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 Million_Reasons
Joined: 10/23/2018
Msg: 5375
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Msg: 5379
Platitude:

"the problem is they were manipulated into voting for a man who does nothing for them...just makes matters worse, not better...which goes to show some of the people can be fooled all of the time."


You speak with such authority. But I have yet to evidence why such should be vested in you.

What makes you think you are so special that you can speak for the multitudes?
 2Irish123
Joined: 4/10/2018
Msg: 5376
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What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 11/24/2018 7:30:10 PM

What makes you think you are so special that you can speak for the multitudes?


Well, he does speak for the majority.
 LeFouGamboj
Joined: 11/17/2018
Msg: 5377
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What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 11/24/2018 9:42:56 PM
#5373 says


Once again we hear another episal.....


I believe the word is "epistle"...........now that you learned how to spell it, But make sure your Trump loving friends don't get wind that you are getting educated by a "liberal"...they might disown you!


I can always count on someone in here spouting off about how Trump lies, when CNN sez it's a lie.


When CNN (or Msnbc, CBS, etc) calls out his lies....it is because he gets caught in a lie...usually on video; as he did with Stormy daniels (just to name one)

The only news station that covers up his lies is Fox-news....... keep on watching!


Oh, by the way. All of you liberal posters are rotten salespeople. You haven't convinced me of one thing


Liberals cannot convince gullible simpletons who have been fully taken by a slick NY hustler.
But thank God that folks in MI, WI, and PA have come to their senses in these midterm elections, as the democrats swept the House gaining 40 seats. Even in the deep south, where the Republican party is strong.....the senate races proved to be very difficult for many of the Senate emcumbents........times they are a changin'


# 5374


Congratulations, this is the first time that finally any forum Trump loving fan barely allude to the two white supremacists orange kool-aid drinkers.


In the mind of Trump and his followers,........as long as these people come from his base, how bad can they really be?
which is why you will never hear Trump (or his followers) come down hard any of these mass killers!



At Drac



Why? All are obsessed by 'identity' politics


what office did Sharpton & Farrakan get elected to?


Oh dear. Just as well i have no valium left.


then ask your psychiatrist at the asylum for some more refills


This is great. I'm learning something new every day. Yep hillary certainly appealed to them working class types eh? Now can you explain why voters who voted TWICE for obama then cast their vote for trump?


Because Hillary lacks the innate talent to showcase herself on the stage; but because she lacks pizzazz, it does not mean she has not pushed legislation (as senator) that helped empower the working class people. Much of that does not come to the forefront, nor can it be embelished or sensationalized. Unfortunately for HC, she very much lacks the voter appeal that her husband (and Obama) naturally have, and thus could not make her efforts resonate in the more rural states.


"Mr Trump persuaded about 7m people who voted for Barack Obama in 2012, most of them white, working-class and malcontent, to vote for him. Many had not voted Republican before."


and this is a credit to Trump's ability as a con-man......coupled together with Hillary's ineptutude in convincing the masses...who were growing tired of the usual "washington politics" embodied by both parties.

HC made the added mistake by thinking that she was going to get votes simply because she was aiming to be the first woman president, and lost her focus along the way.


And how do you explain those black folks not voting for her? Are you claiming that they are 'racist' because they never voted for the 'white woman'? Or are they just ungrateful?


Neither one ^...my ignorant man!
Blacks did not vote for her as much because she was unconvincing......many who did vote cast their ballots for Sanders.

They were not racist because when her husband won the presidency....Blacks turned out in record numbers for him!
Not once but twice!


"4.4 million 2012 Obama voters stayed home in 2016 — more than a third of them black"


see above responses!
In your ignorance, what you do not understand is that it was the Democratic party that truly lost the election, because they threw all their backing behind a candidate who THEY KNEW.... was suspect and had issues from the start!

The democrats were betting that she was going to win, not because of her own merits & talents...but instead they felt that when it came right down to it......the voters would NOT pull the lever for a crooked, loud mouthed lying buffoon...with no political experience,........ over Hillary!



Aye she REALLY appealed to folk eh?...............

I know. You are correct. Why did voters just not see that globalism is really GOOD for them in the long run?


^your ignorance of our politics is glaring!
Her defeat was not because she represented globalism Vs. Trump representing Nationalism
If Obama could have run a 3rd term............he would have beaten Trump ...at least in the 3 northern states that HC could not win (WI, MI, and PA) needed to capture the electoral votes!


To be fair, Democrats play the race card every day, on every network, every single year. They have to. Their record of achievement with African-American voters - on poverty, on black-on-black crime, on education, on wages, on the unprecedented number of African-Americans on Food Stamps - is abysmal."


as I said, all politics is dirty....but to really be fair......it has been consistently shown that it is the Republicans who coddle the supremacists, making sure they send out the "dog-whistle" messages, empathizing with their hate and xenophobia...........................................so YES, the democrats are well justified in playing the race card...face-up on the game table!


Are you sure it is myself that is clueless?


you bet!


"but let it be someone with dark skin with an Islamic name"

Are you saying only dark skinned folk have islamic names?


not at all, but given the geographic origin of most Muslims, it is highly likley that most will have a skin tone a few shades darker that Trump's..................couple that with the fact that most haters are very visual and focus on color!

And if they see 2 people walking down the street, one person with darker features than the other....who do you think they will bet on as being Muslim?


I've stated before and will do again. Trump should have become president first and THEN used his position to molest impressionable young lassies. It worked for bill clinton.


maybe he should have.


"What #MeToo has done is made Lewinsky see the issue of consent differently. “I now see how problematic it was the two of us even got to a place where there was a question of consent.” What happened she now says, was “a gross of abuse of power”.indeed he was 27 years older than her, and the most powerful man on the planet.
Why now does this matter? Because consent matters. Because #MeToo matters, and because Trump is in the White House with another woman who will stand by her man. This time it’s his daughter, Ivanka.
Trump, of course, was happy enough to use women who had accused Clinton of sexual harassment as part of his election campaign.
On the campaign trail, Hillary Clinton was asked about Paula Jones, Juanita Broaddrick and Kathleen Willey. Elsewhere, she had said women should be believed.
The pact made by Hillary and Bill was one that is instinctively repulsive to me, not because I care about fidelity but because I care about class.


ahhh, when all else fails....just pop open a bottle of "whatabout-isms ^^^"

whatabout Bill
whatabout hillary and Bill
whatabout hillary, bill and monica
whatabout hillary, bill, monica and harvey, etc!

Its hard not to see that in your above ramblings, that your efforts in pointing out Bill and Hilary's improprieties in juxtapostion to Trump is a lame attempt to make him look less dispicable or less distasteful


I'm sure the citizens earning a pittance in wages to manufacture goods for the american empire will be glad the american empire is paying them a $1 a day wages rather than bombing the shite out of those whom the american empire believe have not embraced globalism.


That $1 dollar America "pays" them.....is a dollar more that what your empire paid your unwilling subjects for nearly 500 years.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 5378
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What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 11/25/2018 3:24:04 AM
Platy

"Why is Trump our President? Easy...lots of angry people, lots of people left behind, lots of people frustrated by the generic politicians that do nothing for them...and you know...they all had a reason for voting out the establishment, the problem is they were manipulated into voting for a man who does nothing for them...just makes matters worse, not better...which goes to show some of the people can be fooled all of the time."


Woo hoo. AT LAST. You have made the point that i and many others have made about WHY the donald became president the donald.

Yes i agree many many racists voted for trump. But countless millions voted because they feel the political process in your nation just did not give a toss about them and their problems.

There were many reasons as to why they voted how they did. And at last you have posted a reply which gets to the point of why they voted as they did.

It makes for a far more interesting debate rather than just insulting folk who voted the 'wrong' way. Keep up posts like that mate............
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 5379
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What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 11/25/2018 3:28:33 AM
LeFou
"Because Hillary lacks the innate talent to showcase herself on the stage; but because she lacks pizzazz, it does not mean she has not pushed legislation (as senator) that helped empower the working class people. Much of that does not come to the forefront, nor can it be embelished or sensationalized."

Am i to take from that then that sherman voters cast their votes for personality rather then policies then?........

"and this is a credit to Trump's ability as a con-man......coupled together with Hillary's ineptutude in convincing the masses...who were growing tired of the usual "washington politics" embodied by both parties."

But if the masses were fed up of the washington belt political parties and then voted for trump then how were they conned?..................


"HC made the added mistake by thinking that she was going to get votes simply because she was aiming to be the first woman president, and lost her focus along the way."

Exactly. She played her 'identity' card. And lost..................

"Blacks did not vote for her as much because she was unconvincing......many who did vote cast their ballots for Sanders."

But sanders was not the democratic party challenger. And are you saying clinton put forward policies that offered black folk nothing?..............

"They were not racist because when her husband won the presidency....Blacks turned out in record numbers for him! Not once but twice!"

And yet it has been posted on here that the vote for trump was because of the racist vote. Yet many trump voters voted for obama. Twice..............

"4.4 million 2012 Obama voters stayed home in 2016 — more than a third of them black" see above responses!

In your ignorance, what you do not understand is that it was the Democratic party that truly lost the election, because they threw all their backing behind a candidate who THEY KNEW.... was suspect and had issues from the start!"

Would you like to pat my head when you patronise me? And is that the reason i do not understand why the democrats lost? Then why can YOU not understand why trump won then?...............

"The democrats were betting that she was going to win, not because of her own merits & talents...but instead they felt that when it came right down to it......the voters would NOT pull the lever for a crooked, loud mouthed lying buffoon...with no political experience,........ over Hillary!"

So the democratic party machine once more ignored voters and assumed they could put forward any candidate they wanted? What voters wanted counted for nothing. Didn't work out to well for them did it?.............

"I know. You are correct. Why did voters just not see that globalism is really GOOD for them in the long run?

^your ignorance of our politics is glaring!
Her defeat was not because she represented globalism Vs. Trump representing Nationalism
If Obama could have run a 3rd term............he would have beaten Trump ...at least in the 3 northern states that HC could not win (WI, MI, and PA) needed to capture the electoral votes!"

See? There you go again. Rather than try and explain the intricacies of your political system to a foreigner you just patronise. The obama point makes no sense. After two shots he cannot run again so the hypothetical point is void. And if you think globalism did not play a part then you are delusional...............

"as I said, all politics is dirty....but to really be fair......it has been consistently shown that it is the Republicans who coddle the supremacists, making sure they send out the "dog-whistle" messages, empathizing with their hate and xenophobia...........................................so YES, the democrats are well justified in playing the race card...face-up on the game table!"

So the race card is fine to play as long as it is your player playing it? How racist..................

"not at all, but given the geographic origin of most Muslims, it is highly likley that most will have a skin tone a few shades darker that Trump's..................couple that with the fact that most haters are very visual and focus on color!"

You mean like the democrats playing the race card?.................
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 5380
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What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 11/25/2018 3:30:44 AM
"And if they see 2 people walking down the street, one person with darker features than the other....who do you think they will bet on as being Muslim?"

How religophobic is that response? Maybe the darker featured person is a christian. So YOU judge folks religion by their skin colour? Like WOW.............

"What #MeToo has done is made Lewinsky see the issue of consent differently. “I now see how problematic it was the two of us even got to a place where there was a question of consent"

ahhh, when all else fails....just pop open a bottle of "whatabout-isms ^^^"
whatabout Bill
whatabout hillary and Bill
whatabout hillary, bill and monica
whatabout hillary, bill, monica and harvey, etc!"

But do you not see that being 'outraged' about trumps antics regarding women loses a lot of it's 'outrage' when those being 'outraged' were never 'outraged' when THEIR chosen politicians antics against women became known?

And it IS a valid point mentioning clinton and HIS abuse of women.............

"Tarana Burke, the founder of the #MeToo movement, has said it is "tragic" that Hillary Clinton believes that former President Bill Clinton did not abuse his position of power during his affair with then-White House intern Monica Lewinsky in the 1990s."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/tarana-burke-hillary-clinton-bill-monica-lewinsky-metoo-founder-abuse-white-house-a8591196.html

Voters were supposed to be 'outraged' about trump and his abuse of power regarding women and vote for someone who's husband, when president abused his power regarding women is to be excused?

Did the irony of her statement sail over folks heads?...............

"Its hard not to see that in your above ramblings, that your efforts in pointing out Bill and Hilary's improprieties in juxtapostion to Trump is a lame attempt to make him look less dispicable or less distasteful"

I could not give a donald duck about donald trump. All i knew of him before he ran for president was the shenanigans regarding his golf course up the north east coast of Scotland.

But when obama AND clinton threatened the uk over trade regarding the brexit vote i wanted trump to win. He said when asked that it was up to the uk's citizens how they voted.............

"I'm sure the citizens earning a pittance in wages to manufacture goods for the american empire will be glad the american empire is paying them a $1 a day wages
That $1 dollar America "pays" them.....is a dollar more that what your empire paid your unwilling subjects for nearly 500 years."

Err is that not a bit of what-aboutery there then? As for your question. I do not know what workers were paid under the british empire. I was not alive then. And there was no empire when i was born or growing up.

You my friend are alive though. You are a citizen from the land where the american empire casts it's power over the world. And you sound quite happy that workers get a $1.

But if you are unhappy about this abuse of workers who are exploited by globalism then what are you doing about it?
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 5381
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What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 11/25/2018 7:25:19 AM
Vlad I have never disagreed with you why Trump was elected....the huge chasm between us though is I recognize who and what Trump is whereas you see him as some sort of savior......you are kind of a tear them down guy without worrying about attempting to rebuild what you have torn down. Trump is far worse for our country than the competition...but the country was fooled....much as you have been fooled. You are angry...so any change is better than no change from your point of view...that type of thinking is what brought the world Hitler.
 LeFouGamboj
Joined: 11/17/2018
Msg: 5382
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What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 11/25/2018 7:18:54 PM
At Drac


Am i to take from that then that sherman voters cast their votes for personality rather then policies then?


In this country...if you don't have the needed charisma, presentation, and carry yourself in a way that does not resonate with people, you will NOT get elected to high office...no matter how exceptional you may be.

Look at John Kasich...easily the most intelligent, experienced, realistic of all the republican candidates (such that Trump pleaded with him to accept the Vice-presidency...before going to Pence).....yet he could not come close in the rankings


But if the masses were fed up of the washington belt political parties and then voted for trump then how were they conned?


They were conned because Trump came across as being "his own man"....not beholden to any donors or special interests............and because of that, he stated that he knew exactly how to remedy the economic woes (real or perceived) of the USA,........ and with his "devil may care" style, he convinced a whole lotta simple (and even not so simple) folks that he was the real deal; making him immune from the washington tethers

Instead (as we now know)...he is a crooked & malignant individual who only cares about himself & his family.

Incidentally, Bernie sanders presented himself as an outsider as well......but he could could not overcome Hillary's foot-print in the primaries.



She played her 'identity' card. And lost.


Partly true...but she did not solely lose because of the "identity card"...she campaigned clumsily, disregarded very important swing states (ie. Wisconsin) ...and picked a stiff as her VP, instead of sanders.

Heavy negative interference from Russia on social & public media (with the hope of creating voter apathy amongst the young, the independants, as well as Blacks & Latino, so that they did not show up to vote) against HC proved very effective.


But sanders was not the democratic party challenger.


In the primaries he was!


And are you saying clinton put forward policies that offered black folk nothing?


HC essentially vied for a continuation of what Obama had done.....figuring that if they were content with Obama (who had a very high approval rating), they wouldn't mind accepting her.............this isn't to say she offered them "nothing"...but Sanders may have had more innovative ideas (how realistic, no one will know), and may have prodded them to come out and vote had he been on the ticket instead of Kaine


and yet it has been posted on here that the vote for trump was because of the racist vote. Yet many trump voters voted for obama. Twice


All the racists, xenophobes, and bigots definitely voted for Trump.....this isn't to say that all who voted for him were that!

Keep in mind that on both of Obama's wins, he did NOT get the majority of the white vote (unlike Trump)...although he did get a fair percentage

Yes, a subset of white moderates & independants who had voted for Obama definitely voted for Trump...but mainly because they got hoodwinked by his convincing lies...........however, the (white) voters from Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennyslvania...sent a different message to Trump in 2018!


In your ignorance, what you do not understand is that it was the Democratic party that truly lost the election, because they threw all their backing behind a candidate who THEY KNEW.... was suspect and had issues from the start!"

Would you like to pat my head when you patronise me? And is that the reason i do not understand why the democrats lost? Then why can YOU not understand why trump won then?


In 2012, when Obama was neck & neck with Romney (some say Obama lost 2 of 3 debates), he needed an edge....that was when he reached out to HC & Bill. During the Democratic convention, Bill gave Obama a big endorsement, which was worth its weight in gold. But it wasn't free!!!

The deal was made that if HC were to run from prez in 2016:
-No major democrat would get in her way....including Joe Biden (who would have been next in line)
-She would get fully endorsed without question from Obama and Biden (which she did)

The Democrats went along with it...but they knew they were taking a big risk with her...with the baggage she was coming in with...and her past defeat vs an unknown named Obama. Trump won because of what was already stated;
what HC believed of herself .......was different than the pubic perception of her


So the democratic party machine once more ignored voters and assumed they could put forward any candidate they wanted?


that was the deal that was made behind closed doors between HC, Obama/Biden & the democratic party....if they wanted to up their chances of winning the presidency in 2012...........In accepting this deal, the democratic party had little choice in who they could put forth.

The presence of Sanders and O'mally in the Democratic primaries was just for cosmetics, as she was expected to win the nomination without breaking a sweat. However, she (and the democrats) did not expect sanders (a political nobody) to have the kind of run he did against her...which also may have served to hurt her!


See? There you go again. Rather than try and explain the intricacies of your political system to a foreigner you just patronise. The obama point makes no sense. After two shots he cannot run again so the hypothetical point is void. And if you think globalism did not play a part then you are delusional


Again I'll say...few if any give a flipping-hoot about Globalism (or lack of it) here in the USA...in terms of how it impacted their day to day lives...it was not a direct determinant for most voters !

The USA invented Globalism.....the machinations of both major parties benefitted from it over the years. Trump himself took great advantage of globalism in expanding his "empire"...as he expanded his connections internationally, and benefitted greatly by purchasing less expensive resources overseas for his undertakings.

Once he was running for prez, he railed against Globalism...blaming it for all the ills (real or perceived) that was plaguing the american economy. He did so only because HC was pro-Global, and he found it easy to convince much of middle America that the reasons they had few job opportinuties was because of Globalism...and they went for it like a mouse goes for cheese!


So the race card is fine to play as long as it is your player playing it?


The race card is "fine" to play when your opponents have a policy that embraces (directly or indirectly) racists, xenophobes, bigots!


You mean like the democrats playing the race card?


see above ^ response.......just stop embracing haters, supremacists, bigots, ....that way, your opponents cannot play the race-card on you!


"And if they see 2 people walking down the street, one person with darker features than the other....who do you think they will bet on as being Muslim?"

How religophobic is that response? Maybe the darker featured person is a christian. So YOU judge folks religion by their skin colour? Like WOW..


Nice try...how Trumpistsic of you, in your attempted deceit in pegging me as a racist......when I was only giving you an example of how a racist might visually perceive people of a certain color.

Yeah, he could be a Christian, Hindu, etc...........but when you are looking for a scapegoat fashioned by Trump's hate-mongering.....the designation of Muslim would be the first to come to mind for these "fine" (as trump defines them) folks!


But do you not see that being 'outraged' about trumps antics regarding women loses a lot of it's 'outrage' when those being 'outraged' were never 'outraged' when THEIR chosen politicians antics against women became known?


The general (voting) public has never been greatly outraged about Trump's treatment of women!
If that were the case, he'd never gotten elected.

The voters looked past Trump's indiscretions...... as they did with Bill's.


Tarana Burke, the founder of the #MeToo movement, has said it is "tragic" that Hillary Clinton believes that former President Bill Clinton did not abuse his position of power during his affair with then-White House intern Monica Lewinsky in the 1990s."


WtF does anybody expect HC to say about what Bill did?...especially if HC decided not to divorce him.
Burke has a right to her POV...but likewise HC has a right to express on how she sees it .

But we can go back even further...to JFK who was Humping every young available female while he was prez...was he taking advantage of his position?.....by what standard do we judge them?


But when obama AND clinton threatened the uk over trade regarding the brexit vote i wanted trump to win. He said when asked that it was up to the uk's citizens how they voted


If you absolutely think that there will be zero impact on trade with North America once the UK leaves the EU...you might be in for a surprise:
https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/12/news/economy/brexit-trade-deal-us-uk/index.html

The biggest mistake May will be making..... is believing what comes out of Trump's lying mouth!


But if you are unhappy about this abuse of workers who are exploited by globalism then what are you doing about it?


There is little I can do, but I will say this:

Most countries/nations today, at least have some choice on whether or not they wish to be "expolited"
The colonies ruled by the UK empire were given no such choice.
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 5383
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What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 11/25/2018 9:00:24 PM
^^^okay who were you before? You ain't no 22 year old kid, that's for sure.

 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 5384
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What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 11/26/2018 3:31:36 AM
Interesting the mentions of bernie sanders. He would have been the better choice. But i recently got an app for something called the atlantic. In depth articles mainly with a liberal leaning. Anyway i was reading this yesterday. IF sanders was to run again he would i think need to have a coherent immigration policy.

Anyway all quoted bits are from the atlantic article. And i would welcome any comments which can explain to me how liberals would deal with immigration.

And platy. Your doing well answering without displaying TDS. Keep it up................

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-democrats-immigration-mistake/528678/

"If the right has grown more nationalistic, the left has grown less so. A decade ago, liberals publicly questioned immigration in ways that would shock many progressives today.

In 2005, a left-leaning blogger wrote, “Illegal immigration wreaks havoc economically, socially, and culturally; makes a mockery of the rule of law; and is disgraceful just on basic fairness grounds alone.”

In 2006, a liberal columnist wrote that “immigration reduces the wages of domestic workers who compete with immigrants” and that “the fiscal burden of low-wage immigrants is also pretty clear.” His conclusion: “We’ll need to reduce the inflow of low-skill immigrants.”

That same year, a Democratic senator wrote, “When I see Mexican flags waved at proimmigration demonstrations, I sometimes feel a flush of patriotic resentment. When I’m forced to use a translator to communicate with the guy fixing my car, I feel a certain frustration.”

The blogger was Glenn Greenwald. The columnist was Paul Krugman. The senator was Barack Obama."

Now I've never heard of the first two but the third name is familiar. So that WAS common thought by liberal types less than 20 years ago.............

"A larger explanation is political. Between 2008 and 2016, Democrats became more and more confident that the country’s growing Latino population gave the party an electoral edge.

To win the presidency, Democrats convinced themselves, they didn’t need to reassure white people skeptical of immigration so long as they turned out their Latino base. “The fastest-growing sector of the American electorate stampeded toward the Democrats this November"

So it would be a fair assumption that the democrats rather cynically in my eyes chose to abandon the white working class would it not?..................

"Alongside pressure from pro-immigrant activists came pressure from corporate America, especially the Democrat-aligned tech industry, which uses the H-1B visa program to import workers.

"In 2010, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, along with the CEOs of companies including Hewlett-Packard, Boeing, Disney, and News Corporation, formed New American Economy to advocate for business-friendly immigration policies. Three years later, Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates helped found FWD.us to promote a similar agenda."

And now big business applied pressure. Now why exactly would large sherman companies want a nice cheap exploitable poor folk from poor nations?................

"This combination of Latino and corporate activism made it perilous for Democrats to discuss immigration’s costs, as Bernie Sanders learned the hard way.
In July 2015, two months after officially announcing his candidacy for president, Sanders was interviewed by Ezra Klein, the editor in chief of Vox.

Klein asked whether, in order to fight global poverty, the U.S. should consider “sharply raising the level of immigration we permit, even up to a level of open borders.”

Sanders reacted with horror. “That’s a Koch brothers proposal,” he scoffed. He went on to insist that “right-wing people in this country would love … an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. "I don’t believe in that. I think we have to raise wages in this country.”

Now that above interview with sanders is quite revealing. He knows full well masses of poor immigrants will drive down wages for workers already toiling to survive in shermanland. I see the koch brothers mentioned a lot on here. And there is sanders saying unlimited immigration of cheap unskilled labour is what the neo con republicans would like...............

"Sanders came under immediate attack.
Vox’s Dylan Matthews declared that his “fear of immigrant labor is ugly—and wrongheaded.” The president of FWD.us accused Sanders of “the sort of backward-looking thinking that progressives have rightly moved away from in the past years.”

ThinkProgress published a blog post titled “Why Immigration Is the Hole in Bernie Sanders’ Progressive Agenda.” The senator, it argued, was supporting “the idea that immigrants coming to the U.S. are taking jobs and hurting the economy, a theory that has been proven incorrect.”

So sanders knew cheap migrant labour drives down wages for ALL blue collar workers (not just the white ones) big business accuses him of 'backward' thinking because he believed mass migration hurt the working class..........

"Sanders stopped emphasizing immigration’s costs. By January 2016, FWD.us’s policy director noted with satisfaction that he had “evolved on this issue.”

So sanders capitulated. And for that alone he has lost his man of the people title. He moved from being a blue collar worker champion to being a tool of big business..............
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 5385
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What good things has Trump accomplished?
Posted: 11/26/2018 3:54:27 AM
"But has the claim that “immigrants coming to the U.S. are taking jobs” actually been proved “incorrect”? A decade ago, liberals weren’t so sure.

In 2006, Krugman wrote that America was experiencing “large increases in the number of low-skill workers relative to other inputs into production, so it’s inevitable that this means a fall in wages.”

So politicians like sander who seen the link between mass immigration of unskilled cheap exploitable labour and wages falling were shouted and closed down by pro mass immigration types. And yet................

"According to a comprehensive new report by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, “Groups comparable to … immigrants in terms of their skill may experience a wage reduction as a result of immigration-induced increases in labor supply.”

But academics sometimes de-emphasize this wage reduction because, like liberal journalists and politicians, they face pressures to support immigration."

Now it seems plain to me that people like sanders KNEW the problem. Yet they abandoned their principles and in turn abandoned the working class...............

"Many of the immigration scholars regularly cited in the press have worked for, or received funding from, pro-immigration businesses and associations. Consider, for instance, Giovanni Peri, an economist at UC Davis whose name pops up a lot in liberal commentary on the virtues of immigration.

A 2015 New York Times Magazine essay titled “Debunking the Myth of the Job-Stealing Immigrant” declared that Peri, whom it called the “leading scholar” on how nations respond to immigration, had “shown that immigrants tend to complement—rather than compete against—the existing work force.” Peri is indeed a respected scholar. But Microsoft has funded some of his research into high-skilled immigration"

Now there's a shock. A pro immigration 'theorist' bought at paid for by a pro immigration globalist business.......

"The problem is that, although economists differ about the extent of the damage, immigration hurts the Americans with whom immigrants compete. And since more than a quarter of America’s recent immigrants lack even a high-school diploma or its equivalent, immigration particularly hurts the least-educated native workers, the very people who are already struggling the most.

America’s immigration system, in other words, pits two of the groups liberals care about most—the native-born poor and the immigrant poor—against each other."

Sanders recognised this. He knew american workers were headed to the bottom as there were too many folk chasing the same jobs...........

"One way of mitigating this problem would be to scrap the current system, which allows immigrants living in the U.S. to bring certain close relatives to the country, in favor of what Donald Trump in February called a “merit based” approach that prioritizes highly skilled and educated workers."

Now a policy that i would think most working class could agree with. America does not need more poor folk. They need skilled folk. Sanders probably supported this. He could see the problem. Yet he abandoned workers. The democrats abandoned workers. So workers abandoned them. Quid Pro Quo............

"A better answer is to take some of the windfall that immigration brings to wealthier Americans and give it to those poorer Americans whom immigration harms.

Borjas has suggested taxing the high-tech, agricultural, and service-sector companies that profit from cheap immigrant labor and using the money to compensate those Americans who are displaced by it."

Now there is a cracking policy. A vote winner. Make the companies who love cheap exploited labour who will work for next to nothing pay the money they save in wages to help train sherman youngsters.............

"The next Democratic presidential nominee should commit those words to memory. There’s a reason Barack Obama’s declaration at the 2004 Democratic National Convention that “there is not a liberal America and a conservative America … There is not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there’s the United States of America” is among his most famous lines"

To achieve that statement of obamas though would mean moving away from 'identity' politics............

"In 2014, the University of California listed melting pot as a term it considered a “microaggression.”
What if Hillary Clinton had traveled to one of its campuses and called that absurd?
What if she had challenged elite universities to celebrate not merely multiculturalism and globalization but Americanness?
What if she had said more boldly that the slowing rate of English-language acquisition was a problem she was determined to solve?

What if she had acknowledged the challenges that mass immigration brings, and then insisted that Americans could overcome those challenges by focusing not on what makes them different but on what makes them the same?
Some on the left would have howled. But I suspect that Clinton would be president today."

As far as i can see the democrats have no coherent immigration policy. They are frightened to 'offend'.

Yet my sherman friends immigration is one of the most contentious problems in our nations. Allowing thousands of unskilled, non english speaking migrants will be a disaster. I know european politics are alien to most of yous. But just look at the backlash in european nations because of allowing millions of undocumented economic migrants to pile over borders.

Virtually every nation in europe is seeing a rise in popularity of anti mass immigration, anti eu, anti liberal parties.

In the uk a couple of years back we had around 300,000 east europeans arrive. And around 400,000 non eu citizens arrive.

700,000 folk a year. Who all need housing, health care, education and either work/benefits. There are schools in englandshire where the majority of bairns do not speak english. Mass ghettos are being formed in many english towns and cities where citizens are divided along religious lines.
The one thing yous have in your favour is the size of your country.
But yous have many cities divided along racial divides. We had a couple of documentaries over here about hispanic gangs trying to drive black gangs out of areas in los angeles.
Yet your politicians seem to either ignore or just do not care.
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