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 AUTHOR
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 176
Fake News is the point - its the new truthPage 8 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)

Not this thread jovan, I believe it was the premonition thread you continually baited me with the israel issues.

Nope. Not that thread either.

I'm surprised you don't remember, because it was your own thread, and in it, you accused me of the exact same thing; "bringing up Israel".
~ Whereas, back in reality, back here, on planet Earth,
YOU had actually first "brought it up", in the Opening Post!
It was YOUr lovely thread, about "New Order in the Middle East".

It's how I knew it was YOU, Marilyn.
You're obsessed with "israel".
How come YOU don't live there?
Don't you fancy a nice little 'condo', somewhere near The Golan Heights?
You could sit in the sunshine, sipping a c0cktail, and wearing your bullet-proof vest.
It sounds idyllic.
-Do you mind if I call you Madilyn, from now on?
Only I like the name, - and..... also... it shortens, rather conveniently, into "Mad",
which I also think is quite apposite.

YOU can't even decide your own gender. -Not that there's anything wrong with that, "pearly sleighs", ( I learned that from Doublechins).
It's just that, having had so many different profiles, yourself, with so many different genders, and places, ages, heights, etc etc
and then there was your your little "manic period", where you sometimes had 5 or 6 different profiles, in the same day
it just makes you look rather silly, when you then say things like

You are the biggest fake here.


I think you need help.
My New Year's Resolution is not to mock,


quite so much.
Mad.

D'oh!
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 177
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/4/2017 8:41:52 AM
I see you ignored my question Jovan, instead spending your time accusing me of being all sorts of people on here. Lets get back to the facts:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MF1948.html
The war of 1948: The Arabs made clear they would go to war to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state. The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee said the Arabs would “fight for every inch of their country.”1 Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews. 2 Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee’s spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench “the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood. . . .”3

Map of Arab Invasion, 1948

Husseini’s prediction began to come true almost immediately after the UN adopted the partition resolution on November 29, 1947. The Arabs declared a protest strike and instigated riots that claimed the lives of 62 Jews and 32 Arabs. Violence continued to escalate through the end of the year.4

The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said so many Arabs had infiltrated they lacked the forces to run them back. 5

In the first phase of the war, lasting from November 29, 1947, until April 1, 1948, the Palestinian Arabs took the offensive, with help from volunteers from neighboring countries. The Jews suffered severe casualties and passage along most of their major roadways was disrupted.

On April 26, 1948, Transjordan’s King Abdullah said:

All our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and honor to save Palestine. 6

On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered. 7 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel’s declaration of independence.

The UN blamed the Arabs for the violence. The UN Palestine Commission, which was never permitted by the Arabs or British to go to Palestine to implement the resolution, reported to the Security Council on February 16, 1948, that “powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.” 8

The Arabs were blunt in taking responsibility for the war. Jamal Husseini told the Security Council on April 16, 1948:

The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight. 9

The British commander of Jordan’s Arab Legion, John Bagot Glubb admitted:

Early in January, the first detachments of the Arab Liberation Army began to infiltrate into Palestine from Syria. Some came through Jordan and even through Amman . . . ​They were in reality to strike the first blow in the ruin of the Arabs of Palestine. 10

Despite the disadvantages in numbers, organization and weapons, the Jews began to take the initiative in the weeks from April 1 until the declaration of independence on May 14. The Haganah captured several major towns including Tiberias and Haifa, and temporarily opened the road to Jerusalem.

The partition resolution was never suspended or rescinded. Thus, Israel, the Jewish State in Palestine, was born on May 14, as the British finally left the country. Five Arab armies (Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq) immediately invaded Israel. Their intentions were declared by Abd Al-Rahman Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League: “It will be a war of annihilation. It will be a momentous massacre in history that will be talked about like the massacres of the Mongols or the Crusades.” 11
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 178
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/4/2017 8:46:56 AM
the poor arabs... outgunned in 1967 . . . NOT:

Per Wiki:

Armies and weapons
Armies
The Israeli army had a total strength, including reservists, of 264,000, though this number could not be sustained, as the reservists were vital to civilian life.[46]

Against Jordan's forces on the West Bank, Israel deployed about 40,000 troops and 200 tanks (eight brigades).[47] Israeli Central Command forces consisted of five brigades. The first two were permanently stationed near Jerusalem and were called the Jerusalem Brigade and the mechanized Harel Brigade. Mordechai Gur's 55th Paratroopers Brigade was summoned from the Sinai front. The 10th Armored Brigade was stationed north of the West Bank. The Israeli Northern Command provided a division (three brigades) led by Major-General Elad Peled, which was stationed in the Jezreel Valley to the north of the West Bank.

On the eve of the war, Egypt massed approximately 100,000 of its 160,000 troops in the Sinai, including all of its seven divisions (four infantry, two armoured and one mechanized), four independent infantry brigades and four independent armoured brigades. No fewer than a third of them were veterans of Egypt's continuing intervention into the North Yemen Civil War and another third were reservists. These forces had 950 tanks, 1,100 APCs, and more than 1,000 artillery pieces.[48]

Syria's army had a total strength of 75,000 and was deployed along the Syrian border.[49]

The Jordanian Armed Forces included 11 brigades, totalling 55,000 troops[50] and equipped with some 300 modern Western tanks, 250 of which were U.S. M48 Pattons. Nine brigades (45,000 troops, 270 tanks, 200 artillery pieces) were deployed in the West Bank, including the elite armoured 40th, and two in the Jordan Valley. They possessed sizable numbers of M113 APCs, a new battalion of mechanized infantry, and a paratrooper battalion trained in the new U.S.-built school. They also had 12 battalions of artillery and six batteries of 81 mm and 120 mm mortars.[51] The Jordanian Army, then known as the Arab Legion, was a long-term-service, professional army, relatively well-equipped and well-trained. Furthermore, Israeli post-war briefings said that the Jordanian staff acted professionally as well, but was always left "half a step" behind by the Israeli moves. The small Royal Jordanian Air Force consisted of only 24 British-made Hawker Hunter fighters, six transports, and two helicopters. According to the Israelis, the Hawker Hunter was essentially on par with the French-built Dassault Mirage III – the IAF's best plane.[52]

100 Iraqi tanks and an infantry division were readied near the Jordanian border. Two squadrons of fighter-aircraft, Hawker Hunters and MiG 21s, were rebased adjacent to the Jordanian border.[51]

The Arab air forces were aided by volunteer pilots from the Pakistan Air Force acting in an independent capacity, and by some aircraft from Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia to make up for the massive losses suffered on the first day of the war. PAF pilots shot down several Israeli planes.[3]

Weapons
With the exception of Jordan, the Arabs relied principally on Soviet weaponry. Jordan's army was equipped with American weaponry, and its air force was composed of British aircraft.

Egypt had by far the largest and the most modern of all the Arab air forces, consisting of about 420 combat aircraft,[53] all of them Soviet-built and with a heavy quota of top-of-the-line MiG-21s. Of particular concern to the Israelis were the 30 Tu-16 "Badger" medium bombers, capable of inflicting heavy damage on Israeli military and civilian centers.[54]

Israeli weapons were mainly of Western origin. Its air force was composed principally of French aircraft, while its armoured units were mostly of British and American design and manufacture. Some infantry weapons, including the ubiquitous Uzi, were of Israeli origin.
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 179
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/4/2017 8:52:58 AM
Of course, according to Jovan . . . . being the antisemitic, leftist trash that he is, only the Israelis had tanks...the 950 tanks Egypt alone had, not including the other Arab nations, were a figment of Wiki authors imagination.....LOL
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 180
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/4/2017 9:16:45 AM
Goodness, Tommy, you went from war in 48 to 1967....why did you skip Israel's invasion of Egypt in 1956 with support of England and France? Oh that's right, you don't know enough about Israeli history. Well, since you're quoting Wiki, you won't mind if I use them to educate you on Israeli history

"The Suez Crisis, also named the Tripartite Aggression (in the Arab world) and the Kadesh Operation or Sinai War (in Israel),[16] was an invasion of Egypt in late 1956 by Israel, followed by the United Kingdom and France. The aims were to regain Western control of the Suez Canal and to remove Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser from power"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis

gosh, so funny you wouldn't bring that up, as anyone who knows a little bit about Israeli history would. You mentioned in your post about Egypt using Soviet weaponry, you really should read the article I provided for your education, just so you can learn the background history of why Egypt got Soviet weapons, since now they get so much aid from the US. We're just trying to help you get smarter, Tommy--see? we care.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians are now thinking about a one state solution, which requires them to get equal voting and representation...oh boy, are the Zionists and Orthodox who already had a problem with left wing Israelis upset they have to go into the army and they don't, gonna love that one!

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/world/middleeast/israel-palestinians-two-state-solution.html

And Bibi now has his own problems to worry about

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/03/world/middleeast/israel-netanyahu-graft-investigation.html
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 181
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/4/2017 9:30:36 AM
^^^^ GT, I suggest you stick with something you know, you know like figuring out how much interest you are getting on your bonds so that you can sit on your rear-end all day, collect money, and avoid being a contributing member of society. :-)
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 182
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/4/2017 1:49:06 PM

Of course, according to Jovan . . . . being the antisemitic, leftist trash that he is, only the Israelis had tanks...the 950 tanks Egypt alone had, not including the other Arab nations, were a figment of Wiki authors imagination....

Mad,
I actually said that only the "israelis" had tanks, when they bulldozed all those villages, and killed all those unarmed civilians.

But you're completely missing the point.
The Arabs had always objected.
-Of course they said they'd go to war.
There had been an Arab 'revolt' from 1936-9, which the British had "crushed ruthlessly".

The Arabs had been objecting since before the Balfour declaration of1917!
Ever since the idea was first thought of. Herzl and before.
Ever since thousands of "jewish" "zionists" had first begun arriving, at the end of 1800s!

Why would anyone, in any country, agree to a plan that millions of immigrants were gonna arrive, and force them from their country, rename it, and take it over!?

This was done during the last gasp of "British Empire".
"WE", the British, along with the Americans, the French, etc, had decided it was going to happen.
And "WE", the British, and all the "zionists" and "christian " supporters" and other believers" in wibble, along with the Americans, the French, etc made it happen.
"WE" forced this on the Palestinians.

The creation of "New israel" was just social engineering, by force.
-No different to what the nazis had attempted.
Ethnic cleansing was the stated goal.

They wanted no Palestinians left there. And they're still trying to make that happen.
That's why they've stolen land.
That's why the government supports the demented "settlers".
That's why the government gives permission for yet more illegal settlements.
They want ALL the land.
It's in black and white, their stated intent, from the beginning, and still now, in all the "behind the scenes" documents.
They are in fact, a country full of liars.

But their feigned victimhood has been exposed.

More and more people, like me, who hated the nazis, (unlike YOU, who have expressed admiration for your idol, Mr Charlie-Chaplin-Impersonator, Adolph, what-a-cvnt, Hitler. ) and had sympathy for the "jews", and thought "israel" sounded like a cool, egalitarian, pseudo-socialist place, - But have now realised, what a bunch of lying, cheating crooks, they really are.

More power to people like Miko Peled, I say.
We get the full "inside story" from him, and his father.
He tells how they have a policy of deliberate provocation, and the truth about '67.
He should know, he was one of "israel's" top generals, from the start, and he was there in '67, in the "war cabinet" meetings.

You should watch his talks, they're really awfully good.

"Israel" has been a master of fake news.
But you're not.
-But don't beat yourself up about it, it may be because we're just not dumb enough eh?

 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 183
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/4/2017 2:46:46 PM
Aren't actual facts a batch Jovan...especially where they contradict leftist trash lies in their attempts to portray the arabs as innocent victims? Instead of murderers with much larger and better equipped armies?

The reason they couldn't beat a few ragtag European holocaust survivors...because they were fighting for nothing and the jews for eveything.

Everything we need to know about the 67 war is in the numbers cited above and Nasser's threats of imminent destruction of israel. Pelod cannot change actual facts on the ground.
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 184
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/5/2017 4:20:37 PM
Here is some really good reading about Bobby Kennedy in Palestine 60 years ago . . . gives a refreshing perspective other than that of the leftist trash on this board so many of the Naive buy into:
`
http://robertkennedyandisrael.blogspot.com/?m=1
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 185
view profile
History
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/6/2017 6:10:52 PM
LMFAO ...

The newly elected illegitimate (russian) president thinks he can just build the wall between the US and Mexico on our dime and send the bill to the Mexico!!!

Problem is, even though there is a law that basically says he can build "a" wall, there is no money to build "the" wall he and the idiot trumpets want to build.

Wanna bet he will simply build a little sliver of a wall and go do some photo ops in front of it and the dumbed-down people who elected him will probably buy it. They'll think they're looking at the whole wall even though it might only be a 3-foot little section.

Seriously, if that wasn't "fake news" every time he said it, what is?
 scareymush
Joined: 8/9/2011
Msg: 186
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/6/2017 8:02:33 PM
Two words........."confirmation bias".
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 187
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/7/2017 4:36:48 AM
And here we have a moving, changing wall of leftist arguments against Trump (no matter what he does.) This is just one example.

They say:

-- He won't build a wall

- Well, if he builds the wall, he won't get Mexico to pay for it
(As if his supporters really care WHO pays for it, as long as some sort of effort to stop the open border gets done.)

- Well, he won't build a REAL wall, it will be a virtual wall.

- Well, he doesn't REALLY want to build a wall and had no intention of building one.

- Well, the wall is a terrible idea.

-Well, there is already a wall.

-Well, he won't be able to get the land.

-Well, he will just build a small wall

-Well, it will just be fencing.

-Well, even if he builds a wall, illegals can get in anyway
( why bother locking your door? People can cut a hole in the roof and get in through a window, tight?)

LOL. Soon it will be "Well, he didn't use stone, he used fiber glass" or "He's been in office 25 days and the wall is not built yet" or some such minutia


The use of "Fake News" has become as meaningless as the use of "Deplorables" and "Homophobia."
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 188
view profile
History
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/7/2017 9:51:44 AM
Here Dee you are spot on missus. We have been fed fake news for years by the elitist globalist tame media. Now we kick back we are istismophobes.

Remember no one who votes against the corrupt elitist system can think for themselves. Its the right wing media wot done it.

Christ i was in a panic over yuletide as i couldnt find a right wing media outlet telling me what to do. Us poor infidels, deplorables and istismophobes.

Well 2016 worked out very well as the entitled elites got their collective arse booted. Brendan O'Neill who is a free speech marxist came up with one of the best quotes i have seen in a long time.

Some self righteous actor div called michael sheen has made an announcement. Yes as mr O'neill said 'we have now reached

PEAK LUVVIE'........


"The worst thing about 2016 — an otherwise bracing year of political upset and oligarchical tears — has been the mainstreaming of the insult ‘fascist’. Anyone who sticks it to the status quo, whether by rejecting the EU or plumbing for Trump over Clinton, risks being smeared with the F-word.

Even the normally measured New York Times flirted with the idea that loads of Americans and Europeans might be fascists, or at least facilitators of fascism. Trump’s victory speaks to a possible ‘revival of fascism’, it said, echoing the fears of an army of observers and tweeters who see in Brexit and Trump the stirrings of a kind of Nazism.

The terrifying casualness with which the F-word is now flung about could be glimpsed in the Michael Sheen controversy.

Achieving ‘peak luvvie’, Sheen said, in an interview with the Times, that he was cutting back on acting to fight the new ‘demagogic, fascist’ politics.

Where is this fascism? Wales, apparently. A Times editor summed it up: ‘The great actor Michael Sheen is quitting acting and going back to Wales to battle the rise of populism and fascism’.

So are there Blackshirts in Cardiff? Swarms of Hitler Youth in Merthyr Tydfil? No. These people are talking about Brexit voters. They’re talking about those largely working-class Welsh communities that said ‘Screw you’ to the EU.

In the eyes of the snootier sections of society, these people are fascists, or midwives of fascism.

Sheen has since clarified his comments. He says he isn’t ditching acting and doesn’t think Welsh Brexiteers are fascists. That’s nice of him. Yet his diagnosis that the west is in the grip of a ‘demagogic, fascist’ politics is one shared by much of the smart set. And they seem not to realise whose footsteps they’re following in.

For ‘fascist’ has long been the favoured slur of the authoritarian, especially Stalinist authoritarians. Some of the nastiest political people in recent history used the accusation of ‘fascism’ to stigmatise and silence their critics, and now so-called liberals play the same low game."

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/just-disagree-someone-doesnt-make-fascist/
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 189
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/7/2017 11:28:39 AM

See my own "measure" of "PEAK LUVVIE'' would be when a reality TV "star" [sic] "luvvie', and his porno-model wife, somehow manage to convince ordinary, poor, working-class people, that voting for a billionaire republican, was somehow "giving the establishment a kicking".

Or that voting the way Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, the two tory cabinet ministers, who led the 'brexit' campaign, wanted you to do, was somehow sticking it to the "entitled elites", or the "status quo". [RIP].

The reason there are so many 'liberals' and those on the left, opposing it, is because both the tory party, in the uk., and the republicans in the US., are right-wing supporters of the status quo.

-As well as both parties using "nationalism", and 'xenophobia' to distract the public from what "the right hand is really doing":
Reducing labour rights, (and human rights), reducing labour power, by undermining unions and collective bargaining as "subversive",
and increasing income inequality, by generally reducing wages, or "offshoring" all manufacturing to wherever it's cheapest. (Often involving child labour, and/or 'sweatshops'.)

Both the republicans, whom you seem to support, (as in Trump) and the right wing tories, (as in Johnson, Gove, Farage, 'Brexit' et al) whom you also seem to support, are the parties behind the decline of the working classes.
They are the parties of "the economy trumps all".

They are the parties who reduced taxes for the billionaires, who achieved their wealth by "globalisation", and avoid paying any taxes, by the same means.
They are the parties who fight trade unions, and regard living wages as "uncompetitive", and health and safety at work, as "red tape".

It's truly tragic, that through 'fake news', and the manipulation of the media, (which they own anyway,) they have somehow managed to have convinced you, and millions like you, that their victories are something for the working people to celebrate.

Far from the "entitled elites getting their collective arses booted", they got all their xmases at once.
They got exactly what they campaigned for: The Power, to screw working people, even more.

Have a pleasant evening.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 190
view profile
History
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/8/2017 3:14:49 AM
Oor jo
"It's truly tragic, that through 'fake news', and the manipulation of the media, (which they own anyway,) they have somehow managed to have convinced you, and millions like you, that their victories are something for the working people to celebrate.

Far from the "entitled elites getting their collective arses booted", they got all their xmases at once.
They got exactly what they campaigned for: The Power, to screw working people, even more."

And who convinced YOU oor jo that remain was the only vote in town? Why it was call me dave cameon, the republican and democrat leaderships, the unelected eu mandarins, multi multi millionaires, the tuc (for reasons only they know), the pro eu press et al.

They convinced YOU the 'international socialist'. They got YOU voting FOR global capitalism.

You should look at what you voted for before looking at what i voted for. I'm still in my trade union. Ucatt. But hey the right wing tory press convinced 17 million odds to vote brexit eh?

As for fake news are you really trying to say the remain campaign never used fake news? Project fear like the liblabcon used during the scottish indie referendum? Deary me.

Dry your eyes mate.
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 191
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/8/2017 7:23:34 AM
I have to vote with vlad on this one. Jovan is very easily manipulated yet doesn't see it. He actually has himself convinced he is a "critical thinker", what with his rejection of god and race. He proves himself to be anything but...over and over and over. :-)
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 192
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/8/2017 8:33:02 AM

And who convinced YOU oor jo that remain was the only vote in town? Why it was call me dave cameon, the republican and democrat leaderships, the unelected eu mandarins, multi multi millionaires, the tuc (for reasons only they know), the pro eu press et al.

Don't be so naive Vlad. Cameron wanted us OUT.
-It was his choice to have the referendum, and he was never 'pro-Europe', along with more than 50% of his party.

They believe that unions, even political ones, like the EU., are a bad thing, because they put into place, laws, which favour the majority of workers. the 'social contract', working-time directives, minimum wages, and human rights are all obstacles to capitalism.
That's why Cameron blocked the legislation for the 'city' and financial sectors.

I voted IN, because I believe that co-operation between countries is infinitely preferable, to conflicts between them.
(The reason for it's original existence)

I voted in, because I oppose ALL the hateful forms of "nationalism", and the kind of "patriotic", "dog-whistle", "racist" politics of the right, who use such 'tribalism' to generate a hatred of "the other", to distract from their own robbery.

The cause of working people's poverty isn't other poor people, whether they're immigrants, or not.

The cause of working people's poverty is the excessive wealth of the very few at the top of society, who fund the tory party, or the republicans, in the US.
All those people wanted 'Brexit', because without the EU regulations, they will be able to get richer, faster.
-And the richer they get, the poorer you'll be.

The "fake news" is that nationalism will improve the lot of working people.
It won't.
The use of it, by both the tories, and the republicans, is classic "divide and conquer" strategy.
"Don't look at us, look at "them""
And you do.

Have a nice Sunday.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 193
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/8/2017 8:36:50 AM
Its true, we've been fed fake news for decades. Propaganda and Madison Avenue even existed before us on the forum, the real Facists copied it in 1939 Germany. Liberals spoke out against it recently at things like Occupy Wall Street and blocking a pipeline in a Dakota Indian reservations, and surprisingly Faux News covered it all with...more fake news. How ironic. The Republicans used to call Saddam "the next Hitler" and warned of WMDs that didn't exist. Wasn't that more fake news? Right up there with believing a wealthy man who defaults on payments to the working men and women who help him make his money, is going to help other working men and women, and "Drain the swamp" by hiring billionaires to be in his cabinet. How does hiring billionaires help the common man? What do they share in common?

How many wars have started with nationalism? Patriotic views that our country has God on its side? Thank goodness Chump has surrounded himself with generals--obviously Chump plans for peace. What else could he be looking for?
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 194
view profile
History
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/8/2017 9:11:50 AM
Oor jo
"They believe that unions, even political ones, like the EU., are a bad thing, because they put into place, laws, which favour the majority of workers. the 'social contract', working-time directives, minimum wages, and human rights are all obstacles to capitalism.
That's why Cameron blocked the legislation for the 'city' and financial sectors."

What bollocks. Ive showed you numerous times that the uk parliament implemented working rules far more advanced than the eu. What working time directive? I've showed you numerous times that the eu allowed the uk to opt out of working time directives. The minimum wage allowed bosses to cut wages. So far so not very working class friendly.

Paid holidays has been a legal right in UK law since 1938.

Maternity pay and paternity leave are enshrined in British law, at a level much higher than the EU minimum.

Equal pay for women did not emerge from the EU, but from the fight started by the Ford women in the 1970s. Again done by British law

Are you for real saying the eu blocked capitalist interests? Fvck sake jo what world do you inhabit? The same eu that wanted to embrace ttip. Can you tell me what laws the eu put into place that benefits the majority of workers?

This article by jim sillars the socialist snp voice shredding the bollocks that the eu is 'worker friendly'. You should try reading it. The article destroys completely your argument.........


"The EU and lies are entwined like Siamese twins.
Jim Sillars

The Commission is an unelected elite, and will remain without reform. The reason is that the EU lacks the essential homogeneity to form a genuine demos. The member states do not share the same historical, political and cultural development. There is not the intimate knowledge of each other necessary to bind them together in one genuine unit.

What do the people in Italy or Poland, for example, know about the people and problems in Shetland, Liverpool, or Glasgow? What do we know of the people of Slovakia and Finland ?

That lack of homogeneity is why pan-EU political parties do not exist, and so cannot seek a pan-EU mandate in the European Parliament, from which a government based on a popular vote can be drawn. That fact will always leave the unelected Commission in power.

Now to other lies, and plain absurdity. TUC and SNP MSPs claim Brexit will see a roll back of workers’ rights on holiday pay, maternity and paternity entitlements.

They seem ignorant of the facts.

Paid holidays has been a legal right in UK law since 1938.

Maternity pay and paternity leave are enshrined in British law, at a level much higher than the EU minimum.

Equal pay for women did not emerge from the EU, but from the fight started by the Ford women in the 1970s. Again done by British law.

No government, Right-wing or Coalition , has sought to undermine these rights. With only a majority of 12, even a new mad Tory Government would not do so. It would be political suicide.

The EU and workers’ rights is an oxymoron. Here’s a fact Remain dodge. The only place workers’ rights have been torn to shreds, and the fabric of society rent asunder has been in Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain.

The Greeks have been reduced to destitution. Public sector workers in Ireland were forced to take a cut of 25% in pay. In Portugal teachers have been sacked and low state pensions cut, and cut again. Youth unemployment ranges from 40-50% in the southern EU countries. All this done by the EU itself.

When the Greeks believed they could escape via a referendum Jean Claude Juncker, President of the Commission branded it an “irrelevant circus.” When it produced 61% against further austerity, the EU treated the result with contempt, crushed its Left wing government and made it the instrument of deeper cuts in workers’ rights and benefits.

No SNP Remain speaker ever mentions Greece, Ireland or Portugal, the latter going through the same imposed austerity trauma. Perhaps it would be too sharp a picture of the reality of who really can and does destroy workers’ rights.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14563557.Let_s_free_ourself_from_the_EU___and_the_deceit_that_surrounds_it/


Globalism IS NOT worker friendly. The eu embraces globalism. The eu is the enemy of working folk. If as you say the eu is 'worker friendly' then why the fvck did the greeks have to destroy their unions and any semblance of 'workers rights' on the orders of the eu?

You my friend are scared of change of any kind. And please try no to use trump as an example. You think anyone who opposes globalism is an idiot who can not form an opinion on anything.

Here's another couple of articles from labours inhouse magazine The New Statesman. But of course maybe the author is influenced by the right wing press eh?


"Why are so many on the left embarrassed by patriotism?
If Labour is to succeed, it must recognise the possibility of patriotic socialism - and stop other parties monopolising Britishness."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/01/why-are-so-many-left-embarrassed-patriotism


"The left wing case for leaving the EU

Supporters of the EU sneer “Little Englander” at those with a different opinion, but most of the arguments against membership are left-leaning and liberal."
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/06/john-king-left-wing-case-leaving-eu

GTO
"How many wars have started with nationalism?"

It's not just nationalism that starts wars mate. Look at the sects of islam fighting each other. Was castro a nationalist? Was lenin? Stalin? Mao? Yet the last three were godless 'socialist/communist' and killed countless millions of innocents. Patriotism is nothing to be ashamed off mate.

But as i said before change is happening. Ive banged on about how populist nationalism would rise in Europe since i first started posting in 2009. Neo liberalism/ globalism has reached its peak. Now its time to destroy it.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 195
view profile
History
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/8/2017 6:18:20 PM
Fake news, opposing views, things happen .... And when they do... Everyone sees things differently.
Politically correct, whether soft or erect... Our awareness is being stimulated sufficiently.

And in this world of tittilative attention grabbing... A flashy, fleshed out story gets the most attention.
Yet the real truth anymore unfortunately.... Seems to rate hardly an honorable mention.

Just another opinion of course.



.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 196
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/9/2017 7:29:33 AM
Its true, Islam fights each other like Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland. Back in the 1970's, however, there was another factor...pan Arabism, taken from the days of Saladin. Nasser, Quadaffi, Saddam were all thinking to make an empire under a green flag. Castro around the same time was trying to promote a Communist revolution in Central/South America with Che, later with Chavez

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=70378

was it a revolt against American colonialism of its southern neighors under the Monroe Doctrine? I'll let the college professors argue that one. I get your point about Communism spreading since the days of Comintern. I think, tho, they would get a foothold in a country that wanted its own identity, and sponsor nationalist groups in some cases. Those rebel groups may have been willing to take the sponsorship, but not the indoctrination. But that's going off topic. Patriotism shouldn't be something to be ashamed of, but it does get used improperly. I don't think any nation has ever attacked another with the claim, "let's go grab some land!" Even Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1991 with some BS about annexation of old territory and slanted oil wells stealing from Iraq and oil sales policies designed against Iraq. Soldiers will sacrifice their lives for patriotism, and to save the life of the soldier next to them. Beyond that, few other reasons work.

except, of course, fear. The Nazis influenced the world like few other empires, and for sure they ran on fear. But before they had the power that made them fearful to their own subjects, they had nationalism. People joined the putsches b/c of what they were handed after WW1 Thankfully, America hasn't had a Gestapo, but its had a Red Scare (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crucible) and under the Bush administration, debate against Iraq or the Patriot Act was silenced with claims of "unpatriotic".

We don't want to wait until its too late to stop going too far, but we don't want to arrest people for thoughtcrime either.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 197
view profile
History
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/9/2017 7:34:02 AM
Fake News
Another new year another cover up by germanys lying politicians, lying police and lying press. Yes the religion of peas went on the rampage and set fire to one of germanys oldest churches They ridicule the story as fake news because its from breitbart london. Yet the breitbart story is exactly the same as the lying press in germany reported............


"German press, together with establishment politicians, Germany’s police, and left-wing international news agencies have railed against Breitbart London’s reporting of an 1,000-strong crowd, many of whom were chanting ‘Allahu Akbar’, and firing fireworks at one of the oldest churches in Dortmund on New Year’s Eve.

The headlines — which lean on the establishment media’s new “fake news” trope — fail to reflect that reporting from some of the very same outlets now blasting Breitbart News confirmed almost every substantive fact about the Breitbart London report on the issue: there were 1,000, mostly male, mostly non-native German people gathered in the Leeds Square; there were repeated chants of “Allahu Akbar”; the ‘Free Syrian Army’ flag was flown; and there was a fire at the St. Reinold’s Church caused by the fireworks.

The only correction Breitbart London is happy to make is the age of the church, which does not constitute a substantive error in our reporting.

The “fake news” claims rely on a few points of apparent contention: the size of the mob in question, the religion of the men involved, the age of the church involved, and the size of the fire caused.

One witness of the event — Peter Bandermann from the Breitbart-critical Ruhr Nachricthen (RN) website — refused to assist Breitbart London in the reporting of the event, despite reporting it at length himself.

The effect of journalists refusing, on ideological grounds, to ensure stories are reported across the international press is both a sign of a partisan media, but also protects criminals, police ineffectiveness, and failing state policies.

One of the major points of contention raised in the “fake news” reports by AFP, the Guardian, the Independent, POLITICO, the Huffington Post, and German-language papers like Bild, Die Welt, and Deustche Welle is the size of the mob on the night in question.

Mr. Bandermann’s report states there were “Pyrotechnics thrown into crowds and at policemen”, describing scenes where fireworks were aimed at homeless people. According to RN, people were “seriously injured” and police described the culprits as “with and without migrant backgrounds”.

A video uploaded to the RN live blog of the night clearly shows a large mob of people recklessly releasing fireworks at buildings and each other. The video cuts to a group of men chanting “Syria” while dancing with the flag flown by the Free Syrian Army — a group noted even by the Washington Post to have had extreme levels of desertion to the Islamic State.

This, remember, is Ruhr Nachtrichten’s own reporting
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/01/08/fake-news-fake-news-media-sow-division-with-dishonest-attack-on-breitbarts-allahu-akbar-church-fire-story/

Now i dislike the bbc with a vengence but i have to admit this is very chucklesome ind e ed.

The real houswives of isis

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4m9ab54sf2E
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 198
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/9/2017 9:03:46 AM
Vlad, I'm not following your dispute with Jovan, but one thing I can tell you is that to a reasonable probability, Europe is facing economic chaos within a relatively short period of time to an extent that will rival the Great Depression. The World economies are heading for the abyss......and the working people in Greece, Italy, etc. are already feeling it. Brexit was to be expected under the circumstances but nothing is going to save Great Britain from the economic calamity that is coming... and will sweep into the US too, likely by the end of this year. Under the circumstances, going to be plenty of fake news, coming from the governments of the world also...just like the fake news in the US coming from the Fed and from Wallstreet...denying the huge financial bubbles that have formed due to all of the QE going on.

Jovan..grow the hell up. I estimate you are a guy in your 60s....whether you like it or not, tribalism is always going to be part of the Hunman Psyche. You need to start dealing with the way things are instead of the way you want them to be..
 JustinElle
Joined: 4/11/2015
Msg: 199
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/9/2017 3:45:24 PM
So no one considers the possibility or believes that TRUMP will be assassinated before he becomes president, or shortly afterwards or denied the presidency?


Its impossible, despite threatening the FBI and CIA with a clear out like Bobby Kennedy did, as we all know history repeats itself if people do not learn from it? Trump is also threatening the war against Russia and China which Hillary and friends wanted so much. Putin being the new HITLER if you remember her words.

THe drum have been beating for war for a few years, and have more recently got a lot louder, as the industrial military security complex wants more money for the private sector running the government, all of which Trump is threatening.

So should such a threat to corporate profits as the Kennedy's were be dealt with in the way certain interests devise....or not?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 200
Fake News is the point - its the new truth
Posted: 1/10/2017 9:11:10 AM
I have friends who ask the same question. If you believe presidential assassinations are not conspiracies with a patsy, but lone wolf acts, then other than JKJ trying to kill Reagan to impress Jodie Foster, what wingnut would find fault in Trump? Perhaps a racist who's "been watching closely" and thinks Trump didn't follow thru on some promise. Now, if you think the men in a smoke filled room with a closed door are running things, and responsible for taking out the boss man with the help of a patsy, then i'm pretty sure the powerful rich/Bilderbergers/freemasons/whatever see Trump as a narcissist they can manipulate.

I compare Trump to Bush II b/c of all the similarities I see. Both men aren't interested in the details and minutiae of running government, and a strong hand like D1ck Cheney can become quite a rain maker. JFK may have been taken down b/c he wasn't going to let others run things. tho, he did bring on RFK, and that's where our rules on nepotism sprung from. See any nepotism in the Trump White House? and yes, does Trump Tweets do anything to stock market prices?

Still, Trump has more billionaires in his cabinet than most other presidents, and a ton of generals. Does he seem to be ticking off "the powers that be" with that selection?

On a side note, "Trump has recently gotten negative attention for the poor quality of his Twitter following "

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everyone-has-fake-twitter-followers-but-trump-has-the-most-sad/
http://www.birdsonganalytics.com/blog/2016/05/05/donald-trump-twitter-analysis/

and yes, I liked the vid about real housewives of ISIS. If the show is like the preview, it targets radical Islamic terrorists for satire. Some Muslim characteristics get pulled in, but one couldn't make fun of America's excesses without pulling in some classically American characteristics, either. Now, if someone was to think ALL Muslims are like this show, then i'd say there's an issue. It would be nice if some of the good parts of Islam are also celebrated in this show, to make it equally balanced.

sometimes, we rely on comedy to become education. The problem with letting the television be the baby sitter.
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