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 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 5001
What good things has Trump accomplished?Page 201 of 216    (176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 200, 201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216)
good idea--with the internet, you can avoid places you think benefit from trade treaties (mall wart, etc) and just shop direct, via that company's website. All the America Firsters who worry about boycott campaigns on Ingraham et al, can get behind this campaign. as usual, i'll do my part to educate you folks:

http://madeinusaforever.com/

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/index.php

and ignore Faux News, they're part of the Swamp apparently:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/11/02/why-buy-american-is-dumb-idea.html
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 5002
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/12/2018 1:10:50 PM
L2l and Irish both gone again, along with Flick and Mr. Clean? Clean I get, and Ben I get, but who had issues with Irish and l2l? Blondee?
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 5003
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/12/2018 4:00:52 PM
don't get it either, they both get picked on a lot (ie, deleted). I guess their facts affect someone's feelings, to paraphrase a post title.

meanwhile:

"President Trump told aides to look again at re-entering negotiations on the Trans-Pacific Partnership — a massive Asia-heavy trade deal that Trump repeatedly denounced on the 2016 campaign trail and had killed just last year, Republican lawmakers said Thursday. GOP senators and governors from the Midwest, who met with Trump to argue that a looming trade war with China would hurt U.S. agriculture, said they told the president that partnering with other Asian countries would put pressure on the Chinese to end unfair trade practices."
"Trump told his guest he would take steps to help farmers, including new ethanol support.
Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., chairman of the Senate Agriculture Committee, said the group told Trump they would "prefer trade as opposed to aid," and urged him to take another look at the Trans-Pacific Partnership."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/donald-trump-asks-staff-to-look-at-new-talks-on-trade-deal-he-killed-last-year/ar-AAvOp6M?ocid=spartandhp
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 5004
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/12/2018 4:10:25 PM
With so many now gone, who is left to argue with? To somebody like me that's a big deal. Israel has been argued to death, we are all tired about that, so even if Mungo or Jovan or Cotter started again, not sure I would bother; Hopeless is gone for good...hopefully--ahole; Funchesf is Gone...still laughing about that;

The Blonde Bimbo has it in for KJ and the bimbo constantly watches from the sidelines for her return to make sure she is gone so I'm pretty sure KJ won't bother coming back...why would she, Ben Artflick is gone... so no more outrageous misstatements of fact to make fun of; I don't really read KKK's postings...not interested in what he has to say; The white supremacist Mr. Clean is gone...again, and truth is he was rapidly getting boring in just one day anyway; Not sure why the Bimbo or whoever has it in for Irish or L2L, but I am guessing they may be questioning whether to come back.

On the political Trump front, as far as I have noticed, the only regular trumpster member still standing is John (he is still here right?); you have SS and N2 but they are infrequent posters. Double was pretty good but he gave up. Frank...what can you say... unending condescension. And then the ever wise Hawk who still pops in every few days to post is still always a good, insightful Read. Dee was always an objectively cruel person but still an enjoyable read, just to see how the other half actually thought. As for myself, I have tired of Trump anyway, I can barely stand to watch CNN anymore...nonstop Trump...just like I hear Fox is nonstop Hillary.

Of course the anti-trumpsters are still here, mustang, Cham, etc... but who are they going to argue with?

I don't know what is going on at the dating side of the board.... but I tired of that long ago and far as I remember, even that was dying a slow death over what it used to be before the moderators gave the keys to the animals. I do note that sal something(I forget his name but he was here forever.... and then turned out to be a transvestite, oiled legs and everything in his last photo? disgusting... Wow, the poor women who tried to date him.) is gone too. thank god.

Perhaps that was always the master plan ...rather than just abruptly terminate the board, let it die on its own.... undoubtedly Admin had to know that given human nature, you would have deceitful people working from the shadows using their unlimited number of profiles (I should know about unlimited profiles) to report and terminate.

Truth is I always like the philosophy, science threads the most... but most of the players there are also long gone.

So... I will probably stick around for a little bit..to slowly withdraw...or maybe go cold turkey?

We'll see.

But I got to say Blondee and whoever else is responsible... what despicable people. For the few I helped rid the board of, Motown, Valkano, Blondee recently and Funchesf .. . . . after his insufferable offensive babbling, I have always taken full credit. I am not responsible for anybody else, and I was never a dipsh^t working from the shadows, never accepting responsibility for the havoc caused on the board. At least I was always upfront.

Just my musings for the day.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 5005
view profile
History
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/14/2018 9:58:30 AM
ghostata wrote:
On the political Trump front, as far as I have noticed, the only regular trumpster member still standing is John (he is still here right?); you have SS and N2 but they are infrequent posters.
To set the record straight...I consider myself a lefty. And overall, not a Trump supporter. But I refuse to be a Dem cheerleader. And I don't waste my time arguing conventional GOP/Dem politics, as both parties are the problem. Especially the tit for tat daily stuff, who cares. Who cares bout Mueller/Trump, cuz then we'll have religious nut Pence, who's a bit more conventional, which to me, is worse. And I don't give a rat's patootie about Russia, either, or their alleged culpability in getting Trump elected. We've played the same tricks in other countries for decades. I actually get a laugh that someone allegedly had the temerity to do it to us? Oh, the outrage!!!! LOL.....Karma bites!!!!

Our conventional political divide, in my view is designed to split the public 50/50 on generally social/cultural issues while the top 1% gets their way from both parties (generally economic) and thus continues to loot our economy for their own purposes. I leaned Democratic in the past, because Dems, in the past, were more populist. But that isn't the case any more. Just witness the Dems right here on this board, with their "Just get yourself educated, and get another job!" replies, when I try to debate our bad trade or immigration policy here. My unconditional support of Dems is now at an end. But I could never vote mainstream GOP, either, so I'm going 3rd party, or not voting, and let the chips fall where they may. Probably the sentiment many Trump voters had. Many Trump voters just wanted a chance to fling a turd into the punchbowl of conventional Washington politics. Not that they really liked Trump. It's sad to see Dems are energized ...not because Dems are so good, but because the GOP is so bad. That's a recipe for a spiral down the toilet bowl.

I think Dems got what they deserved in Trump, in my view. Many left leaning voters are tired of Dems continuing to shove social issues/ID/equality/victimization politics front and center. ...BUT....some of this is well overdue, to be sure. But my problem is that seems to be all they are these days. In other words, they're hiding behind pushing all the identity politics/social issues stuff, so they can continue to collect corporate and billionaire money, and thus vote with the 1%'s favored policies, which sells the middle and lower classes down the river.

And of course who can forgive Dems for trying to shove a haughty mainstream status quo candidate down our throats in a year of voter angst. Who btw, didn't learn her lesson how not to come across as elite and yes, haughty...ie. her recent statements during a speech in India. Democrats are why we have Trump. So while I think our Chief Executive Orifice is repugnant...I refuse to be tribal about it, and will support Trump on things that I generally support otherwise. Like trade, and a few other things.

What folks who argue along the conventional GOP/Dem divide don't realize, or want to ignore, is both parties are the puppets of the 1%, big capital, and both parties' marching orders are to figure out how to camoflage economic policies designed to maximize the enrichment of those same 1%, as "good for us all." It ain't, for the middle and lower class. I will give Trump voters credit for recognizing that, ...and while Trump's probably too stupid, and too enmeshed with the 1%, to really follow a truly populist path (i.e. those ruinous tax cuts)...his election did send a message to the establishment pols who are responsible for bad policies that have resulted in the middle class's decline. So in a twisted way, I consider that orange turd floating in that punch bowl, a good thing, if we have to have a GOP Prez.

But just because I support some of Trump's policies, and do understand the dynamics that led us to Trump, and have a dim view of mainstream Democrats.....doesn't mean that I'm a full throated Trump supporter. I did not vote for him. If I had my druthers, Bernie Sanders would be in the White House. Too bad Dems deemed him "unelectable." Well, so was Hillary.

Sorry for the diatribe....didn't have my prune juice this morning, ugh!!!
 kotata
Joined: 4/9/2018
Msg: 5006
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/14/2018 11:14:19 AM
^^^^I agree with most of this....the bottom line is the government, left and right, failed the people. In the end, Obama sucked too. What did he really do for healthcare except help make it prohibitively expensive for the middle class not being subsidized by the government or employers. He filed up in the middle East. Trump is really, really bad but in a way you are right, the dems put up the very worst candidate to challenge him. I think the county is heading toward economic Armageddon. As goes the country so goes the world. Trump is helping to speed us there.

Yep mustang...trump is finally getting TPp was necessary to help constrain China.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 5007
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/14/2018 11:42:40 AM
It's a mix. Yes, the government fails the people, but the people fail themselves because, as a whole, they are politically and economically uneducated, both regionally and globally, and vote based on emotion rather than rational thought. Its understandable to want what is best for yourself in your own little corner of the world, however, that myopic thinking ultimately effects your own little corner of the world when you lack knowledge.
 from site to sight
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 5008
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/14/2018 12:16:06 PM

Obama sucked too. What did he really do for healthcare except help make it prohibitively expensive for the middle class not being subsidized by the government or employers. He filed up in the middle East.


But Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize, even though he inherited Bush's war and kept the war going during his entire eight year presidency, and couldn't get the U.S. torture camp-Guantanamo Bay-shut down. That means Trump should be in line for getting a Nobel Peace Prize as well, even though he ordered the bombing of Syria. I guess killing people in the middle eastern countries for years on end, with no end in sight, doesn't count as a bad thing to the Nobel selection committee.
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 5009
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/14/2018 1:39:40 PM
America has meddled in the elections of other governments, since the 1950's when it feared Communists would win democratic elections. But for Dems arguing that the best thing the populists can do, is realize we're in another "car replaces the horse" historical movement...I love when people tell me to my face that they can't get educated and learn a new job in the tech sector. I love it b/c I ask them if they have any photos of their grandchildren, and can you guess what they do?

That's right--they whip out a cellphone and pull up those photos like....gasp, they learned a new skill and how to operate a new tool! And they aren't even doing it to put food on the table! I grab their hand and in mock shock I exclaim"

"HOW CAN YOU KNOW HOW TO DO THAT? You just said you can't learn anything new in order to keep a roof over your head! Its a Miracle!"

Funny how they try to deny it having any connection to the fact that, of course, they're smart enough to learn a new job that pays. I'm reading Robert Reich from 1984, so far he's mentioning that Japan and Europe went from feudalism to industrial age, so the idea of the feudal lord and the factory boss being in charge of your general welfare while you make them rich, stuck around. In America, our Puritan values said, work hard for yourself. By the 1920's, we went from engineers creating a business to professional management (Who didn't need to know your job) telling you what to do based on productivity. We gave the world the idea of professional managers who work for the shareholders. They decide what is the quota, and you match it or you failed.

This month's Imprimis points out, in China the Communist government tells the factories what the quota is, and contributes whatever it has to, in order to reach that quota. Of course, we don't want government in corporations. They try to make the fake argument that to build an America fighter plane takes Chinese microchips. Bullshit! We only do that to save money and make profit, hell, we mastered the microchip and named a valley in California after it. But that's the point...American made costs too much for Americans to pay. Hell, in food, the only people paying more for local fruits and vegs are hippy locavores :) As for consumer goods, WalMart will drive the prices so low they'll wipe a supplier out of business and honestly not care--they'll go to the next one and demand the same bulk discount, and as the 1000lb gorilla in the marketplace, they'll get it.

so you can demand your old job as much as you want, but market forces are driving you out so you can buy something at Walmart. That's just plain old reality. You want to mine coal? well, natural gas prices are cheaper, and new tech makes machinery that can do you old job. Cry all you want, that's reality. The real populist message is, "that's reality, save yourself or live in a cardboard box." Horse care used to employ people until cars were made cheap. Anyone could farm, and then factories came to cities and paid more.

Chump finally realized what TPP was actually all about--deal with the other Pacific Rim countries, lock out China. But he went on some populist bullshit message, and now he's finding out that the old countries he stabbed in the back are making deals...with China. And why not? They sure can't trust Chump to do tomorrow what he promised today, can they? China learned from us to offer a package deal. Go into a country, build their infrastructure so that when you deal with the companies, their product can reach market. and loan them what they need to pay for it all. We used to do that in Africa--we'll mine your minerals, build hydroelectric to do it with, build highways and ports to ship it out, and give you loans. Now we just play games.

Obamacare was supposed to be stopgap until something better came along. Getting rid of private insurance for single payer, puts a lot of people out of work. But Republican governors didn't help their people by refusing to accept subsidies, which drove up prices in their districts. As for the Mideast, Chump has gone from isolationist, to let Russia fill the vacuum, to drawing an Obama line in the sand:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/analysis-mission-accomplished-but-what-is-the-mission-in-syria/ar-AAvSrKj?ocid=spartandhp

we've officially run into "mission creep".

""If he had been a piece of crap from the beginning, it wouldn't be so bad," Infowars Alex Jones said of Trump. "We've made so many sacrifices and now he's crapping all over us. It makes me sick."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-supporters-slam-decision-to-launch-strikes-against-syria/ar-AAvSjii?ocid=spartandhp

HRC was a terrible candidate, and its ironic she forgot what her husband was told...its the economy, stupid. Too much pursuit of social issues, too much letting the "Bubba vote" go, thinking it was unavailable. And it was--Bernie Sanders had the populism, if you could only swallow the socialism.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 5010
view profile
History
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/14/2018 2:09:26 PM
chameleonf wrote:
It's a mix. Yes, the government fails the people, but the people fail themselves because, as a whole, they are politically and economically uneducated, both regionally and globally, and vote based on emotion rather than rational thought. Its understandable to want what is best for yourself in your own little corner of the world, however, that myopic thinking ultimately effects your own little corner of the world when you lack knowledge.
I pretty much agree, although the rub is on the definitions of "educated" and "little corner." I mean, mean when either side says the other side isn't educated, what they usually mean is "educated" in their opinions and worldview. Before I swore off following politics day to day, I consumed a lot of left wing and right wing radio and books, and both sides claim the opposite side is "uneducated." So even what "educated" is...is a subject of disagreement.

And I don't know what you consider "little corner," but my feelings that economic policies affecting the entire lower and lower middle classes in the U.S. aren't that little of a corner. But knowing you're Canadian, maybe you're considering "little corner" to be U.S. centric thinking?

One can't deny that the U.S. is the center of the global economy and that most other countries hang onto our coattails. But I don't think there's anything wrong for a periodic readjustment, where we look inward to get our financial house in order again and get our middle class restored again. I am tired of yuge trade deficits. But that's just me.

And of course, I've been the recipient of many lectures (some here) about the inevitability of progress and globalization, and I agree with that, and have no problem with it. What I do have a problem with...is accelerating that process through unfair global trade pacts and unfettered immigration....just so global capital (top 1%, billionaires, etc.) can benefit the most. It's no wonder inequality is huge and increasing. Now... those that don't know, or understand that fact......THAT'S what I call "uneducated!" LOL.....


Cheap laborers (both undocumented unskilled and skilled H1-B guest workers) and the ability to offshore production and reimport goods into the United States have boosted earnings to record highs. Yet in a mirror-image decline, the share of income going to Middle Americans has collapsed.


http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2016/03/01/Behind-Rise-Trump-It-s-Economy-Stupid
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 5011
view profile
History
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/14/2018 3:32:03 PM
MachI wrote:
so you can demand your old job as much as you want, but market forces are driving you out so you can buy something at Walmart. That's just plain old reality.
Sure, it's the "plain old" reality of a 25% vs a 2.5% tariff.


You want to mine coal? well, natural gas prices are cheaper, and new tech makes machinery that can do you old job. Cry all you want, that's reality.
Coal is a bit different because the easy stuff is gone, and newer stuff is much more expensive to get at. That IS a reality. It's not affected by agreements by puppet politicians, dangling from the strings of hedge fund billionaires.


The real populist message is, "that's reality, save yourself or live in a cardboard box."
Um...nice quote..from "Atlas Shrugged," perhaps?


Horse care used to employ people until cars were made cheap. Anyone could farm, and then factories came to cities and paid more.
Each change produced better jobs. Jobs that stayed in the U.S. Ain't the same comparison, when the good working class jobs are sent offshore.


Chump finally realized what TPP was actually all about--deal with the other Pacific Rim countries, lock out China. But he went on some populist bullshit message, and now he's finding out that the old countries he stabbed in the back are making deals...with China.
Maybe take our jobs from China and just give them to other countries, maybe? Or still make stuff in China to sell to these other countries. Either way, does it really raise prospects for American workers? I doubt it.


They sure can't trust Chump to do tomorrow what he promised today, can they? China learned from us to offer a package deal. Go into a country, build their infrastructure so that when you deal with the companies, their product can reach market. and loan them what they need to pay for it all. We used to do that in Africa--we'll mine your minerals, build hydroelectric to do it with, build highways and ports to ship it out, and give you loans. Now we just play games.
Well, in empowering China in the first place, creating that monster, we only have ourselves to blame.


Obamacare was supposed to be stopgap until something better came along. Getting rid of private insurance for single payer, puts a lot of people out of work.
So you're defending our current, expensive healthcare model, to preserve the jobs? Then why not defend factories in the U.S. and their more expensive products, for the same reason?


But Republican governors didn't help their people by refusing to accept subsidies, which drove up prices in their districts.
When all else fails...no wait...BEFORE all else fails, blame Republicans. LOL.......A factor for sure, but allowing Big Insurance and Big Pharma in the drivers's seat is the main reason Obamacare is expensive.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 5012
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/14/2018 3:53:05 PM
My reference to being uneducated politically and economically has to do with the ability, or willingness, to understand cause and effect, no matter what "side" you think you associate with. Their own little corner of the world is in Anywhere America.

With respect to being uneducated economically and politically, when individuals can't even get a handle on their own credit card debt, mortgage debt, spend beyond their means for the sake of instant gratification, refuse to re-educate themselves in order to keep up with changing job markets/technology etc., and then blame a large portion of their woes on the "elite", how on earth can they be deemed economically educated enough to make informed decisions on a larger scale politically? Apparently, for many, the answer is to put someone into power who is, on a larger scale, just as politically and economically uneducated and "hope" for the best. Blindly hoping for something to stick only applies when you're cooking spaghetti.

The States has been the centre of the global economy for years but that's changing and they may well find that China takes their place. The U.S. share of international transactions has tripled over the past 50 years and it has become more dependent on external economic developments and yet want to blame "unfair trade practices". This equates to the same example of individuals in their own little corner of the world making poor economic decisions for what amounts to instant gratification and then blaming everyone else.

Unfettered legal immigration isn't good for any nation. Illegal immigration is another matter. Reasoned and well-planned immigration is good and should depend on a balance of immigrants based on your nation's needs, no matter where those immigrants come from. For instance, you don't accept only skilled professionals and close your borders to unskilled labour when you have a glut of one and a dearth of the other, or vice versa.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 5013
view profile
History
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/15/2018 5:32:38 AM
GTO
"America has meddled in the elections of other governments, since the 1950's when it feared Communists would win democratic elections. But for Dems arguing that the best thing the populists can do, is realize we're in another "car replaces the horse" historical movement..."

Spot on there mate. Obama and clinton (of the hillary type) both involved themselves in votes over here regarding the Scottish indy referendum and then brexit...........

"I love when people tell me to my face that they can't get educated and learn a new job in the tech sector. I love it b/c I ask them if they have any photos of their grandchildren, and can you guess what they do?"

Getting a job in IT is the mantra over here if you are unemployed. Apparently if you have a mobile phone you can get an IT job. Sounds good but the reality is somewhat different...........

"That's right--they whip out a cellphone and pull up those photos like....gasp, they learned a new skill and how to operate a new tool!

But how many IT jobs are there for citizens who can use a mobile phone?...........

"HOW CAN YOU KNOW HOW TO DO THAT? You just said you can't learn anything new in order to keep a roof over your head! Its a Miracle!"

But learning a new skill is the easy part. Finding someone who will employ you is the difficult part............

"I'm reading Robert Reich from 1984, so far he's mentioning that Japan and Europe went from feudalism to industrial age, so the idea of the feudal lord and the factory boss being in charge of your general welfare while you make them rich, stuck"

The feudal system was still used here until 2004..........

"The feudal system of land tenure was brought to an end on 28 November 2004 when The Abolition of Feudal Tenure etc. ... On that date, the Act replaced the feudal system with a system of outright ownership of land. All superiority interests in land were extinguished.7 Dec 2015"

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Justice/law/17975/Abolition

"so you can demand your old job as much as you want, but market forces are driving you out so you can buy something at Walmart. That's just plain old reality."

So what do you think is the solution to that then?..............

"You want to mine coal? well, natural gas prices are cheaper, and new tech makes machinery that can do you old job. Cry all you want, that's reality."

So industry will embrace new technology and yes that is a fact. But what of the citizens who lose their jobs due to the new technology? What are they being offered as a compensation? If say 3,000 citizens lose their job have they now to go into IT? Are there 3,000 IT jobs to employ them? If not then what do you think the answer is?.............

"Chump finally realized what TPP was actually all about--deal with the other Pacific Rim countries, lock out China. But he went on some populist bullshit message, and now he's finding out that the old countries he stabbed in the back are making deals...with China. And why not?"

And citizens will soon find out just how bad some of the trade deals are. Canadian tax payers have found out to their cost just what the nafta deal meant..........

"NAFTA's Chapter 11 Makes Canada Most-Sued Country Under Free Trade Tribunals
Even when countries win the legal costs of fighting an investor claim, it can cost millions of dollars. Sinclair estimates Canada has spent $65 million defending such claims over the past two decades.

About 63 per cent of the claims against Canada involved challenges to environmental protection or resource management programs that allegedly interfere with the profits of foreign investors."

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/01/14/canada-sued-investor-state-dispute-ccpa_n_6471460.html

"They sure can't trust Chump to do tomorrow what he promised today, can they?"

I was glad the donald became president the donald. Although I'm a tad disappointed with some of his actions. But some of those who voted for president the donald will feel let down. But clinton never even tried to appeal to trumps voters............

"China learned from us to offer a package deal. Go into a country, build their infrastructure so that when you deal with the companies, their product can reach market. and loan them what they need to pay for it all. We used to do that in Africa--we'll mine your minerals, build hydroelectric to do it with, build highways and ports to ship it out, and give you loans. Now we just play games."

So nations exploit other nations and fvck the citizens? But surely those exploited citizens have mobile phones? They can get a job in IT............


"Obamacare was supposed to be stopgap until something better came along. Getting rid of private insurance for single payer, puts a lot of people out of work. But Republican governors didn't help their people by refusing to accept subsidies, which drove up prices in their districts. As for the Mideast, Chump has gone from isolationist, to let Russia fill the vacuum, to drawing an Obama line in the sand:"

I'm no sure exactly how your health service works in shermanland. We have our NHS which could be fantastic if it was run properly...........

"we've officially run into "mission creep".
""If he had been a piece of crap from the beginning, it wouldn't be so bad," Infowars Alex Jones said of Trump. "We've made so many sacrifices and now he's crapping all over us. It makes me sick."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-supporters-slam-decision-to-launch-strikes-against-syria/ar-AAvSjii?ocid=spartandhp"

That is one of the disappointments i feel regarding president the donald. Syria is a civil war. The russians are there legally as far as I'm aware because they were invited in by the government. I'm pissed off that we were involved in bombing syria as well..........

"HRC was a terrible candidate, and its ironic she forgot what her husband was told...its the economy, stupid. Too much pursuit of social issues, too much letting the "Bubba vote" go, thinking it was unavailable. And it was-"

Can i ask why you feel the need to denigrate citizens who voted for trump? There was the choice of trump or clinton. Maybe trump offered industrial wastelands a wee bit hope? Even if the citizens knew the promises would not be kept they voted as a big fvck off to the washington crowd............

"Bernie Sanders had the populism, if you could only swallow the socialism."

But bernie needed to appeal to all voters. Do you think wall street would sit back and allow sanders to implement his policies?

If you have the time or inclination could you go to the uk forum, the brexit thread, page 29, posts 719 720 721.

The will is there to put citizens welfare first. All you need are politicians with a bit fight about them.
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 5014
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/15/2018 9:34:33 AM
"Sure, it's the "plain old" reality of a 25% vs a 2.5% tariff."

>>>Actually, the shift began before that. the northern part of the US was industrial since the end of the Civil War, but factories moved down the Carolinas etc to find cheaper labor costs, and then you remember during the Reagan era it was Japan, not China, who was going to take us over. Not counting jobs going to Mexico. A few years ago, Vietnam was the cheap labor capital and China moved up the scale to more skilled labor products. Change, like brown matter, happens--its been going on for decades now, there isn't an acceleration, we've been watching it happen since the 1970's. About time to do something. And as someone pointed out:

"Each change produced better jobs."

>>what's anti-populist about telling people to get better jobs? :)

"Jobs that stayed in the U.S."

>>>they did b/c there wasn't competition until the late 1970's. America could compete with itself (ie, how many car companies were American). There was no offshore to send the jobs to, WW2 took out the infrastructure, etc. That's changed. Coal is like oil, yes, the easy stuff is gone, but fracking tech has helped oil. And the cost of natural gas they pull up is blowing coal out of the water--enough that power plants are switching to it. Its as simple as blue collar jobs--if it can be done cheaper with robots or cheaper labor, politicians can do nothing to stop that. Until companies decide to let politicians run business, not shareholders.

Eastman Kodak lost camera business to cellphones that take pictures. General Electric is giving up lightbulbs to get into healthcare and modernizing production lines.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/09/investing/ge-selling-lighting-business/index.html

The affordable insurance question is interesting--to achieve it, you have to kill the profit margins of Big Insurance and Big Pharma. What does that do to their jobs? So if you want these people to keep their old jobs, you have to keep shelling out high insurance costs. and people apparently don't like doing that to keep these people in jobs.

People do argue that their side is more educated.

http://politicsthatwork.com/blog/blue-states-outperforming-red-states.php

but hey, how do we define "educated", right? hopefully not by "what feels right".

"Finding someone who will employ you is the difficult part............"

>>>it is, and those who move first, get the best pick. They were the pioneers, a decade ago. They saw what was going on in the 1970's and moved forward in the 1980's and 1990's. But now the internet offers more opportunities. And i'm not saying everyone's going to board this train, just like in any other time in history when monumental change occurred. The Industrial Revolution offered new tech almost every 15 months, and that tech created new opportunities (electricity, cars, airplanes, etc)

"So industry will embrace new technology and yes that is a fact. But what of the citizens who lose their jobs due to the new technology? What are they being offered as a compensation?"

>>>over here, we were retraining them, until Chump cut the funding. So we may not get to see what could have really been accomplished. But historically, America did damn good swapping from horses to cars, seemed like we really helped the world in two wars with what we had learned to do. NAFTA has hurt jobs over here, and yet...created others to fill its demand. that's why economics are "the dismal sceience", there's winners and losers in the zero sum game. i'm not saying that's nice, i'm saying those who accept it move ahead, and those who try to ignore it...don't always end up successfully doing so.

"So nations exploit other nations and fvck the citizens?"

>>>Great Britain did it when the sun didn't set on its empire, and America did it in the Cold War. How long do such things go on for, historically?

"Can i ask why you feel the need to denigrate citizens who voted for trump? There was the choice of trump or clinton."

>>>the "Bubba vote" term comes from a Republican:

""The Bubba vote is there, and it's very real, and it is everywhere," former House Majority Leader Dick Armey recently said. "There's an awful lot of people in America, bless their heart, who simply are not emotionally prepared to vote for a black man."
Sad, but true. I hate to nickname the problem "Bubba." I used to have a beloved Alabama uncle named Bubba. I loved "Unca Bubba." He taught me how to milk a cow when I was seven years old. I'll be eternally grateful. "Bubba" began as country slang for "brother." I don't know how it became a label for working-class white folks, but I'm sure my late Unca Bubba would want Dick Army and the rest of y'all to know that there are a lot of black Bubbas, too."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/obama_vsbubba_vote.html

its not a common term, more one used by politicians who, as usual think they know what's going on :) But before there was Trump, Clinton, or the Green Party or the Independent Party, there were 18 other Republicans to vote for.

"Maybe trump offered industrial wastelands a wee bit hope?"

>>>For absolute certain, he did. I wouldn't trust a rich man to be disconnected from the rich people out to screw the poor, but I get the whole middle finger to the Powers That Be. But what that has resulted in, is a White House so chaotic, it can't be trusted on foreign or domestic policy. Did the Dems warn that was going to happen? yes, they did, but that gets us back to which side feels more educated, the ivory tower or the simple folk who believe they have common sense and aren't distracted with wealth.

"But bernie needed to appeal to all voters. Do you think wall street would sit back and allow sanders to implement his policies?"

>>>isn't that why people voted for Trump, thinking he would? Bernie got shafted by his own party, trying to fulfill its promise to HRC to not run against Obama and get the nomination the next time. And of course, she's HRC, she's totally part of the Dem party, while Bernie was an independent who took on the party affiliation. He was the outsider, and generally speaking, got the shaft for it.

There is a desire to put people first, but in America...there's a lot of people. Trump's tariff on aluminum, for example, will help Alcoa workers, but it raises the price for every other company that makes things out of aluminum and sells them to American consumers. so, we help a few, and hurt many more. Meanwhile, China hits our farmers right before planting season, many who voted for Trump. Trump has admitted such, and as I posted, promises to help them. but how? with government subsidies? that won't fly either.


 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 5015
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History
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/15/2018 10:56:02 AM
GTO
"Finding someone who will employ you is the difficult part............"

>>>it is, and those who move first, get the best pick. They were the pioneers, a decade ago. They saw what was going on in the 1970's and moved forward in the 1980's and 1990's."

I'm no sure what it was like years ago in shermanland but over here a lot of youngsters left school and went into jobs where their dads and uncles worked.

University or college was mainly for those who lived in nice middle class areas. That was just a fact. So why were citizens not clued up that mining, steel, ship building, construction etc were not viable? Why did successive governments and unions not tell citizens that they were going to lose their jobs en masse?

Firms over here very seldom take youngsters on as apprentices. Why would a small firm pay a youngster for 4 years training at building school when they can employ cheap imported labour on the minimum wage?

If you were an unskilled worker you can go on 6 week courses to attain a city and guilds or an SVQ. If costs the person nearly a £1,000 to do the course.

Then they have a slip of paper saying they are a tradesman. But they are not. They are 6 weeks coursers.

I'm not sure of the unemployment numbers here but for want of a number lets say 2 million. Are you saying that if those two million get taught other skills there are 2 million jobs waiting?

Because that's just not true is it?

And it all heads back to one thing. Money. Most governments are told by multi nationals what is to happen. The eu gulag has shown in many court cases (look up viking and laval cases) where the european court ruled that companies have the right to make profit before workers have any rights.

Of course there are many in the uk hope that mass unemployment happens after brexit. The eu still wants ttip.

But i shall take your argument on board and the next time i read or hear about mass unemployment and the misery it brings in many third world countries i shall reply "do you have a mobile phone? Then get a job in IT.


"So nations exploit other nations and fvck the citizens?"

>>>Great Britain did it when the sun didn't set on its empire, and America did it in the Cold War. How long do such things go on for, historically?"

They go on until citizens start to push back. To me Viktor Orban in hungary has done brilliant. Paid off the imf much to their anger, made banks pay back money to customers and taxed them on profits, made utility companies cut citizens bills and pay a hefty tax.

It's no much but it is a start.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 5016
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/15/2018 11:53:53 AM

So why were citizens not clued up that mining, steel, ship building, construction etc were not viable? Why did successive governments and unions not tell citizens that they were going to lose their jobs en masse?

I can understand this statement to some degree when something unforeseeable transpires, however, I also see it as a statement of placing blame on governments for one's own apathy when it comes to their personal well-being.

Maybe a better question to ask is why aren't people more self-aware of the businesses they are in, whether it's a trade or a profession that requires college or university. Do they not pay attention to what's happening to their industries over time and prepare for any eventuality? Even those who do go to college complain very often that they can't find jobs in their chosen field. Perhaps it was the wrong chosen field to begin with if they haven't taken the time and energy to track trends. It's no different than determining when is a good/bad time to buy/sell property. Do you buy a house without tracking trends in both the real estate market and lending rates to make an informed decision or just buy/sell and hope for the best and then try to find someone to blame because you didn't practice due diligence?
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 5017
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History
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/15/2018 1:00:36 PM
Cham
"I can understand this statement to some degree when something unforeseeable transpires, however, I also see it as a statement of placing blame on governments for one's own apathy when it comes to their personal well-being."


But elected governments preside over a nations economics. The banking crash in 2008. If economists, governments and the political elites never seen that happening then what chance did citizens?

You cannot put the blame on citizens for what occurred.............


"Maybe a better question to ask is why aren't people more self-aware of the businesses they are in, whether it's a trade or a profession that requires college or university. Do they not pay attention to what's happening to their industries over time and prepare for any eventuality?"

Again i can only talk of my experiences in the building trade. There were masses of big projects going on. Folk had money to spare to get work done. Then came a crash. Global finance and elitist politicians never paid attention to what was about to happen. But THEY never suffered from the consequences of the crash.

So what about the self awareness of those supposed economic experts?...........


"Even those who do go to college complain very often that they can't find jobs in their chosen field. Perhaps it was the wrong chosen field to begin with if they haven't taken the time and energy to track trends."

Yep that happens over here as well. Uni graduates working behind counters is shops. But is a trend not just that? Popular for a while then it becomes obsolete? Unfortunately none of us can see what is ahead. The only certainty is the political elites will not feel the burden put onto citizens..........


"It's no different than determining when is a good/bad time to buy/sell property. Do you buy a house without tracking trends in both the real estate market and lending rates to make an informed decision or just buy/sell and hope for the best and then try to find someone to blame because you didn't practice due diligence?"

Well a good pointer to that would be all those who were caught up in the buy your house frenzy. Did those who bought a house in say 2005 have any kind of inkling that a banking crash was coming up?

Was there any suggestion put forward warning that a banking crash was coming and that it would put their job in jeopardy?

And does due diligence apply to those economic 'experts'?

Some citizens are just not academic. A good few are computer illiterate. You can only do what you are good at.
And is it not the case that IT jobs are being lost at an alarming rate?

So what does the workplace hold for them?
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 5018
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History
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/15/2018 1:07:37 PM
And unfortunately american work practices are now being employed in uk places of work. So the mantra of 'the eu protects workers rights' is just a load of crap.

My working life is nearly over but i do despair what lies in store for my grandbairns in coming years...........

"But the investigation, by an undercover reporter for the Sunday Mirror who spent five weeks there, suggested workers suffer mentally and physically as they try to meet demand.

He said that some of his colleagues were so tired from working 55-hour weeks that they would ‘sleep on their feet’.

Amazon said yesterday: ‘Amazon provides a safe and positive workplace with competitive pay and benefits. We are proud to have created thousands of roles in our UK fulfilment centres. As with most companies, we expect a certain level of performance.

‘Targets are based on previous performance achieved by our workers. Associates are evaluated over a long period of time.’

The retailer made £7.3billion of sales in the UK last year and employs 24,000 people.

The Essex plant has no natural light, so staff cannot see whether it is day or night outside. The undercover reporter worked from 7.30am to 6pm with two half-hour breaks, giving just enough time to race to the canteen for food.

One colleague is said to have collapsed as they worked and was taken to hospital by ambulance. Another was seen by paramedics after suffering a panic attack when she learned compulsory overtime meant she would have to work up to 55 hours a week over Christmas.

One worker told the paper: ‘Everybody suffers here.’ They added that staff reported a variety of stress-related injuries, including pulled hamstrings and ligaments.

Once items are picked they go to a packing area where workers prepare 120 items for shipping every hour – rumoured to be increasing to 200 – or 85 multiple items, according to the investigation.

This board showed some of the staff's grievances at the Essex warehouse, including complaints about the 'disgusting' toilet

Amazon has also defended itself after it was revealed that ambulances were sent to its main Scottish warehouse 43 times last year.

Emergencies included 15 of the most serious Category A classification, with 23 workers taken to nearby hospitals. Call-outs to the depot in Dunfermline involved two staff being treated for falls, a call about ‘traumatic injuries’ and two for ‘industrial accidents’.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5118951/Amazon-staff-complain-conditions-Tilbury.html

Cham and GTO
Just out of interest then what advice would you give me to pass on to my grandbairns for when they leave school?

The auldest is 12 now. So what future trends will be relevant to their education?
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 5019
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/15/2018 1:51:51 PM
Over here, until the 1970's it made perfect sense to go to a factory your father worked at and get a union job that paid middle class income and offered a pension for when you retired. Or learn how to operate a truck, get a union job and work without your boss standing over you (now they track you with GPS) for $1000 per week. Into the 1980's, it became clear that things were going to change. Pratt & Whitney, the airplane engine builder in my home state, started shipping jobs down to Florida b/c it was cheaper. Other big businesses started looking into the world of finance, making more profit there than in the making of products that made them household names (like say, General Electric). Older employees who were paid more for their experience got replaced by younger employees who were cheaper. In 1994 there was a movie based on a novel covering some of these issues, called Disclosure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disclosure_(novel)

I'm sure most people focused on the sex going on in the movie. There was much discussion of the future of labor in America, and yet...many tuned it out. Too much economics to understand, or maybe it was too depressing, or maybe....any other reason people don't pay attention to current events. Current events aren't as sexy as what's happening with Kim Kardashian, I know. But recently, when people are told to get rid of unions, over here they vote to do it, and then complain that no one is fighting for their job.

Can we get everyone a new job? all I can say is, here in America, unemployment was 4.4% under Obama, and with all of Trump's policies, it's changed...3 tenths of a percent and stayed stuck there since October of last year:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate

so it was good under Obama, and with all the changes, its...3 tenths of 1% better. With all the Baby Boomers retiring over here, we've been doing OK. Now, as for the government helping out the voters and yet letting the Bush recession give the world a cold...yeah, its why I don't like Republican economics nor their idea of de-regulating. of course, a part of that recession was, individuals lying on their mortgage forms that they made more income than they did, so that they could buy a house. It happened during the Savings and Loan crisis. Should those individual people said, "as much as I want a house, I can't afford one, and i'm not going to lie, b/c lying doesn't change the reality I don't make enough to afford a house"?

There were economic experts like mad money Cramer selling bullshit. People who didn't study the Stock Market crash of 1929 or 1987 wouldn't have recognized a bubble when they saw it. But there were also plenty of experts warning of problems--they usually get dismissed as, well, liberals. Recently we get called "people who hate Trump" :) Of course, the recent PIGS countries and their faulty government budgets are another form of the experts getting it wrong. Like too many things in life, its good for all of us to individually learn what's going on and how to protect ourselves. "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" works well, but its good to know the reasons why.

what should your grandkids look into for jobs? I don't live there, so all I can say is...it seems like the predictions are jobs involving computers, esp. IT and Communications:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/11430227/Are-these-the-25-best-jobs-in-the-UK.html

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/303334/er84-the-future-of-work-evidence-report.pdf

apparently oil and energy jobs are going to be shed like water off a shaking dog, so maybe avoid that:

http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EconomyEnergyandTourismCommittee/Reports/EETS042016R02.pdf
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 5020
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History
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/17/2018 1:20:33 AM
Yep maybe SOME economists predicted the 2008 crash but there were far more who did not. The imf and the bank of england for example..........

"Why Economists Failed to Predict the Financial Crisis

There is a long list of professions that failed to see the financial crisis brewing. Wall Street bankers and deal-makers top it, but banking regulators are on it as well, along with the Federal Reserve. Politicians and journalists have shared the blame, as have mortgage lenders and even real estate agents."
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/why-economists-failed-to-predict-the-financial-crisis/

It is all very well saying folk were living above their means but folk were getting loans and mortgages thrown at them. Folk thought that having there own place was an asset to leave their bairns. Did you know the banking system was going to collapse?

But as we found out they got shafted. Some lost everything. Businesses collapsed. So i do not lay too much blame at citizens doors.

So whilst folk were losing all that they ever had, the banking system was bailed out by public money. Massive pay offs were made to the arseholes who presided over the scandal.............

"The Independent Commission on Banking has recommended wholesale reforms of Britain's banking system - with the big banks' high street operations to be ring-fenced.

Which raises the question, how much did - the bank bailouts actually cost us? And how much are they still costing us?

Fortunately, the National Audit Office has looked into this - with a report out in July this year. It shows the level of financial support given by the government to the Banks since 2009. The report tries to make an assessment of how much they still owe us now, after repayments, fees and interest.

The headline figure is £456.33bn, down from £612.58bn in March 2010. The peak was a mighty £1.162 trillion.

The total outstanding support is 31% of March's GDP."
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/nov/12/bank-bailouts-uk-credit-crunch

As you can guess citizens are a wee bit pissed off by that.

In Scotland, Wales and northern england the industries that had employed millions over the years were closed down. And as the folk had no work then local businesses also lost out.

We do not have the benefit of a move to florida. It would make no difference anyway as we have the minimum wage (slightly higher in london) and the living wage..........

"UK unemployment fell by 3,000 to 1.44 million in the three months to November, official figures show."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42802526

So we still have roughly 1.4 million unemployed. And that massaged figure does not take into account those in work who do not get paid enough to live on. Their wages made up by state aid.

Every job then had thousands applying...........

"More than 1,700 people applied for eight jobs at a new coffee shop, in an indication of how tough the jobs market remains."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/more-than-1700-people-apply-for-just-eight-jobs-at-costa-coffee-shop-8501329.html?origin=internalSearch

Now we come to the migration question. Shermanland is huge compared to the uk. I am not against migration to the uk. But it should be folk with skills that the uk needs. We do not need cleaners, labourers, waiters etc.........

"The migrants that arrived in 2016 joined an estimated 5.567 million citizens of other countries already living in the UK in 2015.

According to the ONS 2015 figures, nine in every 100 people living in the UK were non-British.

Of these, the number of EU citizens is estimated at 3.2 million, or five in every 100, and the number of non-EU citizens at 2.4 million, or four in every 100."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40015269


And that is partly how brexit came about. Two former chancellors of the exchequer, 6 former treasury officials from shermanland, obama, hillary and the governor of the bank of england all said the economy would collapse if we voted brexit.

Yes all those 'economic experts' who failed to predict the banking crisis, the 6 treasury officials who were there when shermanland racked up trillions of dollars in debt wanted us to vote for the same old same old.......

"what should your grandkids look into for jobs? I don't live there, so all I can say is...it seems like the predictions are jobs involving computers, esp. IT and Communications:"

"Britain's graduates
Even people with degrees from the best universities in Britain are struggling to find work - as the prospects for graduates get worse."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/degrees-no-jobs-how-things-10776586

"apparently oil and energy jobs are going to be shed like water off a shaking dog, so maybe avoid that:"

The oil industry has been in free fall for years. Hence Scotland's revenue sources being so bad. But thanks for at least trying to give me an answer.

Technology and IT may well be the future. But how many IT jobs can be created before the market gets knackered?

Maybe a job in politics? You don't have to believe in anything. Just nod your head, toe the party line and get that there snout buried deep into the trough.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 5021
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History
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/17/2018 2:50:58 AM
Vlad, over the decades, it's been said you'll always have work if you have a trade. There's talk here about how people go to college, assume a big debt, then pursue jobs that don't pay enough, and that more people should consider jobs in the trades. I dated a plumber, electrician and a carpenter, and they had good jobs and made good money with all the perks. More was to be made if you worked side jobs, jobs done privately after work. Of course with a trade, you're able to work for yourself if you wanted to.

We seem to always have a shortage of nurses.

How much you get paid may go by where you live, like the southern east coast states (Florida, Tennessee, North and South Carolina) where it costs less to live, you may also make less money there for the same job you would do in another state.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 5022
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History
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/17/2018 3:44:55 AM
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/decades-pushing-bachelors-degrees-u-s-needs-tradespeople
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 5023
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/17/2018 4:49:55 AM
Here in America, the first President Bush had a banking crisis. There are small banks called Savings and Loan, basically for farmers to have bank accounts and small loans (apparently like the UK's building society), and were regulated to not get into big, risky loans. Those regulations were considered "anti business" by the Republicans and shed, with the eventual result the banks went out of business, after getting politicians (like Bush's son Neil Bush) to get involved in the chaos and look the other way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis

so at the risk of sounding like a Monday morning quarterback (someone who calls the play the day after everyone saw what the losing play looked like), I paid attention and learned not to accept things being thrown at me. I understand the temptation, and I sure wasn't making a lot of money at that time, but I made sure to live within my own means. I knew a primary house is never an investment, as "Experts" claim--an investment is something you sell as soon as the market price goes up, in order to make a profit, and where do you live then? Its collateral one uses to borrow more money (usually to fix the house, ironically), and its always better to save up money than to borrow. People don't sell their primary house when the market is high, but when they need to sell the house. Its secondary houses that make one money in real estate.

Its like buying a car to drive to work--at its end, it goes to the junkyard. A few people buy a house that seems to rise in value (due to inflation) but for the working class, they buy what they can afford and the neighborhood gets gentrified if they're lucky. But a primary house is like that primary car, you get your worth out of it while you use it. "Experts" will tell you otherwise, b/c those people get paid to get you to buy, buy, buy some more. I don't trust people with "a dog in the fight" to tell me who to bet on. But I realize, not everyone gets educated on economics. The public schools do the best they can, but...some students just aren't interested to know. Why should they--at that age, ma and pa pay for everything.

the politicians who thought it was best to let markets be free (And forgot what happened in 1929, the Great Depression, which led to a generation of Americans trusting the government to handle things, rather than business), are the ones who think they should throw more money at their problems and bail out the banks. Partly due, of course, to the banks being part of that swamp to drain. I've said before, the best recent bailout was to give homeowners about to lose their house, the money to pay back the banks. They would have kept their houses, kept prices stable, kept paying local taxes, and the banks would have gotten their money back. And its all why I rail against Trump so much when he removes regulations.

The irony about immigration is that...it goes both ways. People in my home state used to worry about Puerto Ricans moving in to take their factory jobs, now they worry about losing college graduates as these young people move to "where the good jobs are". That's why in the last election, I didn't vote for politicians who worry about migration, I voted for politicians who worry about where the future is taking us. Invest in the future, and migration will take care of itself. if we invest in jobs that will be there, then there will be jobs. If we invest in jobs on their way out, then there won't be enough jobs, and migration may be a problem in the other direction.

The world is entering another tough period in history, there is no doubt. There is going to be labor unrest as jobs shrink. Cutting unions to save business by cutting the cost of labor isn't the solution. Over here in America, its the Trumps telling us that cutting the social safety net is the solution, b/c "government deficits are too high". Obama wanted a stimulus package, and the GOP whined about deficits--now they hand out tax breaks to the rich as profits hit historical records, and don't worry about the deficit will cost. And again, that's why I complain all the time about them.

NY58 is correct, in a perfect world, learn a trade, and as long as the construction market is doing well, so will you. Eventually, tho, we get old and our back doesn't like the hard work, and it helps if one takes some evening classes in management (or other things) and move up the ladder to an office job. My father graduated in mechanical engineering but got into computers, and for a time he was in high demand--he could automate a factory, but had the "how it gets built" knowledge to understand what the factory really needed. Anyone who's worked the shop floor, knows that know-nothing managers suck. Its the person who started work getting his or her hands dirty, and moved up into the office to tell the shareholders what the employees need to get the job done, who make the best middleground between worker and management.

in the end...the first to the buffet table, get to pick the best cuts of meat. That never changes.
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 5024
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/17/2018 4:59:56 AM
"The Washington Post reported late Sunday that President Trump “has battled his top aides on Russia and lost.”
Less than 20 hours later, Trump has now reversed U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley's announcement that the United States would be ramping up sanctions on Russia.
Hmm.
The sudden reversal of Haley's Sunday-morning announcement is hardly the only example of the right hand in the White House not always knowing what the left hand is up to. Trump often seems to be negotiating not just those around him but also with himself and has been unafraid of contradicting top aides and even Cabinet-level officials like Haley.
But on Russia and on an issue of such import, the quick reversal is stunning — and relatively rare. There is no clear indication whether Haley or someone else is at fault, but as The Post's team notes, she has a tendency to clear her remarks with Trump personally before she makes them. It seems entirely possible that she got Trump to sign off on saying more Russia sanctions were coming on Sunday morning, and then the White House got cold feet (possibly because Trump suddenly felt the need to exert himself over the process).
A look back at Haley's remarks Sunday leaves little doubt that she appeared on CBS's “Face the Nation” with the clear purpose of announcing the sanctions. It was the second answer she provided, and she volunteered the information rather than being lured into saying something that perhaps wasn't ready for public consumption."
"Those are very specific comments — not only that sanctions are coming, but that Mnuchin would announce them within 24 hours or so. It's really difficult to believe Haley was just freelancing here and didn't get the go-ahead to announce something of such significance.
It also seems entirely possible Trump wants to counteract that idea that those around him are pushing forward with a tough posture on Russia while he acts more like bystander. It's been a subplot for much of his presidency, as he has declined to criticize President Vladimir Putin and expressed a desire for better relations, even as his administration has gotten tough. I've called it a good cop-bad cop strategy, but perhaps it hasn't been a strategy at all. Perhaps Trump, who has shown little inclination for finer points of policy, simply hasn't been paying close attention and has truly been just signing off on what his State Department and Treasury Department do, believing he has no choice.
The fact that it took more than 24 hours after Haley's comments to issue a public clarification suggests that things weren't all that clear inside the White House on Sunday. Haley's office still hasn't sought to correct the record, despite it being perhaps the top story to come out of the Sunday morning news shows."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nikki-haley-finds-herself-under-the-bus-as-trump-shifts-course-on-russia/ar-AAvXbrI?ocid=spartandhp

>>>more chaos. Its times like this you watch old clips on YouTube of the TV show West Wing and sigh at what we could have. There are no father figures, no loyalty, no sense of humanity to be found as people who used to work around the prez point out what type of moron he is.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 5025
What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 4/17/2018 10:42:48 AM

It also seems entirely possible Trump wants to counteract that idea that those around him are pushing forward with a tough posture on Russia while he acts more like bystander.

Or maybe he really does feel that Russia/Putin has something to hold over his or his family's head, as has been suggested on numerous occasions. Of course, we'll never know this...unless whatever it could possibly be is finally dropped on said head(s). It seems the majority of Trump's decisions have revolved around him personally, rather than what the right thing to do is. It must have terrified him to go along with his allies in Syria, wondering what Putin would do. Now that that is over for a period of time, it's back to normal business...which isn't "normal" at all.
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