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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > OK, I'm starting to feel afraid      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 76
OK, I'm starting to feel afraidPage 4 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Could you be just a tad more nurturing please?
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 3/29/2014
Msg: 77
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/13/2016 10:33:55 PM

This is nonsense. You made the claims, you provide the evidence. I'm not your gopher.

Oh geez, you going on about that yet again? Why is it that you haven't learned from the last few times I've had to school you?


The neuro research is showing that pornography acts like drugs: hijacking the brain’s reward systems in the same way that cocaine does. And just like many drugs, it decreases brain matter in the areas of motivation and decision-making, impaired impulse control, and desensitization to normal sexual acts. Cambridge university showed in 2015 that pornography use drives novelty-seeking, and that exactly why users need more and more extreme content over time in order achieve the same level of arousal. This shouldn't be a surprise to ANYONE. Pretty much any user of porn knows that Playboy pictures of the 70's no longer cut it today, because we have all been conditioned to need more explicit items. This is EXACTLY why soft core porn is so low selling and the harder forms of porn like Gonzo are banking.

That completely reeks of BS. What cuts it for someone is what they like ...

uh no, it's not BS.
[wading into the fray]

I'll cite one source (and the footnotes and bibliography will cite to several more) The Brain That Changes Itself by Norman Doidge, MD. A book covering various aspects of brain plasticity. The entire chapter 4 speaks to the scientific evidence of how porn effects the brain. It is titled "Acquiring Tastes and Loves; What Neuroplasticity Teaches Us About Sexual Attraction and Love"

pp. 107-9
Pornographers promise healthy pleasure and relief from sexual tension, but what they often deliver is an addiction, tolerance, and an eventual decrease in pleasure. Paradoxically, the male patients I worked with often craved pornography but didn’t like it.

… An addict experiences cravings because his plastic brain has become sensitized to the drug or the experience. Sensitization is different from tolerance. As tolerance develops, the addict needs more and more of a substance or porn to get a pleasant effect; as sensitization develops, he needs less and less of the substance to crave it intensely. So sensitization leads to increased wanting, though not necessarily liking. …

Pornography, by offering an endless harem of sexual objects, hyperactivates the appetitive system. Porn viewers develop new maps in their brains, based on the photos and videos they see. Because it is a use-it-or-lose-it brain, when we develop a map area, we long to keep it activated. Just as our muscles become impatient for exercise if we’ve been sitting all day, so too do our senses hunger to be stimulated.

The men at their computers looking at porn were uncannily like the rats in the cages of the NIH, pressing the bar to get a shot of dopamine or its equivalent. Though they didn’t know it, they had been seduced into pornographic training sessions that met all the conditions required for plastic change of brain maps. Since neurons that fire together, wire together these men got massive amounts of practice wiring these images into the pleasure centers of the brain, with the rapt attention necessary for plastic change. They imagined these images when away from their computers, or while having sex with their girlfriends, reinforcing them. …

Because plasticity is competitive, the brain maps for new, exciting images increased at the expense of what had previously attracted them – the reason, I believe, they began to find their girlfriends less of a turn-on.

IOW - porn screws up men's minds by wiring pathways together that cause men to be attracted by what they see in porn (i.e. misogyny, violence, face shots, deep throat, etc.) and not be attracted by what they don't see in porn (i.e. 'love', 'caring', 'compassion', long-term give and take relationships).

[wading out of the fray]
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 78
view profile
History
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/13/2016 11:06:24 PM

We arent in a court of law no classroom where empirical evidence is of limited access. You have the SAME ability i do to look up evidence.


Doesn't matter. You have the burden of proof when making a claim. When two parties are in a discussion and one asserts a claim that the other disputes, the one who asserts has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim. Why would you think I mean the legal burden of proof? When discussing ideas, it's the philosophical burden of proof that's relevant.



Ive been on the net a long time, long enough to know what the "prove" it claim is really about. I had one of the first atheist sites on the net way back in 1994. Christians were constantly screaming to "prove" what i claimed about the bible. They never opened it and looked just like everyone else did because it was REALLY about just ladeling work on someone as a deflection and annoyance method. And even when the proof WAS posted, they did exactly what you did: ignore the science and hop on something else because it didnt jive with their preconveived idea.


No, it's about taking responsibility for your own claims. If you can't back it up, don't make the claim. I can claim that I can walk through walls. So what? I didn't ignore the science because there is no science to ignore. For every opinion piece that says porn is unhealthy, there's another one that says it's healthy. The bottom line is that there have been sexual deviants since the beginning of time. How did they become deviants if they had no porn to corrupt them? Gert Hald and Neil Malamuth did studies concluding no negative side effects from watching pornography. Men and women can learn about sexuality from watching porn. You're talking about the difference between use and abuse. Anything can be abused. That doesn't make what you're abusing a bad thing.



I posted a ton of links of research, and all you have to hop on with all i posted is a small reference to "internet forums" when i mentioned a couple of communities who are based on the sexual entitlement complexes of men. That shows you didnt look at anything i posted, you made me do all that for nothing, so dont bother preaching again how i have a duty to back up a claim when you have demonstrated you dont WANT to look at evidence. You will ignore MYRIADS of links and grasp at straws (which i could also post links to as well, but why would i? You wont read them!)


Pot, meet kettle. You address none of the points people present to you. All you do is rant about your opinion. I deconstructed your fuzzy logic with common sense and basic logic and now you're sour grapes. Sorry, but we're not buying what you're selling anymore.



Lets get real honest here: this is REALLY about people hating to hear criticism of porn because most folks use it and hate to ponder their moral culpability in consuming what is essentially filmed prostitution. I had issues with that myself when i first learned these things, but what i did NOT do was sit there ignorantly ranting to protect my feelings and scream at people who offered up research because it gave me a guilt trip.


People hate hearing criticism of porn because it's the same nonsensical argument you hear about video games making people violent or heavy metal music inspiring people to commit suicide. It's complete rubbish. People do what they want to do, you can't blame entertainment.


An addict experiences cravings because his plastic brain has become sensitized to the drug or the experience. Sensitization is different from tolerance. As tolerance develops, the addict needs more and more of a substance or porn to get a pleasant effect; as sensitization develops, he needs less and less of the substance to crave it intensely. So sensitization leads to increased wanting, though not necessarily liking. …


You're talking about addiction to porn, not pornography itself. A man can be addicted to spanking the monkey without porn or addicted to gambling among other things. That doesn't prove anything other than he gets addicted to things and can't use them in moderation.


IOW - porn screws up men's minds by wiring pathways together that cause men to be attracted by what they see in porn (i.e. misogyny, violence, face shots, deep throat, etc.) and not be attracted by what they don't see in porn (i.e. 'love', 'caring', 'compassion', long-term give and take relationships).


If they weren't attracted to what they're watching before their brains are writing new pathways together, why were they watching that type of thing to begin with? It makes no sense for someone to watch something they don't find stimulating. It also operates under the false premise that all men are watching violent pornography that degrades women when a lot of it puts women on a pedestal and shows men as the slaves or submissive participants.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 79
view profile
History
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 3:31:50 AM

If there's an actual fear there, rather than having fun and speaking tongue in cheek, it doesn't speak well of one's self esteem/self worth when it comes to attracting good men. Additionally, it makes me wonder what one's definition of a "good man" is if he doesn't have the ability to relate well in all ways with living, breathing individuals of the opposite sex

This is a reasonable statement, but at the same time it is understandable that someone coming from an asexual perspective may be hypersenstive to, or at least somewhat confused by issues surrounding sex and relationships, regardless of self-esteem. I imagine it may be particularly difficult to avoid seeing sex as the overriding relationship goal of the opposite sex, since almost all prospective partners would judge it to be a necessary condition while they themselves do not. It may not be obvious that it is not a sufficient condition. Claims of wanting to develop emotional, intellectual and experiential bonds may seem naive, empty or manipulative, depending on the individuals' personal experience.

Anyway, once AI advances to the level that humans could actually be replaced in relationships without unacceptable loss, the question will have become moot anyway. I recommend the film Blade Runner to anyone who doesn't know what I mean.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 80
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 4:52:55 AM

Males who adhere to feminine gender roles aren't actually women - and the fact this even needs to be said shows how this society is under a massive sexist delusion. Women are adult humans whom had/have ovaries, they aren't merely a presentation of gender that a patriarchal culture has advocated. The fact is right now American girls are being told if they don't want to accept penis as female and get naked with any guy who claims to "feel" feminine, than she is a bigot, and can find herself the recipient of doxxing, threats, intimidation and violence. This isn't a feminist progressive stance - this is coopting of the female experience for men who have dysphoria or autogynephillia. This is an attack on women's protections, spaces and rights in the name of "political correct" like some Orwell novel: "war is peace, freedom is slavery" ya, and men are women now...

But that's just one of MANY ways feminism has become a complete joke via its hijacking by patriarchal capitalism. We are also currently being told than women signing up as combat units and going to kill other women's children for some rich man's profit is "feminism". Our society is all kinds of messed up... Just like we should make facsimiles of women's bodies to use as f*ck holes so men don't have to be troubled with socializing after the orgasm is over. And if you say this: whoa, you are a sex negative, repressed and sooooo not "progressive", cry the FAKE left of American capitalism (real lefties aren't capitalists to begin with).


This has all got very heavy since I last looked.
Some (genuine) questions:
1/. Are the males who are adhering to "feminine gender roles", adhering to to the "mere presentation" of the "roles advocated by the patriarchal culture"? (The existence of which, I don't dispute. - Blame religions for most of that)
If so, what roles would the women themselves choose? (For "real" females)
-I thought the whole point was to get away from such delineated "roles"
Eg. "priests" wear dresses too, but many of the people objecting, don't seem at all bothered by that.

2/. Women have been using facsimiles of male sex-organs since.... well before I can remember. (Or using whatever was a close approximation) They didn't even bother with the rest of the man.

So I don't think it's entirely 'fair' to be accusing men of using f*ck-holes, when women have been using f*ck-sticks themselves, for probably longer. (When were they first 'invented', and by whom? -And was it males or females?)

I'm not entirely convinced that gender, or even gender identity are as 'binary' a construct, as many would wish.
Many ancient cultures also had cross-dressing males, some who lived their entire lives as females, and were accepted as such. (Greeks, Egyptians, Indians, Even "native Americans". I really can't be bothered to research it, or provide "evidence") This has been going on a lot longer than just in "our society".

I don't think the males who feel this way, are at all "patriarchal", if anything, quite the opposite.

As far as porn goes, both genders have fantasies, and there are some attempts to address the female market, or possibly to exploit it, depending on your perspective.

I think as a species, humans struggle to 'rationalise' some aspects of our existence, which will always remain 'bestial'. (IMO)
That's not to say that I believe we should simply acquiesce to all such urges, eg., society has decided (largely, and by consensus) that violence in society is unacceptable, - unless performed by the state.

But my own experience has shown me that some females do like to be 'dominated', and/or even 'spanked'. This wasn't something which I instigated, and I have to say, I struggled to oblige. (It's not a fantasy of mine.)
One (very 'posh') woman, once confided that her masturbatory fantasy was to be raped by a "dirty old tramp". She had absolutely no wish for this to happen, in reality, but purely as a "safe thought-experiment".
Maybe I've just known some weird women.
Or maybe such fantasies are more common than many would admit..

Either way, my point is, that sex isn't such a polite act.
What happens in the bedroom (Or the kitchen, or on the stairs), stays in the bedroom.
If you (over) analyse it, the very act of penetration itself, could be viewed as the ultimate 'trespass', an invasion, a seizing of territory, all be it, temporarily.
ALL men are potential rapists, just as all men are potential murderers, or potential thieves.
Only a very small proportion fail to suppress these urges.

I don't think there's a huge difference between the genders, but physically, females are generally smaller, and weaker than males (On average), and until fairly recently, men have used their greater strength, to dominate.
Now that such violence is no longer 'socially acceptable' (in most 'civilised' societies) , some men struggle to "argue their cases", on an equal footing.

We're all just monkeys really, but monkeys who have evolved complicated rules.
There will always be problems with our 'animal instincts'.

Sex is a base, animal instinct.
"Tastes", (NPI) and/or masturbatory fantasies, vary enormously, between individuals.
"One man's/woman's meat, is another man's/woman's poison" etc.

I don't think there's much point in criticising another person's sexual preferences, or choices, - unless they're trying to "ram it down your throat".

A "Robo-shag" wouldn't be my 'thing', but meh.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 11/19/2013
Msg: 81
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 6:47:38 AM
You never posted a SINGLE link to despute ANYTHING i posted, all you did was blather how feminists may as well believe in aliens because YOU fail to see any oppression in the west.

What is there to say? If you honestly think sexism doesnt exist then you are a f*cking ignorant moron, its REALLY that simple with the mountain of evidence out there regarding statistics of violence, poverty and sexual assaults. I would post a million links showing it, but you wouldnt read one, just like you havent read any thus far.

Lecture me about how to debate? When you come back with counter evidence (not just blathering like an ego maniac) to EVERY study i posted showing how they are wrong, then you get to lecture me, until then you will be disregarded as an angry ranting sexually frustrated man-child who laughingly confuses priviledge with sexual access because you dont have the intellectual fortitude to ponder for a second WHY the phenomena even occurs since your penis gets in the way.

Please start with studying neurology because your last statement about how one must receive pleasure out of what they are watching in the first place shows me you havent read the most elementary things about psychology. Pavlov was running experiments about stimuli correlation almost 100 years ago now, catch the hell up.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 11/19/2013
Msg: 82
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 7:10:57 AM

Are the males who are adhering to "feminine gender roles", adhering to to the "mere presentation" of the "roles advocated by the patriarchal culture"? (The existence of which, I don't dispute. - Blame religions for most of that) if so, what roles would real females choose


Gender roles vary from culture and era. The civilizations resulting from abrahamic traditions are influenced from thousands of years of patriarchal religion and the material restraints of their economies. As to what roles women would choose we have to look at cultures not influenced by patriarchy, which are very small and pocketed, and then we look at primate societies. When looking at those, the answer is: gender barely exists as a social phenomena in those areas. In fact, outside of the constraints that come with body differences, there is little difference at all between men and women. (Such as, female gorillas will engage in stick play which men dont, because men dont need to practice cradling infants to their breasts)


Women have been using facsimiles of male sex-organs since.... well before I can remember. (Or using whatever was a close approximation) They didn't even bother with the rest of the man.


Its true, women do utilize and have for thousands of years used lingams to simulate ritualistic marriage to the gods. We later see them use it for simply sexual pleasure. Just as men used their hands. The question becomes: is there is a difference between a penetrative object and or hand, which still forces one to use their imagination, over an entire fascimile of a human that people have been known to build entire false relationships with? Is this healthy for the person? How will it effect how they treat others? What if it becomes a main stream behavior? How will it effect society when its standardized? We dont know for sure, but we DO know from porn studies that the likelihood is there will be a problem.


Many ancient cultures also had cross-dressing males, some who lived their entire lives as females, and were accepted as such. (Greeks, Egyptians, Indians, Even "native Americans". I really can't be bothered to research it, or provide "evidence") This has been going on a lot longer than just in "our society".


the oldest evidence we have of transgenderism is dated from prague 5,000 years ago. Interesting to note we ONLY see transgenderism in societies with strict gender lines, its absent in cultures without it. Note how the sioux had trans folk AFTER encountering the west and being forced into a new patriarchal economy, but we NEVER seen transgederism among the apache because they are raised gender less, women do EXACTLY what men do, minu child bearing/breast feeding.


some females do like to be 'dominated', and/or even 'spanked'.

Studies show most women like this. But we havent studied sexuality in NON patriarchal societies and we dont see other primates practice fetishistic behaviors. So the question becomes: is this an offshoot of the natural desire for women to have strong sperm donors to benefit their offspring? Or is this an internalization of patriarchy? Because women DO internalize it in a myriad of other ways.

Thanks for the logical discussion
 memtoo
Joined: 9/3/2016
Msg: 83
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 7:15:26 AM
Blasphemous, I have only a few moments to post before the pitifully inept mods terminate, but you are one angry woman. Even your photo rage. Pity...you look like you coold be pretty if you gave you self a chance.

You can find virtually any study you want to allegedly prove what you want to try to prove. In the end, the issue is the motivations of those putting out the study....so absent more info...your opinions remain opinions, not scientific fact.

Here is my opinion...all due respect...seek therapy for your rage. Living a life with perpetual anger will do you nor your loved ones any good.
 memtoo
Joined: 9/3/2016
Msg: 84
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 7:18:20 AM
And who gives a damn about Transgender people, etc. Why do you care? Why not just worry about your life and not worry about how others live. This is a free country. Freedom of thought. You go your way, let others go theirs
Geeze, talk about intolerance.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 85
view profile
History
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 9:33:40 AM

You never posted a SINGLE link to despute ANYTHING i posted, all you did was blather how feminists may as well believe in aliens because YOU fail to see any oppression in the west.

What is there to say? If you honestly think sexism doesnt exist then you are a f*cking ignorant moron, its REALLY that simple with the mountain of evidence out there regarding statistics of violence, poverty and sexual assaults. I would post a million links showing it, but you wouldnt read one, just like you havent read any thus far.


No, it has nothing to do with my personal opinion about women and oppression. The fact is that there is no oppression in the West. All you did was engage in ad honinem logical fallacies like a butt hurt teenager that plays Counterstrike. There is no "mountain of evidence" that proves feminism. The gender pay gap is a myth. If women got paid less than men, companies would only hire women to save money. There is no rape culture in the West. Rapists go to jail. The problem is that feminists don't like free speech. The proof if in the pudding. When you come into contact with someone with different ideas than yours, you start swearing and name calling. Feminists care more about what you are than what you say. In reality, what you did was prove that feminism is a threat to free speech like it is on campuses across the Western world.


Lecture me about how to debate? When you come back with counter evidence (not just blathering like an ego maniac) to EVERY study i posted showing how they are wrong, then you get to lecture me, until then you will be disregarded as an angry ranting sexually frustrated man-child who laughingly confuses priviledge with sexual access because you dont have the intellectual fortitude to ponder for a second WHY the phenomena even occurs since your penis gets in the way.


It's painfully obvious that you don't know the basics of debate in a public forum when you use logical fallacies as if they give you credibility. I did come back with normative evidence and referenced studies. Why would you think I'm angry or sexually frustrated? Am I the one swearing, name calling and throwing a tantrum? You're getting yourself mixed up with me. What privilege are you talking about? By nature, women have more social value than men but you're quiet silent about that because it doesn't fit your nutty feminist narrative. A movement that violently opposes freedom of speech is not constructive. Feminists on college campuses tear down posters of any speakers who dare to challenge it.


Please start with studying neurology because your last statement about how one must receive pleasure out of what they are watching in the first place shows me you havent read the most elementary things about psychology. Pavlov was running experiments about stimuli correlation almost 100 years ago now, catch the hell up.


You still have no answer as to why a man would be watching something he doesn't like when he wants to pleasure himself. Do you really think horny men are surfing the net looking for things that don't turn them on?
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 10:27:03 AM

I recommend the film Blade Runner to anyone who doesn't know what I mean.

Unfortunately that movie effectively doesn't exist anymore. Sad because it's one of the best movies of all time in my opinion.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 11/19/2013
Msg: 87
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 2:04:24 PM
Either construct a post in which you show data to counter EVERY study I posted: or be regarded as nothing more than a troll - there's nothing more to say until you begin to conduct yourself the SAME WAY you demand of others.
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 88
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 2:58:08 PM
Mr. Coma.....

"If they weren't attracted to what they're watching before their brains are writing new pathways together, why were they watching that type of thing to begin with? It makes no sense for someone to watch something they don't find stimulating. It also operates under the false premise that all men are watching violent pornography that degrades women when a lot of it puts women on a pedestal and shows men as the slaves or submissive participants."

And...

"why a man would be watching something he doesn't like when he wants to pleasure himself. Do you really think horny men are surfing the net looking for things that don't turn them on?"



Do you think what you "like" doesn't change? Humans can't/don't change their behaviors?



Ever heard of shaping by successive approximation?

Have you got a "Coma" theory better than B. F. Skinner's ?


If so.....please share. Would be very interested. :)
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 89
view profile
History
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 3:21:53 PM

Either construct a post in which you show data to counter EVERY study I posted: or be regarded as nothing more than a troll - there's nothing more to say until you begin to conduct yourself the SAME WAY you demand of others.


I already referenced a study that concluded porn has zero negative side effects. Did you forget about it already? If anyone's trolling, it's you. I don't see anyone else swearing and name calling. You know that modern feminism is nonsense and that's why you attack people that criticize it. The only way to defend it is to silence the people that expose it. You also seem to forget that you were the one making claims that required evidence.


Do you think what you "like" doesn't change? Humans can't/don't change their behaviors?

Ever heard of shaping by successive approximation?

Have you got a "Coma" theory better than B. F. Skinner's ?


Sure, lots of things change. People discover what they like and what they don't like. Some people get addicted to things and some lose interest. A person that likes softcore might discover he likes hardcore instead, and a person that likes hardcore might discover he actually likes softcore. As for successive approximation, it's completely irrelevant. Successive approximation is a series of rewards that provide positive reinforcement for behavior changes that are successive steps towards the "final desired behavior". Who decides what the final desired behaviour is? That has to do with conditioning people and animals through progressive rewards. In order for that to be relevant to porn, a person would require a predetermined goal with negative consequences. It's as silly as an alcoholic writing down: "I desire to be a raging alcoholic" before they have their first drink. A person could use porn or alcohol for decades before it becomes an addiction or before they lose interest in it. It's the person that makes the choice the abuse something, it's not the alcohol or porn that's to blame.
 yetttoo
Joined: 9/7/2016
Msg: 90
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 3:23:28 PM
^^^^I would guess that Pornography is not the type of things that grows on you. Not to say I don't enjoy looking at in once in a blue moon . . . but it generally is not very interesting to me . . . any more than it was interesting to me when I was a young guy in my twenties when I can remember thinking about sex almost all of my waking hours. So personally, I'm not buying the BS about Porno.

My guess, and I have not read the studies pointed out by the angry-one, is that there is a religious bias supporting the anti-porno movement. I agree with Coma. If you are not interested, you are not going to bother with it in the first place. If you are only mildly interested . . . a category I would put myself, you might look at it once in a very blue moon.

I can honestly say that when I have used my fantasy imagination.... it was always imaginging with a clean-cut, lean, athletic looking woman with long hair. I do not remember Porn ever entering my imagination, and do not recall ever using or thinking about Porm to enhance my imagination. That's just me of course, but since I am this way, I am guessing most guys are this way.

In the end, I am most attracted to women with classy women with clothes on, who look strong and healthy, not sweaty women who dress like sluts. Give me a good looking woman with a nice pair of genes and a nice blouse any day over a woman in a thong bikini.

My guess is Blasphamous has some really bad experiences, and is tarring the general male population with very limited events. . . perhaps that is why she rants in here and looks so gosh darn angry in her photos.
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 91
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 3:32:27 PM




Either construct a post in which you show data to counter EVERY study I posted


As far as porn goes, there are studies that "prove" that are a number of problems associated with porn and, for each and everyone of those studies, there is usually another one that "proves", not only there is no such problem but, that porn is actually good.

When it comes to porn, there are good arguments on both sides of the fence. Personally, I lean towards the old saying... too much of anything is probably bad for you. In moderation, there may actually be some benefits to it. For instance...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201001/pornography-beneficial-or-detrimental
http://www.womenshealthmag.com/sex-and-love/watching-porn-together
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/11/11/does-pornography-deserve-its-bad-rap/pornography-can-be-good-for-consumers

Just like robotic women or robotic men, porn can't replace the real thing.
 yetagainst
Joined: 9/7/2016
Msg: 92
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 4:06:58 PM
^^^ which goes to show what I said. . . consider the source of the study . . . who paid for it and what was their ulterior motive. The angry one has her own motives for giving the opinions she gives . . . likely a victim at some time in her life, and now all men are bad.
 kj521
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 93
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 4:17:27 PM
"That has to do with conditioning people and animals through progressive rewards. In order for that to be relevant to porn, a person would require a predetermined goal with negative consequences. It's as silly as an alcoholic writing down: "I desire to be a raging alcoholic" before they have their first drink. A person could use porn or alcohol for decades before it becomes an addiction or before they lose interest in it. It's the person that makes the choice the abuse something, it's not the alcohol or porn that's to blame."


Mr. Coma! You really make me smile sometimes. And this time you made me really laugh out loud! :D

You know why? Cause I do so enjoy observing the way your mind works. Not gonna lie, though, you don't think outside the box much.


Let me ask you this. Do you think behavior change caused by shaping or conditioning can ever occur naturally? Or only in controlled settings? Do you think Skinner just one day decided to play with some pigeons to see what he could get them to do? Then do some practicing on humans?

Human behaviors and their adaptability have always occurred.....smart people just came along and decided to study them, identify them, and figure out under what conditions modifications do and do not occur.

And.....developemental stages factor greatly into the mix....amongst many other variables.

The point is, Mr. Coma....the effects of porn on an individual's behavior is much more complicated than your dismissive attitude suggests.



A PUA.....does not a Behaviorist make. :)

Psst......I never set out to like broccoli, either.....but here I am today....loving it! ;)
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 94
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 4:47:32 PM

The fact is that there is no oppression in the West.

Prove your claim...

The gender pay gap is a myth.

Prove your claim... (Hint: "If women got paid less than men, companies would only hire women to save money." is an assertion, not a proof no matter how much you claim iot to be "common sense" (which isn't a proof either))...

There is no rape culture in the West.

Prove your claim... (a similar hint applies here as well)...

Doesn't matter. You have the burden of proof when making a claim. When two parties are in a discussion and one asserts a claim that the other disputes, the one who asserts has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim. Why would you think I mean the legal burden of proof? When discussing ideas, it's the philosophical burden of proof that's relevant.


It's painfully obvious that you don't know the basics of debate in a public forum when you use logical fallacies as if they give you credibility.



Are you setting yourself up for yet another...

"You haven't proved anyth.... *thud*"

... experience...?

Sure looks that way to me...





"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life."

Frank Zappa
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 95
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History
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 8:15:22 PM

Mr. Coma! You really make me smile sometimes. And this time you made me really laugh out loud! :D

You know why? Cause I do so enjoy observing the way your mind works. Not gonna lie, though, you don't think outside the box much.

Let me ask you this. Do you think behavior change caused by shaping or conditioning can ever occur naturally? Or only in controlled settings? Do you think Skinner just one day decided to play with some pigeons to see what he could get them to do? Then do some practicing on humans?

Human behaviors and their adaptability have always occurred.....smart people just came along and decided to study them, identify them, and figure out under what conditions modifications do and do not occur.

And.....developemental stages factor greatly into the mix....amongst many other variables.

The point is, Mr. Coma....the effects of porn on an individual's behavior is much more complicated than your dismissive attitude suggests.


I don't think the effects are complicated at all. No more than the effects of playing a video game or having a glass or wine. Of course conditioning and adaptation can take place anywhere, but that doesn't mean watching porn is bad for people. A person that plays video games with violence doesn't need to keep playing more and more violent games. They don't need to go to a gun range to get the same enjoyment a month later. They're not conditioning themselves to shoot their neighbour. They just enjoy playing games. The same goes for watching porn or having a drink. Having a glass of wine before bed doesn't mean you're conditioning yourself to be a heroin junky by next year. Maybe the person just enjoys wine.



A PUA.....does not a Behaviorist make. :)

Psst......I never set out to like broccoli, either.....but here I am today....loving it! ;)


That's exactly my point. There is no conditioning happening if there's no goal and no series of rewards directed at that goal. Your tastes just change and evolve over time. There was no series of rewards aimed at the goal of eating broccoli one day. You just like it.

People are afraid to stand up to all the social justice warriors and feminists because they know they'll get called bigots and misogynists. All of these ideas like video games making people violent, heavy metal causing suicides and porn turning men into sexual deviants with erectile dysfunction are nonsense. Like I pointed out earlier, modern feminism has nothing to do with equality, such as allowing women to vote. It spreads lies and misinformation while completing ignoring women that are actually suffering in other parts of the world. The bottom line is that things like porn, gambling, drinking, video games, etc aren't bad. The problem is people misusing them.
 justdeb111a
Joined: 9/4/2016
Msg: 96
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History
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 9:23:14 PM

In reality, what you did was prove that feminism is a threat to free speech like it is on campuses across the Western world.


*blink*

Um.....feminism is one of the enforcers of the Constitution/Bill of Rights.

Without feminists women would still not be able to vote, own property without the permission of her husband (still can't in Louisiana--Napoleonic Law there), work in a field not traditionally feminine (physicians, bankers, lawyers, elected public official, teacher (originally schoolmasters) theater (originally all male actors), carpenter, draftsman, etc), or work at all outside of the home, get a bank loan (not that long ago you were danged if you were married (husband's permission) and danged if you were single (poor financial risk) nor would you be able to use birthcontrol methods (early 20th century abject poverty because even the rhythm method was forbidden to be taught to a woman, married or not).

The rights that we all have are because of our own efforts as well as the efforts of others to gain theirs.

I am only 62 and let me tell you, it was no picnic getting to the place where we are now. I remember so much horrible, outright discrimination against girls in highschool and college--and we were expected to smile, nod and take it. Cannot let the dark ages return.
 BlasphemousBombshell
Joined: 11/19/2013
Msg: 97
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/14/2016 11:33:04 PM
But it has been declared that believing sexism exists in the west is just as rational as believing reptile aliens control the government. Never mind the MOUNTAIN of data showing systematic inequality going back to the advent of agriculture. Never mind ALL your lived experiences AS a western woman. What REALLY matters is that a MALE who hasnt lived as a woman nor as long as you, says sexism doesnt exist, so CLEARLY his opinion should trump your experience is ironic proof that chauvinism isnt real.

Now go fix a man a sandwhich and dont forget to smile while ya do it! Cause your job is to be pretty, not have opinions drawn from experience about advanced topics ya silly woman, you let the smart menfolk do that. You have a demure little "lady brain". *teehee*
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 98
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History
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/15/2016 12:10:39 AM

But it has been declared that believing sexism exists in the west is just as rational as believing reptile aliens control the government. Never mind the MOUNTAIN of data showing systematic inequality going back to the advent of agriculture. Never mind ALL your lived experiences AS a western woman. What REALLY matters is that a MALE who hasnt lived as a woman nor as long as you, says sexism doesnt exist, so CLEARLY his opinion should trump your experience is ironic proof that chauvinism isnt real.


If you're going to reference something I said, at least get it right. I said it's worse than believing in reptilian shape shifters. The only thing worse is the body positivity movement. Where is the "mountain of data" supporting the nonsense from modern feminist like the gender wage gap? Why would personal experience mean something is true? People think they see ghosts, they think psychics can read their mind, they think homeopathic medicine can cure them, etc. Personal experience shouldn't be barometer of truth. I'm not interesting in giving my opinion or hearing opinions, I'm interested in what's true.


Now go fix a man a sandwhich and dont forget to smile while ya do it! Cause your job is to be pretty, not have opinions drawn from experience about advanced topics ya silly woman, you let the smart menfolk do that. You have a demure little "lady brain". *teehee*


You definitely have enough salt to make a few sandwiches.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 99
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History
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/15/2016 1:08:03 AM

I'm interested in what's true.

Here is a story linked to data showing younger women in Australia are facing significantly less discrimination in getting pay rises than older women. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160905130017.htm

I just happened to have glanced at this last week and thought you both might be interested in the generational factor.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 100
OK, I'm starting to feel afraid
Posted: 9/15/2016 4:42:26 AM

Where is the "mountain of data" supporting the nonsense from modern feminist like the gender wage gap?

Ummm... YOU are the one that simply declared the wage gap to be a myth...

And NOW "Mr. Wonder logic" is demanding that others disprove his UNPROVEN claim...?

My oh my, what ever happened to "It's on you to prove your claims"...?

Is that a condition that ONLY applies to things you disagree with...? It never applies to YOUR claims...?

Hardly surprising from a typical alt-right bigot...



"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life."

Frank Zappa
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