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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > There's no such thing as an "atheist."      Home login  
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 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 126
There's no such thing as an atheist.Page 6 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)

Posted By: ihopethisforkingnameworks
My Dad confessed to being a liar on his death bed.

On his death bed, my Dad admitted he always believed in God.

as I stated in Msg 101 .. people post nutty stuff in the forum because they're either "mad at the World" "deceptive" or "delusional"

and now the truth comes out that you created this thread due to having issues with your Father and are "Mad at the World"

your Father could have took that secret to the grave but instead shared it with you ..can you explain why that's a bad thing?


Posted By: ihopethisforkingnameworks
NOBODY CAN EVER CONVINCE ME THAT "ATHEISTS" EXIST!

perhaps after you forgive your Father you'll convince yourself
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 9:55:46 AM
I'm not mad at my Dad at all.

He claimed to be an "atheist," and made a living preaching "atheism."

But he admitted on his deathbed that he always believed in God.

That proved to me that "atheists" never existed.




Calling me mad... does nothing to prove "atheists" exist.




You're just mad; because you were trying to use the Bible to prove the existence of "atheists," and now you finally see how futile that is.




Here's something you failed to copy and paste, because it doesn't fit your agenda...


Using the same burden of proof "atheists" require to prove the existence of God, prove the existence of "atheists."

For example, if you don't accept the Bible as being proof that God exists...

Don't expect me to accept The Bible as proof "atheists" exist.




And, here's the whole MSG you last post is quoting...



Oh yeah, my definition of an "atheist."


My Dad claimed to be an "atheist" for 34 years of my life.

He taught philosophy at USC; and he taught everybody "there is no God."

( - IF "ATHEISTS" EXISTED... THEY'D BE PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD. - )

My Dad confessed to being a liar on his death bed.

On his death bed, my Dad admitted he always believed in God.

On his death bed, my Dad said, "I just want to be a good Christian."

On his death bed, my Dad asked me, if God would heal him.

I said, probably not; because you'd deny him again, and sell books on how "you healed yourself."

On his death bed, my Dad said, "You're probably right."

Beside his death bed, my Dad kept a large print King James Bible, and one for his pocket.





And, NOBODY CAN EVER CONVINCE ME THAT "ATHEISTS" EXIST!



 ApriLikesrosasblancas
Joined: 11/28/2016
Msg: 128
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 10:14:58 AM

your Father could have took that secret to the grave but instead shared it with you ..can you explain why that's a bad thing?

He didn't mean it was a bad thing
What he meant is that people who call themselves atheists, they are not, they are denying that in the depths of their heart they trust in God....The proof is that almost all of them feel fear and repent before dying.
Result?
They were never REAL atheists.!!
They were just confused.
God forgives the confused and the Ignorant.






Just a note:
Christmas Mass is Saturday after 6:pm .
Do not forget that^ Funchesf and Drinkthesun.:)...I love you both.!!!
= A Christmas song for you two.
Merry Christmas.!!
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 10:26:19 AM
Thank you April.

You're right.

People who claim to be "atheists" are wrong, confused, ignorant, fools, or just plain liars.

I'm not here to judge anybody, on which one they are...

But "atheists" don't exist.
 Robyn143
Joined: 7/19/2016
Msg: 130
view profile
History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 10:43:48 AM
You're right.

People who claim to be "atheists" are wrong, confused, ignorant, fools, or just plain liars.

I'm not here to judge anybody, on which one they are...

But "atheists" don't exist. ok...you are not here to "judge" but people who do not agree with you are just plain liars and ignorant fools? got it...sorry but to ME you are wrong, confused, ignorant, foolish and a plain liar...but hey..that is just me and my opinion..so...shove it
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 131
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 10:50:22 AM

Posted By: ApriLikesrosasblancas
What he meant is that people who call themselves atheists, they are not, they are denying that in the depths of their heart they trust in God

his definition of Atheist in (Msg 125) is the fact that his Father lied about being an Atheist and therefore Atheist doesn't exist ...he has anger towards his Father

all he remember about his Father on the Deathbed is that he lied...not that he shared a Truth ...that's anger

he is visiting the sins of his Father upon the World ...which makes him Mad at the world

imagine if his Father lied about liking the color Red ...This Thread would be called "There's no such thing as the color Red"


Christmas Mass is Saturday after 6:pm .

cool ..so when they eat of the flesh and drink of the blood can you upload it to youtube?
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 11:12:30 AM
How many pages will you dodge the topic this time, hiding behind copy and pastes, and the wicked hateful imaginations of your own heart against your dad, which you're attempting to project on me?

How many pages are you gonna fill tryin to prove I'm mad, without trying to prove "atheists" exist?
 Butterchickenchuck
Joined: 9/18/2015
Msg: 133
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 11:21:49 AM
This is for you forking :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zILs4TaYFqs
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 11:25:20 AM
I don't have enough data on my plan to watch your video.

Please take the time to write out your point.
 Butterchickenchuck
Joined: 9/18/2015
Msg: 135
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 11:48:28 AM
^^^^

I'm sure you've seen the video before and it inspired you tremendously anyway


; )
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 136
view profile
History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 2:53:50 PM

his definition of Atheist in (Msg 125) is the fact that his Father lied about being an Atheist and therefore Atheist doesn't exist ...he has anger towards his Father

Yeah, it's kind of childish (no pun intended) to base how All people on Earth "really are" about a stance on something, based on one's own rocky relationship with a family member on their death bed saying they are really a different way than they have stood before. Talk about thinking the world revolves around your life -- sheesh.

By that rationale: If a father & son have a rocky relationship after living in Michigan for decades, but the father's from Ohio as an Ohio State fan.... If on his death bed, the father says he Is a U of M fan to his son -- that means All Ohio State fans having lived in Michigan for a long time are U of M fans. Ummmm, no (although I'm sure there are a few Michigan fans who would believe that - lol).

But "atheists" don't exist. ok...you are not here to "judge" but people who do not agree with you are just plain liars and ignorant fools? got it

Yeah, he's a confused person fueled by frustration and steps in contradiction. To believe every single person on earth who is a non-theist is actually a theist (or vice versa) -- is a blind emotional POV. There are examples of *individuals* like that, sure ... just like a lot of concepts that have emotional/social ties, one could find someone who says they hold X stance on something -- even to the point where that certain someone on the outside believes they themselves actually do -- but in the end, not really so much. Usually, it's about stances that try to be too optimistic, or to avoid social backlash if they believed the other way.
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 137
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 2:57:08 PM
The real definition to an atheist is someone who chooses to believe in things based on evidence. Your dad is one person not the whole world. We have a whole world of people and a majority believe in god in some form. Atheism is usually defined incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God." Some dictionaries even go so far as to define Atheism as "wickedness," "sinfulness," and other derogatory adjectives. Clearly, theistic influence taints dictionaries. People cannot trust these dictionaries to define atheism. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as "there is no God" betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read "there are no gods."

Why should atheists allow theists to define who atheists are? Do other minorities allow the majority to define their character, views, and opinions? No, they do not. So why does everyone expect atheists to lie down and accept the definition placed upon them by the world’s theists? Atheists will define themselves.

The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings. Some of the best debates we have ever had have been with fellow atheists. This is because atheists do not have a common belief system, sacred scripture or atheist Pope. This means atheists often disagree on many issues and ideas. Atheists come in a variety of shapes, colors, beliefs, convictions, and backgrounds. We are as unique as our fingerprints.

What atheism really centers around is it isn't our jobs to disprove your god but to look at your evidence or lack there of and decide if it merits our belief. All I can tell you is to this day no one has presented evidence of a god that led me to believe that they actually exist. That's not to say I hope there is no god because if I died and stood before him I feel he would appreciate the fact that I didn't believe all the lies everyone has been saying about him.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 138
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 3:28:38 PM
In 1955, von Neumann was diagnosed with what was either bone or pancreatic cancer. He invited a Roman Catholic priest, Father Anselm Strittmatter, O.S.B., to visit him for consultation. Von Neumann reportedly said in explanation that Pascal had a point, referring to Pascal's Wager. Father Strittmatter administered the last rites to him. Some of von Neumann's friends (such as Abraham Pais and Oskar Morgenstern) said they had always believed him to be "completely agnostic." Of this deathbed conversion, Morgenstern told Heims, "He was of course completely agnostic all his life, and then he suddenly turned Catholic—it doesn't agree with anything whatsoever in his attitude, outlook and thinking when he was healthy." Father Strittmatter recalled that von Neumann did not receive much peace or comfort from it, as he still remained terrified of death.

On his deathbed, Von Neumann entertained his brother by reciting, by heart and word-for-word, the first few lines of each page of Goethe's Faust. He died at age 53 on February 8, 1957, at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., under military security lest he reveal military secrets while heavily medicated. He was buried at Princeton Cemetery in Princeton, Mercer County, New Jersey.

The Wager uses the following logic (excerpts from Pensées, part III, §233):

God is, or God is not. Reason cannot decide between the two alternatives.
A Game is being played... where heads or tails will turn up.
You must wager (it is not optional).
Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing.
Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. (...) There is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite. And so our proposition is of infinite force, when there is the finite to stake in a game where there are equal risks of gain and of loss, and the infinite to gain.
But some cannot believe. They should then 'at least learn your inability to believe...' and 'Endeavour then to convince' themselves.

Pascal asks the reader to analyze humankind's position, where our actions can be enormously consequential but our understanding of those consequences is flawed. While we can discern a great deal through reason, we are ultimately forced to gamble. Pascal cites a number of distinct areas of uncertainty in human life:
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 139
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 4:34:39 PM
Not sure the reason for your post kidreason as pascal's wager is an old tired argument with no merit and has been argued and debunked to death. So why would you try and lay it out there? Why not chase a pot o gold as leprechauns either exist or they don't? How about zeus? Do you really think your god wants a bunch of people believing in him as an insurance policy of just in case he is real? What a pathetic and sad god that would be.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 140
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History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 4:38:42 PM

The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as "there is no God" betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read "there are no gods."

I agree about the influence part. However, what goes Above a select dictionary is a word like abacterial or atheist. They're dependent on the word after the 'a'. You can have alternative "street definitions" about them, but they're always superceded by Language Construct that's direct. The word abacterial = non-bacterial. That's all it means. The word atheist = non-theist. That's all that means. One saying a non-theist is an anti-theist, would be one saying non-bacterial = anti-bacterial.

"Got a deep cut on your elbow? Here, I'll put some non-bacterial cream on there (shaving cream). It's non-bacterial! Thus, it's the same as anti-bacterial cream!" Yeah, people get more reasonable on obvious language construct when there's no cultural/emotional ties to it. But, it's funny how if a wise parent or family member, or those with good standing keep repeating that atheist = anti-theist -- people will still believe it, even though it's as ridiculous as saying non-bacterial = anti-bacterial.

Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing.

His POV is quite flawed, though. Obviously not surprising no matter what one's potential intelligence can be. Pascal's Wager is classically shot down logistically. There being a God(s) does not = heaven or happiness of an after-life at all. The existence of a god(s) doesn't mean you're naughty in life, said god(s) are going to make things unhappy afterward in your life (although life itself tends to do an imperfect but okay job at that anyway). Nor does the existence of a god(s) mean that those who do not believe in said non-direct intervening god(s) are going to punish those not believing in It, in their culture, by way of denying said "eternal life of heaven" or a pit of hell. Quite a Naive POV that's been shot down repeatedly.

Believing for the sake of trying to convince yourself it gets in you into a glorious infinite life of happiness -- does have its cost. Integrity being one of them -- and oddly enough, that concept is something that separates us from all other living beings on Earth to a large extent... yet one's going to sacrifice that? How about a god(s) frowning upon that emotionally greedy concept?

Again, the existence of a god(s) doesn't at all = the description of one of Many ideas, just because one is pretty popular.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 141
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History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/23/2016 5:04:07 PM

I don't have enough data on my plan to watch your video.

Please take the time to write out your point.

You don't have enough data on your plan alright...
 PennyAnte
Joined: 4/17/2016
Msg: 142
view profile
History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/24/2016 6:59:45 AM
I believe in God.
If I wake up tomorrow and decide I don't want to believe in him any more.
What do I become?

An Atheist.?

Would I still exist? If I renounced God and everything I was taught about him and Christ and call if fallacy, imaginary, unbelievable.

What am I then?

An Atheist?
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 143
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/24/2016 9:16:18 PM

Not sure the reason for your post kidreason as pascal's wager is an old tired argument with no merit and has been argued and debunked to death. So why would you try and lay it out there? Why not chase a pot o gold as leprechauns either exist or they don't? How about zeus? Do you really think your god wants a bunch of people believing in him as an insurance policy of just in case he is real? What a pathetic and sad god that would be.


We are talking about John Von Neumann, do you know what he has accomplished? It is not the wager itself, but the fact Neumann found it to be true at his death says something itself.
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 144
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/24/2016 9:59:03 PM

We are talking about John Von Neumann, do you know what he has accomplished? It is not the wager itself, but the fact Neumann found it to be true at his death says something itself.



I looked who he is and was hopeful it would make some sort of a difference but it didn't. I don't care who he is because he is without a doubt wrong in this case. You didn't respond to any of the issues of pascal's wager like do you worship zeus just in case he is real too? How about allah? How about the spaghetti monster? If god were real and he wanted everyone to know of his existence and required worship or whatever he should have no problem letting everyone know directly would he? Then there would be no doubt in anyone's mind. Yet he hasn't. He has just "chosen" a very few select individuals with no way to verify their stories.

Sure is funny how every religion requires some sort of sacrifice {money} to be given to the people {as in human beings} in charge of his churches. All the money and power being given to those people all the time. Does that really make any sense for an all powerful deity to do that? Those people wouldn't have a motivation to sell something that is blatantly a lie would they? Pastors, reverends, and ect. driving by homeless starving people everyday in their new cars given to them by their congregation is what exactly?
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 145
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/25/2016 12:22:54 AM
What you fail to see is, despite his mathematical maturity and intelligence he found the wager 'to have a point' at the point of his death.

Nothing else is there to be said, that is why I only copy/pasted it from Wikipedia. I never said he was correct, I didn't say anything. I'm not defending him. It was a mathematical mind at the brink of death, and this is how he thought of it. Complete agnostic/atheist converted.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 146
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History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/25/2016 1:29:36 AM
1 - No, there is no point. The point is a non-point. A bull-stuff game.

2 - That some guy decided there is a point, is his prerogative and holds no weight in an argument. That some people decide to get religious or convert at the brink of death, is their prerogative and holds no weight in an argument.

3 - You're not defending him...you haven't said anything in addition...you're not saying he or it is correct...doesn't seem that way.

4 - You need to change your name, by the way. Unless you're just kidding with your reason.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 147
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History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/25/2016 4:13:48 AM

People who claim to be "atheists" are wrong, confused, ignorant, fools, or just plain liars.

I'm not here to judge anybody, on which one they are...

But "atheists" don't exist.


So anyone that doesn't play golf is just confused about actually loving golf? Therefore, non golfers don't exist?
There is absolutely no logic in any of your statements. It's literally gibberish.
No one has to prove atheists exist because the burden of proof is upon you because you opened with the claim that they don't exist. You have yet to prove it.
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 148
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/25/2016 8:52:56 AM

What you fail to see is, despite his mathematical maturity and intelligence he found the wager 'to have a point' at the point of his death.



I can't fail to see something I already saw. I don't agree with his point and he was wrong.


Nothing else is there to be said, that is why I only copy/pasted it from Wikipedia. I never said he was correct, I didn't say anything. I'm not defending him. It was a mathematical mind at the brink of death, and this is how he thought of it. Complete agnostic/atheist converted.



Plenty needs to be said. That's why religion has all the issues it has. As it is completely based off of taking peoples word for stuff. Yah know I think if I were on the other side of this argument I could make a convincing argument for a god of some sorts existence. However, past that all a person's work would still be ahead of them. That this god knew of our existence. Cared about who I put my pee pee in or if I had foreskin on my pee pee. Watched us when we slept and convicted us of thought crimes. So on and so on.

So I don't blame you for throwing out the saddest, most tired, completely refuted argument ever and giving up and then refusing to go any further with it. However you already sound like a complete fool so it couldn't hurt by answering my questions or admitting your just expelling word vomit.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 149
view profile
History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/25/2016 1:12:50 PM

No one has to prove atheists exist because the burden of proof is upon you because you opened with the claim that they don't exist. You have yet to prove it.

I think that what might be the game here is a kind of 'flip-it' of how you should prove god exists or else the default stance is that he doesn't if you don't prove the claim that he does...in order to prove a point, except that it doesn't make it's point and as always misses what's really happening:

If you want to believe that a god exists, you should think about whether there's any real evidence or indication for his existence. If you say that he does, you should prove that claim. Otherwise one shouldn't assume that a god exists for no particular real reason, as opposed to assuming that one doesn't exist.

We shouldn't assume that atheists exist. They should be assumed, by reasonable default, to not exist. Unless you can prove the opinion or claim that they exist.

So...this is not necessarily to question the existence of atheists, but it is to question the logic used. As in the burden of proof, for example. Though completely erroneous, it is to say that we can't have as our default position that atheists exist...that we have to prove that they do, and the position that they don't doesn't have to be proven or backed up.

Of course, it doesn't work that way in the first place. These are two very different things, and two very different situations. A given hypothetical god can literally have nothing at all to plausibly suggest it's existence, plain and simple. It's simply a case of saying that something exists willy nilly...there is an infinite number of things that we could do that for, and that's just not a sane approach for grasping reality. However, an atheist is just a person who doesn't believe that there's a god...no matter what the differences are between different definitions of atheism, which are completely irrelevant to this. And we already have plenty of evidence to plausibly suggest, and even conclusively verify, that there are atheists in existence. An atheist could even be wrong about his stance, but he is still simply a person who does not believe that there's a god (or believes that there isn't a god, which is a definition that I don't agree with and don't feel should even be called atheism...but this is completely irrelevant.) And if you've decided that out of the billions of people alive there is no one who isn't religious/doesn't believe in a god...if you think that this is the kind of thing which must be scientifically verified...if you think that all self-proclaimed atheists actually secretly believe in a god...and your default position is that no atheist exists and one must prove that any does, then you are retarded. There is something wrong with your brain, and you might even be a danger to society.

If I claim that there is one person in the world who puts animal feces in a pipe and smokes it, this is not the kind of thing that needs to be proven. It's not simply probable or improbable to a particular degree, but due to the nature of the claim it's even guaranteed that there is someone somewhere who puts animal feces into a pipe and smokes it.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 150
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History
There's no such thing as an atheist.
Posted: 12/25/2016 2:44:09 PM

I believe in God.
If I wake up tomorrow and decide I don't want to believe in him any more.
What do I become?

Someone who doesn't want to believe in a God. It doesn't mean you don't believe though. Just as if you wake up tomorrow and don't want to believe that a family member is gone (dead), doesn't mean you actually Do believe they're alive, ya know?

An Atheist.?

You would need something different than not wanting to believe in a god -- you'd have to not have a belief that a god in fact exists. Many people who are non-theistic Do want to believe that there's a god that will help you and/or give you an afterlife, but they're being honest with themselves that a "god" in some abstract way is a possibility at most, but not enough to believe it Is an actuality.

Would I still exist? If I renounced God and everything I was taught about him and Christ and call if fallacy, imaginary, unbelievable.

Whether you merely don't want to believe (which, is weird just having that) -- or you do but don't have the belief that there is one -- has nothing to do with whether you exist or not. If you end up some day not holding a belief that a god in fact exists -- that'd be renouncing the belief that said god in fact exists... not that If there was one, you'd be renouncing It. Of course, say there is a God behind the curtain, overseeing everyone on earth with so much care like his own reality TV show. Given that we have the gift of reason to an extent that separates from all other animals -- the ability to break out from cultural conditioning, even though it's still not an easy task -- it'd have some real emotional problems getting angry when an individual growing up comes to grip that they can't say the story of a god, or any supreme god they grew up with does in fact exist. The community/culture who passes along those stories get upset. How god "feels" about someone not being into the religion and worship -- is really how the religious institution feels. Difference between that and a god.

It is not the wager itself, but the fact Neumann found it to be true at his death says something itself.

It doesn't give any credence to Pascal's Wager, Neumann being on his death bed. I think it reflects how desperately people want to believe in an after-life -- where, yes, even smart people on their death beds will "give in" to the human storybooks that promise an after-life, so that it doesn't end there.

No one has to prove atheists exist because the burden of proof is upon you because you opened with the claim that they don't exist. You have yet to prove it.

I think a better way to say it is that nobody has to go out of their way to prove that there is Not a conspiracy-like theory that every non-theist is (shhhh!) secretly a theist. It's the person who believes in such a conspiracy-like theory that Every Person on Earth is at least secretly, a theist. Same for someone who'd believe some wild theory that Every Person on earth is really a non-theist.

If I have some wild belief that NOBODY liked Full House -- NOBODY -- I'd have the burden of proof. There's only proof beyond a reasonable doubt that at least some people liked it. There's no reason/motive that Nobody did, with it being a watched TV show and many people expressing their like for it. Same about the existence of theists, non-theists, baseball fans, non-baseball fans, etc.

Someone wants to say that NO non-baseball fans exist? Great. Ya got the burden of proof.
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