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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles      Home login  
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 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 26
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tilesPage 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
really, the oil on the machine that made the computer? how about the pastrami sandwich the driver of the truck that delivered the computer ate for lunch? Somehow I think the BP oil spill in the Gulf caused more damage. meanwhile the sales pitch sure is interesting if it works out to be true:

$69,000 to install the solar roof tiles on a 2,600 square foot roof, b/c only 30-40% of the space needs those tiles to work. That includes the $7,000 battery. There's a $15,500 Federal tax credit (unless the Trumpets take it away to help defray the cost of tax cuts for the rich). Theoretically the tiles will produce $62,100 in electricity over 30 years, and the original cost can be put into the homeowners mortgage. The tiles will be made in Fremont CA but that will move to Buffalo NY, so its an American made product that puts Americans to work.

Or we can give tax cuts to the rich instead. And see if that helps the American worker.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 27
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/13/2017 7:06:01 AM

$69,000 to install the solar roof tiles...Theoretically the tiles will produce $62,100 in electricity over 30 years, and the original cost can be put into the homeowners mortgage.


So, theoretically, it would take over 30 years to pay for itself-especially if you take into consideration the interest paid on the addition to a mortgage-and that's if a bank will lend you the money to increase the size of your mortgage. That doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

Most people get the maximum amount the bank will lend for a mortgage as it is, since nobody wants to start up in a starter home or fixer-up-er, like people often did in the past. Everybody now, wants that big McMansion as their starter home. So asking a bank for an additional 69k is not cut and dry and a done deal. How many people know for a fact that they will be living in the same house for the next 30 years? A lot of people end up moving for various reasons unforeseen, who never thought they would someday move. Those people better hope that the resale value of their home will cover the additional cost of the solar panels, or they will be stuck paying for it even if they're gone.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 28
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/13/2017 7:25:36 AM

So, theoretically, it would take over 30 years to pay for itself-especially if you take into consideration the interest paid on the addition to a mortgage-and that's if a bank will lend you the money to increase the size of your mortgage. That doesn't sound like a good deal to me.


I think you are missing the part that it increases the value of the home and as such the ROI is baked into that as well.

So your cost of offset by the increased value.




Most people get the maximum amount the bank will lend for a mortgage as it is, since nobody wants to start up in a starter home or fixer-up-er, like people often did in the past.


Do you not remember the mortgage crisis?

There are no more of 80 / 20 combo loans or liar loans.

The fact is the majority of people do not max out, they borrow what they can afford.



Bottom line is, houses with solar panels are becoming a hot ticket and a sought after product.
 lyinjovan
Joined: 4/3/2017
Msg: 29
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/13/2017 12:18:29 PM
Here is a tip...Tesla is 325 per share, worth about 197 per share. Huge short interest...25% or so of the float....when this market turns this year and it will, this will be a great short to make some dollars. Just sayin.
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 30
view profile
History
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/13/2017 5:08:40 PM
It's a sellers market, you're buying it all. You all get that warm, fuzzy feeling over energy efficient, shell out big bucks for this crap. 5-10 years down the road, it conks out on you. Problem- the manufacturer for this junk went out of business. No Parts Available. But YOU'RE still paying for it. So you reach out to anyone who might be able to fix it. Second problem- They don't understand how the thing works -OR- they knew it was junk from day one, and wouldn't sell it. They were around when you bought it, but their price way way more than that fast talking seller that you bought it from.

I'm currently working with one person that bought a GeoThermal heating system. Original price- 23K. That was nine years ago. Worked great, until it ate it's first compressor. $5500 later, it works great again. Three years later, it eats another compressor. Now the compressor, is $9500. And doesn't work the same as the old one. Refitting the system for it to work will cost another $11,000. Second issue in this scenario, is finding someone to be able to understand, and install it. Six of the best heating/cooling experts in my area have all looked at it, and can barely grasp the hows & whys of this system. All have said it's far too complicated for what it does. And none will take the chance of fixing it. Sorting out this mess will cost the homeowner somewhere in the neighborhood of $35,000, which includes a new system.

The homeowner is real happy about this, as you can well imagine.

Around here, there was some outfit that was selling wind turbines. They're gone now. A number of people bought those silly things. About half of them have burned out. They had brakes on them to keep 'em from turning too fast in a high wind. Well, brakes wore out, they spun too fast, cooking the generators. Those were about $20k. Fixing them requires personal lifts at $200 a day. Then tracking down the parts, rewinding the armatures. By the time it's fixed, probably 5-6k. None of these outfits followed the K.I.S.S principal. (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

Joe Homeowner and his green thinking ways, can read up on all of this garbage. Make a purchase that costs thousands, and never break even on his investment. Few think about the maintenance issues. Bet those solar cells that produce electricity, work better when they're spotlessly clean. But the efficiency drops like a stone when they get dirty.

When something comes out that's so incredibly efficient, that the general public rushes in to buy it, (Think of it, like when the car was invented) then, it will be a total boon for all. Stopping affordable energy won't make it happen any faster.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 31
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/13/2017 5:25:47 PM

Around here, there was some outfit that was selling wind turbines. They're gone now. A number of people bought those silly things. About half of them have burned out. They had brakes on them to keep 'em from turning too fast in a high wind. Well, brakes wore out, they spun too fast, cooking the generators. Those were about $20k. Fixing them requires personal lifts at $200 a day. Then tracking down the parts, rewinding the armatures. By the time it's fixed, probably 5-6k. None of these outfits followed the K.I.S.S principal. (Keep It Simple, Stupid)


So what was the name of the company?

As most wind gens that I have seen either have blade feathering capabilities or they can disengage the generator and spin free.




When something comes out that's so incredibly efficient, that the general public rushes in to buy it, (Think of it, like when the car was invented) then, it will be a total boon for all. Stopping affordable energy won't make it happen any faster.


If you think the car boom happened without goverment intervention and building of infrastructure which was subsidies by the tax payers you have no idea.

Also, funny enough it was the oil lobby that killed the electric car, as in the 20's that was going to be the future.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 32
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/13/2017 5:26:23 PM
^^^Good point, Purple. Reminds me of all the people who bought Sears appliances with full warrantees, Craftsman tools, Die Hard batteries etc b/c hey, Sears & Roebuck will never go out of business and leave the malls. Just can't trust anyone nowadays. Thank goodness no one bought cars when they first came out, so that they could wither on the vine and die and we could still use horses today. The part I like about solar power is when a storm takes down a power line...there's a chance a home can still be keeping the freezer running.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 33
view profile
History
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/13/2017 7:43:09 PM
LOLTrump:

Then clearly you have no idea how pure science works.

Is this your attempt at satire?.... you're doing it right.


gtomustang:

Natural gas may just be a stepping stone to other sources of energy. And of course, there are efficient appliances...the demand for energy is decreasing. Old appliances may last longer b/c they simply didn't run at 100% efficiency. They weren't pushed as hard.

Seeing as how we have neither winds blowing or the sun shining 24 hrs a day, backup generators are needed.... and THEY do run 24 a day... just in case. These backup gens are running on fossil fuels.

I'm thinking you're overestimating the build quality of these new appliances... either way, one has to wonder about how much energy is really saved by manufacturing and shipping a new fridge every 5 yrs compared to a less efficient one that lasts 30.

I'd love to have a Studebaker lawnmower.

$69,000 to install the solar roof tiles on a 2,600 square foot roof, b/c only 30-40% of the space needs those tiles to work. That includes the $7,000 battery. There's a $15,500 Federal tax credit (unless the Trumpets take it away to help defray the cost of tax cuts for the rich). Theoretically the tiles will produce $62,100 in electricity over 30 years, and the original cost can be put into the homeowners mortgage.

Maleman already did a good job addressing this, I just wanted to add a few points. Really those solar tiles are going to cost less than $69,000 on a new build because money would have had to be spent one way or another on putting a roof over the house... of course you forgot to mention the extra interest you'd be paying over 20-30 yrs as well. Even including the $15,500 tax credit (which should work out to $2,000-5,500 in real money on your tax return), from the figures given by you, once all the numbers are crunched and assuming the solar panels work as good as advertised.... they should come close to paying for themselves by the time you have to replace them.

I think that shingles nowadays come with a 35 yr warranty.... so the warranty on the solar panels expires first.... (not that I neccesarily trust either of these warranties... Purplerider covered this.)

The tiles will be made in Fremont CA but that will move to Buffalo NY, so its an American made product that puts Americans to work.

Or we can give tax cuts to the rich instead. And see if that helps the American worker.

So that $15,500 tax credit should only be applied if these tiles continue to be made in the USA?.... I bet Donald Trump would agree completely.

 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 34
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/13/2017 9:05:02 PM

Is this your attempt at satire?.... you're doing it right.


If that was your attempt to clarify what you meant then you are doing it wrong.

Pure science is searching for the sake of searching and understanding that the majorities of discoveries are made looking for something else.

Most drugs we use today are derivatives of things intended for other purposes but through trails realized they had other effects.

The technological boom that happened was a direct result of goverment science and if you want to be on the front of the next wave and if a goverment does that and they everyone gets access to it, you have as close to a free market as you are going to get. If a business does it, now you have a monopoly and that is only going to be good for them.

Now that said, Tesla is a bit different and they have opened up many of their patents (which is smart, as you want everyone using your tech and thus you do not create some type of beta vhs thing)



Seeing as how we have neither winds blowing or the sun shining 24 hrs a day, backup generators are needed.... and THEY do run 24 a day... just in case. These backup gens are running on fossil fuels.


Germany as a country hit 85% the other day.

And this is why money needs to be spent, as collection is not the bottleneck, but storage.

This is where we may need to look old school in some cases, as you are over producing you pump water up a hill and then it can sit at the top for as long as you need it and then when you do you release and recapture the energy. Right now they can be about 70% efficient, though that does not matter as you can always grab more.




So that $15,500 tax credit should only be applied if these tiles continue to be made in the USA?.... I bet Donald Trump would agree completely.


Take a look at what Tesla has invested in and you will see they are not going to outsourcing much of anything.

Tesla Gigafactory



 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 35
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/14/2017 5:57:14 AM
Yep, the sun doesn't shine at night and the winds don't always blow. But what do batteries and efficient appliances do to help offset that?

"Some of that cost may be offset by the savings from buying less power from a central utility. Then there's the benefit of having working lights, refrigeration, and a charged cellphone in the aftermath of a storm"

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2013/0427/Want-a-solar-home-Consider-batteries

Over-estimating build quality...well, how long do people keep a car?

"In general, however, people don't really keep their cars forever. Research by R.L. Polk says that the average age of a modern vehicle is 11.4 years, while the average length of time drivers keep a new vehicle is 71.4 months -- around 6 years....Advancements in technology is one major reason why people move on to just about any good -- whether it's a computer, a phone or a car. And even if you buy your car with the desire to drive it forever, we suspect technology advancements -- or at least new safety features -- will have you eyeing a newer model eventually."

http://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/buying-a-car-how-long-can-you-expect-a-car-to-last-240725

how long do normal appliances last?

"The life expectancy of a typical appliance depends to a great extent on the use it receives. Moreover, appliances are often replaced long before they are worn out because changes in styling, technology and consumer preferences make newer products more desirable. Of the major appliances in a home, gas ranges have the longest life expectancy: 15 years. Dryers and refrigerators last about 13 years. Some of the appliances with the shortest lifespan are: compactors (6 years), dishwashers (9 years) and microwave ovens (9 years)."

https://www.thisoldhouse.com/ideas/how-long-things-last

and hey, buying new stuff helps keeps Americans employed :)

As for the Gravely lawn tractor, I can tell you from experience, if it has the electric start, it has a different flywheel from the pull start. And that thing is a royal B!TCH to pull. Used to do the pull start as a child, its practically designed to separate your back disks. And the front attachments are amazing, sickle blades, reel blades up to 90" spread and a regular rotary blade of 30 inches. Plus chain saws, water well pumps, brushes for cleaning the sand off parking lots, two types of cultivators for digging up gardens...go check out your local antique engine shows to buy one. Get the four speed rather than the stock two speed.

down here, interest on mortgage up to $100,000 I think is deductible on your taxes...so some might want more to declare on their taxes, while taking the electric bill savings. But not everyone plays the deduction game, right.

for some people, solar is worth a look-see.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 36
view profile
History
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/14/2017 8:10:39 PM
LOLTrump:

If that was your attempt to clarify what you meant then you are doing it wrong.

Several days ago I explained how CBS news was dishonest in a story concerning Trump's administration, the FDA, and Fox news. It was obvious. Now someone might twist themselves into knots trying to show that the possibility of CBS's claim could possibly still turn out to be true... but news organisations are not supposed to report something as fact without proof.

And you denied everything. You said it was all true.... which proves you are either:

a) a liar... or...

b) stupid

I've seen where others are are calling you "Frank" and "Aristotle"... there was also "HalifaxRob"?.... "Bluenose something or other"? I'm betting these other posters are correct, in which case I have seen this behaviour before where you show great amounts of dishonesty/stupidity.

...so I don't feel compelled at all to clarify myself to you. If I feel like engaging with you at all, it will be to point out your dishonesty or your hypocrisy or your stupidity.

.... like for instance the dishonesty at the very top of this thread claiming that Tesla's solar tiles are cheaper than regular roofing. Do you feel any necessity to refute the claim made in your very first post?... come on, surprise the hell out of all of us.


gtomustang:

for some people, solar is worth a look-see.

I've often thought about getting off the grid. Love the idea of having no monthly payments (except phone... and probably internet). Living where I do, wind power always felt like it'd be the better bet to get me through the winter. The main problem I see is cost and reliability.... and also the batteries and the amount of maintenance a large system seems to require.

30 miles west of me there is a farm alongside the highway that installed two big wind turbines about seven years ago. Driving for work, I pass by this farm usually once or twice a week. At first I was quite excited... the propellers were probably 20 ft in diameter .... wondering when they were going to start cranking out power. Once in a while, when the winds were really strong I would see one turning slowly but it was very rare. I'd ask around and the gossip I heard was that the farmer spent up to $200k on these turbines (believable... 'cause they were BIG) and they seized up in the first week. Since then he's been fighting a lawsuit... It seems to me he finally took them down a year or so ago.

^^^^and this really doesn't turn me off wind power completely... I just want to be very careful.

Do you have an electric car?.... do you have $70,000 worth of solar tiles on your roof?

....there's a very large group of people who hate Donald Trump and also seem very angry with anyone who are the least bit skeptical about global warming. If everyone who voted for Hillary Clinton actually bought solar tiles and an electric car, they could save the planet without any help from me at all.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 37
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/14/2017 8:58:29 PM

Several days ago I explained how CBS news was dishonest in a story concerning Trump's administration, the FDA, and Fox news. It was obvious. Now someone might twist themselves into knots trying to show that the possibility of CBS's claim could possibly still turn out to be true... but news organisations are not supposed to report something as fact without proof.


The story was proven to be true, sorry this still bothers you.

Maybe you can buy a bridge and get over it.





.... like for instance the dishonesty at the very top of this thread claiming that Tesla's solar tiles are cheaper than regular roofing. Do you feel any necessity to refute the claim made in your very first post?... come on, surprise the hell out of all of us.


The fact that you do not understand that was a quote from the article just goes to show you do not understand.

Though I guess it is even stranger why you would ask me if I feel like refuting something I linked to, but maybe you do not know what refute means or you just make dumb requests.

Either way, best of luck with that.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 38
view profile
History
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/15/2017 9:16:32 AM
Message 19 ...
LOL ...
Ninety percent of the new energy sources added to Europe’s power grid in 2016 were renewable, signaling the entire continent’s commitment to clean energy, and even the poorest nations in the world have pledged to transition to renewables.

Hmmm ... that won't be happening here anytime soon. Trump is dedicated to destroying our farmlands, waterways, air and ocean ... everything that can sustain life is of no concern to Trump. Unless Trump or his cohorts can make money off of something, it won't be allowed here in the US.

Kasich (Ohio) also shut down a big possibility of renewable energy for Ohio when he took office ... because he's been bought out by the coal industry. (So glad he can't be re-elected!) No clue how the future election for governor here will go, just hope it won't be someone with a price on their head like the current governor. (And some folks though that would be presidential?)
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 39
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/15/2017 4:01:26 PM
"I've often thought about getting off the grid....at first I was excited...I heard gossip...I just want to be careful"

>>>nothing wrong with being careful. I heard rumors about certain pickup trucks (early generation Dodge Rams) but I still went out and bought pickups...and the one I drive now I got for free when my father died, so when it goes i'm replacing it with the free car I got when my mother died. Can't beat free :) But were I in the market....

Coal exists in the political swing states.

Inventions are a tough matter. My father had a personal computer business back in the late 1960's, and trying to get companies to buy one to do the work of their employees didn't work. Now we have cellphones to do all that and we think nothing of it.
 gbntbedtyr
Joined: 5/17/2011
Msg: 40
view profile
History
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/18/2017 7:17:03 AM
LOLTrump, we don't have a storage problem, we have a Greed problem. Edison Batteries typically last over a hundred years, made of only simple Nickle, Iron, n liquefied Pot Ash (Potassium).
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 41
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/18/2017 9:19:53 AM

Inventions are a tough matter. My father had a personal computer business back in the late 1960's, and trying to get companies to buy one to do the work of their employees didn't work. Now we have cellphones to do all that and we think nothing of it.


That reminds me of the time when calculators first came out. Math teachers at the school I went to didn't want students using calculators to solve math problems, because they said a calculator takes all of the thinking out of solving a math problem. They wanted kids to figure out what formula is needed to solve a problem, then do the multiply, divide, add and subtract by long hand. Calculators were scary technology to teachers, and they saw nothing wrong with maintaining the same material from the early 1900's. They thought calculators were going to turn people into zombies who just punch in numbers.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 42
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/18/2017 12:05:04 PM

LOLTrump, we don't have a storage problem, we have a Greed problem. Edison Batteries typically last over a hundred years, made of only simple Nickle, Iron, n liquefied Pot Ash (Potassium).


The issue is not how long they last, but the amount of energy they can store relative to their footprint.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 43
view profile
History
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/23/2017 2:04:07 PM
gtomustang:

Ronald Reagan, the man who tore solar panels off the White House

On a radio program I was listening to yesterday an interviewer was talking to David Suzuki (Canada's Al Gore). The interviewer brought up Jimmy Carter's name and Suzuki jumped on this "You know, Jimmy Carter had solar panels installed at the White House and the first thing Ronald Reagan did after taking office was to remove them".

^^^^.... except this is a lie. It was 1986 when the panels were removed to resurface the White House roof. I seriously doubt that Reagan was showing any malice towards Carter (or solar energy in general) when he oked for the panels not to be reinstalled (it occurs to me that he had very little input here at all... someone made recommendations and he signed off on them). I can think of lots of reasons to remove these panels.... being mounted on the roof would have caused leaks.... old technology batteries were crapping out continuously.... having a White House staffer being paid $30,000 a year to maintain a system that would save $300 in electricity... etcetera.

...but the narrative that Reagan was an evil s.o.b. and he wanted to screw the environment is what we are told, and this is what people keep repeating.

Why would it be necessary to ask people to believe lies, and then repeat those lies?... I'm guessing that some people feel that lying about this subject is completely acceptable.... the ends justify the means. Do you feel this way?
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 44
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/23/2017 4:34:29 PM

..but the narrative that Reagan was an evil s.o.b. and he wanted to screw the environment is what we are told, and this is what people keep repeating.


Great point, as clearly this is all made up:


1983: Mass resignation of EPA officials

When President Reagan took office in 1981, his first initiatives were to override much of the Carter environmental agenda. Reagan, much like Ford before him, appeared to be obsessed with eliminating regulation in government altogether. He was equally as obsessed with deregulating the EPA. Reagan questioned the legitimacy of the agency as an independent authority. Critics argued that the Reagan program illegally delayed the promulgation of EPA regulations, "subverted statutory standards, and excluded the public from full participation in the regulatory process. More notably, these and other criticisms eventually culminated in an atmosphere of scandal that surrounded the Reagan EPA, a controversy that eventually led to the mass resignation of EPA officials in 1983.

1983: Extended sovereign control 200 miles off US coast

In March 1983, in a little-noticed but historic act, President Reagan issued a proclamation confirming American sovereign rights and control over all living and nonliving resources within 200 miles of US coasts--a staggering addition to our natural patrimony of some 2 million square miles, or about 4 billion acres. The seabeds we now control and the ocean above are an unopened treasure house. Our new offshore domains could become a Louisiana Purchase of the 21st century.

Reagan's actions were a sound alternative to the ill-considered 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. This UN proposal would create a socialistic system of control and regulation of the seas. It embodies an outmoded 1970s view of the world. Reagan would not approve the convention. If the nation is to realize the full potential of President Reagan's vision, we must create a forward-looking oceans policy that recognizes our many and complicated interests.


Dismissed acid rain proposals as burdensome to industry

[Reagan’s EPA director] was dismayed by Reagan’s cavalier dismissal of the importance of acid rain, which had destroyed fish and plant life in thousands of American and Canadian lakes and streams. During the 1970s it had become an issue in Canada, which objected to the pollution originating in US smokestacks in the Midwest and deposited in Canadian forests and lakes. Reagan had promised Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau during a 1981 visit that he would honor the [agreement which Trudeau had negotiated with Pres. Carter, which required] vigorous enforcement of anti-pollution standards.

After three years of much talk and little action, the EPA wanted Reagan to make a major budget commitment to reducing the causes of acid rain. The EPA’s proposal was assailed as wasteful government spending by Reagan’s OMB and was rejected by Reagan, who questioned the scientific evidence on the causes of acid rain and was reluctant to impose additional restrictions on industry.


Western enviro ethic: pro-development, common-sense

Reagan did not share fears that he would be damaged by environmental issues. He believed he brought a common sense view to environmental issues that was widely shared by Americans. He always considered himself an “environmentalist,” a word he defined so loosely that he applied the term to James Watt as well. Left to his own devices, Reagan rarely thought about the environment in political terms.


CA established CWA and OSHA, but over Reagan's objections

CARTER: Reagan blames regulations--[but those regulations] affect health and safety, and protect the purity of our air & water. We cannot cast aside those regulations.

REAGAN: That is a misstatement of my position. For Mr. Carter to suggest that I want to do away with the safety laws and with the laws that pertain to clean water and clean air, and so forth: as Governor of California, I took charge of passing the strictest air quality law that has ever been adopted in the US. And we created an OSHA, an occupational safety and health agency, for the protection of employees before the Federal Government had one in place. I am suggesting that there are literally thousands of unnecessary regulations.

CARTER: The air pollution standard laws that were passed in California were passed over the objections of Governor Reagan. Also, recently, when someone suggested that OSHA should be abolished, Governor Reagan responded, "Amen."


www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Ronald_Reagan_Environment.htm




Why would it be necessary to ask people to believe lies, and then repeat those lies?


Maybe you should ask yourself that, as that's what you seem to be doing.




I'm guessing that some people feel that lying about this subject is completely acceptable.... the ends justify the means.


Good question, so did you actually not know that Reagan was anti-environment, or where you just trying to spread more lies?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 45
view profile
History
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/23/2017 5:04:34 PM

Critics argued that the Reagan program illegally delayed the promulgation of EPA regulations, "subverted statutory standards, and excluded the public from full participation in the regulatory process.

I suppose an idiot might see a sentence like this and believe that there is clear proof being provided of SOMETHING....

...anyhow...

..... do you want to take David Suzuki's side here?... was he not lying?


In the first post of this thread was it an endorsement of the following article when you wrote:

This is the future, not coal.

Now that it's been shown to you how the article is a lie, are you going to pull that endorsement?.... my bet is no.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 46
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/23/2017 5:58:53 PM

I suppose an idiot might see a sentence like this and believe that there is clear proof being provided of SOMETHING....


Correct, you are to take one sentence out of a couple of paragraphs and try and nit pick it apart and ignore everything else that refutes your claim.




..... do you want to take David Suzuki's side here?... was he not lying?


Did Reagan remove the panels?

If the answer is yes than he is not lying.

Now, to be able to comment on anything else, I would need to see the transcript.

I think much of what you are missing about the panels on the roof of the WhiteHouse is that it is somewhat of a symbolic gesture / primer for the rest of the country and Reagan's choice not to upgrade and replace them only goes to show how far ahead of his time Carter was.





Now that it's been shown to you how the article is a lie, are you going to pull that endorsement?.... my bet is no.


I went back through and could not find anything, so maybe help me out, which post has shown that the future is not solar and is coal?
 congupnaroad
Joined: 7/22/2015
Msg: 47
view profile
History
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/23/2017 7:19:54 PM

The fact that you do not understand that was a quote from the article just goes to show you do not understand.

Though I guess it is even stranger why you would ask me if I feel like refuting something I linked to, but maybe you do not know what refute means or you just make dumb requests.

Either way, best of luck with that


Because here in Australia we have had domestic solar panels since before you born, well they have become popular in the last ten years. An Aussie company crunched the numbers and concluded that the Tesla solar tiles would be about 1.5 to 2 times more expensive than to have a regular roof with solar panels attached.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 48
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/23/2017 7:46:05 PM
Since we're mentioning Reagan and the EPA, didya know Neil Gorsuch's mom ran it into the ground under Reagan?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/02/01/neil-gorsuchs-mother-once-ran-the-epa-it-was-a-disaster/?utm_term=.eb9e2fe4df63

coincidences sure are funny.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 49
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/23/2017 9:10:46 PM

Because here in Australia we have had domestic solar panels since before you born, well they have become popular in the last ten years. An Aussie company crunched the numbers and concluded that the Tesla solar tiles would be about 1.5 to 2 times more expensive than to have a regular roof with solar panels attached.


So you are saying that because a country had the foresight to see the future energy demands would be in solar and wind they have been able to create enough demand for their product they are now considerably cheaper.

That said, do you have a link to this?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 50
view profile
History
raise the roof, people.
Posted: 5/23/2017 9:49:31 PM

Correct, you are to take one sentence out of a couple of paragraphs and try and nit pick it apart and ignore everything else that refutes your claim.

I didn't nitpick anything.... if I had the time or inclination I COULD nitpick every part of that article apart.

I chose that one sentence because it was representative of everything else in the article... ie: Reagan's critics are critical of Reagan. Did you read the rest of it?... do you actually believe it provides any proof that would back your claim?

NOW... if David Suzuki had been telling the truth, and the first thing Reagan did was to take down the solar panels.... well that would be compelling evidence that could bolster your claim.

Did Reagan remove the panels?

If the answer is yes than he is not lying.

Now this is why you aren't worth my time.

Suzuki said he took them down as one of his first acts. A lie. Admit it's a lie and move on.
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