight guys in leather baring their butts .

If you have never attended, then how do you know about so many details on what they are or are not wearing?

Looks like an opportunity to act up more than anything else.

Most parades are ... annual 4th of July parade, people dress up like Uncle Sam and other patriotic characters and run all over the place! In a northern suburb (Dublin) here in the Columbus area, they dress up like leprechauns and run around all crazy on St. Patricks day ... boozing it up and tinting the rivers green, tinting the beer green, driving drunk.

Maybe they should be banned if people find them offensive?

I'm offended by people driving drunk on major holidays, but I would not support banning 4th of July or Thanksgiving or Christmas or Memorial Day or Labor Day parades.

No one is forcing anyone to attend the gay pride parades and no one is forcing anyone to go to a gay bar if they don't want to. I have been to many gay bars with various different friends (straight and gay) and have never been bothered by anything I've seen in them.

People need to stop thinking of gay as some sort of "boogie man"!

Message 50 ...
Things aren't all of a sudden just going to change since they are living in a western Christian nation.

I did not know we are now officially a "X-tian" nation.

What about all of us "non-believers" of anything? What about all the Buddhists and Jews and Sikhs (just to name a few) also living here? How do they fit into the notion of a "X-tian" nation?

Message 65 ...
Can straight people parade around in their underwear?

They already do ... "saggers" walk around with their trousers at their knees.

Down in Florida they finally had to post signs in front of a local elementary school that parents dropping off and picking up children had to be properly attired and no underwear showing. I had to drive by it everyday on my way to work. Those guys had their belts at the bottom of their butts ... why bother to put on their trousers if they are going to wear them below their butt? It was black, white, hispanic ... all colors and all shapes and sizes ... basically walking around in their underwear.

In several cities, topless is not against the law.

 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 66
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 10:15:16 AM

That promotes the idea that we should vilify all members of a group by the actions of a few.


you dinna seriously just type ^that . . if it's not a gun in your (collective) holster it's a broad stroke paintbrush, it's how you work as a people, it's all you understand, left, right, black, white, mickey, minnie, such a polarized country, unable
to adapt or compromise

draw the line, build that wall, but could y'all please stay inside when you do
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 67
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 10:15:20 AM
It is hard to know what to believe.

ISIS claimed responsibility.

The President says that the shooter was "inspired."

Sites showing you how to commit suicide are routinely removed from the web. Does it matter whether the owner contacted you and sent you the rope and someone to pull the chair or simply had something posted showing you how?

Why such pains to make a distinction?

Thanks for any insights.
 UtterAmazement
Joined: 5/15/2016
Msg: 68
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 10:23:02 AM

if it's not a gun in your (collective) holster it's a broad stroke paintbrush



it's how you work as a people


Can't get much broader than that.
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 69
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 10:34:10 AM
Regardless of what you think of America, Ms. Babblefish....

You should be in Orlando today....the outpouring of love and kindness amongst strangers is truly inspirational.

Continued thoughts and prayers for the victims and families.
 LLove2LaughToo
Joined: 6/6/2016
Msg: 70
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 10:39:40 AM

No one can prevent something like this once someone is in the country.
So, unless he was among the people let in by the Obama administration, I can't see blaming the President.



Msg: 64
The shooter was from New York. We should build a huge wall around New York and not let any of them out.


That’s basically what I asked Msg: 51.

Obviously no one wants to explain, if Trump has been our president for the past four years, how a total ban on Muslims would have stopped Omar Mateen in Florida, the LA suspect James Wesley Howell, the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Newtown, Dylann Roof Charleston church shooting, and the San Bernardino massacre, if these mentally unstable individuals were born and raised in the U.S.?

Trump's total Muslim ban would have been ineffective in every single one of these cases.
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 71
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 10:50:13 AM

Regardless of what you think of America, Ms. Babblefish....


it is regardless isn't it . .


You should be in Orlando today....the outpouring of love and kindness amongst strangers is truly inspirational.


not necessary to be in Orlando, inspiration crosses all boundaries, the candlelit vigil downtown Vancouver was extremely poignant as each victim's name and age was read out


Speaking at the vigil, Danny Ramadan, a gay Syrian refugee who fled civil war in Syria and arrived in Vancouver a year and a half ago, disagreed with people who called the attack an act of terrorism.

“For so many people around the world, terrorism is someone who looks like me,” he said. But the Florida shooting was not terrorism, "this is an act of homophobia and they should call it what it is.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 72
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 11:02:19 AM

Interesting interview with an eyewitness who said it sounded like two shooters and another holding a door shut so people couldn’t flee the club.


But, here's what we know:


What we know:

The gunman has been identified as 29-year-old Omar Mateen, an American citizen who was born in New York.
Dozens of victims remain hospitalized, many in critical condition .
Mateen was killed by law enforcement after he took hostages during an hours-long siege.
He used a legally purchased assault rifle and handgun , which he had bought in the last 12 days. He also had another "device" but it's not clear what that was.
Mateen lived in the area of Fort Pierce, Fla., about 120 miles south of Orlando, and worked as a private security officer .
Investigators are operating under the theory that the attack was inspired by Islamic State .
Mateen had been interviewed by the FBI twice and had once been on a terrorist watch list .
President Obama called the shooting an act of terror that was an attack on all Americans.
Follow local coverage from the Orlando Sentinel and see a timeline of how the shooting unfolded.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-nightclub-shooting-live-updates-htmlstory.html
 memtoo
Joined: 6/2/2016
Msg: 73
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 11:05:48 AM
I will just say this. Donald Trump is human trash. I would not be surprised if his hate inspired speeches set this guy over the edge, especially because Trump gets so much support, which means people here support the hate he espouses against Muslims. Imagine if you are already an angry guy, and you see a country turning against you only because of your religion and the Republican Nominee proudly claiming you are entitled to no rights as an American.

You people on the right better wake up to this monstrosity you have created before it is too late. He may be responsible for this massacre, although of course that cannot be proven. Regardless, everything about him . . . I mean everything .. . speaks to his being a grifter, a conman and a fraud. Any who support this man should be ashamed of themselves.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 74
view profile
History
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 11:09:35 AM
“That promotes the idea that we should vilify all members of a group by the actions of a few.”

If only it were “a few,” but most conservative Christians seem to be overwhelmed with hate for homosexuals. Are most of them going to blast away 50 people at a gay club? No, but neither are most Muslims. Honestly, I’m not even going to say that it’s the majority of conservative Christians who are filled with such hate, but they keep supporting leaders like Roy Moore, Pat McCrory and Dan Patrick who are hatemongers, so you’d have to say the majority of conservative Christians are complicit, regardless of whether they are personally filled with such hate.

Ultimately I’m bothered by fact that it takes a mass murder to elicit an outpouring of support for the LGBT community from many Christians, and even then, I suspect if the killer had been Christian instead of Muslim, the tone would be very different – in some people’s cases (like Cruz), it seems to be less concern for the LGBT community than opposition to Islam (and Democrats).

“ISIS claimed responsibility.”

ISIS claims responsibility for many things ISIS did not coordinate or even know about prior to it happening. Again, it’s way early in this investigation but all the reports I’ve come across strongly suggest Obama is right: Mateen was “inspired” by ISIS but not actually affiliated with them. Even the inspiration seems like just a drop in his bucket of hate and psychological problems. But there isn’t any question that he professed his allegiance to ISIS while in the middle of mass murder. Interestingly, Mateen’s family is from Afghanistan, whose main terrorist/terrorist-type organizations are the Taliban (who his father has called "warrior brothers" but also has denounced at times, too) and Al-Qaida, so why skip over those organizations more closely associated with his background for one based in Syria and Iraq? (I'm pretty sure I know the answer to that question but the point is, not all Muslims are the same.)

“Can straight people parade around in their underwear?”

At Fantasy Fest and Mardi Gras, they often parade around naked. And I have never attempted to stop them.

"Imagine if you are already an angry guy, and you see a country turning against you only because of your religion and the Republican Nominee proudly claiming you are entitled to no rights as an American."

Unfortunately I believe there's going to be a lot more "angry guy" violence related to Trump from all religions, races and political persuasions before November 8. And depending on the results (or maybe not), probably some more after that, too.

*

Mmm, interesting new (to me) piece of information about the choice of attack location:

"Salman [Marteen's current wife] told authorities the couple had recently been to Downtown Disney as well as Pulse, a federal law enforcement source told People. The trip to Downtown Disney came in April, the source said."

Why exactly was a homophobe in Pulse? With his wife?
 ChaoticSphere
Joined: 4/25/2016
Msg: 75
20 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack
Posted: 6/13/2016 11:24:37 AM
“We have to have that compassion for people. With homosexuals, it’s the same. Out of compassion, Let’s get rid of them now”. Muslim Imam speaking in Orlando Florida.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vev-OzHQy94
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