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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal      Home login  
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 PennyAnte
Joined: 4/17/2016
Msg: 26
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Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternalPage 2 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
“Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.”
― Albert Einstein

Energy never dies and we are fundamentally energy.
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/29/2016 10:34:49 AM

Consciousness is "data" that is released back into the universe when a person or animal dies


The data is still there. Perhaps it can manifest itself in another being at another time


“Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.”
― Albert Einstein

Energy never dies and we are fundamentally energy.

An organism...and a great many other things...is defined by the arrangement of matter and energy - the data. Or information. Not simply the matter or energy itself. After death, the energy may still be there, transformed into other forms, but the data is gone as far as we know. If the data were still there, then we'd still be alive and conscious. On a certain fundamental level we are atoms, but just because atoms are still there doesn't mean that we are. Same for energy. If the data were magically still there after death...we have yet to know how the heck this could be let alone get even close to knowing that it is so.
 PennyAnte
Joined: 4/17/2016
Msg: 28
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Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/29/2016 11:45:02 AM
If people were not afraid of death they would not need religion or a "soul". That fear of dying makes people want to speculate and question and guess what happens after death. The truth is no one knows. I had a near death experience. I don't know if it was my "soul" or just the neurons in my brain firing off as my heart stopped and I flat lined.
The experience in itself did teach me however that it is useless to worry or wonder about death. I stopped questioning it even when my husband died. I do think sometimes he is contacting me from beyond but it is more of a comfort for my grief than a belief.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 29
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Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/29/2016 3:50:40 PM
halcyon_skies


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpUVot-4GPM


Awsome interview. Very enjoyable. thanks.
 pfif
Joined: 8/25/2013
Msg: 30
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Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/29/2016 4:13:57 PM
drink: nice post.

Whatever consciousness is, we carry it around with us -- where
we go, it goes. Where we do not go, it does not go. It can think
about where to go -- even places that do not exist.

But it cannot go there, since it is not an entity in itself.

It is a side-effect of brain function, primarily.

From fully-alert fighting a ninja (successfully) to profound
coma, the arousal state may vary; it is the same with animal
consciousness. Different creatures achieve different levels
of it (and it varies in individuals, temporally, as well).

The Universe progresses from a more-ordered state towards a
disordered state. The orderliness is also called 'information'.

It takes quite a bit of information to make a hominid live. DNA
is part of that (not just the hominid's DNA, but, for example, the
DNA of the plants the hominid eats to stave off disorder).

When a certain amount (and location, as it were) of disorder
is achieved by the human body, we refer to that event as the
(heat?) death of that body.

What lives after that (death) event, is the preserved information
that hominid gave out (to others) through their expressions (art,
music, conversation, constructions and artifacts built or made --
and so forth).

And, of course, offspring.
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/29/2016 4:37:16 PM

If people were not afraid of death they would not need religion or a "soul".

I'd agree that people would be happier if they faced and accepted their own inevitable death, and didn't spend their lives dreading it or being resentful of it. But, I think that different people have a variety of reasons other than death-fear for embracing religion. I also think that at least some people feel as if there may be a soul for reasons other than just wishing it were so.

I do think sometimes he is contacting me from beyond but it is more of a comfort for my grief than a belief.

Though it may be a bit rhetorical, or poetic in meaning...I feel that you can still be in touch with your husband even if he isn't still existent in some way in another realm.

What lives after that (death) event, is the preserved information
that hominid gave out (to others) through their expressions (art,
music, conversation, constructions and artifacts built or made --
and so forth).

And, of course, offspring.

We are more than ourselves, if we choose to be. Sometimes even if we don't choose to be.

The Universe progresses from a more-ordered state towards a
disordered state. The orderliness is also called 'information'.

I wouldn't say that this is accurate enough. In some ways, it progresses towards order. In other ways, it progresses towards disorder.

On the one hand, there was no life during the beginning times. And you didn't even have the variety of atoms then. On the other hand, though we may be closer to an entropy...life makes a trade-off with entropy, a barter, in order to be. And so life exists and persists.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 32
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/29/2016 5:57:53 PM
If asked: "Who is I?"
I would respond: "Who is asking the question?" As I could refer to anyone or any being.

Perhaps the correct question is, "What is I?", which leads to a definition of 'I' as 'the object of self-consciousness'.

Consciousness is the product of an internal system of differentiation between stimuli. Otherwise the being would receive the input without a proper method to process the data. Without a proper system of differentiation you cannot know self, other, or environment, a null node with zero potential to connect to the network of mind.

I see differences everywhere. It is the cause of everything, and nothing.
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/29/2016 6:54:05 PM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpUVot-4GPM
Awsome interview

Yes it was.

I'll comment in order per the vid:

- I kinda cringe whenever someone says that what produces consciousness, the brain, is "just meat"...meaning that there's an implied paradox such that physical matter cannot produce consciousness. I wonder why that is. Why people think this. Myself, I'm not bewildered by the fact that consciousness may be a product of a brain...I'm fascinated by the fact that I am in here, aware in my head, in the first place. Not that something called consciousness exists, as observable in another from the outside, but that I have mine and am here and aware within myself.

- When talking about machines and computers having awareness, and why we don't think they have any because it's more than simple computation activity...I keep suspecting that what's required is some degree of free will. Being an automaton, you simply "do" according to a simple cause-and-effect dynamic...but maybe there are successive thresholds of having an inner model of the external world, along with some capacity for reflecting on possible decisions, knowing what you're doing instead of just doing...degrees of free will...then awareness begins to emerge...and I blank out into space as I ponder what I'm trying to say here...aware that I might step into a circular-reasoning trap...

- When he's talking about some brain activity being per a classical Newtonian computer versus when your awareness is focused on something...I think of Daniel Dennett's idea that the experience of consciousness is simply as a spotlight onto what's presently the cognitive priority.

- He says that for conscious awareness we need something extra. Quantum mechanics. People are talking a lot about the quantum world for consciousness. But I suspect that this is simply the next level of our understanding of how everything works, not the magic place for consciousness. Of course, I don't know, and also suspect that there may be a quality of quantum mechanics which changes the game in this respect. If it turns out that the requirement for consciousness-emergence is simply an operations-per-second threshold, then since the quantum realm in our brains shows that we have more operations going on than previously thought, I guess that may be the big kahuna.

- I feel like saying that we shouldn't be trying so hard to figure out what makes consciousness, but instead figure out what it is in the first place. But I don't know if that even means anything for me to say that. Something is tickled in my mind when he mentions wave collapsing at the quantum level in the brain. Such that it may indeed be the magic place. Some dynamic which isn't ruled by simple un-deter-able cause-and-effect. But thinking about that makes it feel like at that level that we are indeed connected in some concrete special way to a fundamental reality of the universe, instead of being isolated by our separate-organism-self-ness. If my wording even communicates anything. Wave function collapsing per observation smacks of some free will quality. This makes me feel like I'm close to something, but I just can't grab onto it.

- At some point he makes me think that people who take certain drugs and go on trips may after all be tapping into something real and bigger. What a funny thought.

- I don't know what all of the "attacks" on their ideas were like...but I'd be tempted to scold him for claiming that he was a threat to others. Ideas are supposed to be kicked around, challenged, and tested. That's science.

- I myself find that I'm tempted to say that intelligence and consciousness...let me use the word 'awareness' here...are different things. But then when I imagine something being aware...how would it 'know'? What would it know? It seems like being aware, and knowing, are mutually required or the same. And knowing has to be intelligence. No? But then maybe it's that free will thing again. We can imagine something interacting with it's environment 'intelligently', but in an automaton kind of way. Is it experiencing some level of awareness? Is it capable of some kind of inner reflection, and is that required?

- Is some kind of language required (symbol manipulation)? This area is certainly interesting also. Before a child learns the fundamentals of language...what's going on in there? How akin to awareness is it...or different from?

- Previously in this thread I'd mentioned the problem of how data can persist after biological death...how it could happen and how we could know. If this guy is onto something real, then that could certainly address this. It sure as heck sounds like something real so far, as opposed to some fancy pseudo science. This does remind me of a thought I occasionally have - maybe whether or not we persist in this "afterlife" is if we choose it..."believe"...collapse that wave function or acknowledge this element of reality or whatever by doing so. And the (real) mission of (some) religion is to train us on how to do this...so that we may literally be 'saved', as opposed to truly ceasing to 'be' upon biological death.

- I've sometimes wondered if our biologically-dictated awakeness constricts our totality or total potential; Brings just a specific world-based awareness into focus. When he says that people who go on trips with certain drugs and their MRI's and EEG's show almost no activity...I wonder if this is evidence of that.
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/29/2016 7:23:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6di3u6m8Hc
 xlr8ingme
Joined: 11/2/2016
Msg: 35
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/29/2016 8:05:55 PM
I think we are physically a pile of matter from the earth, that returns to the earth. Our soul on the other hand is our own personal energy. Does that energy die when our physical body does? Does it get transformed into something else? I don't believe so, because that's my own personal spiritual opinion. I have faith and hope in GOD, because I believe I feel his energy within me. I don't need any other proof, even though there are countless threads on here about this. Many of us have extensively exhausted that subject for years. I agree with the OP, but for different reasons. I still stand by my first post in this thread. Those reasons don't matter to anyone but us.
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/30/2016 3:24:36 AM

...I don't believe so, because that's my own personal spiritual opinion. I have faith and hope in GOD, because I believe I feel his energy within me. I don't need any other proof, even though there are countless threads on here about this. Many of us have extensively exhausted that subject for years. I agree with the OP, but for different reasons. I still stand by my first post in this thread. Those reasons don't matter to anyone but us.

Whatever truth turns out to be herein, statements like this have always been so damned useless, unhelpful, and impotent. This is one of the things which hinders progress, and never helps anyone.
 xlr8ingme
Joined: 11/2/2016
Msg: 37
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/30/2016 7:51:27 AM
^ You certainly have the right to your personal opinions. I don't see how mine hinders anyone's personal progress.

Peace out peeps~ catch y'all sometime again.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 38
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/30/2016 9:42:34 AM
@xlr8

Don't let haters and cyberbullies belittle you; everyone's viewpoint has merit.

There is a considerable amount of reviews being published, you can search the topic "consciousness after death"

theghostdiaries.com/is-there-life-after-death-quantum-consciousness-and-beyond/
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 39
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 11/30/2016 4:12:10 PM

Consciousness is the product of an internal system of differentiation between stimuli. Otherwise the being would receive the input without a proper method to process the data. Without a proper system of differentiation you cannot know self, other, or environment, a null node with zero potential to connect to the network of mind.


too add to myself, this describes the purpose of the pineal gland, without it there would be no consciousness
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 40
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 12/1/2016 9:14:23 AM
Let me just mention to the Nay-sayers here, the skeptists, the know-it-alls.... nobody, absolutely nobody can adequately explain Consciousness...how or why it arises and where it goes, if anywhere, after death.

Because it is so mysterious . . . anything is possible. None of us have the answers. At least these scientists are trying to come up with some theories to explain it. . . which is far more than anybody here can do.

And would a computer develop consciousness even if it was a trillion times more powerful than today's computers? In a pigs eye as far as I am concerned. There is more to it than simply quantum computations.
 pfif
Joined: 8/25/2013
Msg: 41
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Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 12/1/2016 9:20:54 AM
OP: I'd look hard at Roger Penrose's most recent book (from Princeton University Press).

[a]http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10664.html[/a]

Reading Penrose will save you hundreds of hours of reading -- I think he makes his arguments rather explicit, in the new book (but they are by no means new arguments -- he's been saying so right along).
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 12/8/2016 12:42:19 AM
"Maybe, but there is insufficient evidence anyone has ever done so."

There's insufficient evidence that we don't have souls; considering the first law of thermodynamics, we change: we don't die.
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 12/8/2016 12:49:20 AM
According to the 2nd law of thermodynamics... We're not evolving either.

We're tending toward entropy.

That's why our globe is filled with structures, that we can't duplicate.
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 12/8/2016 4:33:29 AM
Yes. We change. Into a biologically dead form.

No. Not according to the 2nd law. Fail.
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 12/8/2016 9:54:16 AM
Oh, maybe I'm wrong.

Please explain how we've evolved into beings that are puzzled by the pyramids, and can't duplicate them?
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 12/8/2016 4:48:35 PM
You don't think that we could duplicate the pyramids? And that has what to do with questions about our mortality, or entropy, or evolution?
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 12/8/2016 7:39:00 PM
Evolution is living things getting better.
If we're getting better, why can't we duplicate technology our grandpas had thousands of years ago.
Entropy is deterioration. We can't duplicate the pyramids, because we're deteriorating, not evolving.
Mortality, is the belief that our physical bodies die.
But... biologists can't prove we ever had physical bodies.
So... since biologists can only find that our bodies are energy... I'm going with the laws of thermodynamics.
If you espouse evolution, consider how far we've fallen.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 48
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 12/8/2016 8:15:40 PM
^


Evolution is living things getting better.


No, evolution is living things adapting to a changing environment.
The process of evolution is a trade off; in that you acquire new capabilities, and you lose others you had.
Whales evolved from land mammals that migrated to acquatic environments.
They are better able to survive in a watery envirnment than their early ancestors, but far less able to survive on dry land.
The issue is not about getting better, it is about what works relative to your environment!
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 12/8/2016 8:45:11 PM
Assuming you're theory is right...
How would losing our ancient technology help us adapt to our environment?
We still move rocks to build after all these years. So how did forgetting how to move big rocks help us adapt to our environment?
 halcyon_skies
Joined: 7/27/2015
Msg: 50
Yes, there is Life after Death...the Soul is eternal
Posted: 12/9/2016 1:55:47 PM

Assuming you're theory is right...
How would losing our ancient technology help us adapt to our environment?
We still move rocks to build after all these years. So how did forgetting how to move big rocks help us adapt to our environment?


Let's assume we did possess advanced technology at one time---it couldn't have helped us adapt to our environment back then either, or we'd still have it today. Knowledge of advanced technology could have been harmful to our species if it were misused.
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