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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Mike Pence and Trump on Israel      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 326
Mike Pence and Trump on IsraelPage 14 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)

^^^^^Surely you jest.....YIKES!!! You may want to start and ask Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump your nonsense


None of us living here(or our descendants) in North America, have ever received an invite from the original residents to come and take the land of which they lived. That includes Dipsy, John boy, and even me. No political party even needs to be mentioned, let alone a politician. But, of course, that doesn't stop half of you to include to the non stop gibberish in all of your comments.
 Doubleknotspy7
Joined: 8/10/2016
Msg: 327
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 10:32:04 AM
I read that too John and it is totally non sensical. As is the above.
If you feel you have no right to be here old timer than leave!

As for Palestine it is the home of present day Israel and previously the home of ancient Jews .
There is no question that the Jews were on the land first.
Muslim Arabs did not arrive till the Muslim conquest of Palestine in 640 AD.
At the time of Israels creation in 1948 (offered by the United Nations) there were Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Christians in the area.
Prior to last century there was no one people called Palestinians. This happened after 1964.
Yasser Arafat (an Egyptian) created the myth.
Remember, the 1947 partition of Palestine offered the Arabs in the region their own country and control of East Jerusalem yet they rejected the notion because it was a two state plan.
The recently created Palestinian people must accept a two state solution and disavow the ideal of the destruction of Israel in order for there to be a lasting peace.
Trumps brilliance is simply in committing to Congress' and Nancy Pelosi's plan to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem and showing the Arabs/Palestinians that asking for Israel out of Jerusalem is a non starter as the Jews were their first and the longest.

Merry Christmas and a Happy Eid al-Adha
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 328
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 10:36:55 AM
^ like i said the US is Israel's pimp, they really don't need to look the part tho, we get it

fleecenavidad... how is Puerto Rico doing these days america ?
 toocash
Joined: 9/5/2017
Msg: 329
too Just Busted Himself!
Posted: 12/9/2017 10:39:54 AM
Herod, we have had the counter facts posted forever now... for example.....the fact that Jews purchased much of the property in the former Ottoman empire territory before the 1948 War. Regardless, none of this matters, nor does your or my belief in the God of Abraham. The Jews were killed by White Christians by the millions for believing in the God of Abraham, they then finally fought back and took back their ancestral homeland...first from the British, who got it from the Ottoman Empire . . . the Turks.... and then from Jordan in the 67 War. You have been claiming forever Israel is failing....and yet.... it has never been stronger... even has Saudi Arabia among its allies right now. Israel will survive until the end of the world.....there is really nobody who can challenge it at this point in time without risking their own self destruction. Very sad for the antisemites.

AND YES... the contempt you, Elphaba, etc. show for "Zionists" make you anti-semites beyond a doubt. Your denying it does not change the absolute fact that you are exactly what you rail against... a racist... in this case you have contempt for the Jewish Race or at least the Jewish relegion.... very sad.


like i said the US is Israel's pimp, they really don't need to look the part tho, we get it


If true...tough sh^t :-). Even Trump can do the right thing occasionally.
 Doubleknotspy7
Joined: 8/10/2016
Msg: 330
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 11:05:48 AM

^ like i said the US is Israel's pimp, they really don't need to look the part tho, we get it

Looks like a new wing for the POF HOF - POF HOF Bigots Wing

The committee is considering now.
.
Meanwhile in Israel (after all it is in the thread title)... Jerusalem is still the capitol city of Israel as it has been since the day Israel was founded.

Life Goes On
Merry Christmas All, Yes Even You Bigots
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 331
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 11:16:50 AM

If you feel you have no right to be here old timer than leave!



Like when you ran away from the last city you lived in with your tail between your legs?????

You mean that kind of leaving????

You probably should check your birth certificate before trying to use name calling as your choice of weapon when you are trying to insult someone.

Your skills are lacking for that kind of thing but, you know what they say, practise, practise, practise!!!!!!!!!
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 332
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 11:22:17 AM

As for Palestine it is the home of present day Israel and previously the home of ancient Jews .
There is no question that the Jews were on the land first.
Muslim Arabs did not arrive till the Muslim conquest of Palestine in 640 AD.
At the time of Israels creation in 1948 (offered by the United Nations) there were Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Christians in the area.

I posted the demographics of Palestine, going back to about 1850
Stop talking gibberish, you're just making yourself look (more) foolish

Prior to last century there was no one people called Palestinians. This happened after 1964.

Such ignorance.
It was already called Palestine at the time of the Balfour Declaration.
Palestine is thought to be derived from "Philistine", the people who the angry sky-pixie told his followers to kill.

Yasser Arafat (an Egyptian) created the myth.

"Moses" (another Egyptian) led the first conquest, apparently "god" said he'd "send hornets",
The "israelites" captured the land by the same method the first time they lived there: by murdering everyone, as instructed by their invisible sky-pixie.
"Moses" heard voices apparently. Today, they can offer medication for that.
(After they ALL moved from Egypt, if you believe fairy-stories)
As in

When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.
-Deuteronomy 7:1-2

They haven't changed much, have they? .

You really show a woefully inadequate knowledge of YOUR own "sacred scriptures".
Maybe it's best if you just stop talking about subjects which you clearly know nothing about.
-Now I think of it, that would be just about everything.

It's no good getting all angry at us, just because the tories are now such a tiny minority where you live.
-that must be hard....
Trudeau 2020
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 333
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 11:43:56 AM
lolz... imma bigot for pointing out the below? that's rich especially coming from the other mirror licker, albeit the spit licked mirror is smaller and a rear view one

Israel's settlement project in East Jerusalem, which is aimed at the consolidation of Israel's control over the city, is also considered illegal under international law.

The UN has affirmed in several resolutions that the settlement project is in direct contravention of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which prohibits an occupying country from transferring its population into the areas it occupies.
While Palestinians live under apartheid-like conditions, Israelis enjoy a sense of normality, guaranteed for them by their state.


Trudeau 2020


here's hoping Jagmeet Singh makes 'uge strides in the next fed election
 Doubleknotspy7
Joined: 8/10/2016
Msg: 334
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 12:13:41 PM
Reading Comprehension!

I posted the demographics of Palestine, going back to about 1850
Stop talking gibberish, you're just making yourself look (more) foolish


Ya so... That proves only one thing that Jews have always been there going back several centuries BC.
Certainly longer than the present day Palestinians. Muslims don't arrive till the 6th century AD.
In 1850 the population was Palestinian Christians, Palestinian Muslims, Palestinian Jews
How many Jews were there when Palestine got its name - see below.
1850 is an arbitrary date and has no greater relevance than any other date in regards to todays situation.


Such ignorance.
It was already called Palestine at the time of the Balfour Declaration.
Palestine is thought to be derived from "Philistine", the people who the angry sky-pixie told his followers to kill.

It was named Palestine by the Romans and guess who and how many the Romans conquered... 1 million Jews in the land called Judea!
Debatable that Moses was Egyptian but he was the leader of the Israelites.
And thank you for proving my point that the Palestinians of today were created in the 20th century.


When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.
-Deuteronomy 7:1-2

They haven't changed much, have they? .

Who's they?
Now notice no mention of Palestinians in Deuteronomy however they are... the Jews!
Modern Day Palestinians are arab and the arabs came from the Arabian Peninsula not Palestine.
Modern day Palestinians evolved form the nomadic tribes of the various surrounding nations and territories.
Do some research first.


You really show a woefully inadequate knowledge of YOUR own "sacred scriptures".
Maybe it's best if you just stop talking about subjects which you clearly know nothing about.
-Now I think of it, that would be just about everything.

As a Christian(Catholic Christian) I do not focus on the Old Testament but rather the New. Those "sacred scriptures are also the basis for Judaism, Christianity and Islam as all three religions have their roots in the descendants of Abraham.
So you see same God for each religion just men like you confusing it all.
As a history buff I just enjoy helping your education.


It's no good getting all angry at us, just because the tories are now such a tiny minority where you live.
-that must be hard....

Who's angry do you see me swearing in here?
I love the opportunity to school you and others of your ilk (thank you cotter) in here.
Actually latest polls have the UCP winning in a landslide in Alberta.
Then again you would have to actually read to know that.

Trudeau 2020

Is that your prediction because the next Canadian Federal Election must be held before or on October 21, 2019.
Your boy might be a little late in filing.
Ignorance is such bliss, eh!
 toocash
Joined: 9/5/2017
Msg: 335
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 12:22:28 PM
Even after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and
the beginning of the exile, Jewish life in the land of Israel continued
and often flourished. Large communities were reestablished in Jerusalem
and Tiberias by the ninth century. In the eleventh century, Jewish
communities grew in Rafah, Gaza, Ashkelon, Jaffa, and Caesarea. The
Crusaders massacred many Jews during the twelfth century, but the
community rebounded in the next two centuries as large numbers of
rabbis and Jewish pilgrims immigrated to Jerusalem and the Galilee.
Prominent rabbis established communities in Safed, Jerusalem, and
elsewhere during the following three hundred years.
By the early nineteenth century— years before the birth of the modern
Zionist movement— more than ten thousand Jews lived through-
out what is today Israel.1
The seventy-eight years of nation-building,
beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish
State.
Israel’s international “birth certificate” was validated by the promise
of the Bible; uninterrupted Jewish settlement from the time of
Joshua onward; the Balfour Declaration of 1917; the League of Nations
Mandate, which incorporated the Balfour Declaration; the United Nations
partition resolution of 1947; Israel’s admission to the UN in 1949;
the recognition of Israel by most other states; and—most of all—the
society created by Israel’s people in decades of thriving, dynamic national
existence.
Nobody does Israel any service by proclaiming its “right to exist.” Israel’s
right to exist, like that of the United States, Saudi Arabia and
152 other states, is axiomatic and unreserved. Israel’s legitimacy is not
suspended in midair awaiting acknowledgement . . . There is certainly
no other state, big or small, young or old, that would consider mere
recognition of its “right to exist” a favor, or a negotiable concession.
—Abba Eban2
 toocash
Joined: 9/5/2017
Msg: 336
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 12:23:35 PM
MYTH
Palestine was always an Arab country.
FACT
The term “Palestine” is believed to be derived from the Philistines,
an Aegean people who, in the twelfth century BCE, settled along the
Mediterranean coastal plain—now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the
second century CE, after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans
first applied the name Palaestina to Judea (the southern portion of
what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish
identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word Filastin is derived
from this Latin name.3
The Hebrews entered the land of Israel about 1300 BCE, living
under a tribal confederation until being united under the first monarch,
King Saul. The second king, David, established Jerusalem as the
capital around 1000 BCE. David’s son, Solomon, built the Temple soon
thereafter and consolidated the military, administrative, and religious
functions of the kingdom. The nation was divided under Solomon’s
son, with the northern kingdom (Israel) lasting until 722 BCE, when
the Assyrians destroyed it, and the southern kingdom (Judah) surviving
until the Babylonian conquest in 586 BCE. The Jewish people
1. Israel’s Roots 3
enjoyed brief periods of sovereignty afterward until most Jews were
finally driven from their homeland in 135 CE.
Jewish independence in the land of Israel lasted for more than four
hundred years. This is much longer than Americans have enjoyed independence
in what has become known as the United States.4
In fact,
if not for foreign conquerors, Israel would be more than three thousand
years old today.
Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic
gradually became the language of most of the population after the
Muslim invasions of the seventh century. No independent Arab or
Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine. When the distinguished
Arab-American historian, Princeton University professor Philip Hitti,
testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in
1946, he said, “There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ in history, absolutely
not.”5
Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having
a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian
Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian
representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, they adopted the following
resolution:
We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never
been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it
by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic, and geographical
bonds.6
Similarly, the King-Crane commission found that Christian and
Muslim Arabs opposed any plan to create a country called “Palestine,”
because it was viewed as recognition of Zionist claims.7
In 1937, a
local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul Hadi, told the Peel Commission,
which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: “There is no
such country as Palestine! ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented!
There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part
of Syria.”8
The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations
echoed this view in a statement to the General Assembly in May
1947, which said Palestine was part of the Province of Syria and the
Arabs of Palestine did not comprise a separate political entity. A few
years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the
Security Council: “It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing
but southern Syria.”9
Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post–World War I phenomenon
that did not become a significant political movement until after
the 1967 Six-Day War. Today, the Palestinian people have international
recognition and claim the rights to self-determination, independence,
and territory. “Urgently required is a peaceful process that respects
the dignity of both peoples,” wrote Allen Hertz, a former Canadian
government official, “and [that] effects a reconciliation of the subsequent
rights of the newly emerged Palestinian people with the prior
rights of the ancient Jewish people.”10
 toocash
Joined: 9/5/2017
Msg: 337
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 12:29:18 PM
^^^ the problem Herod, Elphaba and the other antisemites on the board have is they keep insisting Israelis claim the right to Israel and Jerusalem by the Bible....No....Israelis claims the right to Israel and Jerusalem through continuous occupation, more or less, for thousands of years.... and because they built the City. The Grifters, like Herod, would have people believe the Jews just showed up in the middle of the 20th Century, and without any legal authority simply took what did not belong to them....that's because they are by definition antisemites, so always let the actual facts get in the way. Herod of course has attacked the legitimacy of Israel since day one on his coming to this board and Elphaba Cotter always spoke with contempt about Zionists ..I have not seen her around lately, can't say I miss her. Note...when people rail against "zionists" they are railing against Jews, because almost all Jews are zionists in they support the country of Israel....
 toocash
Joined: 9/5/2017
Msg: 338
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 12:36:04 PM
MYTH
Zionism is racism.
FACT
In 1975, the UN General Assembly adopted a resolution slandering
Zionism by equating it with racism. Zionism is the national liberation
movement of the Jewish people, which holds that Jews, like any
other nation, are entitled to self-determination in their homeland—
Israel.
Zionism recognizes that Jewishness is defined by shared origin, religion,
culture, and history. The realization of the Zionist dream is exemplified
by more than six million Jews, from more than one hundred
countries, who are Israeli citizens.
Israel’s Law of Return grants automatic citizenship to Jews, but
non-Jews are also eligible to become citizens under naturalization procedures
similar to those in other countries. For example, Germany,
Greece, Ireland, and Finland have special categories of people who
are entitled to citizenship.
More than one million Muslim and Christian Arabs, Druze, Baha’is,
Circassians, and other ethnic groups also are represented in Israel’s
population. The presence in Israel of thousands of Jews “of color”
from Ethiopia, Yemen, and India is the best refutation of the calumny
against Zionism.
Zionism does not discriminate against anyone. Israel’s open and
democratic character, and its scrupulous protection of the religious
and political rights of Christians and Muslims, rebuts the charge of exclusivity.
Moreover, anyone—Jew or non-Jew, Israeli, American, Chinese,
black, white, or purple—can be a Zionist.
By contrast, the Arab states define citizenship strictly by native
parentage. It is almost impossible to become a naturalized citizen in
Arab states such as Algeria, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait. Several Arab
nations have laws that facilitate the naturalization of foreign Arabs,
with the specific exception of Palestinians. Jordan, on the other hand,
instituted its own “law of return” in 1954, according citizenship to all
former residents of Palestine, except for Jews and Gazans.22 In 2004,
however, Jordan began revoking the citizenship of Palestinians who
lacked Israeli permits to reside in the West Bank.
23
The 1975 UN resolution was part of the Soviet-Arab Cold War antiIsrael
campaign. Almost all the former non-Arab supporters of the
resolution have apologized and changed their positions. When the
General Assembly voted to repeal the resolution in 1991, only some
Arab and Muslim states, as well as Cuba, North Korea, and Vietnam
were opposed.
1. Israel’s Roots 9
For the first time in history, thousands of black people are being brought
to a country not in chains but in dignity, not as slaves but as citizens.
—William Safire writing after “Operation Moses”
rescued black Jews from Ethiopia24
 Doubleknotspy7
Joined: 8/10/2016
Msg: 339
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 12:38:42 PM
Truly what is your IQ?

You just proved that the Jews have been in Judea/Palestine/ Israel centuries longer than present day Arabs/Palestinians.
At least you gave up on the 1850 crap when Palestinians were - Jews, Christians and Muslims.

What you also proved is that there is no connection of present day Palestinians and Philistines.
One theory has it that the Philistines were Greek.
Todays Palestinians are Arab - Arabian peninsula not Greeks.
Big difference .
Again the Palestinians are not to be confused with the Philistines.

It really doesn't matter at this point, the Israeli's are not giving up their ancestral homeland any time soon.

Keep reading though it showing signs...
 toocash
Joined: 9/5/2017
Msg: 340
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 12:57:31 PM
^^^ are you talking to me Zero... asking for my IQ? You don't think I know exactly what I am posting?

 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 341
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 1:07:16 PM
Look, it's really very simple:
"Sky-pixies told us to do it/ gave it to us", is just not a credible defence, anymore.
Sorry, but there you are.
I've said it.

-It used to work, when religious men were torturing and abusing people, and burning them to death.....
It still worked in 1917, when this fantasy was dreamed-up.
-But, not anymore.

Lots of (other) criminals have tried it.

So, when that psychopath, Netanyahu stands in our parliament, and waves a "bible", declaring; "this is our right to the land",
our politicians smiled and nodded,
but were giving sideways looks at each other,
like you do, when you're listening to someone who is truly demented.

The time of fairy stories is coming to an end.
-Funches 3:27 :14 hup.
 toocash
Joined: 9/5/2017
Msg: 342
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 1:12:06 PM
^^^ Yep...you will go with this con job of a story forever just as you have been doing so forever. You are like Trump....you just lie repeatedly because either you don't care about the facts or you don't understand the facts. Very sad :-(
 Doubleknotspy7
Joined: 8/10/2016
Msg: 343
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/9/2017 2:29:05 PM
My God thats horrible Jo.
What did "sky-pixies" tell you to do?
Don't they respect how fragile you are?
Perhaps if you stopped believing in "sky-pixies" Jo they would go away!
Just sayin'.

Why would a Jew wave the Bible?
And what Parliament is that you speak of?
.
At least you all agree now that the Jews were their first.
Perhaps now we could discuss how to get to a two state solution as G.W. Bush became the first US President to call for.

skoochie, lots of name calling, insults, accusations and anger yet no dispute of the facts.

But they digress,
So let me ask my liberal friends in here this question;
Do you believe that Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel and that it must remain un-divided?
 Tootiefrutie1
Joined: 12/8/2015
Msg: 344
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/11/2017 5:53:20 PM
As the daughter of Muslim parents, I find the following statement to be incredibly offensive:

"At least you all agree now that the Jews were their first."

Some people have no sense of civility!
 toocash
Joined: 9/5/2017
Msg: 345
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/11/2017 6:20:48 PM
Isn't Judaism older than the Muslim religion? You find facts offensive?

 Doubleknotspy7
Joined: 8/10/2016
Msg: 346
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/11/2017 6:40:01 PM
Get over it, you can't argue history.
The Jews were on the land first and always had a presence there.
So if you plan on over throwing Israel you better toughen up.

And why would you be offended Jews first came to the land several centuries BC.
Islam did not begin until 6th century AD.
So the statement as it relates to Muslims is factual.

Facts are facts.
Any civilizations that was there at the time the Jews first appeared are long gone.
Do you believe in a two state solution?
How about a 3 state solution?
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 347
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/11/2017 11:11:40 PM
while "to the victors go the spoils" alone justifies and explains what land constitutes Israel, all that "I was here first" becomes irrelevant talk.

and it is hardly proveable.
 LLove2LaughToo
Joined: 10/25/2017
Msg: 348
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/18/2017 5:02:21 PM
Just watched a hilarious clip of an interview of Jared Kushner by Israeli billionaire Haim Saban two days ago. Saban practically called Trump's team a bunch of idiots.
Happy Holidays!!!



https://youtu.be/aFOxSt02xyM
 LLove2LaughToo
Joined: 10/25/2017
Msg: 349
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/21/2017 9:07:28 PM

UN Rebukes Trump’s Jerusalem Move In Overwhelming Vote

UNITED NATIONS, Dec 21 (Reuters) - More than 100 countries defied President Donald Trump on Thursday and voted in favor of a United Nations General Assembly resolution calling for the United States to drop its recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

Trump had threatened to cut off financial aid to countries that voted in favor. A total of 128 countries backed the resolution, nine voted against and 35 abstained.

Trump’s threat appeared to have some impact, with more countries abstaining and rejecting the resolution than usually associated with Palestinian-related resolutions.

Nevertheless, Washington found itself isolated on the world stage as many of its Western and Arab allies voted for the measure.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/un-vote-jerusalem-trump_us_5a3beeade4b025f99e158445?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 350
Mike Pence and Trump on Israel
Posted: 12/22/2017 5:55:51 AM
Even conservative columnist for the WAPO, Jennifer Rubin (who is Jewish), made the statement that it was a "bad idea" for the US to declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel at this point in time; as it is a "pointless" point...and will only serve to undermine the historically good relations that Israel has with its hostile neighbors, and destabilize the current peace...because many of these radical elements (hamas, etc) will no longer be seen as pariahs
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