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 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 601
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Prejudice versus short men online dating.Page 25 of 25    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25)
"When I talk about a man being short, I am not talking about his height in terms of my own; I am talking about his height in terms of other men. A man who is 5'6 is a short man, despite the fact that he is taller than a woman who is 5'1."

Admittedly my posts are annoyingly long and stuff often gets lost to the average POF reader, but I actually said almost exactly that, nearly word-for-word, in the very next paragraph after the one you quoted, so I understand why short men are considered "short" in general. My question to her was more about her specifically, as she suggested that a man less than 5'10" (which is, of course, exactly the average height of men) would be short to her, for dating purposes, even though that's 9 inches taller than her.

Not that it's even necessarily something she can answer because determining why we are attracted to certain characteristics is usually easier said than done because so much of it is subconscious (why was I obsessed with redheads for much of my youth? I have no idea), but I continue to find it interesting that women almost universally agree (despite this "opposites attract" mythology) that the most important consideration when it comes to dating is commonalities, and scientific research agrees: the vast majority of couples involve similar people, by age, ethnicity, religion, body type, etc., although common interests in these couples aren't as strong as some people would like to believe, if for no other reason because by the very law of evolutionary socialization, men and women frequently have gender-specific interests, no matter how sexist some might feel that sounds.

But there is one single exception to all of this: short women are overwhelmingly not attracted to short men. So with her I was trying to come to some understanding why that would be true, especially since her father is short (as statistically, women usually do end up with someone similar to their fathers as well). A lot of short women have tall fathers and brothers, so them I better understand, but when the most important man in the first portion of your life is short and yet you still grow up to look down on short men -- I mean unless, he was mean or abusive or worthless or generally absent, I just don't get how that happens -- at least as often as it happens. Again, ultimately there are many things we will never understand about what we find attractive. I guess I'm just lucky I didn't somehow end up with an attraction for tall women (just to clarify, height really doesn't matter to me at all, but for practical efficiency reasons, I just look at tall attractive women for a second, then move on -- it has nothing to do with me NOT finding tall women attractive. I mean, for God's sake -- nearly all of the world's supermodels are tall! The day I reject the interest of a supermodel -- that'll be the day!).
 lulz567
Joined: 7/6/2018
Msg: 602
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the women may get short, the men may be short, but the posts are long
Posted: 7/17/2018 4:19:20 PM
We don’t know where the men have been either but deal with it. It’s an excuse to control a women. Contraception is in a neighbourhood near you. If I got pregnant then I will check my calendar. He doesn’t need to work out who is the lucky guy, I’m sure most sprint like Linford Christie anyway.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 603
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the women may get short, the men may be short, but the posts are long
Posted: 7/17/2018 7:00:46 PM

MeramecRiverRat
But one common fallacy by liberals is the claim the women who work at Walmart and at fast food joints NEED to receive welfare handouts in addition to their paychecks. The people who seek higher minimum wage (usually $15 or more) often make this claim. In reality, anyone can live gainfully on $8 per hour working 30 hours per week.

In my 8 years on these forums, I have seen some really crazy things posted. This just may be the worst. You not only pegged the crazy-meter, you pegged it so hard you bent the needle.

I am not going to bother to refute your craziness. Anyone with an IQ above room temperature knows that it is NOT possible to live on $240 a week, pay rent, buy food, find transportation, etc, etc, etc. Never mind go to the doctor, the dentist, find clothes to wear,

Your ignorance and prejudice disgusts me. I’ll just leave it at that.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 604
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Prejudice versus short men online dating.
Posted: 7/17/2018 7:07:59 PM

For climate reasons, there are really only 3 choices in the US: [Miami, Hawaii, and So-Cal]

Ummm, no, there's not only 3 choices for decent weather. Seriously. If you honestly think that, I think it's a reflection that you're missing a lot of things related to the dating/social scene as a whole.

so I understand why short men are considered "short" in general. My question to her was more about her specifically, as she suggested that a man less than 5'10" (which is, of course, exactly the average height of men) would be short to her, for dating purposes, even though that's 9 inches taller than her.

To some gals, short = not "tall". Like under 6 foot to many of them. That said, few are short women, so you don't need to worry about that trend, but usually gals who are above average female height, or not short but live in a tall area, where the average white male can easily be 5'11".

But there is one single exception to all of this: short women are overwhelmingly not attracted to short men. So with her I was trying to come to some understanding why that would be true, especially since her father is short

Because it's Not so much how you compare to HER height -- you just need to be at least as tall as her in the shoes you both wear as the minimum -- but how You Compare To Other Guys In The Room. That's something people miss out on. After you pass the expected bare minimum (vs her height) -- the real focal point is how you size up vs other potential catches.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 605
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Prejudice versus short men online dating.
Posted: 7/18/2018 3:15:07 PM
So basically you need to go where there aren't very many other men in the room and lots of women. NOT ONLINE

I whine sometimes about a comparable thing. Overweight guys not wanting to get with overweight women.
 sun___flower
Joined: 5/8/2015
Msg: 606
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Prejudice versus short men online dating.
Posted: 7/18/2018 3:27:24 PM
Hawking
and stuff often gets lost to the average POF reader

And here I thought I was an above-average POF reader. ;-)

but I actually said almost exactly that, nearly word-for-word, in the very next paragraph after the one you quoted

So you did. I apologize, Hawking.
 SiennaBear2
Joined: 12/2/2017
Msg: 607
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Prejudice versus short men online dating.
Posted: 7/19/2018 7:58:01 AM
HawkingJr: Well my ex was tall and I guess I got used to it so when I dated someone shorter and the first date didn't work out and he stalked me online for a few months and I thought to myself I would avoid dating short guys. He was also younger than me so I thought I would avoid that to. Then when my boyfriend messaged me his profile just stood out to me, he seemed nice and cute and I just couldn't ignore him ;)
Nothing stood out to me on his profile as a red flag so yeah we just messaged then after my cruise I added him to facebook and we started dating :3
He doesn't feel short being around him, he is a good height in my opinion. He's also really strong and does MMA.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 608
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Prejudice versus short men online dating.
Posted: 7/19/2018 12:25:30 PM

So basically you need to go where there aren't very many other men in the room and lots of women. NOT ONLINE

There is somewhat a difference between using the word "short" or "shorter" on someone compared to others of their gender in general... vs Attraction based on other guys in the room. IRL, you're truly getting a sense of it dealing with attraction. If he sticks out as shorter than the other guys, despite him having a leg-up on her in height (and build), she will lack attraction unless something else really sticks out 'above' most other guys in the room.

Online it's a #s game. You see the height #, and it's how one feels they would "measure up". Human assumption error (and input error by the guy) plays a role there. From my 2nd-hand experience, short guys do better IRL vs online. IRL, if mingling, he's not so much "in the crowd" in comparison as much -- and he could be in a place where there's not a lot of tall guys. Get a short guy to go to a bar with a lot of tall dudes -- his chances are a lot slimmer to get a gal's # in that circle.

I whine sometimes about a comparable thing. Overweight guys not wanting to get with overweight women.

I think it's different, though. If they were fittingly comparable -- it'd be that even Very Overweight guys wouldn't want any gals who were on the notably plump side VS other gals in the area, even when he's Way more overweight than she. That's not the case, as it doesn't go That far.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 609
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Prejudice versus short men online dating.
Posted: 7/19/2018 3:56:20 PM
“Well my ex was tall and I guess I got used to it”

I’ve heard quite a few short women say that. Basically it’s the height equivalent of, once you go black, you can never go back, or: once you go tall, you’ll never go small! Which is another reason why, I suppose, dating worked out somewhat better in my 20s than my 40s: a lot of the women (girls) I dated had very little dating experience at all, much less “tall man” experience. I was my ex-girlfriend’s first boyfriend, and the first guy she dated after me was a foot taller than me, and she just kept getting taller and taller after that! (She’s about my height.) She and her current husband, who must be 6’5”, look ridiculous together. To me, anyway. I guess most people are so used to seeing really tall men with much shorter women, they’ve normalized it.

“so when I dated someone shorter and the first date didn't work out and he stalked me online for a few months and I thought to myself I would avoid dating short guys.”

Again, obviously we all form many prejudices from our early dating experiences, but really, to broad stroke all short guys because ONE stalked you? Surely there have never been tall stalkers? Ted Bundy would probably beg to differ. Of course, I’ve seen women declare crazy things like “I’m never dating another Mike again because my first boyfriend was a Mike and he was an ahole!” I suppose if you want to eliminate 5% of the male population because of one bad Mike, then that’s your right, but seems mighty silly and possibly destructive for your love opportunities.

I suppose I’m really no better, because there are all kinds of dating experiences I’d strongly prefer not to have again and associate them with certain types of women that maybe it’s unfair to associate with them, but obviously I’m not in the same position as you and most other women (especially young women) as it doesn’t matter what I’d prefer and not prefer – I just have to date whomever I find attractive that will date me because I don’t have any real options. But I still think with me and obese women, there’s a lot of practical issues in making such a couple work that go beyond simple attraction issues (can’t get my arms around them, have few or no fitness or diet commonalities, etc.) and they’re pretty much universal with obesity, so I hardly see how it’s on the same level as one short guy treated me badly so all short guys must be bad. It’s more on the level of, well, one obese woman treated me badly so all obese women must be bad – but that’s not true at all. I don’t think any of the obese women I dated treated me badly (most quite the opposite, although a couple were definitely certifiably insane, but that was also true of some of the skinny ones!), but I was not attracted to any of them and did not enjoy being with any of them (which is really all that matters). Was that a prejudice held over from the first obese woman? I doubt it, since I didn’t want to date her before I dated her either. I’m sure somebody will claim it’s the same as what you’re talking about with short men, but I don’t really see how it is.

“So basically you need to go where there aren't very many other men in the room and lots of women.”

Yeah, I don’t know how well that’s going to work out. Put me in a room with a dozen single women for an hour, and they’ll look at their watches/phones and talk among themselves for an hour until they can go somewhere else where men they actually find attractive are. This is a true story. I mean, unless these women are FORCED to pick some guy or the ONE guy in the room, they will always know there are much better options in the future and somewhere else, unless they're among the most desperate or inexperienced women on earth. The only exception might be if they were fall down drunk.

“NOT ONLINE”

Certainly that is the truth about online, although the bigger problem with online is that I’m actually telling the truth about myself, whereas I’m competing with thousands of liars – the ones making themselves even MORE superior to me by lying about their height, age, body type, income or whatever are bad enough, but the worst ones are the ones telling the truth about all those things (because they’re desirable men) but lying about their relationship status. As most of you women are aware, a very large percentage of men on here are married or have serious significant others, and the really attractive men on here that aren’t pure scams make up a highly disproportionate number of those non-single guys – and furthermore there are quite a few attractive, actually single guys just stringing along dozens of women at a time, because they can. All of these guys distract women who might otherwise be interested in me, because either they’re “one guy at a time” women (even if the man is “many women at a time” guy) or because they don’t have time to bother with this “okay short guy” when so many “tall hot rich guys” are contacting them. So that makes online an even more uphill battle compared to the real world than it would be if every guy was honest and only dated one woman at a time.

Yet at the same time... single women that will date someone with my characteristics are extremely rare – I mean, like one out of every 1000 women. Finding them in real life situations is borderline impossible – even when I worked in the service industry, I rarely met 1000 new women in a month, much less 1000 new SINGLE women. I live in an area with some 2 million women within about an hour’s drive, but how often do I hang out in places an hour from me? In that sense, online is actually a far more efficient way to meet women, despite how skewed it is against me, because every day OLD sites serve me up dozens of potential new possibilities that I would almost certainly never meet in my regular daily routine, in some cases just because of negative random chance but in most cases because they live too far away for either of us to be regularly within the vicinity of the other. Back when I was young enough to get online dates, the vast majority of them lived more than 20 miles from me – the women willing to date somebody like this are very randomly scattered all over a 60 mile radius and OLD finds all of these needles in a haystack for me.

Or it did, until I got too old.

“Ummm, no, there's not only 3 choices for decent weather.”

I grew up around 33 degrees north. Every year of my childhood I spent October through March mostly sick. I’ve lived around 27 degrees north for the past 20 years. I might get truly sick once or twice year, very briefly – I have actually not been sick for over a year (jinxing myself). Nearly every time I visit 33 degrees north or above (especially like as far north as NYC) during the winter, I get sick, although somehow I did not this past holiday season in Alabama even though it was like 20 degrees the entire time, but that was pure luck. Point is, I’m definitely not living anywhere north of 33 degrees, and I don’t trust anything above my current line of latitude. Even SE Texas (God knows I don’t want to live in Texas period), which is almost on the same line of latitude as Tampa, is highly untrustworthy in the winter, probably because it’s on the opposite end of the Gulf Stream.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 610
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Prejudice versus short men online dating.
Posted: 7/19/2018 4:17:19 PM
Lol, I said that to a guy once on pof, that I could never go out with another Mike ever again.
 cindi_rella
Joined: 7/25/2016
Msg: 611
the women may get short, the men may be short, but the posts are long
Posted: 7/21/2018 7:07:01 PM

anyone can live gainfully on $8 per hour working 30 hours a week

Maybe if youre a college student living at home, not paying rent or a car payment or other bills. In NJ, you wont be able to rent even a cheap apartment if you make so little money. Rent in a shitty area like Trenton will cost $700-$800 minimum.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 612
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the women may get short, the men may be short, but the posts are long
Posted: 7/21/2018 11:09:38 PM
That would be $960 a month gross but maybe $850 after taxes. Yeah right. Rent alone is about $900, utilities maybe $300 and then there's vehicle insurance, maintenance and gas which comes to about $900 a month. Add in the cell phone bill and internet which is $140 a month. And that doesn't even include food ($600
minimum), household supplies and toiletries ($50), childcare ($600) cable and debt repayment or savings for an emergency. My takehome income is $3500 a month and if I didn't have legal fees or outstanding debts to pay off I would be ok. But $950 a month? Tgat's not a liveable wage.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 613
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Prejudice versus short men online dating.
Posted: 8/3/2018 9:27:21 AM
NG wrote:
notably plump side VS other gals in the area,
So why are gals compared to others "in the area," while guys are compared to others "in the room?" I see an unfair comparison basis here.

Julystorm22 wrote:

So basically you need to go where there aren't very many other men in the room and lots of women.
...Or he could try to force his way into a phone booth if he sees an attractive woman in one and try to see how he compares to other guys in the phone booth. Or try to find one of those slanted rooms, like in the carnival, and stand in the right place. Of course, you'd have to get the woman to stand in the right place too.

And if you're a woman, try to find men who compare you to other women "in the room," not "in the area." I think an "area" would be a much larger expanse, thus more women to compete with.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 614
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Prejudice versus short men online dating.
Posted: 8/3/2018 9:35:28 AM
Hawking:
but Atlanta’s 90 miles away and there’s a whole lot of backwardness in between
Yes. In defense of the south though, I've been living outside the South for decades now....and I've observed plenty of "backwardness" in other places I've lived, to be sure. Just as bad as in the South, really. Including racial attitudes. In my own neighborhood a mixed race couple got a nasty anonymous note...and they moved out within a year. Here in deep blue IL, home of Lincoln and Dirksen.


It’s weird I lived so close to them and even rode a bus with them for so many years, and never had a single conversation with a one of them
Oddly, it's much more segregated here up north. In small towns down south there is a bit of forced segregation, after all, there's usually only one Wal Mart in town. Growing up, I worked side by side with many black people as peers, or under black bosses, in factories or construction crews.


They grew up there during the Depression and have a tough-as-nails attitude about life. If they could survive far worse, why not their son?
And most folks stayed in familiar areas, with friends and family. Kinda the same dynamic as to why all these black athletes stay in the South to make those schools so powerful in college sports - thus rewarding and enriching the very states that enslaved their ancestors, and the states that still have the most persistent racism, and try to disenfranchise them as voters.


On a side note, the subject lines are a pretty interesting indicator of contributor interest. In my previous post, I changed the subject line back to the original one, and every post since then has used the "new" subject line that was in the several posts before mine, meaning nobody hit "reply" to my post
I don't think this means anything. I don't type my replies online, I move them to word, then just click on *any* "reply" and post. I've lost too many posts to post directly online.


The only exception might be if they were fall down drunk.
True. Just hang out where there are women who are falling down drunk, anticipate when and where they're about to fall down, and deftly fall on the floor first to cushion their fall. Presto, you have a drunk woman on top of you, not a bad place to be.


I mean, I haven’t even started going bald (got my bald brother beat there, but I’d take his height over my hair any day of the week)
Maybe you should leverage your strengths - in this case, hair - to grow a modest afro. This would add some height, or at least the illusion of height. I used to joke, back in the day, that about 5" of my height was hair. If this was the '70's hair height exaggeration would be a serious point of contention here, with many threads dedicated to the lies of hair height/total height exaggeration. "He showed up at the coffee meet, and even though he looked tall, I could just tell he was only really 5'8" instead of 6'1" because 5" of his height was hair!!!"
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