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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > There's no such thing as an "atheist."      Home login  
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 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 401
There's no such thing as an atheist.Page 17 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
^
there is non-binary logic call fuzzy logic,
there is Dialetheism(true contradictions),
and there is quantum logic,

all of which have real applications


get a dictionary dude. Is english a second language for you?


true has many definitions in philosophy, which one do you mean/use?

for example, true does not imply existence
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 402
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History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/1/2017 11:45:19 PM

Belief can or cannot have evidence attached to it. Faith does not have evidence attached to it.

Faith can have evidence at least attached to it -- it's just not enough to validate it. I can have believe that Alabama would beat a D2 football team who's 5-5, and I have a whole lot of evidence to support that stance... but it's still "faith", even though the word may Imply riding on too little evidence, when, yeah, there's a lot - lol... but no, it's not a Fact. Game hasn't happened yet, and it is theoretically possible the .500 D2 team could upset Alabama. Even if it was Alabama vs a mid-major who's 7-5 -- less evidence that it WILL in fact happen, but it still takes little "faith" -- which implies hope.

Like, I hate Alabama. I wish a mid-major upsets them. Isn't it UN-fitting for me to say "I have faith Alabama's going to beat Ball State," if I Want and Hope Ball State wins? I can see if I'm on vacation in Vegas and I put a straight-up bet on Alabama to beat Ball State -- that I have faith they'll beat BSU, in that context. But I could still Want to Lose a bet of $100, because I'd pay $100 to see BSU upset Alabama in football. :)

define true

In this context (not like 'true north' and other meanings), I'd define it as: Objectively Validated beyond any logical doubt. Like, the existence of dark-matter isn't TRUE. It has evidence. Some believe it To be true (faith), but the reason they keep searching for validation of it is because there lacks validation, therefore, it's not actually True. Basically "true" means it's been objectively validated & verified as Correct.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 403
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/2/2017 12:36:51 AM
true means approximately true not absolute truth, true /false is better seen on a real number scale 0 to 1 rather than only the integers 0 and 1
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 404
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History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/2/2017 12:45:17 AM

true means approximately true not absolute truth

What's absolute truth mean, in reference to that statement?
 MadameBoisseau
Joined: 12/16/2016
Msg: 405
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/2/2017 1:11:54 AM
Fuzzy logic merely says there are variables between 0 - 1 such as .01, .02, .03, etc. They are STILL numeric values representing a portion of SOMETHING.

Dialetheism is in the vast majority of cases a result of our limit to language. The classical argument conundrum to sum it up is: "You are in the room, you are not in the room." How can both of those statements be true?
You are in the doorway...
The problem is a matter of semantics, general terms in regard to room location were used, rather than specific terms acknowledging the portal.
Or a real world example: We used to think that photons were particles, then we discovered they are also waves. Waves and particles were considered to have contradictory properties to each other so we had to throw in the word "duality" when describing the photon to avoid confusion.

These issues reveal the problem is language, the binary code of something either is or is not, still exists.

There either is a creator to this existence, or there is not.
It is an act of faith to believe there is one since there is no empirical evidence to show that a creator exists.
To further complicate the issue you must DEFINE creator: assign it properties (which is what orthodoxy does), and that's where Socrates will really hand people their behinds, because he could rip up every property assigned to creator in his time and his arguments still stand...

I know you want to break down everything to a matter of statistical probabilities - I see the semantics game you are playing here with everyone insisting there is "degrees" of truth. Regardless of how you want to define it: the fact remains the probability of a creator is so minuscule that it is the ego which drives the insistence to faith.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 406
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/2/2017 3:24:12 AM

the fact remains the probability of a creator is so minuscule that it is the ego which drives the insistence to faith.


creationism doesn't always have to include a creator for it to be a creation, for example, the universe created me but it isn't referred to as 'The creator' because the universe isn't seen as a being/person, but the universe still created me, which created my parents and so on,

the problem with Creationism is they do not know how to define the being behind creation or they always assume a creation requires a conscious being behind it for it to be a creation,

Evolutionary Creationism is a thing and it is the result of fuzzy logic,

An omnipotent being is capable of not being capable,

etc are examples of fuzzy/quantum logic and Dialetheism, besides its applications in AI, etc
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 407
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There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/2/2017 3:40:14 AM
...thinking about this whole creator business takes me into some meandering thought...how to define creator or what we're even really talking about...if some of the natural tendencies of the universe could be thought of as creative...and extra terrestrial life...etc...

And I end up somewhere which is a bit off topic but something I occasionally ponder. Because of the numbers involved, I'm going to do some rounding and be rough, because that's all that is necessary. As far as what's observable is concerned, stars and galaxies began about 10 billion years ago (actually earlier, but keeping it simple). If we indeed assume that the birth of life is quite natural, not all that improbable, and even ultimately inevitable, I'm thinking about how much time has passed since this could've first started happening here and there. Now...this requires us to get past the first generation stars, so that we have an accumulation of elements, but I think that a simple 10 billion years is still reasonable to work with.

So, my point is, I think of how long we think it took for life on Earth to appear. Not the age of our solar system or the age of the Earth, but life. Then I think of how much has already happened before we came along. 10 billion years. For 10 billion years, there were heavier elements, planets, etc. Forgetting that we figure that much of 'intelligent/self-aware' life eventually exterminates itself, how far might some of this life have gotten in all this time? Either that life, it's civilization, or it's 'computer' type of creation and it's possible evolution and growth. For all that we know, some kind of civilizations could have long since been established and present here and there, far-reaching and very old...and who knows how powerful. We could be a late-comer to a party that's been going on for a long, long time...evolving to places that we're not familiar with at all.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 408
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/2/2017 6:11:58 AM
a jackass cannot contemplate the stars, what am I not knowing of, and what leads me to believe that what I think is true- if i were to be so blind to everything, as if I were an ant in comparison to what could be greater than me? I cannot help but be what it is that which is referred to as I, so it doesn't make me any less or greater than the other, I am apart of the whole equation, here to make a difference and without me you wouldn't know the difference
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 409
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/2/2017 6:38:48 AM

true has many definitions in philosophy, which one do you mean/use?

for example, true does not imply existence


Great then pick one when having a discussion. I don't know what you're talking about if you're definition changes with the wind.



If there is a creator then what created the creator and if something created the creator then what created that? Also if a bee is collecting pollen for its hive and as a by product cross pollinates to help plants reproduce is the bee the creator of those plants?

To me by looking at life today every plant and animal on the planet is codependent on each other and intertwined to one another in some way. To me this is the story of life itself the way it is and probably the way it always was. There is probably no such thing as a creator of any kind in the universe but many codependent co-creators of the universe.

This is not to say the singularities such as big bang and abiogenesis didn't happen but to say the causes of them were probably numerous and even the singularities themselves were immensely compacted that when they expanded out they were still codependent on one another for survival.

Far as being late to the party this is troubling as we have such issues as massive supervoid in space that mathematically shouldn't exist. Yes we should be concerned at a reasonable level about this as we may very well not be alone in this universe.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 410
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There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/2/2017 4:55:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlggi-3IxII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dyPQiHRlDM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS5xzcS3HsI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AbCbDcegek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqkjIqC_H_k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=604Bg9ZtRiU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEFbV8r1PUQ
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 411
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/2/2017 11:42:19 PM

If there is a creator then what created the creator and if something created the creator then what created that?/


the first creator was its own creation, a spontaneous creation, 'the creator' is usually referred to as the 'creator of creators' or the beginning that caused everything, point is I could call the universe a creator, engineers, parents, myself, thoughts are creations, and get away with it, it almost has no meaning as if to say "everything is a creation"
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 412
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There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/3/2017 7:13:17 AM

The Dark Side of the Loon. Explaining the Temptations of Obscurantism
Maarten Boudry, Filip Buekens

Abstract

After contrasting obscurantism with bullshit, we explore some ways in which obscurantism is typically justified by investigating a notorious test-case: defences of Lacanian psychoanalysis. Obscurantism abuses the reader's natural sense of curiosity and interpretive charity with the promise of deep and profound insights about a designated subject matter that is often vague or elusive. When the attempt to understand what the speaker means requires excessive hermeneutic efforts, interpreters are reluctant to halt their quest for meaning. We diagnose this as a case of psychological loss aversion, in particular, the aversion to acknowledging that there was no hidden meaning after all, or that whatever meaning found was projected onto the text by the reader herself.

[...]
How is it possible to be deluded by obscurantist writings? “Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language”, wrote Ludwig Wittgenstein, a philosopher who was, as it happens, himself occasionally accused of obscurantism. The charge of obscurantism suggests a deliberate move on behalf of the speaker, who is accused of setting up a game of verbal smoke and mirrors to suggest depth and insight where none exists. The suspicion is, furthermore, that the obscurantist does not have anything meaningful to say and does not grasp the real intricacies of his subject matter, but nevertheless wants to keep up appearances, hoping that his reader will mistake it for profundity.

[...]
We distinguish two ways in which a theorist can make his doctrine impervious to criticism. On the one hand, he may bring forward external, theory-neutral arguments as a means for deflecting criticism. On the other hand, he may draw on theory-internal arguments and rationalizations for coping with criticism. Boudry and Braeckman (2011) have designated the former “immunizing strategies” and the latter “epistemic defence mechanisms”.

Immunizing strategies consist of general and theory-independent arguments, such as radical relativism about truth (“truth is always relative to a discourse, so your arguments miss the point since you're speaking a different type of discourse”), certain forms of social constructivism (“Every discourse creates its own version of the world, so your criticism does not apply to my paradigm”), or general informal fallacies (ad hominem arguments, straw man, false dilemma, etc.).
Epistemic defence mechanisms, by contrast, are derived from the theory or belief system under scrutiny, which makes them particularly interesting for explaining its seductive power and internal rationale.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/theo.12047/full
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 413
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/3/2017 11:31:53 AM

Posted By: kidreason29
the first creator was its own creation,

in other words..."Jesus is his own Father" ...you're once again preaching "Trinity Christianity 101" and invoking Faith that it's Truth

unless of course you can "rationally" explain how something can pop out of nothing without the nothing existing as a something
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 414
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/3/2017 2:05:56 PM
The whole abstract is obscure, if you remove language from philosophy, there is still philosophy,

"all is one" can be understood vaguely as a concept, but it still means little to nothing in-comparison to the person who actually had the experience.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 415
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/3/2017 2:06:51 PM

in other words..."Jesus is his own Father" ...you're once again preaching "Trinity Christianity 101" and invoking Faith that it's Truth

unless of course you can "rationally" explain how something can pop out of nothing without the nothing existing as a something


and ill play along to extract your ideology which you believe to be hiding, just kidding

an omni being is capable of not being capable(can be both omni and not omni), see my laws of nothing & everything
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 416
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/3/2017 3:03:29 PM

the first creator was its own creation, a spontaneous creation, 'the creator' is usually referred to as the 'creator of creators' or the beginning that caused everything, point is I could call the universe a creator, engineers, parents, myself, thoughts are creations, and get away with it, it almost has no meaning as if to say "everything is a creation"


You and yule are cut from the same cloth only seeing small portions of what is written to argue. You can't get away with calling those things creators if they didn't create. We have no evidence of a first creator so why should we believe he exists? I believe in a singularity that change nothing to everything and you believe in a magical warlock that waved his magic wand and changed nothing to everything. So? I believe in evidence and evidence shows we are all here and doesn't show a magical warlock exists.



The whole abstract is obscure, if you remove language from philosophy, there is still philosophy,

"all is one" can be understood vaguely as a concept, but it still means little to nothing in-comparison to the person who actually had the experience.


In evolution we may observe a rabbit that thinks it sees a predator and jumps when no predator is present. We also may observe a rabbit that only jumps when a predator is present but never when one isn't. Both rabbits may believe they had a real experience whereas only one really did. Both rabbits will carry on and reproduce as seeing something that isn't there will not cause them to die. Not seeing a predator that is there will cause something to die after all it's called lunch. So the point is our personal experiences really mean not a fkn thing. If you base your beliefs in a deity on someone else's or even your own personal experiences you're a fool. We are animals just like the rabbits and we sometimes see or imagine things that aren't there and have experiences that aren't real. Best to be skeptical of everything including yourself.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 417
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/3/2017 3:46:04 PM

Posted By: kidreason29
an omni being is capable of not being capable(can be both omni and not omni), see my laws of nothing & everything

I did read your laws along with your explanation of Noism ..in which you stated that "Omni-Beings didn't exist" and that you were just using them as reference to what a complete "Noists" was

so are you now claiming that Omni-Beings do exist ....because if so it turns Noism into a plagiarized version of Hinduism

so kidreason let's get it on record ....

do Omni Beings exist? ...yes or no

it's these Perry Mason moments that makes it all worthwhile
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 418
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/6/2017 1:34:33 PM

do Omni Beings exist? ...yes or no


lmao, yes or no,

I've said they do and don't exist, contemplate that for a minute before replying.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 419
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/6/2017 4:25:32 PM

Posted By: kidreason29
I've said they do and don't exist, contemplate that for a minute before replying.

if needed I can provide a link to the post where you clearly "did" state that "Omni-Beings are hypothetical"

so were you lying then .... or are you lying now?

contemplate that for a minute before replying

it's these Perry Mason moments that makes it all worthwhile
 MadameBoisseau
Joined: 12/16/2016
Msg: 420
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/6/2017 4:59:54 PM
Some people have such bloated egos they would sooner play semantics all day and cut hairs over terms just to maintain their feeling of righteousness.

Intellectuals are more concerned with actually discovering the truth than they are at feeling right, as the father of philosophy pointed out: it is the ego which is the biggest barrier to wisdom, for wisdom ultimately is know that we know nothing.

Break down God from omnipotent external creator to the mere evolutionary process, so long as the title of "creator" and "God" can still be used, is the game of the religious person who fancies himself a thinker. Any venn diagram would kill such a silly argument.

I have little tolerance for adult people that NEED these concepts, as rational people of humility outgrow their infantile desire for imaginary friends once they reach puberty...

You show me a religious person - and I'll show you a coward who is scared shitless to die - end of story.
 TheTemptressApril
Joined: 2/1/2017
Msg: 421
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/6/2017 7:52:30 PM
Funchesf:


what is misbehaving is how as a Temptress you use "yule liquor"


Dude when are you going to stop allowing "ApriLikesrosasblancas" to play you.....Dude wake up..she plays you like a broken violin.... anger is what allowed "ApriLikesrosasblancas" to play you...watching you being played by The Temptress was pretty entertaining.... "The Temptress" is this central omnipotent brain you spoked about .... because she sure were controlling you...




=========================



Yule, I will never "play" you. But Will "play" With You


======================


Funchesf:

always the Temptress ...is the name "Lilith" anywhere on your birth certificate?


 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 422
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/7/2017 4:09:47 AM

if needed I can provide a link to the post where you clearly "did" state that "Omni-Beings are hypothetical"

so were you lying then .... or are you lying now?


I say something does and doesn't exist, and you ask me do I think it exist. I've taken both sides simultaneously and you are asking what side do I choose?

does existence have to be either 0 or 1, true/false?
can something partially exist like 0.53?

do I have to state these as questions, or could I make them statements?
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 423
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/7/2017 4:20:29 AM

Some people have such bloated egos they would sooner play semantics all day and cut hairs over terms just to maintain their feeling of righteousness.

Intellectuals are more concerned with actually discovering the truth than they are at feeling right, as the father of philosophy pointed out: it is the ego which is the biggest barrier to wisdom, for wisdom ultimately is know that we know nothing.


philosophy isn't serious, yes people get bored, but having some quest 'to discover the Truth' is just another way to play the same game the other egos are playing, call them anti-/intellectuals if you want

someone who is with alignment of the heart and mind, someone who has a passion, wouldn't be bothered by another ego
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 424
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/7/2017 8:48:58 AM

do Omni Beings exist? ...yes or no


...yeahnah
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 425
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 2/7/2017 9:15:24 AM

TheTemptressApril
Yule, I will never "play" you. But Will "play" With You

what are you going to "play" ...fetch the stick? arf arf

I knew you were really "The Temptress" secretly disguised as "ApriLikesrosasblancas" mild mannered reporter for a great metropolitan Newspaper fighting a never-ending battle for Truth Justice and The Biblical Way

but anyway welcome back.... I was about to send a search party to find you or at the least tell Jesus on you


Posted By: kidreason29
I say something does and doesn't exist, and you ask me do I think it exist. I've taken both sides simultaneously and you are asking what side do I choose?

nope...I asked you to give me a name of an omni-being...even a fictional name...even a name in a comic book so that we could apply it to your Nosim theory ...and those posts lead to your admission that "Omni-Beings are hypothetical"

This is an example of The Age of Trump (Bamboozle-ism)
you post something then claim you didn't post it when the post is right there that you did post it

you got busted in a lie trying to deceive ...it's no way you can squirm out of this

do like they do on Perry Mason ....jump up and confess
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