Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Arab woman face covered      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 51
Arab woman face coveredPage 3 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)

I may not be sophisticated like you but I know that my face is my IDENTIFICATION to be recognize as a person.

That's fine FOR YOU... The operative elements of what you've said are : "I" and "my"...

It is entirely YOUR CHOICE if you wish to be identified BY SIGHT by every random stranger who you pass in public...

But guess what...? YOU don't have ANY right to know who every random person you pass is... YOU don't even have a right to see their faces if THEY don't want YOU to... You have NO automatic right to be know who they are, even by sight (of their face)... NONE, at all... and that IS here in North America...

Why you seem to believe that you have any right to know/recognize/otherwise identify, by face, random strangers you pass in public is absolutely beyond me...

I am in favor of banning any type of body covering on beaches in an effort to free women from oppression. Are any forumites with me on this ban?

Would we call that ban "The John Goodman in a Speedo/Rosanne Barr in a String Bikini Act"...?

Just something to think about...
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 52
view profile
History
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 8/31/2016 5:28:12 PM

""I'm trying to picture this world where someone wearing a garment because of their religious belief, uses it to kidnap a child, just to teach all those horrible PC people a lesson. LOL""""

Who said that? ...........NO ONE.


I said that, try and keep up!


I remember when I was a child and my mother often wore a black veil over her face, that was attached to a hat, very stylish at the time. What would she be accused of today, what with this fear of face coverings leading to .... something. We also both wore white gloves when dressed up...probably to hide our fingerprints, no doubt. I wonder how many people were scared or at least uncomfortable with us whited gloved females and adult females with black veils over their face, must have been awful for so many.

I remember school when I was a kid and you would have to drop to your knees for school staff and prove your skit was long enough to touch the floor, the horrors of showing one's lower thighs! And no pants for girls, no way, and no jeans for anyone, and certainly no shorts except in gym class where us girls had to wear bloomer bottoms and boys wore short shorts, which showed off a lot more. Boys hair could not be long enough that it touched his collar, oh and collars, all shirts for guys had to have collars, no T-shirts for anyone, and be tucked in to their trousers, must wear belts, no gym shoes of any kind for anyone, heck I remember when cheerleader skits were almost to the ankle. A different time, yes it was, except back in the 20 when my grandmother was a rowdy youth, she wore some very short skirts & dresses and no bra. Times change, styles change, religion's change what they think it holy, it will keep changing. Right now we are suffering from the fear of Muslims because some are terrorists, just like there have always been those we fear, when I was a kid it was communists.
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 53
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 8/31/2016 5:28:28 PM
Think you are right about that, Joe.....but now I am curious about how covering your face in a main pic here on Pof would work? The public vs. private thing and all??
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 54
view profile
History
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 8/31/2016 8:41:08 PM
KJ, I befriend a lady here a long time ago , she loves the forum and she always change her profile pictures. Then one time she change her profile Picture wearing a holoween mask fully covered face ,POF remove her account. I told her to change her name and profile but she doesn't want to be dishonest. Until this day ,we are still friends in Facebook.
KJ forgive some men here that their argument have no clarity sense only yapping it clouded their mind for not getting laid for a long long time.. I don't blame the women who doesn't want them..
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 55
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 8/31/2016 11:15:31 PM

but now I am curious about how covering your face in a main pic here on Pof would work? The public vs. private thing and all??

Why would you be curious about that...? I'm pretty sure you know what the site policy on that is (even when it does show the whole face)... Mais oui...?

I'm pretty sure you know just how many "rights" we have to do anything at all, for any reason, around here... vs. the public square... C'est vrai aussi, je pense...

Les deux ne sont pas la même chose...
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 56
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/1/2016 11:55:20 AM
"""""""Illinois law allows a person to wear a religious head covering when photographed for their driver’s license or identification card, provided it does not cover the person’s face. This is because the photograph plays an integral part of identifying the holder of the driver’s license and identification card.

To clarify further with an example, a head scarf covering the hair of a customer would be allowed, but an article of clothing covering the entire face, except the eyes, would not be allowed.


Some interpretations of this item claim that Muslims are now allowed to pose for driver's license photographs in Illinois with everything but their eyes obscured. However, the Illinois Religious Accommodation Guide covering driver's licenses and other forms of state-issued ID specify that Muslims (and Sikhs) may wear head coverings (such as hijabs) in photographs, not face-covering garb (such as burqas):


"""""


THAT makes sense,

Has this changed?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 57
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/1/2016 1:16:10 PM

THAT makes sense,

Has this changed?

And that has exactly... what... to do with the op's bigoted "foreign ways that she doesn't like" horse sh!t...?

And this has exactly... what... to do with people wearing veils in public places (notice that the law DOESN'T say you aren't allowed to wear a veil while making use of your driver's license? What do you suppose the difference that makes to be?)...?

And that has exactly... what... to do with having absolutely NO right to "see random peoples' faces"...

The funniest thing about the whole thing... the OP presents herself as an immigrant... complaining about other immigrants' "strange, foreign ways"... because they "make her uncomfortable"...

Could you invent a more ludicrous pile of fetid sh!t if you tried...?



"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life."

Frank Zappa
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 58
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/1/2016 1:55:41 PM
Vanilli wrote:

""""" but in the USA it is common that covered face people holdup banks.or rape. kill,ect.. Some law inforcement have hood face mask to do their job like the one my late husband wore jogging during winter in Denver CO I think it is called Ski mask. Is it not common sense for the Americans if they take people that displace in their own country and live here , they have to do the American way ? Freedom ? I was oriented coming to America that,I can not cook fried/grilled dried fish in my backyard ,the neighbors will call the police, I can not swim with underwears plus t shirt and shorts in a swimming pool, I can not squeeze myself to get ahead in line ,my husband yakked my long hair and hissed at me* it is rude* and it is also rude that if you meet eye to eye any stranger and ignore that person. So the arab refugees doesn't need to abide the law in this country, or the Americans will violate their rights on covering their faces. Okay. Did I understand correctly???""""

You are right, Vanilli. There are social conventions. And rules but not laws. As I pointed out, some banks make you remove hats when entering. Hmmm. maybe there is some safety issue involved?

The face coverings here are like us driving, trying on clothing or swimming in a public pool in Saudi Arabia or wearing a miniskirt out in public in some remote village in Afghanistan. There are more and more American muslims so this will become more and more common, even if not a good thing that aligns with the USA and its conventions. Notice that NOW is not protesting anything Islamist when it comes to women. Well, at least I have not heard a peep in the news or even here.

It's PC policed, see?

Again, the same people who defend it can't stand to see a cross for five seconds on their way to work or have someone with a bible in a cubicle that they have to pass by maybe three times a day or hear a valedictorian say a 30 second Christian prayer. They call the ACLU because they are offended. So ignore the noise.

They are ignoring that a culture changes with an influx of population and becomes an "other," whether the history of Crimea or Americans moving into Texas and making it an English speaking part of the USA eventually or the reverse NOW happening with the influx of Russians, Indians and mostly Speakers of many nations who have managed to make speaking spanish a requirement of many jobs in the USA.

Many Americans see no value in their culture and welcome the changes in culture where people bring to and enforce upon the USA the very culture they claimed to want to escape by moving to the USA. Many Westerners ( and, to my chagrin, Canadians more so, it seems) are self-loathing and full of guilt about . . . well. . . something. So they feel no need to defend themselves or preserve their culture.
If they were shot by someone in a bank with a face covering, they will probably blame themselves or the bank.


You are correct.NO ONE CAN WEAR AND DO WHATEVER HE WANTS WHENEVER HE WANTS in the USA. But at the moment, the squeaky and power wheels find saying anything contrary to the PC and coolness of Islam socially unacceptable. Hence the foul language, etc and kneejerk defense of any and all having to do with that.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 59
view profile
History
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/1/2016 2:20:27 PM
mungojoe You are not only stupid but DUMB to label me bigot. Because of my right to react on Saudi Arabian women covering their faces with black cloth here in America,. it has nothing to do with their religion as a Muslim it has something to do with their personal ideology, one woman said she knows that she is beautiful ,but she doesn't want to flaunt to the world, or whatever stupid reasons to justify their covered faces..Yes I complained about covered faces of Muslim , they maybe connected to ISIS, maybe do crimes to kill innocent people to weaken the power of America. and the Authority can not trace them because they can not identify them with their eyes only.. Is that make sense ? YES I was an IMMIGRANT busting my a ss working, declare a big amount of taxes and doing a lot of volunteer works, I am now American Citizen for 36 years ,, I hope some part of my taxes go to the schooling of some kids with the mentality like YOURS, if it grows your kind of a character, we don't need these covered faces people to bomb us and killed. We are already dead of your kind of mentality.

Vannili
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 60
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/1/2016 3:46:29 PM

one woman said she knows that she is beautiful ,but she doesn't want to flaunt to the world, or whatever stupid reasons to justify their covered faces.

So she CHOOSES to not "flaunt her beauty to the world"... but she shouldn't be allowed to because YOU think it is "a stupid reason"...?

Seriously...? I guess there was no need to understand the concept of "rights" to become a citizen 36 years ago...

Personally... I find her attitude far more commendable than that of those who try to "get by on their beauty"... but that's just me, I guess...

Yes I complained about covered faces of Muslim , they maybe connected to ISIS, maybe do crimes to kill innocent people to weaken the power of America. and the Authority can not trace them because they can not identify them with their eyes only.. Is that make sense ?

No, it isn't making any "sense" at all... because this isn't the world of "Minority Report" and it isn't a totalitarian regime...

We don't ban firearms because someone "might" commit a mass murder (a much more decided possibility in the US)...

We don't ban newspapers or radio/tv networks because they "might" be used to slander/libel someone or create mass public panic (see: War of the Worlds)...

We don't ban private or public meetings because they "might" be used to foment public disorder, insurrection or a criminal conspiracy...

We don't even ban cars, or people from driving, (even though no such "right" exists) because they "might" mow down a bunch of innocent pedestrians...

But you want to ban a piece of religious clothing because someone "might" use it to commit a crime...

it has nothing to do with their religion as a Muslim it has something to do with their personal ideology

Yeah right...

Your nonsense about "stupid reasons" (like choosing not to "flaunt her beauty") puts a complete lie to the claim it is not bigotry against muslims...

Please tell us how not wanting to "flaunt her beauty" is a dangerous "personal ideology" such that she should be forced to unveil...
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 61
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/1/2016 4:23:36 PM

Many Westerners ( and, to my chagrin, Canadians more so, it seems) are self-loathing and full of guilt about . . . well. . . something. So they feel no need to defend themselves or preserve their culture.


"Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity" (Wilson-Smith, 1996, p. 23). The famous Canadian architect Arthur Erickson agrees. He argues that Canada's lack of national identity will prove to be our strength in the next century as the world moves toward a "humanity-wide consciousness." By having "no history of cultural or political hegemony-almost no history at all to hinder us-we are welcomed over all other nations. We are more open to, curious about, and perceptive of other cultures." In Erickson's (1997, p. A17) view, "world economic issues rather than national interest will undermine the old paradigms."
 Heffelump
Joined: 8/27/2016
Msg: 62
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/1/2016 4:46:27 PM
I can't say I agree with that characterization. It's more like Canada's history and national identity is more open and accepting of difference.

John Ralston Saul writes about it in A Fair Country. We are more defined by an aboriginal penchant for egalitarianism and negotiation over violence. In Quebec where American style nationalism is stronger we see a history of anti semitism, and the kind of anti Islam sentiment expressed by some Americans here.
 queenravenclaw
Joined: 6/26/2016
Msg: 63
view profile
History
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/3/2016 8:05:28 PM
I'm appalled that I have to read about this stuff in a POF forum! I come here to see how I can make my profile better, what kind of guy should I talk to you and ones to avoid. I didn't come here for the politics. If i want that headache I'll stick with Facebook thank you.

By the way everyone has a right to feel comfortable. If someone were to pull the burqua or hijab off the women then they'd be in a lot of trouble(happened it grade school) the consquences if an adult did it probably worst.
 BeyondtheMatrix
Joined: 2/11/2016
Msg: 64
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/10/2016 12:57:13 PM
You say in your profile, Queenravenclaw, that you like horror, so these posts should be no problem to you.

I don't watch images of horror, or poverty, or lack, or human suffering. There's enough of it when I go out the front door.

The people here are simply expressing their opinions. And as 33pennylane said, no one is forcing you to read them.

Best wishes
- Peter
 jackalhype
Joined: 9/5/2016
Msg: 65
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/10/2016 1:33:27 PM

I'm appalled that I have to read about this stuff in a POF forum!


Speaking of intolerant and judgmental types . . . . I guess we need her approval before we choose our topics.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 11/19/2013
Msg: 66
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/12/2016 3:17:54 PM
If you ban hair covering, realize you must also ban what nuns, amish people, orthodox jews and a host of other religious people wear. So the question becomes: Will we ban all religious iconography in the name of secularism? Or will we just ban muslim garb and make it VERY clear that we are biased and prejudiced against muslim people - but will EASILY accept the SAME garb in more "white" associated religions?

See the problem?

It would seem to me that the most a secular nation should do is something along the lines of what Turkey did: Ban ALL head coverings (face and hair) in any government building or area funded by the government (public schools, courts, police stations, military posts, etc) BUT be very aware that women of this religion WILL Be punished for this rule: muslim fundamentalists will not send their daughters to school, and then they will be denied an education. So you must then pass a law to make public education MANDATORY for all people, and fully funded.

America is already constantly looking for ways to pass the buck of education expenditure with fees onto the impoverished parents they DEMAND send their kids to school. America already seeks to make school as prison like as possible, installing cops, no tolerance policies, banning kids for hugging, teaching blatant bullshit, etc. America is NOT going to do what Turkey did: commit to sending 1.5 million girls to college for free annually to ensure more class mobility for females. So this really leads into a pretty revolutionary change of things if we are going to do it right.

On a side note: I DO think we can ban FACE coverings, because that becomes an issue with IDing, but don't forget the many ski masks and scarves the northern parts of america wears in the winter - as a wisconsinite, I assure you, lots of people would be getting ticketed in january for ushankas.
 6665366
Joined: 9/8/2016
Msg: 67
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/12/2016 3:24:33 PM

I DO think we can ban FACE coverings, because that becomes an issue with IDing, but don't forget the many ski masks and scarves the northern parts of america wears in the winter - as a wisconsinite, I assure you, lots of people would be getting ticketed in january for ushankas.


Really? I am guessing you don't hold yourself out to be an expert on the Constitution? Don't worry . . . Trump never read it either.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 11/19/2013
Msg: 68
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/12/2016 3:25:36 PM
Also want to add, as someone who used to live in turkey: America's women freedom to constantly sexually objectify themselves is not a great thing for women either. American women put up with a lot of sexual harassment in the work place, they put up with a great deal of men abandoning their family for infidelity. The lack of family means half of the people are living in poverty as they pay day care workers to watch their kids. In america its common for dope smokers to sit in jail longer than rapists, the sexualization of your culture is especially horrendous for young women who are constant diets, shooting their bodies up with toxic injections and surgeries to remain attractive. There is a HUGE obsession with youth here, that devalues older women greatly, and is very unhealthy for the kids in this culture. Most young women I know complain of having to f*ck like a porn store because the guys are so strung out on porn. Very unlike the east where men get turned on just seeing free hair.

I'm pointing all this out because i find lots of "western" feminists concern themselves with women of the east in telling them WHAT TO WEAR (just like men, ironically!), but they never bother to ask how the east got so fundamentalist in the first place, because that would mean unveiling how american apathy has created a great deal of this crap. Many people talk about the east but really don't know the first thing about it in regards to its history of human rights or cultural morrays.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 11/19/2013
Msg: 69
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/12/2016 3:30:03 PM

Really? I am guessing you don't hold yourself out to be an expert on the Constitution?


I have read it, and Im well aware that we can't pass a law that respects or prohibits a practice of religion, BUT we have made exceptions already with not only THIS right, but many others, say for instance how we now have "free speech zones" or laws of sedition. I'm not an expert on the constitution, but i actually am a scholar of religion...

Your assumption I never read the constitution (my father actually made me memorize it when I was a kid because we were immigrants) and comparing me to a fascist like trump is pretty damn off the hook.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 70
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/12/2016 4:56:12 PM
"""""America's women freedom to constantly sexually objectify themselves is not a great thing for women either. American women put up with a lot of sexual harassment in the work place, they put up with a great deal of men abandoning their family for infidelity. "

That is true.

Western women have gone to the other extreme in the name of "liberation" when all it has done is cause women problems.

What is the happy medium?


_______________

Although, the birkini is akin to the confederate flag for the French, given the slaughter and problems they have had with the islamic community.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 11/19/2013
Msg: 71
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/12/2016 7:56:39 PM
The bottom line, I think, is:
Women are the primordial producers: we literally make the laborers that this whole hierarchical system of a few rich and a crap ton of poor rests on. Keep women oppressed, keep them obedient, unquestioning, and they model that behavior for their kids too, so the system keeps going unchallenged, and thats why patriarchy is common to any privatization economy and absent in egalitarian economies.

Women's liberation doesn't come in the clothes we wear, whom we are free to have sex with, it doesn't really rest in silly crap like if we cover our hair or are allowed to wear tight jeans. I think it comes in our ability to be economically free.

And I don't just mean the western ability to be "free" to take out tons of debt for a useless degree only to get a crappy wage. I mean a minimum wage that is a LIVING WAGE, with benefits that cover health and maternity care and subsidized child care - so that a woman is free to leave her abusive husband, free to have say over her reproductive ability, free to choose if she wants to work outside the home - OR - if her work as a mother, raising the next generation and adding laborers to our economy, is recognized as a viable and paid job.

I think women of the west have to stop getting caught up in these deflection issues the rich **stards want us to discuss (like pretending women in the east need to have their husbands and sons killed to "Free" them which suits the rich man's war profits) but instead focus on really freeing females by creating a more egalitarian economic system.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 11/19/2013
Msg: 72
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/12/2016 8:05:22 PM
As to the French pretending the burkini is like a confederate flag, take it from the daughter of a french immigrant: France spent decades colonizing the living hell out of north Africa, raping those women, pillaging those resources, and stealing left and right from the muslims. NOW, after these children have come back to the land of the fathers who abandoned them, and become french citizens, after refugees are fleeing from NATO bombs, which the french belong to, France has the audacity to pretend that the burkini is an affront to their secularism. They had NO respect for the Berber, Libyans, Moroccans, Algerians, Egyptians, Nubians and now they cry they want respect for themselves from their victims?

Nope! As a french woman, I'm telling you: France is being a bunch of racist, white supremacist colonial pigs on this one. Similar to how white folks NOW in america try to pretend that the native americans are jerks for protesting. Trying to pretend that mexicans, whom ARE mostly NATIVE AMERICANS FORCED INTO THE DESERT NOT EVEN A HUNDRED YEARS AGO, are all illegal narco trade psychos who came to steal the white country.

When everyone with an ounce of honesty and knowledge of history knows that white america genocided natives, stole this land, chased off the remnants, then used black slaves to build this "country", and if those populations riot as a result of their ill treatment that has been happening for centuries, the white rich people of this country would deserve it. They know it, I know it, and I'm sure you know it deep down too....

Now watch every white power conservative descend on this post like a vulture hahahahahahhaha
 dontstopbelieving777
Joined: 4/9/2016
Msg: 73
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/13/2016 4:16:26 AM
That 6665366 person simply sounds racist! You can tell they are when they get argumentative like that. Things may never change for the better. I am Native American and have seen a lot and learned a lot and I can smell a racist a mile away. Everything you said Char is the most intelligent and the most fair, you have a beautiful mind!!!
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 74
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/13/2016 4:30:16 AM
Ah.

Now you sound like confederate flag waivers who say "its just a flag." One should not discount that others are offended by it. Just as one should not demand that the French not be offended.

But I understand now, given your background. Perhaps if I were an immigrant or a child or grandchild of an immigrant, I too may feel the need to defend this. No matter the negatives.

What I don't understand is why leave your country of origin if you find its traditional ways of life are to be brought with you and continued in public life?

And what happened to the native Americans is a good example of what NOT TO DO. And it seems that what happened to North Africa is another example of WHAT NOT TO DO.

If you knock on someone's door, enter and punch that person in the face and steal his food, does that mean that when his grandchild attempts to do the same to your grandchild your grandchild should let him in and be punched in the face with a smile or should he defend himself and his?


Tit for five generations later tat is not workable.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 75
Arab woman face covered
Posted: 9/13/2016 8:03:51 AM

What I don't understand is why leave your country of origin if you find its traditional ways of life are to be brought with you and continued in public life?


Why leave their country of origin? As BB mentioned, NATO has been bombing the hell out of those countries for years, killing thousands-it could be millions killed by now. And if Trump becomes president, he said he sees nothing wrong with using nuclear weapons, which could result in killing every person in the middle east countries-and I doubt Trump would have any remorse about doing it, since he sees non-white people as less than human. That's good enough motivation for people to leave those countries and become refugees.

But why should they have to abandon their culture and religion they've had for thousands of years if it doesn't affect anyone else? Would they be more acceptable if they were Catholic or some other Christian religion? Dee-are you offended if you're driving somewhere and see a Chinese, Italian or Mexican restaurant? Do you want all restaurants to serve only "real American" food to show patriotism and abandon any cultural reference?



It's just a head covering or just a face covering. Why is it a big deal. As one mentioned, do we strip off the coverings of nuns or Hutterites? Many religions have head coverings...


Queen Elizabeth is often seen wearing a head scarf. When was the last time you saw a picture of her without any kind of head cover? Does that mean she's a terrorist who is going to blow up the country? Should she be told to only appear in public bare headed, to reduce the nation's fear that she is a terrorist?
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Arab woman face covered