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 Doubleknotspy7
Joined: 8/10/2016
Msg: 51
Fake News is the point - its the new truthPage 3 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
Well 47 aside from the insult of 46 and leftists in general as "trash" (really no need for that) you are right in saying that Israel's should ignore the U.N.. Why should Israel accept this U.N. resolution when the original U.N. plan was ignored by their counterparts in the region. Israel has never known peace since the U.N. granted its right to exist after WWII.
Saying that Israel stole land is like saying Hitler was invited into Poland in 1939.

But that history seems to escape those here who want to praise the U.N. today but deplore it's original decision of 1948.
So on it goes regardless rules 1,2,3 or 4 and other verbal garbage.
There will be no peace in the territory formally known as Levant/Canaan/Judah/Israel/Palestine/Israel, until the two main parties recognize the others right to exist.
One side already has recognized the others right to exist and then they were attacked.
Wanna bet the the other won't be so altruistic any time soon.

Oh there actually is one other opportunity for peace but sadly it ends in genocidal war. Oddly both sides believe in this prophecy. More than one group, of one side, is already trying to make that horror a reality today.

Complicated you bet!
That is, how they got to this point in history is complicated but the solution is rather simple... acceptance!
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 52
view profile
History
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 8:07:14 AM
What Israel / Netanyahu is afraid of is what comes next.

France, whose efforts to host a peace summit were snubbed by Netanyahu, will convene with members of the Middle East Quartet — the U.S., UN, Russia and the EU — and Kerry on January 15. According to Israel’s Channel 10, the points agreed upon at the summit may be adopted at the UNSC in the last five days of Obama’s presidency.

And now Palestine can bring charges of war crimes against Israel in the International criminal court at the Hague.

The Hague will be allowed to visit Israel to assess whether the country could be put on trial for alleged war crimes during the 2014 Gaza War, the Israeli Foreign Ministry has confirmed.

No doubt in my mind that Israel's Netanyahu never had any intention of letting the Palestinian people have their own state, he was just going to keep pretending to be open to peace negotiations while continuing to push new settlements into the West Bank in an attempt to take all the land for Israel.

Not much Trump / USA can do now about the UN resolution, Trump can try and blackmail other countries into supporting Israel's position, but that will cost the USA jobs and money, so I doubt Trump want's to spend his political capital on a country like Israel that can't do much to help out the USA or Trump personally.

So that is the significance of the recent resolution, it starts off this sort of path to bringing Israel to court.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 53
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 8:29:21 AM
I've got nothing better to do, so here goes:

Please tell us of the country called Palestine?



According to Ottoman statistics studied by Justin McCarthy,[29] the population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs. In 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.[30] McCarthy estimates the non-Jewish population of Palestine at 452,789 in 1882, 737,389 in 1914, 725,507 in 1922, 880,746 in 1931 and 1,339,763 in 1946.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)


Please tell us that there were no Jews in the Ottoman territory called Palestine?

So you admit that there was a country called Palestine then?
No-one's claiming there were "no jews", that's a complete "straw man".
It's disingenuous bullshit.

At the start of the 20th century, they were still less than 10% of the population, (see above for figures) despite tens of thousands of newly arrived "jewish" immigrants, all done, completely against the wishes of the Arab population.
The "Balfour Declaration" was in 1917.
The British had also ('simultaneously') "promised" the Palestinian Arabs their own state, in return for their assistance in defeating the Ottomans. The Balfour Declaration was a complete betrayal of that promise.
"israel" was contrived with a colonial mindset.

"We" (the western powers) didn't think that what the Arabs wanted, was important. We felt we could control and dominate them, with superior military power, the same way we had done in India, Africa, Canada, and many other parts of the then "British Empire".
With hindsight, and more knowledge, this was a mistake.
It's time we acknowledged that.


Please tell us that the Arabs in the region did not reject The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine.
How can that be... isn't the U.N. incapable of error?

The (still then) 'minority' population of "jews", (most of whom had arrived against the wishes of the majority Arab population), were "offered" the bigger proportion of the land, while the Arabs, who had always lived there, and were still a majority, were "offered" the smaller part.
What nation would be prepared to agree to give the majority of their lands, to immigrants, who they hadn't wanted, in the first place?
Watch the Miko Peled talk, which I posted earlier.
He addresses all of these fictions, one at a time.

Tell us how the local Arabs in the region for centuries called themselves Palestinians.... they did not. At least not until the late 1800's and not really until after WWII.

Drivel.
"Zionism" also didn't exist, before the late 1800s. -But the land was called Palestine, in the Balfour Declaration, of 1917, and before that. What's your point?


Perhaps you could tell us about the language called Palestinian?

Whereas "hebrew" was spoken all over the world, was it?
WTF have languages got to do with it? Canadians speak English, and French. So what?
You do talk some shit.

The facts are until Zionism in the middle 19th century Arab populations in the territory were not united and did not consider themselves Palestinians per say.

So, you admit that "until Zionism", the "jews" weren't "united" themselves, either?
You're a hoot.
Oh, and it's "per se", -unless you like looking foolish.
Do you even read your own posts...?

Please tell us how what nationality Yasser Arafat was? Here's a hint - he was born in Cairo.

Please Doublechins, tell us the nationalities the 3 million "jews", who immigrated into the country, formerly known as Palestine, and where they were born?
-Here's a hint: It wasn't in Palestine.
Actually, it tells you exactly where they came from, on this page:

The large-scale immigration of Jews to Palestine began in 1882.[3] Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, more than 3 million Jews have moved to Israel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah

This is a religious fantasy, executed at the expense of the innocent population which was already living there.
-And then you blame them, for "not accepting it"..?

You've seen how people behave, and vote, when they think "there's too many immigrants", in any of your own countries, Trump, 'Brexit', the rise of right-wing nationalists. Etc. -And that's when there's just a few thousand, - a tiny minority of the populations.
Now...
Imagine if you'd been forced from your own homes, at the point of a gun, by those same immigrants.

Imagine if your country was renamed, by those immigrants, and so many of them arrived, that you were now a minority, and THEY made the "rules", and controlled the law, and the military, and the water supplies, and they told you where you could live, and where you couldn't.
Palestine never had an army.

Anybody, who researches this subject, objectively, (IMO) can't help but come to the conclusion that "we", (the west") have inflicted a terrible injustice on the people of Palestine, but also, more generally, all over the Middle East, with our colonialism and hegemony.

I don't think we can even begin moving towards a solution, until the denial stops, and people start addressing the facts.
-And I'm not talking about "the facts" which various different religions 'teach', as "the facts".

My sympathies are with the Palestinians, despite them being "muslims", and not because of that.
IMO., Their "beliefs" are every bit as 'barking mad' as "judaism'' or "christianity".

We just shouldn't still be killing each other, based on the 'beliefs' from the Dark Ages.
Religious beliefs are not "harmless".
"Israel" is just an example of that.
Merry mythmas.
 Doubleknotspy7
Joined: 8/10/2016
Msg: 54
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 9:26:19 AM
No, but I do admit as I have stated previously that there was a territory of the Ottoman Empire generally known as Palestine. Although, I cannot find an Ottoman map which lists Palestine. In fact the area we know today as Israel is labelled under several districts. I believe it was the British (1922- 1947) who placed the label of Palestine on the region.

This territory (not a country) was of mixed ethnic populations but predominately Arab. However long before the Ottomans, when the Romans invaded, it was predominately a Jewish population. In fact for the first 4 centuries AD there was a Jewish majority. For the next 15 centuries there was an Arab majority due in part to Roman and Muslim conquest.
So how far back do you want to go in history because both sides can make historical claims.
It would be better served today to deal in the realities of the present.

The U.N. messed this up once (1947) and they will again.

Yes the vast majority of Jews came from Europe but they were in fact Jewish. They were scattered over history as a result of conquest. Many of the Palestinians(Arabs) today also were scattered (to Syria/Jordon) after the first Arab/Israeli war. Does that mean they have no claim to a homeland? A similar tragedy is occurring today in Syria. Do the refugees of Syria today not have a right to return to their homeland.
So when you say they were driven out of their homes are you talking about the Jews of the first 4 centuries?
What you are saying is that the Jews have no rights today based on the ethnic breakdown of the 5th through 19th centuries?
To the victor goes the spoils eh.
But what about the ethnic breakdown of the 1-4th century? Or how about the ethnic breakdown of today, btw its over 51% Jewish. Still want to hold to the "to the victor goes the spoils" theory?

You need to read more about the Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire and the other many conquests of this territory today known as the country of Israel.
Again it all comes down to two sides coming together in the 21st century and accepting each others right to exist.
Like I said it's complicated.
But you keep up with your childishness, tis very enlightening. btw... why do you discount Muslims? You do realize that not all Palestinians (todays definition) are Muslim... don't you?
Happy New Year
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 55
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 9:33:54 AM

Saying that Israel stole land is like saying

Is like saying... "The settlements are illegal and must be removed"...

Gee... I wonder where I have read that before... Oh yes... it was the ruling years ago regarding the "stolen land" of the... And, more recently... when the SC confirmed and formalized that ruling... and said the same thing... about the "stolen land"...


But... It seems Double Zero still wants to have his high school debate club "mock trial"...

To bad it's all over... except for the sanctions, embargoes and boycotts... Oh, and the inevitable ICJ war crimes cases that will arise...

It really is too bad that the US alone is insufficient to "carry the load" of Israel's imports/exports... With the US accounting for less than a quarter of exports and less than 1/8th of imports, Israel NEEDS the very countries who have voted against it (virtually ALL of Israel's trade partners, 3/4's of their export markets and 88% of their imports)...

It will also be interesting to see how they deal with... being restricted to traveling only to the US alone... with Israeli officials being subject to arrest for war crimes everywhere else... after the ICJ cases start...
 Doubleknotspy7
Joined: 8/10/2016
Msg: 56
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 9:55:50 AM
Really so please point out when I said they were not illegal?
Of course they are but they are the result of the Arab's failure to accept U.N. Partition plan of 1947 and the ensuing wars that transpired. Israel has a right to protect itself until the Arabs unify and agree to a Two State solution which guarantees to livelihood of both states.

Oh and you keep holding out for those war crimes trials good luck with that one.
Kinda like waiting for a Hillary presidency isn't it?
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 57
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 10:10:46 AM
Spy may have a point. Israel and its supporters have so much influence and power that a crimes trial of any kind is doubtful.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 58
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 10:38:08 AM

Yes the vast majority of Jews came from Europe but they were in fact Jewish.

So what?
"Jewish" is a religion.
Like I said, anyone can become "jewish", they still do (Eg Trump's daughter?) And it's been the same forever, since the religion was first invented.
Similarly, anyone could leave, and they have done, across the centuries.

You seem to be saying that membership of, or belief in a religion, somehow "entitles" that person to claim back land, in the countries where that religion originated.
That's ridiculous.
That would be like me becoming a "buddhist", (unlikely, I can assure you ) and then making my way to India, and evicting someone else, say a "muslim", from their home, on the basis that a couple of thousand years ago, it was originally a "buddhist" territory.

These are the beliefs of the past.
This is primitive tribalism, of the sort expounded in the "bibble", where it tells you to kill believers in "other gods".
WTF?
It's 2016.

Roughly 700,000 Palestinian people were forced from their own lands, in 1948. Fact.
Thousands massacred. Fact.
-And all because the "jewish" religious people felt that they "deserved" their own country.

Most of the 3 million odd "jews" had never even had ancestors who originated there.
They had been later 'converts', from northern Europe, and elsewhere.
It's a religion, not a "race".

Hitler was wrong. I think we can all agree on that?
(Except maybe Marilyn, who thinks he was some sort of financial genius! )
The only people who seem to be still claiming that the "jews" are a "race", are, ironically, the "jews" themselves.

It's just a belief, a belief which science has disproved.
The "zionists" have spent literally billions, trying to prove that"jewish" is a genetic "fact",
and so far, the best they can come up with, are the same genes which they share with the Palestinians!

They never had any "rights of return", based on history from 2,700 years ago, or even your more recent 1,500 years ago.
It's pure fiction.
This shit's history, we don't need to 'replay' it.

The "jews" need to apologise, give back the land they stole, allow Palestinians the "right of return", and make reparations, (like Germany did, to them.).
They've got plenty of money.
I read somewhere that the US alone, contributes something like $50-100 million per day, in aid, to "israel".
(Maybe someone would like to verify that, I can't be bothered)

The whole thing's crazy.
I think the world is starting to wake up to that.
The history makes for very uncomfortable reading.
There's really no excuse.

Religions eh?
Where was their "god", while Hitler was gassing them?
Crazy.
 Doubleknotspy7
Joined: 8/10/2016
Msg: 59
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 11:47:10 AM
You argue against yourself and against the U.N.
But you are right sorta in saying that any one can convert to Judaism. Subsequently also people can convert from Judaism as did many early Jews in the area who later converted to Islam under threat of the sword. Remember when Mohamed attacked the Jewish populations ( Banu Qurayza) in Medina. War is hell!

So Jew is not a race... So is Arab a race? Is Muslim a race.
So by your standard the New Palestinians have no right to return to the West Bank because they are not a race.
I am not really sure why you insist upon on talking about race. What does it have todo with a right to a homeland.
Everyone is a part of a race.
By the way both Arabs and Jews are considered part of the white race.

Those 700,000 thousand Palestinian Arab people were displaced as a result of the war started by the neighbouring Arab states and the attacks which emanated from their villages. The Israeli's when attack fought back... go figure.
Don't forget also that before the war and during the war many Palestinian Jewish villages were attacked.
War is hell! Crazy eh.

The Jews had a right to return to the middle east and to form the country of Israel because your beloved U.N. decreed it so. When they were attacked they pushed their attackers out and captured the land that no other country claimed i.e. the West Bank. Remember the Arabs (today known as Palestinians) refused to agree to the U.N. terms of partition of the formerly British mandate known as Palestine. Therefore this land was never settled as no country was formed.
Should the land be given back and could it form a Palestinian homeland... possibly but first the Palestinians have to accept Israel. When do you think Hamas will do that?

You are right it is crazy but ponder this... Can a Palestinian walk down the streets of Haifa safely... now consider what would happen to a Jew who walked into the Gaza Strip?

btw- the US just pledged 3.8 Billion per year to Israel for the next 10 years.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 60
view profile
History
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 12:46:56 PM

Most of the 3 million odd "jews" had never even had ancestors who originated there.

Yep ... you can see them partying on TV specials ... celebrating their move to Israel which is fully paid for by our tax dollars.

The money we send to Israel ... millions we give them for "refugee resettlement". Each family member gets at least $15,000. (and more these days), their moving expenses are fully paid for, their flights, and they are moved into fully furnished newly-built settlements ... on stolen land. It's theirs to protect and kill for.

Burning or bulldozing neighboring Palestinian homes with the occupants still inside is rather a common activity. It happens so often that it's becoming more and more difficult for the Zionists to squash the media reports ... cell phones and all.

The "jews" need to apologise, give back the land they stole, allow Palestinians the "right of return", and make reparations, (like Germany did, to them.).
They've got plenty of money.
I read somewhere that the US alone, contributes something like $50-100 million per day, in aid, to "israel".
(Maybe someone would like to verify that, I can't be bothered)

It's difficult to verify details related to all the different sources the money (aid) comes from.

And as we can see in Message 59 ... the Zionists are quite pleased with themselves that they are able to swindle the US out of so much money as a reward for all the killings ...
btw- the US just pledged 3.8 Billion per year to Israel for the next 10 years.

They use the money well ...
... bulldozer parts and maintenance, not to mention with all the newly stolen land comes the need for new bulldozers.

Then there are the drivers ... need to be trained up and it costs money to pay into pension funds for them as well as medical benefits.

They too have families with expectations, Aaron and Abraham need a college education as does Ariel.

They have so many needs in order to do away with the Palestinians and we just keep shelling out.


Where was their "god", while Hitler was gassing them?

Didn't have time for the jews ... too busy being the "X-tian" god?


The world is watching and taking note ...
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 61
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 12:50:56 PM

I am not really sure why you insist upon on talking about race. What does it have todo with a right to a homeland.

I'm not really sure if you're being deliberately obtuse, or you really just don't know very much about this.
The whole basis of "israel's" claimed "right to a homeland", revolves around this belief.


Aliyah is an important Jewish cultural concept and a fundamental component of Zionism. It is enshrined in Israel's Law of Return, which accords any Jew (deemed as such by halakha and/or Israeli secular law) and eligible non-Jews (a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew), the legal right to assisted immigration and settlement in Israel, as well as Israeli citizenship.
//
//
Genetic testing

In 2013, the office of the Prime Minister of Israel announced that some people "wishing to immigrate to Israel could be subjected to DNA testing to prove their Jewishness". A Foreign Ministry spokesman said genetic testing program is based on the recommendations of Nativ, an Israeli government organization that has helped Jews from Russia and rest of the former Soviet Union with Aliyah since the 1950s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah



The Jews had a right to return to the middle east and to form the country of Israel because your beloved U.N. decreed it so.

70 years ago, most people still believed in woo. Biblical mythology.
Britain, a still (then) deeply "christian" country, controlled Palestine, the Balfour Declaration was a stated intent to create the "new Israel", based on the above beliefs, and on the bible.

This was a mistake.
Why is that so hard to admit? We made lots of other mistakes back then too.
70 years ago, we still had apartheid colonies, cigarettes were sold as "good for you", and we put single mothers into lunatic asylums, and gave their babies to religious abusers and rapists, we had lead water-pipes, and used mercury fillings in our teeth.
People still believed those myths were true. Many still do.
Things change. Usually, hopefully, for the better.

"Israel" is a return to 'neolithic' beliefs.
It's unsustainable, because it's based purely on BS.
Why should anyone "accept" that?

They invaded a country, based on their beliefs.
Others don't share their beliefs.

Do we all have the "right" to demand to live where we thought our ancestors came from?
Can the descendants of Vikings, or Normans, or Romans, also turn up and demand I vacate my home, based on history, and then kill me, if I object?
It's just nonsense.
No-one has that "right".

If they'd gone about it, in a different way, there might have been a chance.
But they stole the land, by force, and murdered many innocent people.
They can't now complain about people not liking them, or refusing to acknowledge their "right to exist", because there never was such a "right".

It's a religious belief, that doesn't give you any "rights" over other people's lives or lands.

There's no such thing as the "holy land", just "the holey land", from all the shell-holes, and all the graves.
It's truly tragic.

If religion is such a wonderful thing, why is it that the people who believe in it, seem to do so much killing

Religions:
Just say no.
(But do it politely)
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 62
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 1:44:12 PM

In 2013, the office of the Prime Minister of Israel announced that some people "wishing to immigrate to Israel could be subjected to DNA testing to prove their Jewishness".


I didn't know that a DNA test proved a person's religious beliefs. If a person switches religions, does their DNA change?



If religion is such a wonderful thing, why is it that the people who believe in it, seem to do so much killing?


Does the bible or a different religion's holy book say that it's OK to commit mass murder and slaughter people if someone doesn't follow the same holy book and worship the same version of a higher power? If not, where do they get the idea that God, or whoever they believe is watching over everybody, will approve of those actions?

 Doubleknotspy7
Joined: 8/10/2016
Msg: 63
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 1:53:06 PM
Well I am glad you admit that the Jewish people deserved a homeland as did the United nations in 1947
However I see no mention of genetic testing in these eligibility rules.
The fact that it has been speculated is not relevant as it is not law nor is it required if at some point they decide to do so based on genetic markers then I guess as a sovereign nation it is their right?
I wonder what the requirements of immigrating to the Gaza Strip are?


Eligibility for Aliyah

Outside of Israel, The Jewish Agency for Israel acts on behalf of the Government of Israel to process applications and facilitate immigration for:

People eligible according to the Law of Return
Jews, (as defined by the Law), their children, grandchildren, and spouses
Israeli citizens born abroad (Ezrachim Olim)
A person born outside of Israel to at least one Israeli parent who is themselves not an 'Israeli citizen born abroad'
Returning minors (Katinim Chozrim)
A person who was either born or lived in Israel, and left Israel with both parents before the age of 14, and wishes to return at the age of at least 17, after having spent at least 4 years outside of Israel

*Additional conditions apply to all of the above categories. Please speak with your local shaliach or the Global Center for clarification.
In order to demonstrate eligibility, the Government has requested that the following documents accompany your application:
Documents showing Jewish connection (These may include: a letter from a rabbi or Beth Din, conversion documents, and marital and/or burial records.)
Documents showing your current civil status (In addition to your birth certificate, you may also be asked to present your marriage / divorce and or death certificate of a spouse.) Note: documents issued after 1988 will need an apostille or equivalent certification.
According to your status as one of the above, you will need to present documents showing that you have lived outside of Israel for relevant periods.
Passports (If you are an Ezrach Oleh or Katin Chozer – see above – you will need to present your Israeli passport.)
List of visits to Israel, and their duration
Medical declaration
http://www.jewishagency.org/first-steps/program/5131

The Law of Return
With the inception of the State of Israel, two thousand years of wandering were officially over. Since then, Jews have been entitled to simply show up and request to be Israeli citizens, assuming they posed no imminent danger to public health, state security, or the Jewish people as a whole. Essentially, all Jews everywhere are Israeli citizens by right.

In 1955, the law was amended slightly to specify that dangerous criminals could also be denied that right.

In 1970, Israel took another historic step by granting automatic citizenship not only to Jews, but also to their non-Jewish children, grandchildren, and spouses, and to the non-Jewish spouses of their children and grandchildren. This addition not only ensured that families would not be broken apart, but also promised a safe haven in Israel for non-Jews subject to persecution because of their Jewish roots.


The Law of Return, 5710-1950

Every Jew has the right to come to this country as an Oleh.

Aliyah shall be by Oleh's visa.
An Oleh's visa shall be granted to every Jew who has expressed his desire to settle in Israel, unless the Minister of Immigration is satisfied that the applicant --
is engaged in an activity directed against the Jewish people; or
is likely to endanger public health or the security of the State.

A Jew who has come to Israel and subsequent to his arrival has expressed his desire to settle in Israel may, while still in Israel, receive an Oleh's certificate.
The restrictions specified in section 2 (b) shall apply also to the grant of an Oleh's certificate; but a person shall not be regarded as endangering public health on account of an illness contracted after his arrival in Israel.
Every Jew who has immigrated into this country before the coming into force of this Law, and every Jew who was born in this country, whether before or after the coming into force of this Law, shall be deemed to be a person who has come to this country as an Oleh under this Law.
The Minister of Immigration is charged with the implementation of this Law and may make regulations as to any matter relating to such implementation and also as to the grant of Oleh's visas and Oleh's certificates to minors up to the age of 18 years.


The Law of Return, 5714-1955: 1st Amendment

In section 2 (b) of the Law of Return, 5710-1950 :
The full stop at the end of paragraph (2) shall be replaced by a semicolon, and the word "or" shall be inserted thereafter;
The following paragraph shall be inserted after paragraph (2):
"(3) is a person with a criminal past, likely to endanger public welfare."
In sections 2 and 5 of the Law, the words "the Minister of Immigration" shall be replaced by the words "the Minister of the Interior".


The Law of Return, 5730-1970: 2nd Amendment

1. In the Law of Return, 5710-1950, the following sections shall be inserted after section 4:
"Rights of members of family:
4A.
a. The rights of a Jew under this Law and the rights of an Oleh under the Nationality Law, 5710 - 1950, as well as the rights of an Oleh under any other enactment, are also vested in a child and grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew, except for a person who has been a Jew and has voluntarily changed his religion.
b. It shall be immaterial whether or not a Jew by whose right a right under subsection (a) is claimed is still alive and whether or not he has immigrated to Israel.
c. The restrictions and conditions prescribed in respect of a Jew or an Oleh by or under this Law or by the enactments referred to in subsection (a) shall also apply to a person who claims a right under subsection (a).
Definition:
4B. For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion."
In section 5 of the Law of Return, 5710 - 1950, the following shall be added at the end: "Regulations for the purposes of sections 4A and 4B require the approval of the Constitution, Legislation and Judicial Committee of the Knesset."
In the Population Registry Law, 5725-1965, the following section shall be inserted after section 3:
3A.
A person shall not be registered as a Jew by ethnic affiliation or religion if a notification under this Law or another entry in the Registry or a public document indicates that he is not a Jew, so long as the said notification, entry or document has not been converted to the satisfaction of the Chief Registration Officer or so long as declaratory judgment of a competent court or tribunal has not otherwise determined.
For the purposes of this Law and of any registration or document thereunder, "Jew" has the same meaning as in section 4B of the Law of Return, 5710-1950.
This section shall not derogate from a registration effected before its coming into force.
http://www.jewishagency.org/first-steps/program/5131



Hate to break this to you but the 1917 Balfour Declaration did not create the State of Israel. It merely opened up the process. The United Nations Partition Plan of 1947 later to become Resolution 181 created both the Arab and Jewish states. Once again the Jews accepted the plan and the Arabs rejected the plan. So yes lots of mistakes were made back then. Just as they are today.

Btw the United Kingdom abstained from the vote.


What country did "they" invade? And who is they?
Please provide proof of an invasion and a country for that matter?

So if "they" have no right to return to their ancestral homeland then why now do the displaced New Palestinians have a right? Or the displaced Syrians for that matter?
No one is allowed to return once kicked out!
You have solved the problem... To the victors go the spoils... bring on the next war.
I am not so cold hearted as you are and I disagree with your conclusion. I believe in the two state solution.
So a better solution would be the Arabs accepting the State of Israel and then negotiate a sovereign homeland as the U.N. attempted (however flawed in 1947).

I am not counting on it since the Muslim Arabs can't get along with each other never mind with Israel.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 64
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 3:15:07 PM

Well I am glad you admit that the Jewish people deserved a homeland as did the United nations in 1947

Just wondering, Doublechins, why are you such a complete w@nker
Just asking...


What country did "they" invade? And who is they?
Please provide proof of an invasion and a country for that matter?

I'm not playing your dumb word games.
I don't need to "prove" anything.
Everyone knows what happened.
That's why ALL the nations in the UN voted against "israel", because they know too.

You can fool some of the people..... etc etc.

"israel" is a country founded on a fairy tale.
It's doomed, because of that.
Eventually, the USA will stop paying for it to exist.
I doubt it will end well.

Bad luck.
Have a nice day.
 ebolakitty
Joined: 3/19/2016
Msg: 65
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 4:29:37 PM
Really, there is no fake news. News is simply falsehood with corporate sponsorship. Common sense is the full collection of delusions accepted by the woefully ignorant.

Then the knowing history nonsense...

One book tells you that George Washington was a trans woman fighting for equal pay. Another tells you that the Elders of Zion created the American government so that George Washington could get our guns. Still another tells us that God commanded George Washington to build an ark and bring baby dinosaurs but not let them have abortions.

The only reliable information can come only through rigorous experimentation and objective observation. Now that the Scientific Method is under attack as a rape instruction, how long will even that last?
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 66
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 4:32:29 PM
Are we talking" ancestral homelands" or are some of these people still living?
"""""Approximately 750,000 Palestinians were displaced and became refugees as a result of the 1948 war which led to the founding of Israel. """"

Does a third or fourth generation German convert have an ancestral homeland in Israel?
If I converted to Judaism, do I have an ancestral home in Israel?

In South Africa, the people already in Africa were removed from their land by people not from there who gave land to the descendents of people from the Netherlands and the people displaced were made to live in a specified area and . . . well, that is all.
 John252817
Joined: 8/24/2016
Msg: 67
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 5:10:57 PM
spy, you can go on and on and on as far as trying to teach jo an, cotter and mung and they will never "get it". I know there was another poster who called you out also but haven't heard from them so maybe they get it now. YIKES!!
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 68
view profile
History
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 7:19:40 PM
I personally could care less how long folks in the mid east have been bickering. I've heard the reasons for the arguments both pro and con and I say this...

I am an American.... I have learned we, as americans are contributing millions, perhaps billions of dollars in aid both economically and militarily since Israel was formed. Personally, I'd rather see this money used for infrastructure in my country [USA]... We have bridges, roads, levees and electrical grids that could use these funds.

It's my money too since I pay taxes like any proper American and also have a say where this money goes. As does everyone else. If charity is indeed needed and people are really suffering then yes I feel we should help.

But.... Keeping up with the Joneses in a escalating arms race isn't progress. Nor, is this money well spent. Use it to help instead of harm.Build something useful. Do something to help everyone. Will a new administration hear such messages over the Twittering ,chirping, tweets of their own minds?

Who knows?? The future is coming like a punch in the face so keep your guard up.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 69
view profile
History
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 7:31:39 PM

In South Africa, the people already in Africa were removed from their land by people not from there who gave land to the descendents of people from the Netherlands and the people displaced were made to live in a specified area and . . . well, that is all.


Like the Native Americans in the Americas
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 70
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/27/2016 7:49:48 PM
Give me a break spy, these people are trash. I feel no compunction to treat them with respect. Somebody like Jovan or cotter deserving an ounce of respect...really? ...Then you have mungo jo, another radical leftist who actually thinks he is smarter than everybody else here. Yes..he believes that. you can tell from his attitude.

These are the type of people you would never want to associate with. No matter how many actual facts you give them, they will lie, defame, manipulate. These are not normal people you are dealing with here. Leftist, radical trash. The worst kind of human being.

Netanyahu has a 180 IQ. A graduate of MIT and a high school outside philadelphia. The guy knows what he's doing and there is a reason israel has made him their leader. He was too smart for Obama to handle, which is why Obama is acting like a petulent child. He knows with Trump coming in, all of his hard work is for naught. So sad. The leftists are beside themselves.

Israel always comes out on top. That's not going to change any time soon. These antisemites can do nothing to change things.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 71
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/28/2016 3:06:27 AM
You sound like gto "Dayna," but thanks for another example of the same behavior of which Israel is accused.
(Not to mention an example of why limits on immigration is important. Thanks.! Like Crimea (and California?), you allow or bring enough people there who want to be part of another country or take over, change the language and the culture, what can you do?

See the population change and control effects and the joke that is the current state of the two-state solution here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/15/1485318/-Tom-Friedman-admits-Israel-Palestine-two-state-solution-is-dead-boycott-will-grow

Meanwhile. . .. . .
The opposition in Israel ( you know, Jewish people! (dog whistle)) is revving up.

""""Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s domestic critics are coming out in force following passage of a UN Security Council resolution condemning Israeli settlements, and as the government fears further international moves to impose peace terms Israel opposes.

After initially condemning what most Israeli politicians considered a hostile attack at the UN, the opposition on Monday blamed Netanyahu for harming the country’s standing and criticized his response to Resolution 2334.

“The prime minister was bragging about our foreign relations, and now what’s underway is a total collapse of Israeli foreign policy,” Yitzhak Herzog, co-chair of Israel’s largest opposition party, said at the opening of the Zionist Union faction meeting Monday. He called on Yair Lapid, head of the opposition party Yesh Atid, and Finance Minister Moshe Kahlon, whose Kulanu party is part of the government, to join him and “stop Netanyahu before it’s too late.”

Israel summoned representatives from Security Council members Sunday and ordered the Foreign Ministry to reduce work ties with countries that voted for Resolution 2334, which demands that Israel cease construction in all areas it captured in the 1967 Middle East war and describes the West Bank and East Jerusalem as occupied Palestinian territory. A day earlier, Netanyahu recalled Israel’s ambassadors from New Zealand and Senegal, two of the resolution’s four co-sponsors, ended aid programs to Senegal and pledged to cut off 30 million shekels ($7.9 million) in Israeli funding to UN institutions.

‘Not Policy’

“This is not policy, this is hysteria,” Yesh Atid’s Lapid said at a party meeting Monday. “We have enough haters who want to isolate us, there’s no reason to isolate ourselves.”"""""""

You can read more at Bloomberg

 LLove2LaughToo
Joined: 6/6/2016
Msg: 72
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/28/2016 4:14:43 AM

(Not to mention an example of why limits on immigration is important. Thanks.! Like Crimea (and California?), you allow or bring enough people there who want to be part of another country or take over, change the language and the culture, what can you do?


Haven't you heard? Trump is already backtracking his signature promise on immigration.


Jared Taylor, the creator of so-called “race-realist” magazine American Renaissance, denounced Trump for rolling back one of his core campaign pledges on immigration.

“At first he promised to send back every illegal immigrant,” Taylor said to The Guardian. “Now he is waffling on that.”
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 73
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/28/2016 4:25:19 AM
Whatever he does or doesn't do (psst. He hasn't taken office yet) it doesn't change the reality of the effects of unfettered immigration and the taking of land.

See west bank, creimea, California,etc.
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 74
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/28/2016 7:05:48 AM
Keep googling dee, and you will find Israel has a very contentious political system....jews traditionally question and criticize. It's in their DNA. There are many jews who criticize the occupation. The difference between those opinions and that of the leftist trash is the trash, being the scum it is, attacks israel's birth, legitimacy, right to exist and right to defend itself, and as obvious on this board, lies as pathologically as Trump. It is an antisemitic movement. Of course they deny what they are and live in a world of self deception...much like you seem to do. :-)
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 75
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 12/28/2016 8:20:32 AM

Of course they deny what they are and live in a world of self deception...

Says the woman who is currently posting as a man! (again)
How many profiles have you had, just this year?

You begin, seeming quite sane, but then someone says the "trigger word": "israel", and BAM!! you go all fruit-loopy!

You just have to face it, not everyone buys into your fairy tale.
And there's more and more information leaking out.
And more and more prominent "jewish" people, speaking out, against the occupation and the illegal settlements.
Like Noam Chomsky.

He is highly critical of the policies of Israel towards the Palestinians and its Arab neighbors. His book The Fateful Triangle is considered one of the premier texts on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict among those who oppose Israel's policies in regard to the Palestinians as well as American support for the state of Israel. He has also accused Israel of "guiding state terrorism" for selling weapons to apartheid South Africa and Latin American countries that he characterizes as U.S. puppet states, e.g. Guatemala in the 1980s, as well as U.S.-backed paramilitaries (or, according to Chomsky, terrorists) such as the Nicaraguan Contras. (What Uncle Sam Really Wants, Chapter 2.4) Chomsky characterizes Israel as a "mercenary state", "an Israeli Sparta", and a militarized dependency within a U.S. system of hegemony.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Noam_Chomsky#Chomsky_and_the_Middle_East
A clever man. I wonder what his IQ is...
or Miko Peled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miko_Peled
He's "seen the light".

I see Netanyahooo has delayed the vote, on passing the latest batch of another 500 illegal settler homes.
Nice to see the UN vote already having an effect.
I think the UN should send troops there, to keep an eye on all the religiotards trying to steal yet more land.

Both "Racism" and religion, all rolled into one big, gloopy mess.
These nuts will be the most likely cause of WWIII.

Roll-on the complete demise of all religions, I say, and an end to all these insane beliefs.
It can't happen soon enough.
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