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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > There's no such thing as an "atheist."      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 376
There's no such thing as an atheist.Page 16 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)

why would you believe in something of which you have evidence of? isn't that the opposite of a belief?

and yes you can believe in nothing itself, as a thing in itself, it is still a belief


believe-accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of.

Belief-an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

You keep trying to be mystical and redefine words and it's kind of tiresome to even bother at this point. You're intellectually dishonest and it's beyond a point where both you and everyone else is aware of it.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 377
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 3:19:17 AM
^
this makes anything that is thought to be true a belief, it shouldn't include everything or everything of one thing(everything that is said to be true is a belief), because then it just loses its meaning(because then truth = belief), for example if everyone were atheist then theism and atheism itself would lose their meaning, just as if everyone were male only, there wouldnt be a word for male because there would be nothing to differentiate it against (female) to allow us to come up with the concept (male), otherwise by your definition, all truths are beliefs, but mathematical truths requires no beliefs, yet it is all true, otherwise you are just substituting belief with think, they have an relationship but they are not equal, try again
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 378
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 3:49:16 AM

Okay, I cut into this one, but it is of course down the rational route to believe in something in which there is evidence


'believing in something/someone' isn't equal to 'a belief of something'

'believing in something' is more of a comprehension of, knowing the probability, possibilities, or capability of something, etc, its another way of saying "I know you can do it, I believe in you man",


If you're assuming full provable evidence on something -- yes, of course you should believe it

if you substitute believe with acknowledge, the sentence still keeps its integrity

'I have a belief of you', and 'I believe in you' mean totally different things, 'I have a belief of you' means that they have a thought about you that they cannot prove at least yet, and 'I believe in you' again means I think you are capable of something, whether they calculated risk/probabilities or not, it is usually backed up with rational thought / evidence of some kind, otherwise if one were to say 'i believe in you' without backing it up with rational thought then it loses its meaning, like "I think that I believe in you... I think"
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 379
view profile
History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 3:51:16 AM
Sometimes I think that threads like this should be titled "Abbott and Costello, The Three Stooges, & Looney Tunes / Merrie Melodies".

But this particular Pink Panther comes to mind also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y3lt2oWh_0
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 380
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 7:20:58 AM

Posted By: norwegianguy456
The word "theism" technically came first if you're using a stopwatch, immediately followed by the concept of non-theism aka the word atheism. Basically the same time.

you're making assumptions unless you can explain why Agnosticism and/or Anti-theist-ism wouldn't have rose before Atheism ...


Posted By: norwegianguy456
Much like bacterial, thus abacterial. Same answer to your question there, as with any word where "a" before the word applies

why do you keep using this example when you know that everything has bacteria on it or in it


Posted By: norwegianguy456
No. You're not reading what I wrote correctly.

that's what happens when you write in parables or try to mix physics with faith


Posted By: norwegianguy456
Title? Referring to oneself as not being a soccer fan isn't giving oneself a Title --

since you insist on mixing apples and oranges therefore someone that is not a soccer fan would have the title of "a-soccer-ist" ...

the deeply devoted soccer fans would refer to those that are non-soccer as being unmanly, wimps, sports-less ...to spare yourself from the name calling is why you would refer to yourself as an a-soccer-ist a title which is appeasing to both soccer fans and non-soccer fans and approved by ESPN

the same with non-believers...instead of being called Heathen, Satan's Helper or Infidel which are names that incite violence the Title of Atheist is now used which appease both believers and non-believers and a Title approved by The Vatican

This is why referring to oneself as an Atheist is the same as placing a Scarlet Letter on one's forehead
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 381
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 7:40:16 AM

^
this makes anything that is thought to be true a belief, it shouldn't include everything or everything of one thing(everything that is said to be true is a belief), because then it just loses its meaning(because then truth = belief), for example if everyone were atheist then theism and atheism itself would lose their meaning, just as if everyone were male only, there wouldnt be a word for male because there would be nothing to differentiate it against (female) to allow us to come up with the concept (male), otherwise by your definition, all truths are beliefs, but mathematical truths requires no beliefs, yet it is all true, otherwise you are just substituting belief with think, they have an relationship but they are not equal, try again


The above statement is some abbott and costello mess that makes no sense whatsoever to anyone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg The only difference is they are funny even 60 years later and you just aren't.

believe-accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of.

Belief-an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

These are the definitions of those two words you're using. It's not open for debate as to the definition of words. That means everything you have said both quoted above and below and probably ever is complete incoherent and utter nonsense.




why would you believe in something of which you have evidence of? isn't that the opposite of a belief?

and yes you can believe in nothing itself, as a thing in itself, it is still a belief


So either start making sense or stfu because you're no different than the op and there is no need in anyone responding to nonsense. Can't spell it out any better than that.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 382
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 10:19:31 AM
^ everything you just said is complete and utter nonsense, see what I did there?

do you know how to conduct an argument?

belief synonyms: opinion, view, conviction, judgment, thinking, way of thinking, idea, impression, theory, conclusion, notion. That damn sure as hell narrows it down. Eh, no it doesn't.

your definition (stolen from google):an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists:

Math requires no belief, I don't need to believe that statement "1+1=2" to be true, it just is, with or without my belief, stop using google to think for you.

Also language is NOT built upon axioms, there are no absolute definitions, also language evolves, and changes, it isnt STATIC FOREVER to be as is, it will ALWAYS change, again because it is NOT built upon axioms.

And yes all definitions are up for debate, this is why language evolves and does not remain static as you inclined yourself to believe so( the proof is in the evolution of language in history)

Your definition requires you to define true, which you havent, therefore, IT IS AN INCOMPLETE DEFINITION, stop copying and pasting shit, and saying your right cause you got it off google

/swag
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 383
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 10:58:45 AM
Ok let's use your own synonyms of the word to decipher your statements.


^
this makes anything that is thought to be true a belief, it shouldn't include everything or everything of one thing(everything that is said to be true is a belief), because then it just loses its meaning(because then truth = belief), for example if everyone were atheist then theism and atheism itself would lose their meaning, just as if everyone were male only, there wouldnt be a word for male because there would be nothing to differentiate it against (female) to allow us to come up with the concept (male), otherwise by your definition, all truths are beliefs, but mathematical truths requires no beliefs, yet it is all true, otherwise you are just substituting belief with think, they have an relationship but they are not equal, try again



why would you believe in something of which you have evidence of? isn't that the opposite of a belief?

and yes you can believe in nothing itself, as a thing in itself, it is still a belief



belief synonyms: opinion, view, conviction, judgment, thinking, way of thinking, idea, impression, theory, conclusion, notion. That damn sure as hell narrows it down.


"Why would you have an opinion of something of which you have no evidence of? isn't that the opposite of a opinion? "-makes no sense
"why would you have a view of something you have no evidence of? isn't that the opposite of a view?"-makes no sense
ect.ect.ect.


your definition (stolen from google):an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists:


Pulling definitions from a common place to lock down the word meaning in order to decipher your nonsense is letting something think for me?


And yes all definitions are up for debate, this is why language evolves and does not remain static as you inclined yourself to believe so( the proof is in the evolution of language in history)


Someone who is being intellectually honest would have no problem stating a word and defining what they mean by the word. You can't debate the ideas if you're busy debating the definitions and trying to hide the fact your full of sh!t by changing the definitions of the words.


Your definition requires you to define true, which you havent, therefore, IT IS AN INCOMPLETE DEFINITION, stop copying and pasting shit, and saying your right cause you got it off google


I'll stop copying and pasting when you stop pretending to be mystical and in possession of beyond human accessible knowledge by typing utter nonsense and refusing to clarify by defining and sticking to those definitions.


At the end of the day you're a liar and too intellectually dishonest to have a simple conversation with. So if it makes you feel better to type complete nonsense and walk away like you're in possession of some sort of mystical knowledge we all don't know because you're so much better than everyone else then have at it buddy.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 384
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History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 11:44:41 AM

you're making assumptions unless you can explain why Agnosticism and/or Anti-theist-ism wouldn't have rose before Atheism ...

Not making assumptions on usage or socially applied terms and when they started... I made that clear. The point is, the term apolitical comes about when political is formed. It's basics about language, not an assumption.

why do you keep using this example when you know that everything has bacteria on it or in it

That's not true, but for all practical purposes in our every day lives, you're correct. I use it as a common term, like apolitical. Putting the "a" in front of a term means "non". Point is, it doesn't have it's own individual origin as a valid word. It's immediately feeding off another.

that's what happens when you write in parables or try to mix physics with faith

Like examples? Okay - lol. I'm not talking about faith, I'm talking about language. You seem to be the one when making examples putting something faith-based (the center point of the thread) as if not just beliefs about the universe changes but language does.

the deeply devoted soccer fans would refer to those that are non-soccer as being unmanly, wimps, sports-less

Oh sure. If a deeply devoted soccer fan overheard someone say they weren't a soccer fan, They could apply a title/label to that certain someone, sure. One could apply a title/label to anyone for any reason, even someone they don't know, even if riding off assumption, too. No limitations on that.

instead of being called Heathen, Satan's Helper or Infidel which are names that incite violence the Title of Atheist is now used which appease both believers and non-believers and a Title approved by The Vatican

Atheist is not a bad word, in and of itself. ALL that it Truly means is non-theist. But atheist's alternative definition ("street definition") amongst many people is not so accurate. Hence, regular Joes who are not theistic will steer away from that term -- and many who are non-theistic will also go by the false street definition to think it means anti-theist, which most non theistic people are not.

This is why referring to oneself as an Atheist is the same as placing a Scarlet Letter on one's forehead

It's the widely (but falsely) assumed/used street definition that does that. :)

'believing in something' is more of a comprehension of, knowing the probability, possibilities, or capability of something, etc, its another way of saying "I know you can do it, I believe in you man",

I get it has a different context and can mean something different, but they're not at all necessarily Opposing positions though. If you I say "I know you can do it, I believe in you man," sure, I may not say that to Mike Tyson in his prime when having to fight some random 160lb guy walking down the street. BUT, it is true. If Tyson was going to do that and a friend asked me "Do you know he can do it? Do you believe in him to do it? I got $1,000 riding on this...," I would say YES. I wouldn't say "Oh, well, No, I don't believe in him nor know he can do it," -- I would instead say "Well, I don't JUST believe in him to be able to do it, I *also* KNOW he can do it. DUDE, it's Tyson! That' guy's like 160 pounds and his GF beat him up last week!" Belief doesn't contradict Know, is my point.

I think Leaving something at "I believe in you man" does Not imply you Know he Will succeed in what you're referring to. By our Culture, left alone, it Implies there's warrantable doubt... only because you didn't anything More.

'I have a belief of you' means that they have a thought about you that they cannot prove at least yet,

It can, but Not necessarily is my point. Depends on what's implied and things surrounding that statement, and it's just cultural interpretation. I have a belief of the sky being blue on a sunny, cloudless, Typical day. I may say that if I'm challenged by some conspiracy theorist. It doesn't mean there's doubt and it isn't (yet?) provable because I used the word believe. Believe means you accepted it, is all (whether you're riding on raw faith alone, stone-cold verified fact, or anything in between).

'I believe in you' again means I think you are capable of something, whether they calculated risk/probabilities or not, it is usually backed up with rational thought / evidence of some kind

Yeah, I agree. My point is just that belief can be something with contradictory evidence ignored, something with some evidence -- or totally proven. One's just not going to so readily say "I believe in you," or "I know you can do it," but more like "Of course you can do it. You already proven you can do it. Have you been drinking?" -- same as if they asked a question on whether the sky was blue or not when it clearly was.

otherwise if one were to say 'i believe in you' without backing it up with rational thought then it loses its meaning, like "I think that I believe in you... I think"

I agree. My point is it doesn't Mean you have a Lack of belief -- the lack of belief is on the other person -- whether the guy believes it to the point that it's True.

Much of it's tone, too. Like if I'm on a date that's hitting it off, and we're flirting like crazy + sex talk exchanging stories... and she's rubbing her legs together like a cricket all excited (as am I)... and after agreeing to go back to my place to get-it-on, I say "And I am going to drive you wild in bed, babe," -- she could have Two Different Implications based on *Tone*:

a) "OH, I believe in you," while licking her lips, smiling, excited... fully convinced as the sky is blue that she's going to hit the high note of extacy
b) "Yes, I believe in you...," with an Encouraging Tone, as if I just told her that I've had ED problems but with all this excitement, I believe I can satisfy her -- while she crosses her fingers
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 385
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 12:55:31 PM
WHAT THE ****!?!

did you read that out loud in your head with a screaming voice, filling in your own curse word, or did you picture one of these things

http://littlegreenbow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/no-swearing.jpg

above someones head?
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 386
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 1:17:24 PM
How do you know when you've painted someone into a corner or put them in a box or nailed them down on the pof forums?


did you read that out loud in your head with a screaming voice, filling in your own curse word, or did you picture one of these things


When they assume you're angry and yelling at them when typed word has nothing to with feelings voice sounding loud or soft and they can't give a valid response. Believe it or not I'm not mad angry or even frustrated I know your game and it's the same stupid game yule was playing. It's not fun it's stupid and yields nothing. Good job!
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 387
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 3:06:50 PM

Posted By: norwegianguy456
I'm not talking about faith, I'm talking about language

the discussion was about which came first Atheism or Theism not about you giving language lessons ..especially since none of the language examples you are making reference to existed or were acknowledged during the first instance of Theism ...


Posted By: norwegianguy456
Putting the "a" in front of a term means "non"

did Moses Jesus or Mohammad teach this to their followers? ...if not then it's irrelevant to the present conversation ..

you're bringing up soccer fans, football fans, abacterial surfaces in a discussion about Faith based Theism ...seriously? ..

you have a habit of deflecting

you were supposed to explain why Agnosticism and/or Anti-theist-ism couldn't have arose before Atheism ..


Posted By: norwegianguy456
Atheist is not a bad word,

Heathen Infidel Satan's Helper Lack Morals and Naughty all fall under the title of Atheist...


Posted By: norwegianguy456
It's the widely (but falsely) assumed/used street definition that does that. :

actually it's the Church's acceptance that an Atheist is a Heathen or in league with Satan that places a scarlet letter on one's forehead
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 388
view profile
History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 3:11:36 PM
I didn't think that religious types were of much use, until I started visiting the POF forums...and then I found that they are a good bit of fun.
 MadameBoisseau
Joined: 12/16/2016
Msg: 389
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 4:12:37 PM
Faith: belief in absence of evidence.

Belief: acceptance something is true.

What seperates faith from belief is: Belief can or cannot have evidence attached to it. Faith does not have evidence attached to it.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 390
view profile
History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 4:28:31 PM
I just saw a profile which reads "I have religion but am not religious". What the hell does that even mean?
 knowledgeNIgnorance
Joined: 8/23/2015
Msg: 391
view profile
History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 5:11:03 PM

Faith: belief in absence of evidence.

Belief: acceptance something is true.

What seperates faith from belief is: Belief can or cannot have evidence attached to it. Faith does not have evidence attached to it.



That is oh so true
although
Faith often attempts to attach evidence by twisting and distorting evidence to come up with alternative facts then denies or attempts to justify any twisting.
 MadameBoisseau
Joined: 12/16/2016
Msg: 392
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 7:47:38 PM
Religion has it's official historical lexical term, and then it's modern term lay people use. In the first term, religion simply means a reverent bond. In this way animals can experience "religion" - for instance chimpanzees have been found breaking into celebratory dance with their fellows when they come across especially beautiful natural spaces such as waterfalls. But that word has changed over the years to embody a bond with an orthodox belief system. This is why history is filled with academics who make a play on the both meanings of the words, such as when Einstein said: "I came to a deeply non-religious, religion". As in: he had awe for the natural world and was bonded to it, but he was not a follower of any orthodox teaching.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 393
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 10:48:06 PM

I just saw a profile which reads "I have religion but am not religious". What the hell does that even mean?


It sounds absurd but it isn't, there could be a better way to say the same thing without sounding contradictory, I could think of several meanings myself,

1.) I have a passion, but I am not part of X religion's community
2.) I have an addiction and don't consider it to be important

for example, if I said "studying/learning is like playing an instrument", what could I mean?
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 394
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 1/31/2017 10:53:26 PM

Faith: belief in absence of evidence.

Belief: acceptance something is true.

What seperates faith from belief is: Belief can or cannot have evidence attached to it. Faith does not have evidence attached to it.


Belief: acceptance something is true.

define true
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 395
view profile
History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/1/2017 3:55:08 AM

Faith: belief in absence of evidence.
Belief: acceptance something is true.
What seperates faith from belief is: Belief can or cannot have evidence attached to it. Faith does not have evidence attached to it.


Belief: acceptance something is true.
define true


Define define.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 396
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/1/2017 4:40:23 AM
^
define refers to meaning/output X of word Y,
function define(Y) = X

define is a pointer of X to Y
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 397
view profile
History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/1/2017 5:30:23 AM

define refers to meaning/output X of word Y,
function define(Y) = X

define is a pointer of X to Y


That's a description of the way it functions in the language, not a definition. It's what it does, not what it means.
Try again.
 MadameBoisseau
Joined: 12/16/2016
Msg: 398
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/1/2017 11:44:55 AM

Belief: acceptance something is true.

define true


Accurate - in accordance with reality

The issue is that many people don't define reality by objective evidence, rather by wants, wishes and subjective feelings. For instance, I heard recently that transwomen in America were angry at the women marchers because they had signs speaking of female anatomy. The transwomen said these signs upset them because being a woman, to them, wasn't a matter of anatomy but about "identity". To them, their feelings/wishes make their claim to womanhood "true". But in empirical reality: its not true. Either woman is an adult human female (someone born with ova) or they are not. People ignore the physical reality that interfere with their wishes.

The same is very much true of the God discussion:
There is no empirical evidence to support the existence of a God.
Furthermore: the fields of logic, theology, astrophysics, biology destroy various claims made about god.
So the people who say they believe god is true are literally saying they discount empirical reality and choose to believe the claim of a god is accurate inspite of the lack of evidence.

Fights happen because those who want to believe based on wishes/subjective feelings are reminded of this weakness when they meet people who point out empirical reality - so they attack these people as obstacles to their ability to comfortably believe their own mythology. The issue, succinctly, is EGO. Either one enshrines ego, or one enshrines truth, egotists often hate people who enshrine truth because their existence underscores the weakness of the egotist: their inability to be brave and face reality.
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 399
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/1/2017 3:32:48 PM

define true


get a dictionary dude. Is english a second language for you?
 MadameBoisseau
Joined: 12/16/2016
Msg: 400
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/1/2017 7:05:25 PM
His comment that belief in nothing is still a belief, is ludicrous.

Socrates clarified 3,000 years ago what is the basis of logic and binary code today: something either IS or is NOT.

ABSENCE of faith is not faith, just as a zero is not a one. Pretending they are the same is just the religious person's way of trying to play semantics so he can believe that others are as faithful as himself (IE: I am not ridiculous for having faith if I can pretend ALL people have faith.)

To put it simply: Saying atheism is a faith is like saying NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > There's no such thing as an "atheist."