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 AUTHOR
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 2476
Muslim in AmericaPage 100 of 123    (83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123)
""""""Sorry, Virginia, there really are pro-life atheists. American Atheists President David Silverman wasn’t wrong when he told a reporter at CPAC this week, “I will admit there is a secular argument against abortion” (even if he didn’t agree with that position himself).
When I partnered with fellow atheists from Secular Pro-Life to bring a display table to the 2012 American Atheists Convention, some bloggers really wanted to believe we were lying about our atheism, but it turns out we’re all True Scotsmen. The latest Gallup poll suggests that 19% of those identifying as atheist, agnostic, or of no religious affiliation also identify as pro-life."""""


"""""Andrew Pinsent

A triple threat if ever there was one, Father Pinsent is a Catholic priest, a Research Fellow at Harris Manchester College and the Research Director of Oxford's Ian Ramsey Centre for Science and Religion. Some of his earlier work (about 31 volumes which he co-authored) contributed to the creation of the Large Electron-Positron Collider at CERN, but he has moved toward more philosophical work of late, with a Ph.D. in philosophy from St. Louis University. That's in addition to his three degrees in philosophy and theology from Pontifical Gregorian University and his D.Phil in high energy physics from Merton College. When he's not doing groundbreaking research on science and physics, he's working on theology. His book, The Second-Person Perspective in Aquinas’s Ethics: Virtues and Gifts, was published in 2012.

Stanley Jaki

A Benedictine priest and a distinguished physicist, Jaki spent his life at the forefront of orchestrating a friendly relationship between science and religion, penning more than two dozen books on the subject. He's famous for putting forth the theory that modern scientific inquiry can not only exist alongside religion, but that modern science only could have arisen within a Christian society. In fact, it was this work that warranted him the Templeton Award, which is given to those who do outstanding work in affirming a spiritual dimension to reality. And he was as well-qualified as anyone to do so. He received one doctorate in theology from Pontifical Atheneum of St. Anselm, and one in physics from Fordham University.

Mike Hulme

Mike Hulme is the author of the excellent Why We Disagree About Climate Change, which was one of The Economist's four science and technology books of the year in 2009. Ever since receiving his Ph.D in climatology from the University of Wales, he's been a leading Christian voice on the reality of climate change, which he has summed up in five severe but notably levelheaded lessons: 1."Climate change is a relative risk, not an absolute one." 2. "Climate risks are serious, and we should seek to minimize them." 3. "Our world has huge unmet development needs." 4. "Our current energy portfolio is not sustainable. 5. "Massive and deliberate geo-engineering of the planet is a dubious practice."""""
 triblata
Joined: 6/11/2017
Msg: 2477
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/20/2017 7:47:55 PM
To sum up Dees post Herod jovan... You prove over and over you are full of shit. Your hatred of religion arises out of a mentally ill mind.
Possibly manifesting itself due to ptsd after your multiple rapes. So sad.
.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 2478
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/21/2017 4:55:51 AM

The latest Gallup poll suggests that 19% of those identifying as atheist, agnostic, or of no religious affiliation also identify as pro-life."""""


First of all: "The latest Gallup poll " wasn't back in 2012.
Secondly, put another way: 81% is a significant majority.
So thanks for that.

His book, The Second-Person Perspective in Aquinas’s Ethics: Virtues and Gifts, was published in 2012.

Thomas Aquinas was a 13th century catholic priest.
What he thought about anything is as relevant to 21st century life as his other geocentric, creationist, demon-infested beliefs.
Continuing to discuss them today is trying to "turn back the clock"
More proof.
Thanks.

He's famous for putting forth the theory that modern scientific inquiry can not only exist alongside religion, but that modern science only could have arisen within a Christian society. In fact, it was this work that warranted him the Templeton Award,

In fact, modern science actually began with the Greeks, about 2,000 years before "chtristianity" even existed. They worshiped other "gods".
The west borrowed much of the scientific progress made in the Middle East, by "muslims", who weren't, ummmm "christians".
So much for his "theory".
And telling me that a religious organisation gave him an "award", is like telling me that the church gave him a "special magic hat".
Thanks again.

Religious "belief " in the complete absence of any evidence for that belief, completely contradicts "the scientific method".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

The Oxford Dictionaries Online define the scientific method as "a method or procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses".[4] Experiments need to be designed to test hypotheses. The most important part of the scientific method is the experiment.

It's all about evidence .
Therefore those people aren't "proper scientists", because they violate the first rule of science.

What you're all ignoring, is that your "defence" of religion, in general, advocates the spread of "Islam" too.
-Or is it only religions which you approve of, which are "good" for society?
It's a conundrum, isn't it?

I didn't think you could prove it.. .thanks for proving it.

You're welcome.

Still, "tradition is good for tradition's sake", has to be the best tautology I've heard...
Classic.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 2479
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/21/2017 5:01:14 AM
So you skipped over the science parts.
OK.

You, like David Silverman and Bill Maher, had a rough time growing up jewish but instead of yelling at judaism you whip christianity.
When you start yellibg at islam the way you do christianity then people may take what you are saying as more than howling.

I am sorry that you all had such terrible childhood experiences.

Atheists can be terruble
Jews can be terrible
Christians can be terrible.
The big terrible now, at this moment in history, is certain followers of islam.

For you to ignore that makes me glad that you are not making security decisions.
 triblata
Joined: 6/11/2017
Msg: 2480
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/21/2017 5:12:31 AM
Herod....big mouth...still no proof that religions trying to turn back progress. So sad....i know a women who is schizophrenic who sees things that are not there too. Perhaps that is your problem? Losing touch with reality is a telltale symptom..and gosh knows seeing things sure seems to be a huge issue with you. Medication may help. Really..im trying to help. Lol.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 2481
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/21/2017 5:44:52 AM
You've had 374 different profiles.
You've insulted everyone on these boards, at some time or another.
You've had several very public meltdowns.
You've threatened, and wished death on people.
You're on here. Every minute, of every day.
You have a "gender identity crisis" going on.
You created a profile because you're obsessed with me.
You believe in a big, invisible sky-pixie, and nod at magic walls.

Yeah, I wish I was as "sane" as you clearly are..
Gotta run.
Life.
Be back when you've written another 4 pages!
 triblata
Joined: 6/11/2017
Msg: 2482
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/21/2017 6:38:12 AM
More proof of schizophrenia topped off with delusions of grandeur. So sad. No mental health care in london?
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 2483
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/21/2017 7:19:19 AM

To sum up Dees post Herod jovan... You prove over and over you are full of shit. Your hatred of religion arises out of a mentally ill mind.


Only a complete retard would draw that conclusion and not recognize that all she did was regurgitate some derpy christian story that has been re-posted 100X's of times on pro-christian blogs.

Which is why she did not bother to include a link, as it would expose her derp.
 triblata
Joined: 6/11/2017
Msg: 2484
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/21/2017 3:29:41 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nabra-hassanen-slain-muslim-teen-funeral-virginia/



Can you NOT see, how extreme you are reaching, to excuse using this girls death to further an anti-immigration stand point?!
"Ban all cars", really?!
That is what you come up with?
I hope this kid that killed her is locked away for a very long time, maybe NEVER to get out.
With me, that is about the TRUE issue, what he did.
You make it about him being an illegal immigrant, which, for the LAST time, had NOTHING to do with what he did!


Yea it did have to do with an immigration issue Forumslady.. This is what you don't get. It is an entirely different Culture in South America. It is one where life has little value, where violence and killings are far more common than here.

So this piece of shit from El Salvador comes here and kills somebody because he is angry....well guess what... that is par for the course down there.

So do not for a second think you have that your position is the righteous and just one.... the way this crime happened was especially heinous but very typical. Trump was right about some of these people. and if we can stop that trash from infesting our cities streets... so much the better.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 2485
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/21/2017 6:09:33 PM
Trump's silence after attack on Muslims speaks volumes
By Haroon Moghul
Updated 6:26 AM ET, Tue June 20, 2017


(CNN)For a long time, a lot of Muslims had their heads in the sand when it came to jihadist violence. They preferred to pretend as if it did not exist, or that foreign policy was solely to blame.

We've come a long way. We've learned that radicalization is a thing, and that we have a responsibility -- if we love our religion and our communities -- to think about what we can do to produce a different future for Islam and for Muslims. To change how our religion is taught in some spaces and some places.

Donald Trump and his supporters are going to have to make the same journey. They've excused, or even encouraged, extremist language and rhetoric for a long time now, and, well, here we are today, with a President who pretends that violence against Muslims doesn't matter.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/20/opinions/trump-silence-london-attack-muslim-moghul/index.html
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 2486
view profile
History
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/22/2017 3:28:23 AM
Many times over the years i have seen richard dawkins name used by the peoples front of atheista.
How strange therefore to seeing this about the atheist pin up boy..........


"By Douglas Ernst - The Washington Times - Monday, June 12, 2017

Author Richard Dawkins told an audience last week that Islam is the “most evil” religion in the world while scolding President Donald Trump for his anti-terror rhetoric.

Attendees at this year’s Cheltenham Science Festival in Gloucestershire, England, received more than a lecture on evolution during Mr. Dawkins’ prepared remarks.

The biologist, on hand Sunday for the June 6-11 event, said it would be a mistake to create a moral equivalence between religions.

“It’s tempting to say all religions are bad, and I do say all religions are bad, but it’s a worse temptation to say all religions are equally bad because they’re not,” the “Science in the Soul” author said, the U.K. Telegraph reported Sunday.

“If you look at the actual impact that different religions have on the world, it’s quite apparent that at present the most evil religion in the world has to be Islam.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/12/richard-dawkins-slams-islam-as-most-evil-religion-/
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 2487
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/22/2017 5:30:55 AM

Many times over the years i have seen richard dawkins name used by the peoples front of atheista.
How strange therefore to seeing this about the atheist pin up boy..........

I thought you said you were an atheist too Vlad?
Are you the "good sort of atheist"?
The kind that doesn't need the piss taking out of them?

And do you not think that making sweeping statements about a whole religion, based on the actions of a very few individuals who claim to belong to that religion, and to be acting on its behalf, might encourage other fvckwits, like the goon from wales, who pointed his van at an innocent old man, and killed him, and injured many who were trying to help him?

The "christian terrorist" who did that, had been following tweets from "Britain First", who say they want to reestablish "christianity" in Britain, and the cowardly little cvnt who shot Jo Cox, twice in the head, and once in the chest, before stabbing her a further 14 times, also shouted it.
-Because, if "islam is evil", then obviously, anyone who is a "Muslim" is also "evil" too.

I know that you're a man who is incensed by injustice.
I haven't seen you post much about the situation in Palestine/"israel", so I don't know what your views are, or if you know much about its history. (The last 100 years, - not just since 1948 )
As you know, I think all three are equally barking mad.

But leaving that aside, the "jewish" and "christian" religions have imposed their religious mythology, at the point of a gun, at the sole expense of the original inhabitants, who just happened to be mostly "muslims".
It's basically an "apartheid system", but based on religion, not "race".

The perpetuation of this injustice, aided, abetted, and funded and supplied with weapons, and training, by the "western superpowers" plays to a narrative that encourages "jihadists" to "fight back", in much the same way which you often seem to be encouraging other ("white"-"christian") people to do here.

Dawkins is right of course. I'm not "making excuses".
"Islam" has been prevalent in poorer, less well-educated countries, and hasn't been "moderated" and "toned-down" by popular consensus and secular influences, as "christianity" has, in the west. (Yet. But it will)
If hard-line "christians" still had their way, the shops and pubs would still be closed on Sundays, homosexuality would still be illegal, and "blasphemy" would still be punishable by imprisonment.
There'd be no legal abortion.
Until the 1990s, a woman here couldn't bring a rape charge on her own husband.
Until the 1970s, homosexuality was illegal.
We're not all that far ahead.
ALL religions want to impose their "rules", on everyone, because they "deeply believe" that they're "the correct way to live", and they believe that the rules are for the populations "own benefit", and it's "what god wants"..


If you don't know much about "israel", there's an excellent summary here:
http://ifamericaknew.org/history/

Or just google it, or read the wiki pages.

I didn't know about it myself, until the late 80s, and coming from parents who had both suffered greviously under the jack-boot themselves, I had a great sympathy with "jews", and consequently, also developed a deeply ingrained hatred of both fascists and "racists".

I still don't subscribe to the nonsensical "tribal" notions of "race" and religions, but looking at it objectively, those who subscribe to both, have inflicted, and continue to inflict, a terrible injustice, on an entirely innocent population, based on these fictions. (Which, ironically, they also believe)
Read up on it, if you have time, and draw your own conclusions.

Young men want to fight. You know that better than most.
If you give them what they consider to be a "just cause", there's a sort of inevitability about the result.
Personally, I'm a "peacenik"

Have a nice day.
 triblata
Joined: 6/11/2017
Msg: 2488
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/22/2017 5:48:37 AM
Herod Jovan....man are you an angry Fuk. You hate everything..everyone...even hated your own purported friends who were not as "open minded" as you. And now you want to drag Vlad into your obssessive world of hatred? You want him to be as mentally ill, as unhappy as you Are? Boy that priest did a real job on you....and now you want to drag others down into your own personal hell hole so they can be as miserable as you.

I'm curious Herod...since you drove your wife away...have you ever met a woman who cared for you? Loved you? Your anger at everything is so palpable it can be cut with a knife. Leave Vlad be. Nobody should live a life with your self imposed life in hell.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 2489
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/22/2017 8:44:24 AM
Ah the best thing about you triblatit is you are too stupid to see the irony in your posts.

So please keep raging on about others while you tell them how angry and miserable they must be.






In order to maintain the highest quality forums you are restricted to having no more then 2 of the last 10 posts on a thread.

Since 2 of the last 10 posts are yours you can not post to this thread.
 triblata
Joined: 6/11/2017
Msg: 2490
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/22/2017 8:59:28 AM

Ah the best thing about you triblatit is you are too stupid to see the irony in your posts.

So please keep raging on about others while you tell them how angry and miserable they must be.


I may have to put out a doll line on you too... not just one for funchesf. His will be a babbling doll.... yours will be close to the same but will repeat the same boring innuendos over and over and over. "You are stupid because I say so". "I guess that is because you are stupid".. "how ironic......you are the stupid one"..

But whereas the funchest doll will be amusing... people will hate your doll. So I will sell it with a target on its head....a replaceable babble head.. that can be used for target practice. I'm still thinking about how to best sell this. Any ideas?
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 2491
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/22/2017 9:00:52 AM
~73% of of Terrorist Attacks since 9/11 are carried out by White, Far-Right Extremists in the United States. - Radical Islam is no longer America's biggest threat.


What About the Terrorism of the Far Right?
By AMARNATH AMARASINGAM and JACOB DAVEYJUNE 21, 2017

LONDON — Last Friday was the first anniversary of the assassination of Jo Cox, the British member of Parliament who was killed by Thomas Mair, now serving life in prison for her murder. “This is for Britain,” he shouted as he stabbed and shot to death Ms. Cox, a 41-year-old Labour Party politician and mother of two, a week before the Brexit referendum. As shocking as this attack was, it did not come without precedent. In recent years, there have been noticeable upticks in far-right violence, even if its frequency and deadliness have often been overshadowed by the more high-profile attacks claimed by the Islamic State.

The frequency of far-right attacks is particularly significant in the United States, where white supremacist, anti-government and neo-Nazi extremists have been responsible for 73 percent of deadly terrorist attacks since Sept. 11, 2001, according to the Government Accountability Office. Also notable is that in many cases, Muslims have become the target of violence.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/opinion/finsbury-park-terrorist-attack-far-right.html
 triblata
Joined: 6/11/2017
Msg: 2492
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/22/2017 9:03:48 AM
^^^ Gee Frank... maybe you should start you own blog for those people here who are incapable of looking up the News themselves. If not for you and you ceaseless copying and pasting... nobody here would know what was being reported out there 24 and seven. Thanks for your help. LOLOLOL
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 2493
view profile
History
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/22/2017 9:43:27 AM
Oh deary me. Did someone shite on your doorstep and run away jo?

"I thought you said you were an atheist too Vlad? Are you the "good sort of atheist"? The kind that doesn't need the piss taking out of them?"

Take the piss all you want mate. Its no skin of my fore. See jo likes his wee jibes. Whether its socialism, nationalism or atheism. If you do not think like he does you get the full pat on the head. Oh and his wee jibe a couple of times asking if i liked the fuhrer........

"And do you not think that making sweeping statements about a whole religion, based on the actions of a very few individuals who claim to belong to that religion, and to be acting on its behalf, might encourage other fvckwits, like the goon from wales, who pointed his van at an innocent old man, and killed him, and injured many who were trying to help him?"

Well it WAS richard dawkins words and not mine. I merely posted them because you militant atheists seem not to have read his views on islam. It must be the only reason. Surely his words were not ignored by the inhabitants of atheistia........

"The "christian terrorist" who did that, had been following tweets from "Britain First", who say they want to reestablish "christianity" in Britain, and the cowardly little cvnt who shot Jo Cox, twice in the head, and once in the chest, before stabbing her a further 14 times, also shouted it. -Because, if "islam is evil", then obviously, anyone who is a "Muslim" is also "evil" too."

Ive not read anywhere that the geezer from wales was a christian. Have you a link? Funny how you who does not recognise race, religion or tribes never stops banging on about a religion.
Richard dawkins called islam evil. He is an atheist. Is he now islamophobic? Because you and your cohorts on here are........

"I know that you're a man who is incensed by injustice. I haven't seen you post much about the situation in Palestine/"israel", so I don't know what your views are, or if you know much about its history. (The last 100 years, - not just since 1948 ) As you know, I think all three are equally barking mad."

Oh i know about the history of palestine/israel. I just dont really care too much. Let them sort it out. I'm more bothered about getting wages to help my lassie and grandbairns out to be honest.........

"But leaving that aside, the "jewish" and "christian" religions have imposed their religious mythology, at the point of a gun, at the sole expense of the original inhabitants, who just happened to be mostly "muslims". It's basically an "apartheid system", but based on religion, not "race"."

So you who does not recognise race or religion mention once again errr race and religion..........

"The perpetuation of this injustice, aided, abetted, and funded and supplied with weapons, and training, by the "western superpowers" plays to a narrative that encourages "jihadists" to "fight back", in much the same way which you often seem to be encouraging other ("white"-"christian") people to do here. "

Ooops ANOTHER mention of race and religion. Now who voted tony blair back into power after the iraq debacle? Was it
A. Me
B. Someone who does not recognise race religion or tribes
?.......

"Dawkins is right of course. I'm not "making excuses". "Islam" has been prevalent in poorer, less well-educated countries, and hasn't been "moderated" and "toned-down" by popular consensus and secular influences, as "christianity" has, in the west. (Yet. But it will) If hard-line "christians" still had their way, the shops and pubs would still be closed on Sundays, homosexuality would still be illegal, and "blasphemy" would still be punishable by imprisonment. There'd be no legal abortion. Until the 1990s, a woman here couldn't bring a rape charge on her own husband. Until the 1970s, homosexuality was illegal. We're not all that far ahead. ALL religions want to impose their "rules", on everyone, because they "deeply believe" that they're "the correct way to live", and they believe that the rules are for the populations "own benefit", and it's "what god wants".. "

Phew at last dawkins gets a mention. Hurrahhhhhh.........

"If you don't know much about "israel", there's an excellent summary here:
http://ifamericaknew.org/history/ Or just google it, or read the wiki pages."

I know all i need to know...........

"I didn't know about it myself, until the late 80s, and coming from parents who had both suffered greviously under the jack-boot themselves, I had a great sympathy with "jews", and consequently, also developed a deeply ingrained hatred of both fascists and "racists"."

Once again you mention religion and in your world how can anyone be racist when you do not recognise race?....

"I still don't subscribe to the nonsensical "tribal" notions of "race" and religions, but looking at it objectively, those who subscribe to both, have inflicted, and continue to inflict, a terrible injustice, on an entirely innocent population, based on these fictions. (Which, ironically, they also believe) Read up on it, if you have time, and draw your own conclusions."

Yes ive noticed. You only mention race, religion and tribes occasionally. But the labour party is a tribe is it not?...

"Young men want to fight. You know that better than most. If you give them what they consider to be a "just cause", there's a sort of inevitability about the result. Personally, I'm a "peacenik""

And young men always will fight. Whether in military or gangs. It will not stop.

And you have a nice day as well.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 2494
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/22/2017 10:17:33 AM

Well it WAS richard dawkins words and not mine. I merely posted them because you militant atheists seem not to have read his views on islam.


Militant Atheist.

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/22800000/Militant-Atheist-atheism-22852239-475-336.jpg



Either way, for me, I will stop being a militant atheist when religion stops trying to legislate the civil rights of gays, the reproductive rights of women and the widespread indoctrination of children.
 triblata
Joined: 6/11/2017
Msg: 2495
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/22/2017 12:41:11 PM
The ongoing Drama of Palestinian Lies... wonder if Elphaba and Herod are paid agents?

The Ongoing Drama of Palestinian Lies
by Bassam Tawil
June 22, 2017 at 5:00 am

Source: The Ongoing Drama of Palestinian Lies

The current policy of the PA leadership is to avoid alienating the Trump administration by continuing to pretend that Abbas and his cronies are serious about achieving peace with Israel. This is why Abbas’s representatives are careful not to criticize Trump or his envoys.
When Israel does not comply with their list of demands, the Palestinians will accuse it of “destroying” the peace process. Worse still, the Palestinians will use this charge as an excuse to redouble their terror against Israelis. The Palestinian claim, as always, will be that they are being forced to resort to terrorism in light of the failure of yet another US-sponsored peace process.
No doubt, Abbas cannot find it within himself to clarify to the American envoys that he lacks a mandate from his people to make any step toward peace with Israel. Abbas knows, even if the American representatives do not, that any move in that direction would end his career, and very possibly his life. Abbas also does not wish to go down in Palestinian history as the treacherous leader who “sold out to the Jews.” Moreover, someone can come along later and say, quite correctly, that as Abbas has exceeded his legitimate term in office, any deal he makes is illegal and illegitimate.
US envoys Jason Greenblatt and Jared Kushner, who met this week in Jerusalem and Ramallah with Israeli and Palestinian Authority (PA) officials to discuss reviving the peace process, have discovered what previous US Middle East envoys learned in the past two decades — that the PA has not, cannot, and will not change.

During their meeting in Ramallah with PA President Mahmoud Abbas, the two US emissaries were told that the Palestinians will not accept anything less than an independent state along on the pre-1967 lines with East Jerusalem as its capital.


Abbas also made it clear that he has no intention to make concessions on the “right of return” for Palestinian “refugees.” This means he wants a Palestinian state next to Israel while flooding Israel with millions of Palestinian “refugees” and turning it, too, into another Palestinian state.

At the meeting, Abbas also reiterated his demand that Israel release all Palestinian prisoners, including convicted murderers with Jewish blood on their hands, as part of any peace agreement. The release of terrorists in the past has only resulted in increased terrorism against Israel.

According to Abbas’s spokesperson, Nabil Abu Rudaineh, the PA president told Kushner and Greenblatt that a “just and comprehensive peace should be based on all United Nations resolutions (pertaining to the Israeli-Arab conflict) and the (2002) Arab Peace Initiative.” Translation: Israel must withdraw to the indefensible pre-1967 lines and allow armed Palestinian factions to sit on the hilltops overlooking Ben Gurion Airport and Tel Aviv.

Abbas’s position reflects accurately the policy of the PA leadership over the past two decades — a policy that has been regularly relayed to all previous US administrations, successive Israeli governments and the international community.

To his credit, Abbas has been nothing short of consistent. He has never, ever, displayed a willingness to offer any concessions to Israel. He misses no opportunity to reaffirm his demands to all world leaders and government officials, with whom he meets on a regular basis.

Nonetheless, some in the international community still believe that Abbas or any other Palestinian leader will be able to make concessions in return for peace with Israel.

Incredibly, Kushner and Greenblatt seem to believe that they can succeed where all others have failed.

The two inexperienced US envoys are laboring under the illusion that they will persuade Abbas and the PA leadership to drop demands such as the “right of return,” the release of imprisoned terrorists and a cessation of construction in settlements.

Why President Trump’s envoys are creating the dangerously misleading impression that peace is possible under the current PA leadership is nothing short of a mystery.

Creating such an impression is likely to boomerang with a vengeance; the higher the expectations, the greater the disappointment. Giving the Palestinians the feeling that the Trump administration holds a magic wand for solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will eventually increase Palestinian bitterness and hostility towards both the Americans and Israel. When the Palestinians wake up to the fact that the Trump administration will not strong-arm Israel to its knees, they will resume their rhetorical attacks against Washington, accusing it once again of being “biased” in favor of Israel.

This was precisely the fate of previous US administrations and presidents who disappointed the Palestinians by failing to impose dictates on Israel. The Palestinians are still dreaming of the day that the US or any other superpower would force Israel to comply with all their demands.

When Israel does not comply with their list of demands, the Palestinians will accuse it of “destroying” the peace process.

Worse still, the Palestinians will use this charge as an excuse to redouble their terror attacks against Israelis. The Palestinian claim, as always, will be that they are being forced to resort to terrorism in light of the failure of yet another US-sponsored peace process.

The Trump administration is making a colossal mistake in thinking that Abbas or any of his Palestinian Authority cronies can exhibit any flexibility whatsoever toward Israel, particularly concerning Jerusalem, settlements and the “right of return.”

No doubt, Abbas cannot find it within himself to clarify to the American envoys that he lacks a mandate from his people to make any step toward peace with Israel. Abbas knows, even if the American representatives do not, that any move in that direction would end his career, and very possibly his life.

Abbas also does not wish to go down in Palestinian history as the treacherous leader who “sold out to the Jews.”

Despite the best intentions of the US envoys and others in the international community, Abbas knows full well the fate of any Palestinian leader who even considers “collaboration” with the “Zionist entity.”

Abbas, whose term in office expired in 2009 and is seen as an illegitimate president by many Palestinians, is not even in a position to offer Israel any concessions for peace. First, someone can come along later and say, quite correctly, that as Abbas has exceeded his legitimate term in office, any deal he makes is illegal and illegitimate.

Abbas also cannot halt anti-Israel incitement; he cannot stop payments to convicted murderers and their families and he cannot accept Jewish sovereignty over the Western Wall in Jerusalem.

Even if some of his aides sometimes come out with statements suggesting that the PA leadership is prepared to consider some concessions on these issues, these remarks should not be taken seriously: they are only intended for Western audiences.

The PA’s declared position is that it has already made enough concessions by merely recognizing Israel’s right to exist and dropping Palestinian claims to “all of Palestine.” This position argues that it is Israel, and not the Palestinians, that needs to make concessions for peace.

“We have reached the red line with regards to making concessions [to Israel],” explained Ashraf al-Ajrami, a former PA cabinet minister. “We have already made a series of concessions on the core issues, while Israel has not presented us with anything.”

It might be recalled that this statement by the former PA official is a staggering lie, given the generous offers, gestures and concessions made by successive Israeli prime ministers and governments over the past two decades.

Again and again, all Israeli initiatives have been met with Palestinian rejectionism and stepped-up violence.

The offer made by Prime Minister Ehud Barak at Camp David in 2000 to withdraw from most of the territories Israel captured in 1967 was met with the Second Intifada.

The Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip five years later was misinterpreted by Palestinians as a sign of weakness and retreat, and resulted in thousands of rockets and missiles being fired at Israel.

Another generous and unprecedented offer by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert fell on deaf ears.

The current policy of the Palestinian Authority leadership is to avoid alienating the Trump administration by continuing to pretend that Abbas and his cronies are serious about achieving peace with Israel. This is why Abbas’s representatives are careful not to criticize Trump or his envoys.

Abbas wants to deceive the Trump administration into believing that he has the courage, will and mandate to make peace with Israel, the same way he lied to previous Israeli prime ministers. This is the same Abbas who, for the past 10 years, has not been able to even go back to his private residence in the Gaza Strip, which remains under Hamas control.

But in private, some senior Palestinian officials have been criticizing the Trump administration for simply daring to make demands of the PA leadership, such as halting anti-Israel incitement and the payment of salaries to imprisoned terrorists and their families. In other words, what the Palestinian officials are saying is that either Trump accepts our demands or he can go to hell.

“The Americans have actually endorsed the Israeli position,” complained Hanna Amireh, a senior PLO official.

“The Palestinian leadership rejects the demand to stop financial aid to the prisoners and their families… Instead of setting preconditions for the Palestinians, the Americans must demand an end to Israeli settlement construction and incitement.”

In the twisted world of the Palestinian Authority leadership, Israeli demands for an end to the Palestinian glorification of murderers is itself an act of “incitement.”

How dare Israel demand that the PA leadership halt funds to imprisoned terrorists and their families? How dare Israel expose incitement and glorification of murderers and terrorists?

The PA leadership simply cannot fathom the problem with naming streets, public squares and youth and women’s centers after murderers of Jews.

It is only a matter of time before the PA leadership begins openly to accuse the Trump administration of being biased in favor of Israel. In the world of Abbas and his cronies, any US administration that does not swallow their lies and fabrications is a “hostile” party that is controlled by Jews and Zionists.

This is precisely what the Palestinians said about Trump and his team during the US presidential election campaign.

The PA leadership has indeed softened its tone against Trump and his advisors since they won the election. Yet this modified tone has one goal: for the PA to avoid accusations of being anti-peace.

In fact, the PA leadership has changed its tone, not its tune. We are witnessing a tactical and temporary move on the part of the Palestinians. This play-acting will end soon enough. The question remains, will the West notice that the curtain has gone down on the show?
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 2496
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/23/2017 6:49:13 AM
Vlad, I wasn't taking the piss, you were.
I just wondered what the difference between you, as a self-declared atheist, and "the people's front of atheista" was.;rolleyes:

As far as being a "militant atheist" goes, I'm very lazy.
Other than posting my views here, there's no "activity", so I don't really think that I'm "worthy" of the title.

I've tried to read the "god delusion", but not finished it.
IMO., you don't have to go into that much detail, to know that the contents of the alleged "holy books" are fictions and myths, compiled at a time when societies were ill-informed, superstitious, and frightened by anything they didn't understand the reasons for. -Which was just about everything

I'm surprised by your casual dismissal of the problems in the former Palestine, because Britain played a big role in their origins, and they still do.
"Let them sort it out" ignores the past and current involvement and support of western governments, particularly the USA, which arms and funds them.
(To the tune of about $4 billion/year!)
If you're an atheist, you must surely acknowledge that these "beliefs", which all originated there, (including "xtianity") create shit that spills-over and has an impact on all our lives.

Some factions of "Islam" are currently doing bad things, but "xtianity" and "judaism" have forced their beliefs and mythology on an innocent population, in much the same way our previous "empire" did. The only difference is this is still happening, and still supported by our governments..
"We", "westerners", created this problem.
"We" didn't "let them sort it out".
"We" sent 3.5 million westerner "immigrants", who had no intention of "assimilating".
On the contrary, they imposed their rules , and customs, and laws, on an unwilling population, and stole the land by force, and renamed it.
Given your views, and posting history, I just would have thought you might have a little more sympathy with their objections to that.

You've always seemed very interested in what's going on in Greece, France, Germany, Poland, and lots of other places.
-And this thread's about "muslims in America.
And yet, American "jews" still think they have the "right" to immigrate into a country stolen from other people, and completely taken over, and to treat the people who were the original inhabitants, appallingly.

What goes on, elsewhere in the world, affects us all.
Particularly wars, as you've already mentioned.
(Which I opposed)

Your "argument", about my use of words which I oppose is becoming both tedious, and infantile.
Should I respond by pointing out that you can't be an atheist, "because you've used the words religion, and islam "?
Do you "agree" with "islam", because you've used the word?
Is that "proof"??

I fully realise that my views on "race" and "tribe" are currently in a tiny minority, but that doesn't make them wrong.
And no, the Labour Party isn't a "tribe". You've misunderstood the meaning.
Words are interesting to me.
Have a good day.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 2497
view profile
History
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/23/2017 7:39:53 AM
Oor jo
I'm as happy as a pig in shite today. The football fixtures are out. Woo hoo.

Anyway. Yes i know religious tracts are based on what someone else wants you to believe. When i was a bairn the local minister the reverend ireland used to walk in the house and turn the tv off. Then my dad was told not to go back to the kirk because he worked on a communion sunday. (Church of Scotland).

My dad never went back to the kirk unless for a wedding or a funeral. And i never went either because i heard my dad saying putting food on the table was more important than listening to reverend ireland. It was in the mid 60's.

I have questioned christianity. As a bairn i never knew there was any other religion apart from catholics. Who were seen as an enemy. A mixed marriage up here then was not black and white but cathoilc and protestant. A question still asked up here is 'what foot do you kick with?'.

I see the israeli palestinian conflict. I watch and read the same as anyone else. I watched the lebanon get a kicking every time israel gets the hump. I watched young jews get killed for no other reason than they were jews. Yet islam and Judaism are not to far apart in my opinion.

I just cannot get concerned though. Our governments have supported both israel and saudi arabia. But not once have i ever had a government i have voted for (apart from Scottish govenment elections).

I mind a mate of mine from years back (he and his wife both went to oxford uni) had a pal who was in the israeli air force. The geezer told him israel was a good place for the shermans to try out new weapons in a combat situation.

You can believe your views are correct. Fair play to you. But your posts usually only pay lip service to the backwardness of islam. You are vocal on christianity and to a lesser extent judaism.

Thats why i constantly ask others on here if they class THEMSELVES as islamophobes. But they waffle shite and avoid the question. It is too difficult for them to answer. Because as they brand others as islamophobes they are by denying islam as a lifestyle choice for some they are no better
than the other posters they accuse.

And as we say in Edinburgh huv a barry day gadgie
 triblata
Joined: 6/11/2017
Msg: 2498
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/23/2017 8:24:04 AM
I.E. Herod, you dipshit.... not only do you want to inflict your beliefs on others... but you can't understand how or why other people don't think like you, do not concern themselves with things you think they should concern themselves with. The reason is simple... you are an obsessed, anti-Semitic, mentally ill fuk... and Vlad is a normal guy who has a normal interest in politics and concerns himself with things he should be concerned about... how national politics affects him. You want to meet other people who think like you.... go to some antisemitic, anti-israel hate site on the web, or better yet, visit an insane asylum. You will feel right at home. And take Elphaba with you.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 2499
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/23/2017 9:58:30 AM

You want to meet other people who think like you.... go to some antisemitic, anti-israel hate site on the web, or better yet, visit an insane asylum. You will feel right at home. And take Elphaba with you.


Well then triblucka you should fly El Al Israel Airlines so you can complain when you must sit next to a female as it is clear you have some hate in you.




Israeli Woman Who Sued El Al for Sexism Wins Landmark Ruling
By ISABEL KERSHNERJUNE 21, 2017

JERUSALEM — Israeli airline employees cannot ask women to change seats to spare a man from having to sit next to them, a Jerusalem court ruled on Wednesday, handing down a groundbreaking decision in a case brought by a woman in her 80s.

Strictly religious Jewish men who refuse to sit next to women, for fear of even inadvertent contact that could be considered immodest, are a growing phenomenon that has caused disruptions and flight delays around the world and prompted protests and social media campaigns. The pressure to switch seats can be particularly acute on El Al, Israel’s national airline. And the issue has become emblematic of a broader battle in Israel over religion and gender in public spaces.

The plaintiff in the lawsuit, Renee Rabinowitz, now 83, boarded El Al Flight 028, bound for Tel Aviv from Newark in December 2015. She had settled into her aisle seat in the business-class section when the passenger with the window seat showed up: an Orthodox man who complained about sitting next to a woman. A flight attendant asked her to change seats to accommodate him, and she gave in reluctantly.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/world/middleeast/israeli-woman-who-sued-el-al-for-sexism-wins-landmark-ruling.html?referer=https://www.google.com/
 triblata
Joined: 6/11/2017
Msg: 2500
Muslim in America
Posted: 6/23/2017 10:09:42 AM

Well then triblucka you should fly El Al Israel Airlines so you can complain when you must sit next to a female as it is clear you have some hate in you.


Low class, babbling as usual..... the LOL babbling doll will be part of the product line headed by the funchest babbling doll... I'm going to make a fortune.

Utter nonsense is interdependant on the relatedness of motivation, subcultures, and management.
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