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 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 276
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Arab woman face coveredPage 12 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)

Jovan, the problem with these books filled with fairy-tails is there is some reason hundreds of millions of people believe in them, highly intelligent people, more than 2000 years later. Can you explain that please?


What's to explain? It's a tradition and people like belonging to something. So called "highly intelligent" people also believe in psychics and other nonsense. It doesn't make those things true. It's a logical fallacy to draw that conclusion. If a smart person believes they can walk through walls, it doesn't mean people can walk through walls, it just means a smart person has a strange superstitious belief. I'm not sure if you're posing that question to Jovan, but the logic is flawed.
 modssook22
Joined: 9/26/2016
Msg: 277
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 1:31:27 PM
Well Coma, I get what you are saying, but I tend to think that those of us who reject simply do not see the same thing that others see. I already mentioned the incredible thought that went into some of the passages in the Bible, the mathematical code that is hidden there. And I remember your arguments well from is there a God Thread.

But the thing is, our reality is not true reality and nobody . . . and I mean nobody can really adequately explain the creation of the Universe and the creation of life on our earth.

Yes I read Hawking's Grand design, and I religiously read Scientific American for all of the latest scientific theories. . but they are just that ... theories.

The way I see it, they may well be a designer behind all of this. Whether that designer inspired some of the words in the bible . . who am I or anybody else to say for sure?
 modssook22
Joined: 9/26/2016
Msg: 278
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 1:33:37 PM

In addition they blame the 'booting of posters' on a gaggle of [usually older] women, citing jealousy of the still young and pretty. Pathetic indeed~


In my case, I have zero doubt it is older women responsible but I never cited Jealousy as a reason. I just think it is due to nastiness, meanness and anger . . at their aging process.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 279
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History
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 1:37:25 PM

But the thing is, our reality is not true reality and nobody . . . and I mean nobody can really adequately explain the creation of the Universe and the creation of life on our earth.


That's another flawed argument. A lot of people have presented it, but the problem is that making up a God like the Christian God requires more explanation than the universe does. The problem you run into is: Where did God come from and what about the thousands of other gods, where did they come from? If they can come from nowhere, why can't the universe? The cause would be exactly the same, the only difference being it's harder to explain how a powerful being with unlimited power came from nothing than a universe that slowly unfolded over time.


Yes I read Hawking's Grand design, and I religiously read Scientific American for all of the latest scientific theories. . but they are just that ... theories.


A scientific theory isn't "just a theory". It's a structured explanation of our universe based on the available information.


The way I see it, they may well be a designer behind all of this. Whether that designer inspired some of the words in the bible . . who am I or anybody else to say for sure?


Why focus on the bible? There are so many other holy books and fables out there, going back thousands of years before the bible. If people could communicate telepathically with spirits from other dimensions and write books, they would still be doing it today. It's kind of strange for a designer of the universe to have the power to make an entire universe but no power to make one book appear without humans writing it.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 9/27/2016
Msg: 280
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 1:43:57 PM


In addition they blame the 'booting of posters' on a gaggle of [usually older] women, citing jealousy of the still young and pretty. Pathetic indeed~

Nice to see you back.


I missed that part. Im sorry to hear that women were blamed for their behavior. Its sadly par for the course though...
 modssook22
Joined: 9/26/2016
Msg: 281
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 1:48:58 PM
I can't argue about some of the made up stuff. I find the Jesus myth ludicrous on its face to tell you the truth, and the Bombastic God of the Old Testament leaves a lot to be desired.

That being said..... I too have always wondered about the cause and effect argument . . what came first . . the Universe or the Designer, and who designed the designer .. . and on and on. I just assume for myself that if there is a designer, he was created in another Universe out of the infinite number of possible universes out there.

This I do also feel though . . . there is no reason I should be alive and conscious in the present now of time (whatever time is of course). Why Me? Why Now? Why here. A vast Universe. An infinite amount of none-life. . and yet here we are.

Nope . . . just too difficult for me to assume it all just developed. Maybe in the future, if Science ever actually comes up with an explanation for our individual Consciousness.

Until then . . we don't know or see reality. We only perceive what we perceive. The truth is hidden from us. We just don't know.
 modssook22
Joined: 9/26/2016
Msg: 282
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 1:51:18 PM

I missed that part. Im sorry to hear that women were blamed for their behavior. Its sadly par for the course though...


Yes, we need you professed Men-haters to see and make sure others see the truth. . . its the fault of men. Its always a man's fault . . . in a pig's eye, when they are not flying of course.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 9/27/2016
Msg: 283
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 4:08:27 PM

Yes, we need you professed Men-haters to see and make sure others see the truth. . . its the fault of men. Its always a man's fault . . .


Because supporting liberation from systematic inequity is EXACTLY equivalent to hating half the world's population. I gave birth to sons, save your false victim of hate speech for when it actually applies. Are you one of those types who think the BLM movement is due to racism too? Anyone who stands up for themselves is your persecutor? Lol
 gudjcdhmodsgsuckgfj22
Joined: 9/25/2016
Msg: 284
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 6:18:29 PM
Leaves Blasphemous, don't make stuff up like Donald Trump. Just because I recognized your hatred for men does not mean I have a persecution complex or I am a victim. I'm not. You cannot Escape facts by projecting onto others your own insecurities.
 gudjcdhmodsgsuckgfj22
Joined: 9/25/2016
Msg: 285
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 6:21:41 PM
I have probably had 200 or more profiles terminated by the women here who are in fact suffering a persecution complex. I have probably had more profiles deleted then literatell hiker has had dates with men that never worked out. Almost all of your posts, including the fictional story you created about your worst date are strong evidence of your content for men. I am simply pointing it out.
 gudjcdhmodsgsuckgfj22
Joined: 9/25/2016
Msg: 286
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 6:24:31 PM
That contempt. Forklift spell checker.

to maintain the highest quality forums you are restricted to having no more then 2 of the last 10 posts on a thread.
Since 2 of the last 10 posts are yours you can not post to this thread.
 halforhalfnot
Joined: 9/13/2016
Msg: 287
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 6:25:17 PM
Oh for Christ's sakes. Nobody cares one way or the other. There aren't any "mods", self appointed or otherwise out to get you. You don't even rise to the level of annoying. You just don't understand the Internet and cookies well enough to keep a profile going.
 gudjcdhmodsgsuckgfj22
Joined: 9/25/2016
Msg: 288
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 6:33:56 PM
Whatever you say have time, but no offense, I will on my own technical expertise as opposed to yours. I don't know how the man managed to fool so many of you into thinking it was simply reporting. And with all of your expertise have time, how come you could not manage to successfully get literate back online. Nobody has been able to get rid of me. Many women have been trying for a long time now. Of course I am speaking only of this forum. In real life I always had the exact opposite problem LOL.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 289
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History
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 9:17:06 PM

That being said..... I too have always wondered about the cause and effect argument . . what came first . . the Universe or the Designer, and who designed the designer .. . and on and on. I just assume for myself that if there is a designer, he was created in another Universe out of the infinite number of possible universes out there.


There doesn't have to be a designer though. It's easier to explain the universe coming from "nothing" than to explain a creator coming from "nothing." Why to prove the harder one?


This I do also feel though . . . there is no reason I should be alive and conscious in the present now of time (whatever time is of course). Why Me? Why Now? Why here. A vast Universe. An infinite amount of none-life. . and yet here we are.

Check out the book Peopled Darkness by J.D. Arthur or Salvia Divinorum - The Reality of Life and Death by Stuart Mason. They explain reality a lot better than religion does.


Nope . . . just too difficult for me to assume it all just developed. Maybe in the future, if Science ever actually comes up with an explanation for our individual Consciousness.


What needs explaining? We have brains.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 290
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History
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 9:45:09 PM
Once you get rid of the need to think there must be a reason, you can get closer to understanding that we don't know, we will probably never know, and at some point we will be extinct.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 9/27/2016
Msg: 291
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/2/2016 10:06:38 PM

Almost all of your posts, including the fictional story you created about your worst date are strong evidence of your content for men. I am simply pointing it out.


You follow me from post to post with yet another fake account to call me a man hater, accuse me of being another poster, and all this ridiculous shit.

Any man who has the time to make THIS many fake accounts to harass strangers with has a serious freaking mental problem. Your life must be terribly pathetic that THIS Is how you choose to spend your precious time out of all the things you could be doing.

I don't know how you ended up this way. If you are ugly as hell, have a really small penis, are mentally unbalanced, are crippled and thus don't work a job so you have all day to sit on the net being a troll, etc. Your personality is herendously toxic. If you acted decently you could perhaps be laying with a woman right now, rather than sitting behind your computer screen like the pathetic, lonely, angsty male you currently are.

I'm going to block every troll account you use, because you are beneath responding to after this point. You aren't here for discussion, you only come to attempt to make people miserable, you are a bad person, and I don't associate with people incapable of acting like a human being.
 23245MODSSUCK644o2
Joined: 9/24/2016
Msg: 292
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/3/2016 6:49:45 AM
Sweetheart, this board is entertainment. And yes I can multitask...respond to you and work at the same time. Whatever issues you claim I have, at least I don't make up fictional worst date stories to show my contempt for women. I enjoy spending my tlI'm castigating hateful people. So sue me.
 23245MODSSUCK644o2
Joined: 9/24/2016
Msg: 293
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/3/2016 6:56:27 AM
So brains develope consciousness, sentience? For what purpose? If we simply developed from nothing, we would be less complex creatures than we are. We may be here simply to observe the universe. What would be the point if it's existence if nobody knew it was here? Regardless, I don't buy the laws of physics, the great variations in life..just developed out of nothing. I just don't buy it. I'm not religious because religions are absurd....but that doesn't mean there is not more there.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 294
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History
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/3/2016 9:04:33 AM

So brains develope consciousness, sentience? For what purpose? If we simply developed from nothing, we would be less complex creatures than we are. We may be here simply to observe the universe. What would be the point if it's existence if nobody knew it was here? Regardless, I don't buy the laws of physics, the great variations in life..just developed out of nothing. I just don't buy it. I'm not religious because religions are absurd....but that doesn't mean there is not more there.


The first part of this is incorrect. We didn't develop from "nothing", we developed from simple organisms into more complex organic life. Why would we be less complex? Evolution has been proven true with facts and evidence, and you can trace our lineage back as far as you want. There's really nothing overly complex about us. You don't have to buy the laws of physics, but they're true whether you believe in them or not. You wouldn't be using a computer, eating the food you eat, or living in a house if the laws of physics weren't constant. There are a lot of good books on evolution that can explain diversity better than I can.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 9/27/2016
Msg: 295
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/3/2016 9:17:24 AM
Evolution works on the principal of mutation. If a mutation is beneficial to survival, the individual who has it will live to pass it on. The benefit of a brain is movement, the ability to go to a new food source. The ability to protect ones self from attack.

Predator species have more advanced brains because they also must discern the movement of their prey, calculate scenarios which leads to successful hunts. Humans tend to think their consciousness is very high, its not, MANY species are incredibly intelligent.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 296
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/3/2016 9:25:06 AM
"...we developed from simple organisms into more complex organic life."

Do you mean God did not plop Adam onto Earth from heaven, being the first fully formed human being-and where Adam decided to remove one of his own ribs just for the heck of it, without causing any permanent injury or death or knowledge of how to safely remove a rib, and the rib turned into a woman-Eve? And any kids they had kept interbreeding with brothers, sisters, and cousins to create the world's population as we know it? What a shock that anyone would dispute this (lol). It's a good thing Adam or Eve wasn't gay. Otherwise, there might be no such thing as the human race.
 bgbfmodshykissyuraz22z
Joined: 9/26/2016
Msg: 299
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/3/2016 9:52:32 AM
Well Coma...we've been through this argument before. In your world, its all simple... The Universe erupted out of nothing, and than evololution took care of everything since then. The problem is that like all of us, you live in a world devoid of reality. You only perceive what you perceive. You have to open your mind to the much larger picture out there. Getting beyond the fact the quantum world establishes by science that our perceptions are not reality, some scientists say the same. Until we truly know reality, its difficult to say what caused what::

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/09/06/492779594/what-if-evolution-bred-reality-out-of-us

Look around you. What do you see?

Other people going about their business? Rooms with tables and chairs? Nature with its sky, grass and trees?

All that stuff, it's really there, right? Even if you were to disappear right now — poof! — the rest of the world would still exist in all forms you're seeing now, right?

Or would it?

This kind of metaphysical question is something you'd expect in a good philosophy class — or maybe even a discussion of quantum physics. But most of us wouldn't expect an argument denying the reality of the objective world to come out of evolutionary biology. After all, doesn't evolution tell us we've been tuned to reality by billions of years of natural selection? It makes sense that creatures that can't tell a poisonous snake from a stick shouldn't last long and, therefore, shouldn't pass their genes on to the next generation.

That is certainly how the standard argument goes. But Donald Hoffman, a cognitive scientist, isn't buying it.

For decades, Hoffman, a professor at the University of California, Irvine, has been studying the links between evolution, perception and intelligence (both natural and machine). Based on that body of work, he thinks we've been missing something fundamental when it comes to fundamental reality.

Fundamentally, Hoffman argues, evolution and reality (the objective kind) have almost nothing to do with each other.

Hoffman's been making a lot of news in recent months with these claims. His March 2015 TED talk went viral, gaining more than 2 million views. After a friend sent me the video, I was keen to learn more. I called Dr. Hoffman, and he graciously set aside some time for us to talk. What followed was a delightful conversation with a guy who does, indeed, have a big radical idea. At the same time, Hoffman doesn't come off as someone with an ax to grind. He seems genuinely open and truly curious. At his core, Hoffman says, he's a scientist with a theory that must either live or die by data.

So, what exactly is Hoffman's big radical idea? He begins with a precisely formulated theorem:

"Given an arbitrary world and arbitrary fitness functions, an organism that sees reality as it is will never be more fit than an organism of equal complexity that sees none of reality but that is just tuned to fitness."
So let's unpack Hoffman's theorem for a moment. To paraphrase the website Understanding Evolution, "fitness" is used to describe how good a particular organism is at getting its offspring into the next generation relative to the other organisms around it. When people study evolution using mathematics or computers, they imagine there are compact ways of describing what makes an organism fit for a particular environment. That's what they mean by "fitness functions."

So imagine you have two kinds of creatures living in an environment. The first is tuned to respond directly to objective reality — the actual independent reality out there. The other creature has behavior only tuned to its, and the environment's, fitness function. The second creature couldn't care less about what's really going on in reality. What Hoffman's theorem says is the fitness-tuned critter will — almost always — win the evolution game.

To see how this works, consider an example Hoffman describes in an interview with Quanta Magazine. He begins by imagining a resource like water whose real-world quantity has been objectively ordered — very little water, medium amounts of water, lots of water. According to Hoffman, most fitness functions won't be direct responses to something like this ordering. Instead they will be like bell curves. Too little water is bad (death by desiccation), but so is too much water (death by drowning). That means evolution would tune the organism's behavior so that too little and too much water would both be bad and both generate the same kind of response (perception). Only the moderate amount of water would generate a different response. As Hoffman puts it:

" ... an organism tuned to fitness might see small and large quantities of some resource as, say, red, to indicate low fitness, whereas they might see intermediate quantities as green, to indicate high fitness. Its perceptions will be tuned to fitness, but not to truth. It won't see any distinction between small and large — it only sees red — even though such a distinction exists in reality."
To test this idea, Hoffman and collaborators have run evolutionary simulations with different kinds of fitness functions — some of those tuned to reality and some having nothing to do with reality. The non-reality functions almost always win. For Hoffman, the consequences of these studies are profound. As he told me:

"We assume the 'predicates' of perceptions — space, time, physical objects, shapes — are the right ones to describe physical reality. And this theorem says that [such] predicates are [the wrong ones] almost surely."
In other words, evolution couldn't care less if you perceive objective reality. It only wants you to have sex successfully. As a consequence, your apprehension of the world is tuned to whatever allows that to happen. Thus, your perceptions at the root level have nothing to do with some fundamental physics upon which the fundamental nature of objective independent reality is constructed.

Hoffman then builds something even more radical out of his broken link between objective reality and evolution. He calls it conscious realism, and it's based on the premise that "circuits of conscious agents" are what end up defining experienced reality. While there clearly is a world separate from us, Hoffman says, evolution does not give us access to that. Instead, he claims, it's our interactions as conscious agents that give shape to the reality we experience. "I can take separate observers," he told Quanta Magazine, "put them together and create new observers, and keep doing this ad infinitum. It's conscious agents all the way down."

This is a pretty head-spinning stuff. Our perceived reality has nothing to do with the world in and of itself? That's the kind of thing that's bound to piss off a whole lot of people in a whole lot of fields. I asked Hoffman about the reaction to his work. "All over the map," he replied. "I'm either a genius or an absolute stupid idiot. The emotions are pretty strong."

Indeed, criticisms both closely reasoned and otherwise can be found from a variety of sources. For myself, I find the logic in Hoffman's ideas both exciting and potentially appealing because of other philosophical biases I carry around in my head. Also, it's clear from the body of his work that Hoffman has been seriously attacking the problem from a range of angles for a while.

But the ideas are also so radical that I'm inclined to think they're wrong (as most ideas this radical tend to be). It's gonna take a lot of proof to tip the scales in my (and most others') view.

But that's as it should be. And what I really like about Donald Hoffman is his cheerful willingness to let the fur fly.

Let the games (evolutionary and otherwise) go on!
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 300
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 10/3/2016 1:47:36 PM

Evolution works on the principal of mutation.

True dat.

If a mutation is beneficial to survival, the individual who has it will live to pass it on.

That might be true, sometimes. I used to make the mistake of viewing evolution as a progression, and a series of positive 'improvements' too.
But if you think about it, sheer luck can often come into play, and the 'best', and/ or most successfully adaptive variants would always win.
But there are other factors.
EG., the dinosaurs were superbly evolved, and adapted, and successful, but then a big fvck-off meteorite wiped them all out, and all current (I think?) life-forms now, including us, are evolved from the (about) 6-7% of species that survived the 'Permian Extinction event'.
-Mostly little ratty creatures, which explains a lot!

Take 'Sickle-Cell Anemia' for example.
People with this hereditary condition can hardly be described as the "most fit".
But the condition is also associated with some immunity to Malaria, and that kills ("Fit") people, without that immunity.
It's perfectly possible for the least-well-adapted variants to be the only survivors, simply because some catastrophic event, or disease, or changes in environment, wiped out all the others.
As counter-intuitive as it might seem, Evolution isn't always a linear progression of ongoing 'improvements'.
There are far too many examples in nature of really shit 'designs', or lifeforms which can only survive in very narrow and specific environments.
And there have been many evolutionary dead-ends, and extinctions.
Eg.
The adult Mayfly has no mouth, and only survives for about a day, as it can't feed.
Mind you, that one day is a complete mating-frenzy/orgy.
So 'swings and roundabouts' there, I think.
Sorry, I'm rambling now.

Back on topic:
If ladies feel the "need" to cover their faces (or are even bullied into it, by males), I think they're 'missing a trick'.
They could all wear masks.
I think it would be really cool if ALL Muslim women wore Richard Nixon masks.
That would cheer everyone up!
Carry on.
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