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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?      Home login  
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 apriloveswhiteroses
Joined: 7/28/2018
Msg: 7801
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?Page 313 of 357    (299, 300, 301, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 333, 334, 335, 336, 337, 338, 339)

Florida is about to gain from 600,000 to 1.2 million new democrats now that felons can vote.
End days for the repubs in Florida.


Under what government Florida is allowing felons to vote? Trump or Obama...:)

Obama and Democrats were 8 Years in power and forgot about them
NOW that THEY NEED THEIR VOTE ARE USING THAT "tactic"?

These people are not stupid they made a mistake but they know Dems
Only want to USE them as voters.

Many of them are free thinker and are waking up.. .....Their RIGHT TO VOTE IS UNDER A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT DJTRUMP
NOT UNDER BHUSSEIN OBAMA who was in power for 8 YEARS and did nothing to fix this for them!

Advise:

"don't count your chickens before they hatch"
 Noftheborder
Joined: 10/4/2018
Msg: 7802
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/7/2018 9:19:04 AM
Funny listening to Trump right now trying to make like he's all bi-partisan. Something must be scaring him...like the possibility of subpoenas and oversight hearings. What a difference having less control can make, at least the day after.
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 7803
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/7/2018 9:31:09 AM

Under what government Florida is allowing felons to vote


I know in your Satan obsessed mind..you see Obama behind this...but actually a Florida Constitutional Amendment passed overwhelmingly, allowing Felons to vote once they have served their time or paid back society......there are over one million of them, at least hundreds of thousands.....its a pretty good bet most of them are not going to be good little Republicans....having been the victims of the good old boys network, so we will see where it goes.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 7804
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/7/2018 9:33:07 AM
Platy

"Take heart Hawk. Florida is about to gain from 600,000 to 1.2 million new democrats now that felons can vote. End days for the repubs in Florida. Very sad for republicans."

Are those figures just for florida? And would the democrats embrace those figures? Surely normal working folk would baulk at career criminals being feted would they not?

Why have they changed the law to allow felon crims to be able to vote then?

I cannae see how a million criminals can be an asset. Well i can seeing as how wall street criminals have a lot of say in your governments.

Been loads about yous lots election over here on the news. But they are reporting that president the donalds lot done not too bad.

They said that he has done better than obama done in his first year or two.

Have you heard of the arsehole who runs france? Macron? He is calling for a euro army to be ready for threats from russia, china AND the united states of america.
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 7805
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/7/2018 9:50:07 AM
Yes Vlad...just Florida.... https://www.npr.org/2018/11/02/663655567/in-florida-people-with-past-felony-convictions-cant-vote-but-that-could-all-chan.

Its already a done deal...the working folk voted for the amendment allowing Felons to get back their voting privileges...and it only makes sense..if they are working in Florida...paying taxes, shouldn't they have a vote? A constitutional amendment overrides any State Law disenfranchising the felons.

As for a million criminals being an asset...you don't understand how the system in the US works...it is very easy to be charged with a felony and forced through plea bargaining to plead guilty...innocuous crimes like drug possession, etc. and typically it is minorities etc.... and for the most part, they are not going to support the white, old-man republican agenda.

The end result of the election is this...The Repubs in the Senate will be thwarted in trying to again cut taxes, repeal the Affordable Care act, etc. .. which means Congress will get even less done than they have the last few years....and they didn't do much then. Additionally, the House has the power to now investigate Trump, issue subpoenas all it wants. It can even impeach Trump. He will never be convicted by the Senate of course...but it could doom his presidence what comes out from a House investigation.

So really on a Federal Level...the Repubs lost their big advantage with regarding to passing legislation...still Trump will get whatever Supreme Court Picks and Judicial appointments he wants over the next two years...so the US judiciary is turning even more conservative than it has been.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 7806
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/7/2018 10:17:53 AM
Platy

"Its already a done deal...the working folk voted for the amendment allowing Felons to get back their voting privileges...and it only makes sense..if they are working in Florida...paying taxes, shouldn't they have a vote? A constitutional amendment overrides any State Law disenfranchising the felons.

As for a million criminals being an asset...you don't understand how the system in the US works...it is very easy to be charged with a felony and forced through plea bargaining to plead guilty...innocuous crimes like drug possession, etc. and typically it is minorities etc.... and for the most part, they are not going to support the white, old-man republican agenda."



I had a quick read about felons on the bus home from work. The thing i read said employers can discriminate against felons getting work. It also said there are many hoops felons have to jump through.

So why just florida? Are other states not up for it? And how many felons are there over shermanland?

How many felons do you think would take up the joy of voting for tweedle dumb or tweedle dee?

They were thinking about plea bargaining in courts in englandshire but i think it got laughed out. Ive watched some telly about plea bargaining though.

Plead guilty to a crime you never committed and you get 5 year. Or go to trial and maybe get 20 year. Lol what a choice.

Under Scottish law you need corroboration before charges are made. Although they are trying to change the law now.
 calliopedreams
Joined: 11/21/2017
Msg: 7807
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/7/2018 10:23:08 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/07/politics/florida-felons-voting-rights/index.html

These are felons who have paid their debt to society.

Not including murderers or those convicted of a sex crime.

Each state makes their own laws regarding the rights of felons, including voting.

https://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000286

10 states have a potential permanent ban.
Florida was among the most repressive with respect to voting - a lifetime ban.

The Florida law was seen by many as the suppression of people based on class/education/race, considering who makes up most of the felons.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 7808
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/7/2018 11:20:02 AM
"NOT UNDER BHUSSEIN OBAMA who was in power for 8 YEARS and did nothing to fix this for them!"

You really need to look up some facts every now and then. Disenfranchisement of felons was state law -- Obama could do nothing about that (nor Trump, for that matter). Furthermore, as governor throughout the past 8 years, Rick Scott had the personal power to re-enfranchise them, and not only didn't, but bragged about doing so and was opposed to the amendment that just passed that re-enfranchised them. You really think the majority of these new voters are going to support a party that publicly and gleefully kept them disenfranchised? You always sound ignorant but in this case you sound brainless.

It is certainly understandable why Scott would be opposed to this happening -- he won all 3 of his races by a few ten thousand votes -- if even 10% of those he refused to re-enfranchise vote in the next election, he will be toast (and probably so will Trump, who won Florida by 100,000 votes).
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 7809
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/7/2018 11:21:16 AM

Plead guilty to a crime you never committed and you get 5 year. Or go to trial and maybe get 20 year. Lol what a choice.


The system really is a travesty over here....the system would implode without plea-bargaining because there are so many charged throughout the country. So it is routine for prosecutors to load up on charges, coercing people to forego their right to trial at the threat of being found guilty and suffering much more harsh sentencing from the Courts. The problem is of course that nobody can ever guarantee what any Jury will do with any particular case so long as there is competent evidence put before them...which may be nothing more than the vindictive woman trying to get back at her boyfriend.....so do you put your life in the hands of the Jury or do you plead guilty and take a sure thing? Actual innocence often has nothing to do with it...it really comes down to the integrity of the prosecutor to never charge somebody with something that is not supported by significant, competent evidence.
 rednwhiterider
Joined: 6/23/2018
Msg: 7810
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/7/2018 12:46:19 PM
yet where doth your venom lie?


and,edit to add:
Vlad... do the skinny girls put glitter on their butts over there?
yay or nay to the glitter?
 Rumours
Joined: 6/4/2018
Msg: 7811
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/7/2018 3:54:14 PM

What a difference having less control can make, at least the day after

Didn't take him long to convert back to his insults and threats....lol.

I’m gonna buy stocks in popcorn.

Yep...Really gonna become a comedy act now...pass the popcorn.
 Llove2laughtoo
Joined: 10/22/2018
Msg: 7812
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/8/2018 3:20:25 PM

Msg: 7832
It is certainly understandable why Scott would be opposed to this happening -- he won all 3 of his races by a few ten thousand votes -- if even 10% of those he refused to re-enfranchise vote in the next election, he will be toast (and probably so will Trump, who won Florida by 100,000 votes).


I think that Florida's race for the Senate and Governor are going for a recount.
 Million_Reasons
Joined: 10/23/2018
Msg: 7813
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/8/2018 4:17:01 PM
^Broward County. Isn't that the same county where ballots were illegally destroyed two years ago?

No matter what side you are on. Sumpin' fishy going on there!
 Llove2laughtoo
Joined: 10/22/2018
Msg: 7814
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/8/2018 10:37:17 PM
Rick Scott, Mr fraud himself, who had to pay the Feds tens of millions for defrauding Medicare is now saying that somebody's defrauding him in Florida?


Florida Gov. Rick Scott suggested there was “rampant fraud” and called for law enforcement to investigate two counties over their election practices as the Republican’s lead in the state’s U.S. Senate race continued to shrink Thursday evening.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rick-scott-recount-law-enforcement-fraud_us_5be4fb42e4b0e8438895dc54
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 7815
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/9/2018 1:24:11 AM
You know how yous shermans are obsessed by 'identity' politics. And clintons 'identity' driven campaign probably lost her the presidency because she ignored the white working class.

There was a lassie recently over the pond who pretended she was black so she could virtue signal and line her pockets with cash.

So does this geezer below have a 'right' to be black? After all apparently a geezer who dresses as a woman IS a woman. (But he's really a geezer dressed as a wummin)

It is said what happens in shermanland usually ends up here. Well it has.

Is it cos ahm black innit.

(He added an african sounding middle name though. So he probably has a point)


"A white theatre director who was given a job intended for artists of colour has found himself at the centre of a debate around racial identity.

Anthony Ekundayo Lennon, who has worked on all-black productions, is among four people who won a paid traineeship as a “theatre practitioner of colour” last year.

The opportunity was funded by a £406,500 grant from Arts Council England to "deliver a comprehensive programme of talent development for future Bame leaders".

The actor reportedly applied on the basis of his “mixed heritage”, having previously claimed he had “gone through the struggles of a black man” despite being born to white Irish parents.

He talked about his racial identity when he appeared on a 1990s episode of BBC series Everyman, the synopsis for which says: “Anthony Lennon was born in Kilburn, west London. His parents both come from Ireland and are both indisputably white.

“Anthony now earns his living as a black actor, because ever since he was a child he has looked black. When his friends, who are mostly black, find out about his background, fierce debates invariably follow; about whether Anthony really can call himself black, and about what black skin means to those who are born black.”

Critics have described the decision to award Mr Lennon with “crucial funding dedicated to artists of colour” as a “kick in the teeth” for black aspiring actors and artists.

Writing for The Independent, Paula Akpan, an advocate for black women, said his claim of being “African born again” was “not how race works at all”, while black actor Luke Elliot said he was “fuming” that Mr Lennon was “taking up the little resources” awarded to black artists.

The case has revived discussion prompted by Rachel Dolezal, a white American woman and former civil rights activist who for 10 years pretended she was black before being publicly outed."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/anthony-ekundayo-lennon-black-white-theatre-director-job-people-of-colour-actor-artist-tawala-a8617011.html


And yet some are surprised when citizens withhold their votes for the 'identity' driven virtue signalers.

Brilliant and most chucklesome.

Redwhite

"Vlad... do the skinny girls put glitter on their butts over there?
yay or nay to the glitter?"

Ah i couldn't say mate. My days of clubbing are long gone. And the pubs i drink in the lassies are more likely to have just got out of jail.
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
Msg: 7816
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/9/2018 9:45:39 AM
so now chump fired Sessions, replaced him with someone who sold hot tub frauds before the company was shut down, all b/c he got himself on CNN to denounce Mueller in hopes of getting a position in the midwest. doesn't look fishy in the least, naw.

as for the actor thing, vlad, take a google at what's going on with the movie, "Tropic Thunder". It was in the news around Halloween.
 Llove2laughtoo
Joined: 10/22/2018
Msg: 7817
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/9/2018 11:45:21 PM

Msg: 7840
so now chump fired Sessions, replaced him with someone who sold hot tub frauds before the company was shut down, all b/c he got himself on CNN to denounce Mueller in hopes of getting a position in the midwest. doesn't look fishy in the least, naw.


October 11, 2018 - Comrade Trump in Fox and Friends.
"I can tell you Matt Whitaker is a great guy. I mean, I know Matt Whitaker".

November 9, 2018 - Comrade Trump.
"Matt Whitaker, I don't know Matt Whitaker. I didn't know Matt Whitaker. I didn't speak to Matt Whitaker about it, I don't know Matt Whitaker. In all fairness to Matt Whitaker, who again, I didn't know .....

It appears that Comrade Trump is having a hard time distancing himself from his own hand picked Attorney general now that it has been disclosed that Matt Whitaker was involved with World Patent Marketing. This company has been charged with being an invention promotion fraudulent SCAM, they bilked thousands of people out of thousands of dollars . They scammed veterans, including disabled veterans who lost their life savings.

Lie after lie after lie, what a pathetic excuse for a human being.


Donald Trump’s new acting attorney general, Matthew Whitaker, was involved in a company that scammed US military veterans out of their life savings, according to court filings and interviews.

Whitaker, a former US attorney in Iowa, was paid to work as an advisory board member for World Patent Marketing (WPM), a Florida-based company accused by the US government of tricking aspiring inventors out of millions of dollars. Earlier this year, it was ordered to pay authorities $26m.

Several veterans, two of them with disabilities, said they lost tens of thousands of dollars in the WPM scam, having been enticed into paying for patenting and licensing services by the impressive credentials of Whitaker and his fellow advisers.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/09/matthew-whitaker-acting-attorney-general-wpm-scam
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 7818
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/10/2018 4:24:19 AM
Calop
"The Florida law was seen by many as the suppression of people based on class/education/race, considering who makes up most of the felons."

I was reading an article from the intolerant illiberal liberal gaurdian this morning. It was regarding the convicted felons voting thing. I assumed the lifting of the ban on voting would help the democrats in florida.

But according to this article it would seem it could add many many republican votes because the majority of felons in florida are white.............



"Gunder, exhausted from campaigning for Amendment 4 by speaking at events and knocking on doors, was elated over the change.

“As a United States citizen, as a resident of the state of Florida, as a person who is affected by these leaders that we put into office and the decisions that are being made, I should be able to weigh in,” Gunder said. “I strongly believe that taxation without representation is against my human rights and civil rights as a United States citizen.”

Thanks to a felony conviction, Valencia Gunder was unable to cast a ballot in an election for the past eight years.

Amendment 4 restores voting rights to all Floridians previously convicted of a felony, except those convicted of murder or a felony sexual offense. It passed by a 30-point margin, 65% to 35%, in a state notorious for razor-close elections, indicating strong bipartisan support.

The simplest version of the argument held that, since ex-felons are disproportionately black in Florida, and black voters disproportionately support Democrats, granting voting rights would be a net boon to Democratic candidates.

Research shows it isn’t so simple. It’s true that the criminal justice system disproportionately ensnares black Americans, but in raw numbers, the largest cohort of ex-felons in Florida are white men, who tend to vote for Republicans.

A 2012 study by a researcher at Northwestern found that if ex-felons had been able to vote in the 2000 election, it might have actually bolstered the vote totals for George Bush’s narrow victory. A recent study from Vox* had similar findings.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/09/florida-amendment-4-felons-voting-rights-response-activists

So if these figures are correct then the republicans could do well out of this.

And once again race will be the deciding factor rather than class.

And from the many articles i have read about WHY clinton never won was because she never offered the struggling white working class anything at all.

Even that daftie michael moore wrote about the democrats ignoring millions of voters because although the voters are poor their skin colour is wrong.

*the vox link goes into more detail.

GTO
Aye i seen that in the lying press over here. This madness will come back and bite snowflakes on the arse one day. Hope I'm still alive to watch them eat themselves.
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 7819
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/10/2018 5:49:36 AM
Interesting argument about felons but I don't believe it. The Republicans party is the party of repression and lock him up mentality. Felons are not going to reward the system that took their freedom and civil rights imho.
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
Msg: 7820
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/10/2018 7:20:05 AM
so now there's a legal argument that the apologizer Chump picked to replace Sessions, isn't constitutional b/c Congress has to put their rubber stamp on the "top cop of the nation", esp. in matters involving the separation of powers. we'll see how far that goes.

As for HRC not offering the working class a thing at all, her initial plan for health care springs to mind. The GOP killed it with their "Harry and Loiuse" ads among other things. She was a fool during the campaign to give up on the "bubba vote" to take time off for the shooting down in florida that week. we'll see how many felons in FL are Republican, in many states a lot of the arrests were due to the war on drugs. also, race and class almost ending up being similar, due to economic disparities. If i could link, i'd do a saturday night live skit called "Black Jepardy" with Tom Hanks playing a Trump supporter. Its stereotypical yet so wonderfully shows how close two economic groups split by income, are actually together in how they view the world and deal with daily issues.

"This madness will come back and bite snowflakes on the arse one day. Hope I'm still alive to watch them eat themselves."

>>>you may already know, Vlad, that Asia Arista (sic) the actress who went after Harvey weinstein, has been accused herself. she blames her dead bf, anthony bourdain (again, sic) for making payoffs. in this country, constitutionally we believe in "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" rather than a kangaroo court--but of course we have a history of witch trials and red scares based on social fear. And also, if a group of people need an expert to run things, they should pick without a basis of skin colour or race or any other bias. but on the flip side, how does one become an expert?

by getting hired in high positions, and getting experience. If a group labors for the rights of their own group, should they be allowed to "support their own kind's rise"?
 calliopedreams
Joined: 11/21/2017
Msg: 7821
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/10/2018 7:58:25 AM

But according to this article it would seem it could add many many republican votes because the majority of felons in florida are white.............


I doubt that very much (i.e. what a load of crap with a capital POO), but if the statistics were conveniently "skewed" to support that premise, it sounds like something that would have been helpful in securing the vote that passed Amendment 4 to restore voting rights.

Yes, there are many Republicans in Florida. No, I do not believe for a minute that "the majority of felons in florida are white."

Take a look at statistics collected in 2010 (well before this Amendment was proposed) where it shows the numbers of Black, Hispanic and White (non-Hispanic) prisoners per 100,000 people of that ethnic group:
White (non-Hispanic) - 626
Hispanic - 536
Black - 2,555

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/profiles/FL.html

So, maybe they tried to convince people there were more "Whites" than Hispanics or another skewed interpretation, but there is NO WAY that these stats have changed appreciably since 2010.

As a matter of fact, former felons had the right to vote "automatically restored" under the previous Florida Governor, Charlie Crist, but the current Florida Governor, Republican Rick Scott, did away with it. Now, you don't REALLY think he would have taken that kind of action, if he felt the party would benefit from additional "Republican voters," do you?



What did Amendment 4 change about voting rights of convicted felons?

Amendment 4 was designed to automatically restore the right to vote for people with prior felony convictions, except those convicted of murder or a felony sexual offense, upon completion of their sentences, including prison, parole, and probation.[3] As of 2018, people with prior felonies never regain the right to vote in Florida, until and unless a state board restores an individual's voting rights. Under former Florida Governor Charlie Crist, (who was elected as a Republican, changed his affiliation to unaffiliated toward the end of his term in office, and registered as a Democrat after his time as governor) the Executive Clemency Board automatically restored the rights of felons who had completed their sentences, paid restitution, and had no pending criminal charges. Current governor Rick Scott (R) eliminated those reforms made by the Crist administration.[4] Under Scott's administration, convicted felons must wait five or seven years, depending on the type of offense, after the completion of their sentences to request that the board consider the restoration of their voting and other civil rights.[5][6]


https://ballotpedia.org/Florida_Amendment_4,_Voting_Rights_Restoration_for_Felons_Initiative_(2018)

Of course, the powers that be have used (non-voting, currently incarcerated) prisoners for years in the count for constituents in order to keep control of certain districts. It is known as "prison gerrymandering" and was declared unconstitutional by a Federal Judge in 2016. Florida is the most egregious state for this practice.

https://web.archive.org/web/20131224040019/www.miamiherald.com/2013/09/28/3655483/fred-grimm-putting-the-con-in.html
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 7822
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/10/2018 8:20:18 AM
Platy
"Interesting argument about felons but I don't believe it. The Republicans party is the party of repression and lock him up mentality. Felons are not going to reward the system that took their freedom and civil rights imho."


Well its no my argument to be fair. But i read the report mention on the vox link................

"According to the Sentencing Project, there were 1,487,847 ex-felons in Florida who were unable to vote during the 2016 election, of which about a quarter, or 418,224, were black."

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/11/2/18049510/felon-voting-rights-amendment-4-florida


Now you could give all 1,487,874 felons the vote but how many of them would actually use their vote? Poor blacks, poor hispanics, poor whites in fact poor folk in general feel disenfranchised.

The party of repression and lock him up? Yet i read this about the democrats under bill clinton. And would i be wrong in saying that no government since has repealed clintons policies?...............


"Despite claims that radical changes in crime and welfare policy were driven by a desire to end big government and save taxpayer dollars.

Billions of dollars were slashed from public-housing and child-welfare budgets and transferred to the mass-incarceration machine.

By 1996, the penal budget was twice the amount that had been allocated to food stamps. During Clinton’s tenure, funding for public housing was slashed by $17 billion (a reduction of 61 percent), while funding for corrections was boosted by $19 billion (an increase of 171 percent), according to sociologist Loïc Wacquant “effectively making the construction of prisons the nation’s main housing program for the urban poor.”

Bill Clinton championed discriminatory laws against formerly incarcerated people that have kept millions of Americans locked in a cycle of poverty and desperation.

The Clinton administration eliminated Pell grants for prisoners seeking higher education to prepare for their release, supported laws denying federal financial aid to students with drug convictions, and signed legislation imposing a lifetime ban on welfare and food stamps for anyone convicted of a felony drug offense—an exceptionally harsh provision given the racially biased drug war that was raging in inner cities.

By the end of Clinton’s presidency, more than half of working-age African-American men in many large urban areas were saddled with criminal records and subject to legalized discrimination in employment, housing, access to education, and basic public benefits—relegated to a permanent second-class status eerily reminiscent of Jim Crow.

It is difficult to overstate the damage that’s been done. Generations have been lost to the prison system; countless families have been torn apart or rendered homeless; and a school-to-prison pipeline has been born that shuttles young people from their decrepit, underfunded schools to brand-new high-tech prisons.

Rather than spending billions of dollars constructing a vast new penal system, those billions could have been spent putting young people to work in inner-city communities and investing in their schools so they might have some hope of making the transition from an industrial to a service-based economy."

https://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

Funny how the past gets forgotten due to TDS eh?
 calliopedreams
Joined: 11/21/2017
Msg: 7823
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/10/2018 9:59:00 AM
Vlad -
O.K. the Vox article/study uses: "a small group of ex-felons from 2007 to 2011 under then-governor (and then-Republican) Charlie Crist. (Florida vests the governor with the exclusive power to restore the vote through an executive clemency process.) Crist restored the right to vote to about 150,000 ex-felons convicted of less serious offenses."

I didn't read the "Rules Of Executive Clemency,"
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/morse/files/crist_2007_policy.pdf
but voting rights will be restored to all felons "except those convicted of murder or a felony sexual offense, upon completion of their sentences, including prison, parole, and probation."

I don't see the exact numbers in the article in Vox, but looking at the bar graphs, Blacks represent about 55k and "Not Black" (this apparently includes Asian, Native American, etc., and other "Not Blacks" since they state "We defined nonblack as white, Hispanic, Asian, and other due to data limitations.") would be the remainder, or 150,000 - 55k =95k. so, Blacks are about 37% of this population and Not Blacks are the remainder, or 63%


This Clemency happened during the same time-frame the other study was performed showing the Florida prison population described as follows:

Take a look at statistics collected in 2010 (well before this Amendment was proposed) where it shows the numbers of Black, Hispanic and White (non-Hispanic) prisoners per 100,000 people of that ethnic group:
White (non-Hispanic) - 626
Hispanic - 536
Black - 2,555

This is an apples and oranges scenarion, since it shows the number of people incarcerated versus their population. E.g. Out of 100,000 Blacks in Florida, 2,555=2.6% are incarcerated. Likewise, 0.6% of Whites and 0.5% of Hispanics (rounded to nearest tenth). OR Not Blacks (with fudge factor for Asians and "other" for which no figures are supplied) are incarcerated at the rate of 1.1% per 100,000.

A paper published in 2011 shows the results of Florida's 2010 Census:

According to the 2010 census, Florida’s population was 57.9 percent non-Hispanic White, 15.2 percent non-Hispanic Black, 22.5 percent Hispanic, 2.4 percent Asian, and 2.1 percent Other race/ethnicities.

https://www.flcenterfornursing.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/Download.aspx?Command=Core_Download&EntryId=171&PortalId=0&TabId=151

So, in 2010, Blacks represent 15.2% of Florida's population and Not Blacks are the remainder = 84.9 (I know it isn't 100%, but I am using THEIR numbers, which have some rounding, obviously).

Anyway, the pop in 2010 FL was 18.84 Million.

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_&met_y=population&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=population&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=state:12000&ifdim=country&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false

18,840,000 x 15.2%=2,863,680 Blacks, 74,456 Incarcerated at some point.


18,840,000 x 84.9%=15,995,160 Not Blacks, 175,947 Incarcerated at some point.


So based on this rough calculation, yes, I will concede that the number of "Not Black" people in Florida prisons are greater than the number of Black people. Therefore, it may be reasonable to assume that will carry over somewhat proportionally to pardoned Felons.

However, the flaw in the Vox study is only looking at results of the Voters who participated. 2016 was an extremely apathetic year. Notice the bar charts that show large numbers of pardoned Felons that did not even register to Vote. There is NO WAY to know how they might have voted. 2016 was one of the most unpredictable elections I have ever witnessed.

Anyway, we shall see what happens.
 calliopedreams
Joined: 11/21/2017
Msg: 7824
Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/10/2018 12:52:08 PM
Vlad -

To clarify, while there are MORE "Not Black" vs Black Felons (per the category used in the Vox study),
there are still MORE Black Felons than WHITE Felons. So if the term "Not Black" was construed to mean WHITE, that is where the B.S. lies.

Per the 2010 Census, the pop in 2010 FL was 18.84 Million.

57.9 percent White (non-Hispanic) = 10,908,360 > incarcerated at rate of - 626/100,000 x 10,908,360 = 68,286 White Felons versus

15.2 percent Black (non-Hispanic) = 2,863,680 > incarcerated at rate of - 2,555/100,000 x 2,863,680 = 73,167 Black Felons.

There are still MORE Black Felons than WHITE Felons.

As I said earlier, this statement


the majority of felons in florida are white.............


is still pure Bullsh!t, and I don't see that statement anywhere in the Vox article. As a matter of fact, the only place that the word "White" is mentioned is in the definition ["We defined nonblack as white, Hispanic, Asian, and other due to data limitations"], not in any of the Tables:

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/11/2/18049510/felon-voting-rights-amendment-4-florida

So, this must be your own personal conclusion after reading the article:

the majority of felons in florida are white.............

I think you confused "Not Black" with White. Common mistake, I suppose. AND, while I bet that misconception could have been leveraged to sway the vote for Amendment 4, I doubt the Republicans would make that mistake.

Vox.com is liberal leaning and that article was likely designed to mitigate the fear of Black voter numbers increasing, in showing that they were outnumbered by other races.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 7825
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Will President Elect Donald Trump Last The Full 4 Years?
Posted: 11/10/2018 2:06:52 PM
Callop

"I don't see the exact numbers in the article in Vox, but looking at the bar graphs, Blacks represent about 55k and "Not Black" (this apparently includes Asian, Native American, etc., and other "Not Blacks" since they state "We defined nonblack as white, Hispanic, Asian, and other due to data limitations.") would be the remainder, or 150,000 - 55k =95k. so, Blacks are about 37% of this population and Not Blacks are the remainder, or 63%"


Well i am using the figures supplied by the Sentencing Project. According to THEM three quarters of convicted felons. (You are correct about where i claimed white. I was wrong) are not black.

But i would think a good few of the three quarters who are not black would be classed as white do you not think?

"According to the Sentencing Project, there were 1,487,847 ex-felons in Florida who were unable to vote during the 2016 election, of which about a quarter, or 418,224, were black."

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/11/2/18049510/felon-voting-rights-amendment-4-florida



"However, the flaw in the Vox study is only looking at results of the Voters who participated. 2016 was an extremely apathetic year. Notice the bar charts that show large numbers of pardoned Felons that did not even register to Vote. There is NO WAY to know how they might have voted. 2016 was one of the most unpredictable elections I have ever witnessed.
Anyway, we shall see what happens."

But the claim that if felons had been allowed to vote the democrats would have won florida do not have any validity.

That claim is assuming black, white, asian, hispanic, indian felons are going to vote. They may NEXT time yous have a vote. But as you say we will see what happens.............


"think you confused "Not Black" with White. Common mistake, I suppose. AND, while I bet that misconception could have been leveraged to sway the vote for Amendment 4, I doubt the Republicans would make that mistake.

Vox.com is liberal leaning and that article was likely designed to mitigate the fear of Black voter numbers increasing, in showing that they were outnumbered by other races."


But i remember the martin zimmerman killing in florida. Zimmerman was called 'white' hispanic. So the three quarters non black felons may contain many hundreds of thousands of 'white' hispanics.

Or can hispanics play the race card by claiming not to be white although the sherman lying press use the 'white' hispanic term quite a lot?
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