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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles      Home login  
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 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 51
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Tesla releases details of its solar roof tilesPage 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
One thing to add, though for putting it on a mortgage. How much is $53,500 (assuming I pay $15,500 in cash that I'll get back post-taxes) going to cost monthly on a mortgage? How much is my added "electric bill"? As said before, it does add to the value of the house. The mortgage might be a smart option. After all, you are "mortgaging" ie "renting" electricity services from another place right now, right?

$259/mo over a 30 year mortgage @4.1%. About $110/mo INCREASE in your "electric bill"... BUT 3 happy factors:
- That's tax deductible. Say you get about 33% back -- So that's really about $73/mo more...
- Add selling electricity back in this sunny place, that knocks it down to me losing about $50/mo instead...
- Over 30 years, electricity prices / inflation climbs -- but my mortgage does not (hence interest rates). So really, it's Kicking It Off at $50/mo lost per month, as over a long period of time, the assumed standard $150/mo electric bill if I didn't have this would increase.

And of course, the increased price of the home if I Don't stay there for 30 years -- is that worth, the say, $40/mo extra on average extra I'd pay over time for normal electricity, by the time I sell it? Possibly.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 52
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/24/2017 5:54:41 AM

I didn't nitpick anything.... if I had the time or inclination I COULD nitpick every part of that article apart.


Cool story bro.




Now this is why you aren't worth my time.

Suzuki said he took them down as one of his first acts. A lie. Admit it's a lie and move on.


If Reagan removed the solar panels it is not a lie.

Not sure why you are unable to understand that part, but it is clear why you cannot defend it, as it is a true statement.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


TESLA ROOF:
$69,000 full install
- $15,500 Tax Credit (if you're getting Any roof on 2,600 sq ft roof; your income's enough to get $ back)
= $53,500 out of your pocket come tax season


Did you base the cost of the roof estimating the whole roof would have solar tiles?

If so, why?
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 53
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Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/24/2017 6:19:37 AM
^^^^^^...'kay, I'm done... got no time for this waste of skin.


norwegianguy456:

First, 2,600 square feet is HUGE for a roof. I mean, that's a Good sized house -- but a ranch with no (furnished) square feet to count in the basement? Yuge, I tell ya. :

Not really. A home with 1800 square feet (say 1300 for the house and 500 for the attached garage) with 2' overhangs and a 6-12 pitch would have close to 2500 square feet on it's roof.

....not that it really matters. A roof with less square footage is going to produce less electricity and should take just as long to pay for itself.

TESLA ROOF:
$69,000 full install
- $15,500 Tax Credit (if you're getting Any roof on 2,600 sq ft roof; your income's enough to get $ back)
= $53,500 out of your pocket come tax season

... is this the way tax credits work?... I had thought it would be the same as a tax write-off in which case a person would only expect to see a certain percentage of that $15,500 in savings. Maybe 20 to 30 percent?

$259/mo over a 30 year mortgage @4.1%. About $110/mo INCREASE in your "electric bill"... BUT 3 happy factors:
- That's tax deductible. Say you get about 33% back -- So that's really about $73/mo more...

Again, I'm not sure about your calculations here. From my understanding of a tax deduction, you would only be able to write off the interest paid on the mortgage, which would not work out to anywhere near $73/mo in savings.

And of course, the increased price of the home if I Don't stay there for 30 years -- is that worth, the say, $40/mo extra on average extra I'd pay over time for normal electricity, by the time I sell it? Possibly.

Factoring in any increase to the resale of the house would be a mistake in my view.... if the roof was 30 years old and the warranty is expired I don't imagine you'd be adding any value to the home. A roof that was 15 yrs old would at best add $35,000 value to the home.

....BUT.... if people here are correct, and the price of this technology drops.... lets say 50% drop in 15 years. In this scenario a brand new roof for that house would be $34,500... if this is the case your 15 yr old roof that you bought for $69,000 is significantly devalued.

(if living in sunny area).

This is quite important... anywhere where people would expect to see snow on their roof would probably not want this type of system. Purplerider mentioned in his post about the efficiency of these tiles decreasing significantly when dirty... I suspect he's right about that.

People, on a large scale, won't pay for this type of roof to be chic... they'll be doing it to save money. Breaking even after 30 years will not appeal to most of them... breaking even after 20 will still seem risky to most...

....especially if they were told right from the start that this type of roof was cheaper than shingles... people might not put a lot of trust in a company that uses advertising like that.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 54
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/24/2017 6:38:21 AM

^^^^^^...'kay, I'm done... got no time for this waste of skin.


Well when you got nothing but derp and can not back up your claim, that is probably the best thin to do.





Not really. A home with 1800 square feet (say 1300 for the house and 500 for the attached garage) with 2' overhangs and a 6-12 pitch would have close to 2500 square feet on it's roof.


and unless your house can rotate, you would be a complete retard to put solar tiles on 100% of it.





....especially if they were told right from the start that this type of roof was cheaper than shingles... people might not put a lot of trust in a company that uses advertising like that.


It is not cheaper than shingles, it is cheaper than tiles.

If you do not understand the difference between the two you really should educate yourself before you comment.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 55
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Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/30/2017 2:19:59 AM

... is this the way tax credits work?... I had thought it would be the same as a tax write-off in which case a person would only expect to see a certain percentage of that $15,500 in savings. Maybe 20 to 30 percent?

My thought it being "up to" $15,500 in tax credit was meaning the whole $69k cost is tax deductible -- but only up until the point that it'd give you $15.5k back on your taxes. Obviously a low-middle class person, even with it fully deductible wouldn't get $15.5k as so much was already written off anyway, but a well-off person would (who has a house that size). But yeah, if that just means $15.5k is deductible from your income to claim on taxes -- then it's not too much of a deal. :)

But on another type of solar credit, it was explained here:

The federal solar tax credit, also known as the investment tax credit (ITC), allows you to deduct 30 percent of the cost of installing a solar energy system from your federal taxes. The ITC applies to both residential and commercial systems, and there is no cap on its value. Thanks to the ITC, the average EnergySage Solar Marketplace shopper saved nearly $9,000 on the cost of going solar in 2015.

So if the average person saved $9k on going solar-panel with their house -- and all it was was a deduction from the amt of income to Be taxed, at say, 25% tax , and again, it's only 30% of the COST, that would mean the average person's cost for a solar setup would have been $120k, which is obviously not the price for an average solar setup.

By your position that it's just merely tax-deductible...
$120k Solar Panel Cost & Installation
30% of that = $36,000 (deductible from income tax)
25% of That = $9,000 (how much you get back from your taxes)

From my understanding of a tax deduction, you would only be able to write off the interest paid on the mortgage, which would not work out to anywhere near $73/mo in savings.

Yeah, I was assuming unlike a mortgage on a house being interest-only, that the whole monthly payments would be. Which wouldn't be true if you're also getting a tax deduction on the whole price at the same time separately. But if it's only of the interest -- which yeah, you point out it sure seems to be -- it's not that much back, although on a 30yr mortgage of said new expensive roof, a majority of the payment is interest and not the house itself for the first many months.

Factoring in any increase to the resale of the house would be a mistake in my view.... if the roof was 30 years old and the warranty is expired I don't imagine you'd be adding any value to the home. A roof that was 15 yrs old would at best add $35,000 value to the home.

I said if you Don't stay there 30 years (after putting it on), meaning the roof wasn't 30 years old. It would add value to it even if the price of said type of roofs drop VS a regular one, but yeah, not as much, say, 12 years later when you can get them for $45k instead of around $69k. But the point is, it still adds value, it being a more valuable type of roof... and you didn't pay the full (overpriced) price to begin with. But how much of that you didn't have to pay is the real key.

People, on a large scale, won't pay for this type of roof to be chic... they'll be doing it to save money.

I think when you're in the costs-too-much / introductory phase of things like this where society hasn't adapted/adopted (yet) -- it's popular motive is to be chic + convenience ("Oh, power went out for you? Not for me..."). But I agree -- breaking even after even 15 years when selling the house isn't a big motive, but some will do it. Or making/saving money after 20 on something, after having to put a lot of money down... yeah, that isn't a motivator for many.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 56
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/30/2017 3:32:43 AM
"""Tax credits are subtracted not from taxable income, but directly from a person’s tax liability; they therefore reduce taxes dollar for dollar. As a result, credits have the same value for everyone who can claim their full value.""""

which is different from

""""The (tax) deduction reduces tax liability by the amount of the deduction times the filer’s marginal tax rate, and is thus worth more to taxpayers in higher brackets. For example, a $10,000 deduction reduces taxes by $1,500 for people in the 15 percent tax bracket, whereas the same deduction cuts taxes by $3,500 for those in the 35 percent tax bracket."""""

Tax Policy Center
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 57
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 5/30/2017 5:56:15 AM
norwegianguy,

You confuse deduction with tax credit. The tax credit is a dollar for dollar reduction in the total amount of tax due, and if it's a refundable tax credit, which the Residential Renewable Energy Tax Credit is, then you can get back that portion of the credit that is in excess of your taxes.

For example: A $100,000 solar system (way more than they cost for residential purposes)-and your federal tax bill (for income received) is $12,000. You get a:
$30,000 tax credit
your $12,000 taxes go to
$0 and you get a refund of
$18,000
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 58
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 6/23/2017 5:16:34 AM
so, Purplerider and 427Cammer, you've heard Trump say now that the Mexico border wall is in fact going to be made of solar cells...that a solar cell wall will offset the cost of building the wall. Now that you've heard this...what's your opinion of solar cells? Is Trump and the liberals right? Is Trump wrong and you're right? Also, what is all this free power going to do the the coal industry?

Seriously, I want to hear your opinions on this. Is Trump giving the tax payer a boondoggle?
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 59
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 6/23/2017 6:54:14 AM
As much as I am for solar this is clearly another bamboozal from tRump.

As the practicality of not just installing a wall, but a wall that collects solar power combines with a grid to support the push of the power is dumber than the idea of just a wall.

Mostly due to the fact that a wall is a vertical surface and solar needs to be on a horizontal one to be the most effective.
 The_Pearl
Joined: 2/7/2017
Msg: 60
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 6/23/2017 6:59:39 AM

As much as I am for solar this is clearly another bamboozal from tRump.

Agree.....I believe the cost of a solar wall would be very costly.
Did the Mexicans agree to that...haha?
More B.S. talk....
 from site to sight
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 61
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 6/23/2017 7:43:06 AM

“We’re thinking about building the wall as a solar wall so it creates energy and pays for itself,” Trump said at a rally Wednesday night in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. “And this way, Mexico will have to pay much less money. And that’s good, right?”


So Trump is still going on about Mexico paying for the wall, even after they said no to that idea. The only way they will contribute anything is if they get the power from the solar panels. But of course, Trump wouldn't go for that. The sun belongs to the U.S., so any solar power is American. It's just more B.S. from Trump to make it look like he's concerned about the average person, without having to do anything. Otherwise, why would he make that kind of statement without knowing how much it's going to cost, asking the Mexicans if they would go in on the deal, where the power would be distributed, etc.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 62
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 6/23/2017 8:12:45 AM
the other joke is, which country has invested a lot in building solar cells and leads the world in its production?

(hint: The GOP doesn't exist there to block it)

Make Someone Else's Economy Great Again!

You are right, S2S, chump seems to be bringing up Mexico again, knowing its the perfect raw meat to create deflection from his failures. No wonder John loves Chump so much, its the deflection!

Still, I would just love for the anti-solar experts to tell us what they really think about chump and his plan to solarize the border. They have to have an opinion on it, and i'd like to hear it and whatever argument they have to support it.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 63
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 6/29/2017 6:02:39 AM

(hint: The GOP doesn't exist there to block it)


Here is what they are doing in the USA.


Hot mic records troubling conversation about solar regulations
By TOM LUTEY tlutey@billingsgazette.com Jun 27, 2017

Published on Jun 26, 2017

Montana Public Service Commissioner Bob Lake was caught on a hot mic acknowledging that cuts made to rates and contracts offered to small renewable energy contracts will likely stifle future development. By federal law, the commission's actions were supposed to promote renewable energy.


https://youtu.be/Q1YO2sXa8wU
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 64
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Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 7/1/2017 8:02:50 PM
I don't think much of the idea, of getting electric power off solar panels.

One not so great thing about creating electric off solar, is how much toxic waste is created along with the just the making of the panel. Toxic sludge that contains cadmium and chromium. Makes me wonder how much cost is added to the final price of the panel. Then, you have a disposal issue associated with that non-working panel. Landfills frown on accepting toxic waste.

Now, Tesla is trying to sell these solar roof panels. Since I'm a contractor, I'm looking at the actual quality of the roof. First thing that come to my mind- is leaks. Just a casual guess says one does not just climb up on their roof with a tube of silicone, and smear a big glob of caulking on the hole. Chances are, laying out some sort of scaffold just to get to the leak is going to be costly. I'll take a wild guess that these are hooked up JUST like a string of christmas lights. A panel shorts out, a section stops working, and you get a voltage drop. Everyone I'm sure has played "Find the dead bulb'' on a non-working string of lights. Want to consider having that serviced? Betcha you'd pay at least $100-$150 an hour. (Plus parts) That cash you're saving on your electric bill will more than likely get eaten up by one service call.

Now, lets consider that this marvelous electric roof turned out to be a huge leaky mess that didn't pay for itself, and you decide to go back to good 'ol shingles. Your average roof costs about a thousand or so to tear it off. But this electric roof- now you're looking at big bucks. Those get to be taken to a specific recycler. Maybe even in another state. Ready to pay a couple bucks a mile for shipping? Since it isn't my mess to deal with, you could be charged, oh shoot, $7-12,000 bucks for removing them. Don't like my price? Tough cookies. I'm not taking a chance on getting fined for dumping toxic waste.

Ever consider that these electric shingles might De-value your real estate? For all you know, this just might make your property have all the value of a used gas station, that had leaky tanks. Whats to say that all of these lovely toxic metals will stay in those panels.
Heck, these things could turn your, and others property into the next Love Canal.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 65
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 7/2/2017 5:47:00 AM
So what do you think about Trump's proposal to solar panel the Mexico wall? Is he smart to do it on a grand scale, or is he scamming the tax payer with the scheme?
 from site to sight
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 66
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 7/2/2017 7:57:45 AM
^^^Do you mean the solar panels he thinks Mexico is going to pay for? In typical Trump logic, he thinks if Mexico doesn't want to pay for a concrete wall, he'll trick them into paying for a wall covered in solar panels.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 67
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 7/2/2017 8:42:45 AM

I don't think much of the idea, of getting electric power off solar panels.


Maybe that is because based on your excuses it is clear you have little to no understanding of them.






In order to maintain the highest quality forums you are restricted to having no more then 2 of the last 10 posts on a thread.

Since 2 of the last 10 posts are yours you can not post to this thread.
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 68
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Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 7/2/2017 4:09:26 PM
^^^^ Hey junior, It's very clear to me you don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 69
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 7/2/2017 6:19:06 PM

^^^^ Hey junior, It's very clear to me you don't know your a$$ from a hole in the ground.


Coming from a guy who calls himself a contractor and who also thinks you would fix a leak with silicone, I think it is pretty clear who here is the dummy.
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 70
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Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 7/2/2017 7:09:25 PM
You are. What is the material used in a tesla roof? Use a petroleum based tar on a Tesla roof, and it will dry out and crack inside a year.

Must be why I've been a contractor for 43 years, and all you do is fall off the ladder.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 71
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 7/2/2017 9:36:57 PM

You are. What is the material used in a tesla roof? Use a petroleum based tar on a Tesla roof, and it will dry out and crack inside a year.


They are glass tiles.

But the main question is, why you think you would need to patch anything, as it is almost like you do not understand how a tile works.





Must be why I've been a contractor for 43 years, and all you do is fall off the ladder.


Yep and you still have a 43 year old understanding of technology.

And what seems to be at best, a sh*ty handyman's understanding of roof tiles.

Only a hack would fix a leaking roof with a patch, a real contractor would know you replace the tile/s, but chances are if you do have a leak it is due to incorrect installation, or issues with ice/snow membranes.

Also the Tesla tiles have a lifetime warranty
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 72
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 7/3/2017 8:45:26 AM
Granted, i'm not a contractor who pulls dead trucks out of the junkyard to rebuild and use. But I do know cheap contractors get jobs. my last workplace hired a fellow who repaired broken sink pipes by duct-taping them, claiming they were just going to break again. property owners tend to love guys like this, who don't bother them often with big bills to do things the right way. They like to take wild-ass guesses too rather than do a little research first. Like how the whole roof doesn't necessarily need the glass tiles, depending upon sun exposure....so, we aren't talking some Love Canal leak here.

I mean, Trump wants these in his Mexico wall, and you haven't answered the question yet...is Trump boondoggling you, the tax payer? Is trump pulling a fast one on you, or does Trump just not have a clue how to build things? he is supposed to be a real estate developer, after all, but is he stupid to want this?
 from site to sight
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 73
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 7/3/2017 11:34:56 AM

...is Trump boondoggling you, the tax payer?


Trump would be boondoggling the American tax payer because a wall equipped with solar panels will cost a lot more than just a wall itself, which was deemed to be super expensive in the first place-that the American taxpayer doesn't want to foot the bill for to begin with. Then there's the additional maintenance cost of maintaining the panels. Plus there are still the issues that were a problem to begin with-encroaching on private property that straddles both countries, native Indians not wanting a wall in the middle of an Indian reserve, getting special work permits to allow American workers to be on Mexican soil and/or vice versa, etc. It's a safe bet there won't be any wall, with or without solar panels.
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 74
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 8/3/2017 8:31:33 AM
Update on the roof tiles.


Elon Musk's First Tesla Solar Roof Is Here, and It Looks Amazing
Tesla's solar powered house comes to life.

Elon Musk’s house runs on solar. The Tesla CEO made the announcement during Wednesday’s second quarter 2017 earnings call, where he revealed that both himself and Jeffrey B. Straubel, the company’s chief technology officer, have installed solar roof tiles on their houses.

“We have installed and working the Solar Roof tiles,” Musk told investors during the conference call.

Tesla started taking pre-orders for the textured black and grey smooth tile styles back in May, with U.S. orders expected to start shipping this year. Unfortunately, those that didn’t order immediately have a long wait on their hands: the tiles sold out until next year in just 16 days. The company is expected to start taking orders for the remaining Tuscan and slate styles in November, with deliveries starting next year. International orders are expected to start shipping next year.

The solar roof tiles are offered at a competitive price point. Tesla has priced them at an average of $21.85 per square foot, bringing them down to below the cost of a normal roof.



https://www.inverse.com/article/35022-elon-musk-tesla-solar-roof-photos-amazing
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 75
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History
Tesla releases details of its solar roof tiles
Posted: 8/18/2017 9:56:24 PM
gtomustang:

so, Purplerider and 427Cammer, you've heard Trump say now that the Mexico border wall is in fact going to be made of solar cells...that a solar cell wall will offset the cost of building the wall. Now that you've heard this...what's your opinion of solar cells? Is Trump and the liberals right? Is Trump wrong and you're right? Also, what is all this free power going to do the the coal industry?

Seriously, I want to hear your opinions on this. Is Trump giving the tax payer a boondoggle?

???.... why would you think I should have an opinion on this?... in my very first post in this thread I mentioned that I am in support of finding alternative energies but that I'm also wary about spending large amounts of my money gambling on the current technology.... if I lived along the US - Mexico border solar panels would be less of a gamble than up here in northern Alberta.

What Trump does or doesn't do is of very little concern to me.... we've got our own clown up here that I'm a lot more concerned with.

What are your thoughts? Would you support Trump using solar panels on the wall?

...and also... would you support Trump using protectionist policies favouring solar companies in the US?

...and you never answered when I asked for your thoughts on the oft-told lie about Reagan immediately removing solar panels from the White House roof... or the dishonesty of the article quoted in the opening post of this thread.... care to tell me your thoughts?

...and also, the answer you gave when I asked why YOU don't use an electric car wasn't very satisfactory.... I mean you're 47 yrs old and apparently you're retired?.... you can afford to risk money investing in alternative energy solutions a lot more than I can... plus... you get the added bonus of being able to tell yourself that you're saving the planet... I'm not sure that I'd believe myself if I said those kinds of things.
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