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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world      Home login  
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 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 26
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History
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the worldPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
OP.... With the help of Comrade Trump I'm sure Vlad can make Russia great again.

Just an opinion I've formed by watching the news and what's been going down lately.
 JustinElle
Joined: 4/11/2015
Msg: 27
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/15/2017 3:24:48 PM
Some boring facts about the Russian THREAT and PUTIN’s plan to take over the world

The number of Troops NATO has 3,601,650

Russia has 766,000 Troops


The number of Tanks NATO has 19,133

Russia has 15,398 Tanks


The number of Aircraft NATO has 21,245

Russia has 3,547 Aircraft


The number of Naval Vessels NATO has is 1,774

Russia has 352 Navel Vessels


The total yearly spend of the Military Budget of NATO is ….842billion

Russia spends 46 billion a years on defense.


So where is this threat coming from?


Well in my opinion its media manipulation of facts, exploiting ignorance, distorting evidence, and just look at the self appointed know-all that boast of knowing while being exposed of sheer ignorance....and thanks for informing us of your narrow mindset.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 28
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/16/2017 7:29:02 AM
"So, where is this threat coming from?"

I'm sure the Ukrainians asked the same question when they woke up to borscht for breakfast :)

let's see, cyberwarfare, natural gas for Europe, new nuclear program, new arms to sell...yep, Russia sure is a paper tiger. Harmless as a fly. We should vote for whatever Putin tells us to do.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/08/middleeast/syria-aleppo-russia-strategy/index.html

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21643220-russias-aggression-ukraine-part-broader-and-more-dangerous-confrontation
 Canandaigua_Momma
Joined: 12/16/2015
Msg: 29
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History
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/16/2017 11:44:54 PM
President Trump earned more electoral college votes.
Secretary of State Clinton ran an inefficient campaign.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 30
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/17/2017 4:31:39 AM
"""""I'm sure the Ukrainians asked the same question when they woke up to borscht for breakfast :)"""""

Is that like us waking up to "Press one for English?"

----------------------------

The whole "popular vote" thing makes them feel better. Just let them.

 2ufo2
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 31
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/17/2017 11:30:43 AM
Russia taking over the Crimea has a lot more history than most Americans realize.

Like all history, very interesting as well.
 forumslady
Joined: 12/7/2016
Msg: 32
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/17/2017 12:01:37 PM
deetristate- "The whole "popular vote" thing makes them feel better."
The concept of the electoral college isn't hard to grasp, it makes sure states with smaller populations have equal say in the election.
The movement for the electoral college to nullify Trumps win smacked with desperation. I don't like him even a little bit, but I'm not going to ask that something that has stood for so long be used to pacify people that should have known better.
Democrats were SO certain of Clinton, but Republican's didn't fare much better with their choices.
What's amazing to me is all of the partisan talk, who voted for Trump, who voted for Clinton.
Both choices were embarrassing. I hate the "you choose her" accusations from conservatives. I most certainly did NOT choose EITHER of them.
Meanwhile, I wonder if anyone else other than me keeps asking about the people who did NOT vote.
What would be different now?
People fought and died for that right.
People ignoring the Russia issue are a mystery to me. History ignored has a tendency to repeat itself.
God knows, I hope this past election fiasco doesn't.
Will more people vote next time? One wonders.
 2ufo2
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 33
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/17/2017 4:01:46 PM
^^^^
I hope more people vote.
I worry that the next election will be an intensification of Trump's campaign - promising everything to everyone, twitting his fingers off, his name in the news because of his bad behavior (but - hey - it's name recognition).
 forumslady
Joined: 12/7/2016
Msg: 34
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/17/2017 5:29:31 PM
2ufo2- "I hope more people vote."
Me too.
"I worry that the next election will be an intensification of Trump campaign."
Let's hope not. He's awful busy burning bridges behind him every where he goes.
Sooner or later he'll go too far with the wrong person or the wrong cause.
Maybe he'll go after the NRA or diss Reagan. OR he could admit wrestling is fake. Most of his followers would turn on him for sure then. ;) :D
 2ufo2
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 35
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/17/2017 5:35:36 PM
I wasn't necessarily referring to Trump but rather the fact that all that has now become not only 'acceptable' but a sure road to the presidency.
 forumslady
Joined: 12/7/2016
Msg: 36
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/17/2017 5:46:20 PM
2ufo2- Oh, I see, other's copying his strategy.
Maybe they won't just out of fear he'll sue them, proprietary rights to twitter or some such.
Seriously though, I really hope nothing like that ever happens again.
My greatest hope is that both sides realize they need to put someone on the ticket that half the country won't hate the day they take office.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 37
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History
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/21/2017 4:50:52 PM

Some boring facts about the Russian THREAT and PUTIN’s plan to take over the world

The number of Troops NATO has 3,601,650

Russia has 766,000 Troops


The number of Tanks NATO has 19,133

Russia has 15,398 Tanks


The number of Aircraft NATO has 21,245

Russia has 3,547 Aircraft


The number of Naval Vessels NATO has is 1,774

Russia has 352 Navel Vessels


The total yearly spend of the Military Budget of NATO is ….842billion

Russia spends 46 billion a years on defense.


So where is this threat coming from?


Well in my opinion its media manipulation of facts, exploiting ignorance, distorting evidence, and just look at the self appointed know-all that boast of knowing while being exposed of sheer ignorance....and thanks for informing us of your narrow mindset.
Submit


Doubling down, I see.

I know you refuse to read or think, so I'm not posting this for you. Just for the people who DO actually use reason.

Again, this rendition is of the FAKE "threat," which NO ONE is actually promoting. It is designed specifically to allow people to go on that attack (as this OP is) against the NON-EXISTENT complaints, and knock them down, as the straw men that they are.

The reason WHY it is so easy to mount a list of facts such as the above, is because the FAKE THREAT is designed to BE easy to refute with those facts.

Again. World Domination is NOT what is in the offing, and never has been. By playing people like the OP into opposing ANY action against Russia, the actual threats that Russia and Putin are carrying out, will be ignored as well, by default.

This technique is very similar to another one, which I am sure that the OP has repeatedly been suckered by as well.

The other trick, is the "advance leak of a (false) horrifying and extreme plan by the people in power" scheme.

It is done very similarly. Say, for example, that the people in charge want to raise your taxes by oh, say, seven percent. They know you will howl if they do, because they promised No New Taxes or some such, in order to get you to vote them into power in the first place.

So what they do is, they set up an entirely fake LEAK, that MSM jumps on (because they are suckers for "leaks,"), to the effect that they are planning to announce a TWENTY-THREE PERCENT tax hike. They allow the controversy to brew for a while, even helping the hype, by feigning outrage over both the leak, and the "lie" that the MSM is promoting.

Finally, as the hubbub just reaches a fever pitch, with everyone fearful of the 25% hike, they quietly announce the 7% hike, and everyone is relieved and laughing about it.

This whole poo-pooing of the fake World Domination fear, is the same trick played (again successfully) on the OP and others like him.
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/22/2017 5:11:32 AM
How's about we try to imagine a pre or post IS radical islam group who has very few tanks and guns, etc, but do have or are trying to obtain a nuclear bomb, and make regular bombs, and are always recruiting replacements for their suicide soldiers, and are known to be trying to get into the U.S. and detonate any number of aforementioned bombs...and someone talks about the 'threat', citing their size and number of arms such that it downplays the threat they represent.
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/22/2017 7:47:42 AM
Inevitably as always, some details and accuracy may be in question, but here's one thing I've found on Russian history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Wmc8C0Eq0

When trying to decide what kind of nation that a country is, one of the things that we do is look at it's history. But a nation can have a checkered past, as with the U.S. and the U.K. for examples, and there can be a difference between that and what a nation is trying to be in the here and now, and in the future. A nation's birth, evolution, and present state often does not reflect a continual intentional direction or predetermined organization, and really is a bit of a haphazard series of conflicting motivations and ideals.

One framework of understanding for myself that at least seems applicable is that the 'European Cold Civil War' of the period encompassed by the First and Second World War and the time in between demarcates a particular change - Before this time, individual nation state practices or directions notwithstanding, there seemed mostly to be a global zeitgeist for nation's rulers or governments...an accepted norm...defined by:

Expansion by force/physical violence; A degree of indifference towards, or lack of value placed upon, certain Human Rights and the general populace having much power concerning certain national policies; A government or ruler's practices designed around them being and remaining in power and/or designed with the nation state's well being as it's own singular entity in mind...in lieu of the lives and rights of the people of that nation.

But WW2, either in appearance or authentically, seemed to mark a global embracing of the idea of the end of expansion via war, as well as a new value placed upon Human Rights, quality of life for the common citizen, some degree of equality and influence/power in national affairs and policies being in the hands of the common cittizen...the behaviors of individual nation states notwithstanding, and the imperfections in these areas also notwithstanding.

So, in other words, after WW2, conquest via war/force was no longer en vogue, global-zeitgeist-speaking. And value and recognition of various rights of common citizenry is an expected criteria and yardstick for a nation state's legitimacy globally.

Some of the one existed long before WW2, and some of the other still remains long after...but it seems like an evolutionary threshold was crossed during this period, and it's more and more an expected norm for a nation state to structure itself and behave in the one way versus the other.

It may perhaps be said that it's not fair to judge Putin or Russia according to certain tactics employed from one time to another...relative to other nation states and governments, that is. What they have to do is what they have to do, and certain contextual factors must be taken into account. Their intended goal or motivations may not be perfectly reflected.

If Putin and the nation which he represents have laudable intentions...according to one set of criteria versus another...he/they still suffer an image problem that he/they don't seem to be addressing correctly, or it's a problem of information or propaganda. Today, some nation states can be quite imperfect and have that questionably checkered past...but if they are or appear to be trying to not be corrupt, value human rights, place some nation-ruling power in the hands of the people, and aren't trying to conquer the world in the pre WW1 sense, then they can still have the gleam of 'rightness', so to speak. Nonetheless recognized as representing a kind of moral benchmark and yardstick. And that's what I feel has been one of the biggest influences on a nation state's globally recognized legitimacy and attitudes towards it since the 1940's.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 40
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/22/2017 6:54:34 PM
Yay flyers.
Atlanta plays street football so it should be interesting.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 41
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History
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/23/2017 1:13:36 AM

The number of Troops NATO has 3,601,650

Russia has 766,000 Troops


Germany almost beat Russia in world war 2. They were at the edge of Moscow but made too many mistakes, didn't have a superpower like America supplying them and the winter set in. That was with only 3 million troops and they were seriously outnumbered by tanks. Russia will never take over the world unless they start launching nukes.
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 42
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History
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 1/29/2017 5:28:37 PM

Some boring facts about the Russian THREAT and PUTIN’s plan to take over the world

The number of Troops NATO has 3,601,650

Russia has 766,000 Troops


The number of Tanks NATO has 19,133

Russia has 15,398 Tanks


The number of Aircraft NATO has 21,245

Russia has 3,547 Aircraft


The number of Naval Vessels NATO has is 1,774

Russia has 352 Navel Vessels


The total yearly spend of the Military Budget of NATO is ….842billion

Russia spends 46 billion a years on defense.


So where is this threat coming from?


First - Igor is right on in his assessment, as he usually is, so I'll leave his points as they are. What I'm going to do is try to show you how those facts you state don't matter.

Second - spending money does not guarantee military success. Examples: Viet Nam vs France, Viet Nam vs USA, Castro vs Batista, Russia vs Afganistan, or - one you may have some passing familiarity with - the Revolutionary War you lot fought against the British to send them back to their side of the pond.
So the US/NATO outnumbers Russia in men aircraft, tanks, and navel vessels. (You forgot artillery, and almost every other category of military equipment, 'cept for nukes, but we'll leave that one alone for now).

Does it matter? Nope. Not one little bit.

You see, how much stuff you have (and therefore, all the money you spent getting it) is absolutely immaterial. What DOES matter, however, is how much of it you can DELIVER TO THE BATTLEFIELD. You may have 20 tanks at your disposal, while I have 20,000. I should win, right? Not necessarily. If you decide to fight in an area where you have 15 or your 20 tanks, while I only have 2 of my 20,000, I'm screwed. Totals don't win wars or battles - BATTLEFIELD superiority does. How the hell do you think Blitzkrieg worked during WWII? At the start of WWII, the Allies had more total aircraft and tanks than Germany - how much of a difference did THAT make?

Now, let's look at the practicalities. Let's pretend for a moment that Putin really is as stupid as you seem to think others think he is, and goes on TV tomorrow, rants for 6 hours, and finishes up with "So I hereby declare war on the world!

NOW, the totals are going to matter. Because the battlefield is going to be all of Russia, and it will be relativly easy for the USA and it's NATO allies to bring their forces to bear. (assuming he's stupid enough to do that, but not stupid enough to start throwing nukes around). Guess that makes you right.

Except Putin is NOT that stupid - not by a long shot. He's going to do the same thing every Russian/SOviet leader has ever done. pick ... pick ... pick .... pick .... He'll pick some place out of the way of the Allies like - oh, say - the Ukraine. How many tanks Russia vs Ukraine? How many aircraft? How many uniforms? All of a sudden, your math doesn't matter, because they aren't involved. Oh, and one other thing. By far and away, the most single effective weapon Putin had in the Ukraine, that was overwhelmingly responsible for his victory, didn't cost him a single (red) cent. It's called SURPRISE.

"But the Ukraine isn't a NATO member, so it doesn't count" I hear you say. OK, let's pick another example.

Let's try Europe, and pretends he decides he wants to go into Poland (a Russian tradition), or the Baltic states (another Russian tradition). Because he's starting the fight, he's (presumably) prepared. So he blows the whistle, and the fight is on. Because he's prepared, every one of his 15,000 tanks is inside Poland (or Latvia, or Lithuania, or Norway, or wherever) inside of a few hours. Well .... how are the Allies going to get THEIR tanks there? Even if by some miraculous stroke of good luck every tank in their inventory was in a transport ready to go, it would take days/weeks to get them over there, organized, and ready to push back .... assuming the transports had some place to land. By this time, Putin has every airfield in the country. Beginning to see the problem now? SO they land in Germany, France, England, maybe the Low Countries, and start driving. By the time they get there, Poland is already a Russian satellite. SO they park on the border, the allies park on their side of the border, and that's pretty well it - because the Allies won't risk invading WHAT IS NOW RUSSIA. And Putin got what he wanted.

It's easy to explain Russian paranoia if you know anything about it's history - but it's real, and it's not going away any time soon. The idea that Russia is a poor, defenseless put-upon peacenik that the world keeps picking on is a total, utter, 100% bullshite.

And don't come back at me as being some sort of commie-hating, anti-Russian demagogue. You're talking to somebody who has an honours degree in Soviet & East European Studies, and who's screen name everywhere online but here is AdmiralGorshkov or some variant.
 JustinElle
Joined: 4/11/2015
Msg: 43
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 2/3/2017 10:20:58 AM
United States maintains nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad.

Britain, France and Russia, by contrast, have about 30 foreign bases combined.

The United States likely has more bases in foreign lands than any other people, nation, or empire in history.

Placing US bases near the borders of countries like China, Russia, and Iran, for example, increases threats to their security and encourages them to respond by boosting their own military spending and activity. Imagine how US leaders would respond if China were to build even a single small base in Mexico, Canada, or the Caribbean. Notably, the most dangerous moment during the Cold War—the 1962 Cuban missile crisis—revolved around the construction of Soviet nuclear missile facilities in Cuba, roughly 90 miles from the US border.

These days bases are increasingly found in parts of Africa and Eastern Europe that had previously lacked much of a US military presence.

There are US troops or other military personnel in about 160 foreign countries and territories, including small numbers of marines guarding embassies and larger deployments of trainers and advisors like the roughly 3,500 now working with the Iraqi Army. And don’t forget the Navy’s 11 aircraft carriers. Each should be considered a kind of floating base, or as the Navy tellingly refers to them, “four and a half acres of sovereign US territory.” Finally, above the seas, one finds a growing military presence in space.

Tee chicken feed propaganda to the mob, in insisting that bases abroad “maintained the peace” and were “symbols of… US commitments to allies and friends.” The Obama administration similarly declared that protecting the American people and international security “requires a global security posture.”

Maintaining installations and troops overseas cost at least $85 billion in 2014—more than the discretionary budget of every government agency except the Defense Department itself. If the US presence in Afghanistan and Iraq is included, that bill reaches $156 billion or more. Bases may be costly for taxpayers, they are extremely profitable for the country’s privateers of twenty-first-century war like DynCorp International and former Halliburton subsidiary KBR. As Chalmers Johnson noted, “Our installations abroad bring profits to civilian industries,” which win billions in contracts annually to “build and maintain our far-flung outposts.”

Investing taxpayer dollars in the construction and maintenance of overseas bases means forgoing investments in areas like education, transportation, housing, and healthcare, despite the fact that these industries are more of a boon to overall economic productivity and create more jobs compared to equivalent military spending. Think about what $85 billion per year would mean in terms of rebuilding the country’s crumbling civilian infrastructure.

In the absence of a superpower enemy, the argument that bases many thousands of miles from US shores are necessary to defend the United States—or even its allies—is a hard argument to make. On the contrary, the global collection of bases has generally enabled the launching of military interventions, drone strikes, and wars of choice that have resulted in repeated disasters, costing millions of lives and untold destruction from Vietnam to Iraq.

The creation of new US bases to protect against imagined future Chinese or Russian threats runs the risk of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. These bases may ultimately help create the very threat they are supposedly designed to protect against. The United States has entered a permanent state of war with an economy, a government, and a global system of power enmeshed in preparations for future conflicts.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 44
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 2/3/2017 10:49:09 AM
years ago, America moved its crescent of military bases from a necklace around the USSR, south to a worldwide arc thru Muslim/African areas. But you forgot the damage done by the pollution left behind by military paint, fuel depots, etc.

http://apjjf.org/-Yokemoto-Masafumi/3185/article.html

http://www.toxicspot.com/military/

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/u-s-military-the-world-s-largest-polluter/

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/07/25/us-military-supposed-protect-countrys-citizens-and-soldiers-not-poison-them-259103.html

https://qz.com/767028/us-military-pollution-in-greenland-the-desolate-landscape-of-bluie-east-two-air-base/

that's not even including damage from weaponry like Agent Orange or Depleted Uranium rounds, or naval sonar noise in the oceans.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 45
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 2/3/2017 12:10:14 PM
Was anything posted by anyone suppose to contradict what Justin wrote?
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 46
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 2/3/2017 12:41:50 PM

Was anything posted by anyone suppose to contradict what Justin wrote?


I'm wondering if that was a question, rant, informative lingo, or just plain old Dipsy jibberish?????
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 47
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 2/3/2017 1:26:03 PM
Walt/Irish loves me!
But pulling my ponytail is not going to get you a date.

Sorry.




I
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 48
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 2/3/2017 1:31:07 PM

Sorry.


For?????

If you can't speak English, it really isn't your fault.
You could blame the media.
Or, some other vision that you have in your head.

All I am asking out of you, is to type something readable.

If you are unable, no worries. We'll start taking that into consideration when trying to read what you think you are trying to say.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 49
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 2/3/2017 1:35:28 PM
You know you love me.

Sorry that I can't reciprocate.

But you MUST stop making your posts about me all the time.

Really

 JustinElle
Joined: 4/11/2015
Msg: 50
The Russian Threat - Putin's plan to take over the world
Posted: 2/7/2017 3:46:14 PM
Once upon a time clever people who did not want to be exposed as frauds, used the favorite argument "CONSPIRACY THEORY" This was designed to trash anything they disagreed with, to kill debate.

Today we have people who regard facts as irrelevant, thus FAKE FACTS as opinions are what now now count.

Fake news is the new PUT DOWN for promoters of Conspiracy Theorists trying to assert they flagging egos.

The point being throw enough sh*t at something and some is sure to stick.

Trying to be clever trying to use emotional language to deny fact appealing to the chicken fed mainstream media junkies, in the usual trust me, I know what I know but please do not ask me to prove my opinions as they are a strong belief and if one believes is fairies then there are fairies. Or is that weapons of deception, or saving an promoting democracy and freedom through war.

The pathological driven appear credible, cannot deal with facts, but opinion is how they convince the empty headed chickens.
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