Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Has anyone had a premonition?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 151
Has anyone had a premonition? Page 7 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
That's ok that you are "lost," Jo Van.

We accept you as the emotionally irreligious wannabe comedian that you are.

You even make US laugh from time to time.

I must say, again, that you sure spend a lot of time studying what you despise.
Sounds more agnostic than atheist.

Not trying to convince you. You are doing a great job trying to convince yourself. All that studying the bible and everything.

That you are mincing the words of the bible makes it clear that you don't understand what it is all about.

Weren't you raised Jewish? Well, that is what you said a while back. Didn't you learn the whole peshat,sod , drush and remez thing?
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 152
view profile
History
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/10/2016 1:49:26 PM
Who is 'we' and what does being raised in a family that believes in whatever, have to do with an adults actions once living on their own? I did a lot of studying of the Bible, of religions, etc., that does not make me religious, it means I took the time to do research and and to figure out what I think, instead of parroting stuff I grew up hearing. I can't speak for Jo Van but I certainly know when someone is trying to sell me BS on a stick.
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 153
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/10/2016 1:58:37 PM
Jovan, you have made your case and we all get it. Your case is pretty simple to summarize and comes down to this:

1) The Theory of Evolution has been proven and therefore it stands to reason that all life on earth, all varieties, all types, spring from the same one celled organism that evolved over time and

2) There is no evidence of God...therefore there is no god.

With regard to Evolution..... common sense tells you that there was no need for that one celled organism to evolve into all of the various forms of complex life we now have on earth. That violates the theory of "keep it simple stupid". One cell organisms live under the ground, in boiling water at great depths and pressure under the oceans, in volcanoes and apparently even on meteorites which reach earth. The****roach will probably outlive us all. There was no reason that, through natural evolving, humankind would have made it on the scene. Far more complexity than needed. Nope, evolution does not explain the whole story.

With regard to the lack of evidence . . . so what. There are really two natural worlds we live in...one we understand and can investigate and one we don't understand and cannot investigate. Just because we can't prove it does not mean its not there. Given the mathematical precision of the Universe...attributing it all to chance and thus to likely chaos is ridiculous. And again, its almost as if the Universe required our existence, so we could observe the existence of the Universe. . . which is consistent with what has been found to apply in the Quantum World, and also consistent with Spinoza's view that essentially God and the Universe are the same thing.

So this is the thing. We all know you hate religion, you hate race, you believe that people are ignorant to believe in something more . . your world is really a sad place to live. You believe in nothing. You accept nothing. You are not awed by the wonders of the world or the Universe. It just happened as a consequence of time and the random nature of matter evolving into life and then into people. All in a pigs eye.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 154
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 4:24:59 AM

I must say, again, that you sure spend a lot of time studying what you despise.
Sounds more agnostic than atheist.

Nice try. Nope. Pure atheist.
If I had no knowledge of it, you'd say "you shouldn't criticise what you don't know about".
Or something similar.
I know more about it than the average person, who says they're a believer.
They don't even know about how much complete garbage there is, in their own "holy books".
Most people just say they're religious, for 'sociological' reasons.

That you are mincing the words of the bible makes it clear that you don't understand what it is all about.

1/. I'm not "mincing" anything. Those are direct quotes, and allegedly, "god's commands".
-There's a lot that are even more ridiculous.
Kill women, who've been raped.
Kill your children ,if they disobey you.
There's a whole lot of "commandments", allegedly, directly from "god", to kill people; non-believers, believers in other religions, people who work at weekends. All sorts.

2/. Nobody understands it, it's primitive gibberish.
"Priests" will tell you that: "that's all part of the mystery".
Ask 5 "priests", you'll get ten different "interpretations" of what any passage "really means".
Even though it's clearly, and directly, and unambiguously, "god commanding" people to kill.

Weren't you raised Jewish? Well, that is what you said a while back. Didn't you learn the whole peshat,sod , drush and remez thing?

Nope. Some other idiot assumed that, here.
I was "baptised" as an "Orthodox catholic". Went to sunday school (C of E), and then a C of E 'grammar' school. Back then, all schools had to have a religious affiliation; catholic, C of E, terrorist, etc.
We had "Religious Education", I think, at least once, every day, for at least one 'lesson', and some days, "Double RE" (About an hour and a half). (By law, I think)
There was no "critical thinking" allowed.
We were taught 'by rote', and we were taught all that shit, as if it were "fact".
"jesus walked on the water", "loaves and fishes", raising the dead, making a tiger disappear, turning beer into urine, and many, many other magic tricks, that, and all the other religious fairy tales, and 'folk myths' were taught, as if they were actual, 'documented', historical events.
Like all children, we trusted adults to provide us with accurate and reliable information.
I had a mate who went to the catholic equivalent, and that was much worse.
Nuns and priests there, They beat the children, hard, and often. They claimed it was "good for them".
They probably "believed" that too.
- Or they might just have been your regular, run-of-the-mill, sadistic, child-molesting fvcks.
I suppose only "god" really knows that..

Not that my past has anything to do with debate. It's just more 'ad hominem'. As usual.
I suspect Dee's 'line of questioning' is only because she really wants to know if my foreskin's still intact.

Mr Fund,

1) The Theory of Evolution has been proven and therefore it stands to reason that all life on earth, all varieties, all types, spring from the same one celled organism that evolved over time and

It's not because "it stands to reason", but because the DNA analysis would seem to indicate that, as I pointed out in an earlier post.

In July 2016, scientists reported identifying a set of 355 genes from the Last Universal Common Ancestor (LUCA) of all organisms living on Earth.[57] This research, published by William F. Martin, genetically sequenced 6.1 million protein coding genes from sequenced prokaryotic genomes of various phylogenic trees, identified 355 protein clusters from amongst 286,514 protein clusters, that were probably common to LUCA. The results "depict LUCA as anaerobic, CO2-fixing, H2-dependent with a Wood–Ljungdahl pathway, N2-fixing and thermophilic. LUCA’s biochemistry was replete with FeS clusters and radical reaction mechanisms. Its cofactors reveal dependence upon transition metals, flavins, S-adenosyl methionine, coenzyme A, ferredoxin, molybdopterin, corrins and selenium. Its genetic code required nucleoside modifications and S-adenosylmethionine-dependent methylations." The results depict methanogenic clostria as a basal clade in the 355 phylogenies examined, and suggest that LUCA inhabited an anaerobic hydrothermal vent setting in a geochemically active environment rich in H2, CO2 and iron.[58]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis


With regard to Evolution..... common sense tells you that there was no need for that one celled organism to evolve into all of the various forms of complex life we now have on earth. That violates the theory of "keep it simple stupid".

1/. Read about genetic mutation. It happens all the time. It's how "evolution" works.
2/. There is no "theory" to "violate".
Organisms have evolved to become progressively more complex, since the very beginning of evolution.
"KISS" was invented regarding teaching, or giving presentations, it doesn't apply to naturally occurring mutations.
Where are you getting this stuff?

There was no reason that, through natural evolving, humankind would have made it on the scene. Far more complexity than needed. Nope, evolution does not explain the whole story.

There's no "reason", or "need" for evolution, it's just an observed phenomenon.

Every stage of evolution is known, and supported with evidence. From the first, (simple, but growing ever-more "complex") creatures, which first crawled onto land, through to the emergence of the first mammals, and on down to us.
And there are still some 'anomalies', 'caught between stages', like the platypus, or 'lungfish', snakes with vestigial 'legs' etc etc., ALL alive today, to prove it.

Evolution's a 'done deal'.
You need to "let it go".


So this is the thing. We all know you hate religion, you hate race,

You can't really "hate" a belief, can you?
I just think both were stupid mistakes.

you believe that people are ignorant to believe in something more .

Education is a wonderful thing.
I would always encourage it, IMO it's better to know more.. and to base your "beliefs" on what we do know, and not what they thought, 3,000 years ago.

"Belief" has been used as some sort "proof of goodness".
It's not. I'm sure you don't need examples.

your world is really a sad place to live.

How do you know? Do you live there?

You believe in nothing. You accept nothing. You are not awed by the wonders of the world or the Universe.

Cut the 'ad hominem' BS. It adds nothing to your 'argument'
I accept evidence.
I believe many things, they're listed on my profile.
The world I inhabit is full of wonder. It fascinates me, and always did.
I've tried to find out a little bit, about most of it.
There's so little time, and so much to learn.

Evolution has given us the divergence of animal and plant species which make up most of that wonder.
Something which you wont accept, or believe in, or maybe, from your posts, you just have no knowledge of it.

Did you know that every single butterfly, from any single species, is completely identical?
- Every spot, every single smudge of colour, every seemingly random, ragged edge to the wings.
-And that when it pupates, as a caterpillar, prior to metamorphosis, the whole thing turns to a sort of 'soup', apart from some vital organs, the heart etc., but it remains alive, as a soup, and then, it reconstructs the molecules and matter into a new, and completely dissimilar form; the butterfly.
All due to evolution.

There used to be dragonflies, with 3' wingspans.
-Imagine that hitting your windscreen..

Facts: More awesome than fiction, and more wonderful than wibble and woo.
I strongly suggest you familiarise yourself with some.

Catch up.
Start with Darwin, and then work forwards, til you arrive at the present.
It's 2016 now.
-See you in about 2026, you should be done by then.
Have a pleasant Sunday.
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 155
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 5:10:16 AM
Why did dragonflies become smaller?
I don't always believe in Science - I can cite Elizabeth Holmes and her formulation chemists as an example"/
But it riles people when you mock their beliefs. Religion, child rearing, all of it.
I believe I will treat myself to onion rings. You can't shake my faith in that. So indeed it will be a pleasant Sunday
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 156
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 7:28:18 AM
I have a premonition that Jo Van will once again fulminate about religion.

Thanks again JoVan for another example of the angry atheist discussed in that article.

You never fail to do your part.

(What's interesting, in all this talk about "religion as fantasy," is that you live in a fantasy and have assumed the identity of a British person who probably died. The current "Jo Van" is about as British as I am. I am sure that one of your many other incarnations will shortly appear to do the "he has been here a long time and I know him" shuffle. To anyone who knows actual British people - it is obvious. I guess the new you doesn't know much about judaism so you can't remain jewish in this version)


I am going to have an omelette myself.

Interesting article ON TOPIC.
""""""""Premonition may be a biological process in people a new study claims.

Researchers at Northwestern University found that our subconscious mind may know when a deck of cards is stacked against us despite having no external clues.

Study authors said that previous studies had shown that the subconscious mind may know more than the conscious mind.

However, few serious studies had been done previously to assess the possibility of premonition or, the ability to see into the future.

"What hasn't been clear is whether humans have the ability to predict future important events even without any clues as to what might happen," said study author Julia Mossbridge, research associate in the Visual Perception, Cognition and Neuroscience Laboratory, reported ABC News.

The study looked at previous research dating between 1978 and 2010.

Participants in the mainstream psychological studies saw serious changes to their heart, brain waves and skin up to 10 seconds before experiencing a stimuli they didn't know was coming, said ABC News.

This suggests that they were subconsciously anticipating something that would provoke them.

Indeed, these reactions occurred without any external stimuli or clues.

Mossbridge gave an example of a person playing a video game at work with the boss just about to enter the door.

Somehow the person closes the game on time."""""
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 157
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 10:19:11 AM

(What's interesting, in all this talk about "religion as fantasy," is that you live in a fantasy and have assumed the identity of a British person who probably died.

If you had any left, I think you've just lost the rest of your marbles.
Seriously?
You think I'm impersonating someone dead, to post on a forum
That's a pretty 'sick' accusation Dee.
And ever so slightly erm..... well.... delusional.

The current "Jo Van" is about as British as I am.

Get a grip Dee. I can point you to posts I made, 7 years ago.
And back then, I did meet up with some of the other posters, from the UK forum.
(It was much busier then) I've always been the same me.

I am sure that one of your many other incarnations will shortly appear to do the "he has been here a long time and I know him" shuffle.

I have, and have never had, any other "incarnations" here.
I know that some people do that, but I have never 'needed' to, as I never got (completely) 'banned', nor have I ever felt so inclined.
"Trapped", Miss Alison, or the late™ "cowboy" could vouch for me, as well as banning your apse, in a heartbeat, for your going all 'ad-hominem', on my apse.
You wouldn't have lasted for 5 minutes, back then.

You need to calm down. Maybe go for a walk, and clear your head.
I am genuinely becoming concerned about your health.

To anyone who knows actual British people - it is obvious.

Well, that's clearly, not you!


I guess the new you doesn't know much about judaism so you can't remain jewish in this version)

The "old" me never knew very much about it either. Just what I've read.
Did you have a nasty dream? A bang on the head?

I'm flabbergasted.
I can't take anything you say seriously now.
-Not that I ever much did.
I just never realised the seriousness of your 'condition', until now.
Step away from the keyboard Dee, you're getting paranoid delusions.
Talk to someone 'real',
I'm just a disembodied stranger, from another country, on the internet, who doesn't agree with you.
There's no conspiracy here.
HTH
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 158
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 10:42:31 AM
I was curious about your question Quija.

I found this:

"""""""Giant insects ruled the prehistoric skies during periods when Earth's atmosphere was rich in oxygen. Then came the birds. After the evolution of birds about 150 million years ago, insects got smaller despite rising oxygen levels, according to a new study by scientists at the University of California, Santa Cruz.

Insects reached their biggest sizes about 300 million years ago during the late Carboniferous and early Permian periods. This was the reign of the predatory griffinflies, giant dragonfly-like insects with wingspans of up to 28 inches (70 centimeters). The leading theory attributes their large size to high oxygen concentrations in the atmosphere (over 30 percent, compared to 21 percent today), which allowed giant insects to get enough oxygen through the tiny breathing tubes that insects use instead of lungs.

The new study takes a close look at the relationship between insect size and prehistoric oxygen levels. Matthew Clapham, an assistant professor of Earth and planetary sciences at UC Santa Cruz, and Jered Karr, a UCSC graduate student who began working on the project as an undergraduate, compiled a huge dataset of wing lengths from published records of fossil insects, then analyzed insect size in relation to oxygen levels over hundreds of millions of years of insect evolution. Their findings are published in the June 4 online early edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS)."""""

http://news.ucsc.edu/2012/06/giant-insects.html

Heading to a Messiah performance.

Yeah, yeah. I know, I know, LOL.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 159
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 10:59:22 AM
If we evolved to the physical status we have now, b/c our ancestors with desireable physical traits lived to procreate and those without did not...premonitions should be a desireable trait and maybe should be more prevalent if it exists. However, maybe we can just live life without it, so its not prevalent. What about animals living in hostile environments, perhaps they have more premonitions.

I used to be a guy who looked up stuff on the 'net while the boss was on lunch. i'd get premonitions, but I was wrong more than I was right. And the times I was right--looking back it all now--likely had as much to do with the fact that, being the computer dude, bosses needed things from me and came looking. In other words, there was a matter of timing, and I could "guess correctly".
 2ufo2
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 160
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 11:11:29 AM
^^^
If premonitions were a desirable trait, then they probably got burnt out during the ages of witch burning and black plague.

I think most premonitions are simply attention (the reason it's really hard to sneak up on a wild animal) and subliminal cues.
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 161
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 11:56:31 AM
Jovan.... let me summarize again what you believe....all happening randomy, all happening by chance:

1) The Universe spontaneously erupted in a big bang, possibly by one bubble universe colliding with another (there is a term used in Scientific American referring to a BRANE, colliding with another BRANE, resulting in the big bang)

2) Purely by chance, the Universe had all of the right laws to allow the creation of all of the matter in the Universe, including the stars, which of course allowed for light and warmth to erupt in a previously dark and cold universe.

3) Than of course our world happened to be created by endless collision of dust particles in just the right spot from the sun to allow for life.

4) Then inert objects congealed to result in life and that life ultimately evolved into man, and you just happened to evolve too . . . along with consciousness and everything else (consciousness.. sentience, itself being unexplainable), including all of the other species out there that live or ever lived..

I don't know what the probabilities of this all happening randomly are but I am guessing trillions to the trillionth power to one . . .

That means really only two possibilities:

1) There must be an infinite number of universes out there that are being created over an infinite period of time and we just happen to live in that universe where everything turned out just right so that you and I were born and given access to a computer so we could communicate with one another. We are here for a nano second of course and will be gone . . . . except because of the infinite number of universes out there, there is undoubtedly an infinite number of parallel universes and there are an infinite number of you and mes going through this gyration at this very moment (though an infinite number of dimensions away from here). In some of those Universes, hopefully, Trump lost the election and will not be facing the destruction we in this universe will be facing.

OR FAR MORE LIKELY:

The Universe is God itself and our life and consciousness is inextricably woven into the fabric of the Time-Space continuum.

I believe that number two is the more likely option . . . based on the quantum world.... The Universe created us so we could observe the Universe. I cannot say of course how many other peoples live through out the Universe or the MultiVerses, but I am guessing an infinite amount of peoples, as it would only make sense given enough time and space.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 162
view profile
History
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 12:15:29 PM
Which god? And when was the last time you actually followed the so-called rules of whatever god you are going on about?
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 163
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 3:01:30 PM
Rules? That's for religions. Did I ever say I bought into religion or a personal god who gives us rules? You want me to select a god? Is there a god store where I can choose the god I prefer? I guess I don't understand how you can read into things I never said.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 164
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 4:37:55 PM
that's an interesting point about the witch trials (tho if anyone would have premonitions, it should have been the victims of the trial :) ). Whether they were designed to take land from widows or spread the power of religion, the trials may have convinced people with actual premonition powers to keep quiet about it. But I would think they still would have procreated and otherwise used their ability to do well economically--who could resist that ability to help out their children? Assuming the power exists with any strength. Perhaps it never had a chance to grow, against the power of the early Church? A fight of Wicca versus Rome?

http://people.ucls.uchicago.edu/~snekros/Salem%20Journal/Aftermath/SamMSamF.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trials_in_the_early_modern_period

I do agree with the last sentence, that premonitions are simply an acute awareness. Most humans are too self focused or going thru daily activities on autopilot to look at a situation brewing and consider where it may go. Perhaps there is some universal "Cable wire" for us to connect to, but our lives are so short compared to the existence of the universe, are we individually so important to be able to tap into it? We may not have any greater value than the grass and trees that sustain animal life and hold down the soil against the rain and wind.


We teach Koko the gorilla sign language, and when Koko learns to lie, we think he's like us. Yet we descended from his ancestors, perhaps we lie like him.

http://www.naturalnews.com/038743_primates_liars_gorilla.html
 forumslady
Joined: 12/7/2016
Msg: 165
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 10:46:51 PM
Nancybythebay- At risk of sounding like I'm joking, this can be considered a kind of "spidey sense".
I believe in this and have learned to listen to it.
When something yells out at you, that tells you "this isn't good", or "this is good", I think you should pay attention.
Humans are on top of the food chain for a reason.
Call it what ever you want.............Your gut, your instinct, a premonition, whatever.
The point is, when someone feels something that strongly, they SHOULD pay attention to it!
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 166
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/11/2016 11:38:06 PM
Just a note, GTO--Koko's a girl.

And my dog tries to lie, so it's not human, nor even just primate. . . .
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 167
view profile
History
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/12/2016 3:58:00 AM

Call it what ever you want.............Your gut, your instinct, a premonition, whatever.
The point is, when someone feels something that strongly, they SHOULD pay attention to it!

I would advise against always going by that gut feeling. People's gut instinct is quite wrong very often.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 168
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/12/2016 5:20:46 AM

Jovan.... let me summarize again what you believe....all happening randomy, all happening by chance:

Things do happen "randomly".
Particles collide, randomly.
Meteors collide, randomly.
Lightning strikes, randomly.
People meet, randomly.
There is no "plan", there never was.
Chance plays a big part. And more of a part in evolution too, than most people suppose.
You might be the "most-evolved" and "best adapted" living creature on a planet, and then BOOM! meteor strike, and you're extinct, and maybe only the really 'stupid' evolutions survive.


1) The Universe spontaneously erupted in a big bang, possibly by one bubble universe colliding with another (there is a term used in Scientific American referring to a BRANE, colliding with another BRANE, resulting in the big bang)

"Brane" is short for "membrane", and used in "String Theory".
I'd love to see your evidence of this alleged theory/version of the Big Bang.
I think it's more likely that it was a black hole, reaching 'critical mass/density'. We know what happens when you 'split the atom', maybe something even bigger happens, when you try to 'moosh' ALL the atoms, together.
We just don't know. YET.

2) Purely by chance, the Universe had all of the right laws to allow the creation of all of the matter in the Universe, including the stars, which of course allowed for light and warmth to erupt in a previously dark and cold universe.

The universe didn't exist, as such, before the matter was created, by the big bang.
And the "laws"? Well, that's just US, trying to figure out how it all works.
We like to find patterns.
Nobody "designed" the way it all works.

If you have to attribute everything to "an intelligent god", then you're straying dangerously close to "the boxing day tsunami was god's wrath, for homosexuality" territory.

It means that "god" has deliberately killed people.
It means that there's no "randomness" to where tornadoes strike, or "spontaneous abortions"/ "miscarriages", or any genetically- inherited conditions.
If you deny "purely by chance", then you deny that ever happens, anywhere.

3) Than of course our world happened to be created by endless collision of dust particles in just the right spot from the sun to allow for life.

4) Then inert objects congealed to result in life and that life ultimately evolved into man, and you just happened to evolve too . . . along with consciousness and everything else (consciousness.. sentience, itself being unexplainable), including all of the other species out there that live or ever lived..

I don't know what the probabilities of this all happening randomly are but I am guessing trillions to the trillionth power to one . . .

It's happening all over the cosmos.
We are watching galaxies forming.
Some will have suns, and some will have plates, around those suns, and some will contain what we currently know to be, the "correct" conditions for life.
But it's also possible that we don't (yet) know all the different forms of life which can exist.

That means really only two possibilities:

1) There must be an infinite number of universes out there that are being created over an infinite period of time and we just happen to live in that universe where everything turned out just right so that you and I were born and given access to a computer so we could communicate with one another. We are here for a nano second of course and will be gone . . . . except because of the infinite number of universes out there, there is undoubtedly an infinite number of parallel universes and there are an infinite number of you and mes going through this gyration at this very moment (though an infinite number of dimensions away from here). In some of those Universes, hopefully, Trump lost the election and will not be facing the destruction we in this universe will be facing.

OR FAR MORE LIKELY:

The Universe is God itself and our life and consciousness is inextricably woven into the fabric of the Time-Space continuum.

I believe that number two is the more likely option . . . based on the quantum world.... The Universe created us so we could observe the Universe. I cannot say of course how many other peoples live through out the Universe or the MultiVerses, but I am guessing an infinite amount of peoples, as it would only make sense given enough time and space.

That's one of those there 'false dichotomies', I suspect.
I'm pretty sure there are more than just "two possibilities".

The universe did "create us", or more accurately, we are 'products' of the universe.
But we don't exist for any sort of "purpose".

The fact that we can observe the universe, is simply because of the senses, which our species have evolved.
-Including intelligence, the ability for abstract thought, the ability to plan ahead, and to remember, and learn, and extrapolate, and to spot "patterns", and the ability to use those abilities, to adapt, and survive , and to hunt more successfully, and to find food sources, and store them efficiently, in a changing environment/climate, or to migrate to less hostile environments.
We noticed stuff, the other monkeys didn't notice, and we remembered.

We're just the monkey, who mastered tools, and living in caves, and keeping warm, by wearing the skins of the animals we hunted, and mastering fire, and building ever more complex and efficient shelters.
Eventually, we stopped being hunter-gatherers, and mastered agriculture, and 'animal husbandry', and built settlements, instead. (Although there are still some nomadic HG groups)

There was no "purpose". Just a natural progression.
We're really not as 'important' as you'd like to think.

"God is a concept.... by which, we measure our pain" ~John Lennon.
Have a nice day
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 169
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/12/2016 6:14:14 AM
Up til about 5 years ago I would see larger dragonflies, now this Summer they were tiny :(
But I've no idea while this thread became about is there a God.
Back outside to become one with my shovel
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 170
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/12/2016 6:22:29 AM
"Just a note, GTO--Koko's a girl. "

oops, my bad. Oh wait, it explains everything--all female animals lie :) lol

did Eve lie about the apple?
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 171
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/12/2016 1:54:30 PM

Posted By: Tomfiend
The Universe is God itself and our life and consciousness is inextricably woven into the fabric of the Time-Space continuum.

that belief is Pantheism...see you do follow a religion ...it's also that same religion as the Jedi.... as Yoda would say "a Spinoza fan I see"


Posted By: Tomfiend
Is there a god store where I can choose the god I prefer?

you can check out "Gods are Us", they only charge ten percent of your annual income ..and of course your immortal soul
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 172
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/12/2016 2:10:28 PM
^^^Find out which one has the least cruel version of Hell, in case you go in the opposite direction.
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 173
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/12/2016 2:15:58 PM

.see you do follow a religion


I suppose you are going to have to define religion. That I see more than just random chance behind our existence, I can only attribute that to a superior being. Seems to me Spinoza has as much to say about this as anyone. Religion however, as suggested by other folk, has mandatory rules and regulations and requirements and obligations. I don't "pray" to a God because I don't believe there is any God out there listening . . . which is why I do not attribute bad things happening to good people as the will of God and why I do not believe in a "personal" God.

As Jovan says, that is only the randomness of life at play, or alternatively . . . determinism in play, if you buy into the possibility the future is already set in stone. Some scientists of course believe exactly that. That past, present and future all exist at the same time, merely in different dimensions. That we have no say in the way things play out because we merely are following the script. Is this a script devised by God or simply by the laws of physics? That one I don't really have an opinion about. Do we have free will? I suppose that determines if the future knew what we were going to decide in the present and acted accordingly. Remember, quantum physics has proven that the present is affected by the future, at least at the quantum level . . . so something is at play here.

At any rate . . . Jovan's problems with religion is that people believe all sorts of things, believe they are right and kill and ostracize others for not having that belief. I tend to think that religion brings peace and happiness to people, at least people who are free to practice their religion as they choose or not choose....

So I respectfully disagree that believing in God makes me religious. I believe in God. I do not believe in Religion, at least for my self. That's the best I can explain it.

As for believing the Universe and God are the same . . . that simply makes the most sense to me. I believe there is one great consciousness.... sort of like the Borg, and that we all share a little piece of that consciousness while inhabiting our earthly bodies. But consciousness cannot be created and cannot be destroyed. It is all part of the One . . and I guess you can define that One as God.

By the way, looking at Wiki ..Pantheism....
Some hold that pantheism is a non-religious philosophical position. To them, pantheism is the view that the Universe (in the sense of the totality of all existence) and God are identical (implying a denial of the personality and transcendence of God).


I guess I could be put here....
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 174
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/12/2016 3:01:20 PM
Haven't seen the word random used so much
Reminds me of the scene when Steve Martin is working at the gas station and the killer selects him from the phone book.
Just google The Jerk, its a classic movie moment
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 175
view profile
History
Has anyone had a premonition?
Posted: 12/12/2016 4:00:09 PM
He hates these cans! (Navin R. Johnson)
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Has anyone had a premonition?