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 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 476
Men height vs women weightPage 20 of 23    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23)
Sunnie - I didn't see that in his profile so I would figure a someone posing with a dog has one, then I'd double check, no pets and go hmm. JMO tho
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 477
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Men's height vs women's weight
Posted: 8/3/2017 12:21:47 PM

I’m trying to figure out what this means.

It catches attention and makes you more clickable. Keep it. Hell, even I clicked on it, wondering if your picture even had a 'head' to it. :) It's an attention-getter, while also projecting a well-in-shape body. You'll at least get people peering in the door. Add to that, there are some gals who have their radar turned off, so you can't see that they checked out your profile.

So no, it's not #1 or #2. A bit of #4, as the "race thing" will play less of a role when you can't see their face, when one has brown skin in a summer setting.

Also remember -- thumbnails. If the gal is as tall or shorter than you, you'll come up in their thumbnails. So even though said 5'3" gal will search for guys 5'8"+, you'll still cum up in her thumbnails sometimes. But still, from what I noticed, the thumbnails go by what you've searched and have been clicking on lately -- so it seems the chances are greater that you'll come up in thumbnails if she isn't that picky about height in her search criteria (#6). But it doesn't take that many to send you a few views now and again anyway, so I couldn't rule in #6 much (unless you lived in a relatively small area).
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 478
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Posted: 8/3/2017 2:33:20 PM
"Also remember -- thumbnails. If the gal is as tall or shorter than you, you'll come up in their thumbnails. "

Lately women much taller than me have been showing up in my thumbnails. Not sure what that's about. Obviously I can't really be the person to judge #1, but I'm not so sure I agree with your assessment of #2 -- I feel like there are serious flaws with the face portion of that picture. I might try retaking it sometime after the Final 48 States trip if I can't get a better one during it.

“I understand why you don't want to take a chance on having that pic deleted. Maybe you could re-create something similar to it, without sunglasses?”

Unfortunately I probably won’t be back in Death Valley anytime soon, and hardly any other place looks like it! (Although, curiously, I had just been in a similar looking place the day before I took that picture – Bad Water Basin in Death Valley is an evaporated salt lake, and the day before I was on the shores of the Great Salt Lake, and they did look very similar. But nothing in Florida or the Midwest/Plains trip I’m about to take looks like that!)

“My first thought was the same, that he should not have a pic with a dog that is not his, but I think since it is his mother's dog, if HJ likes dogs, it is not misleading to have that pic.”

I like dogs perfectly fine, grew up on a farm with dozens of them. But because I’ve worked 70-100 hours a week most of my adult life and have lived alone that entire time, I thought it was unfair to have any pets, particularly a dog that I would never have any time to walk. That’s become less true lately since I stopped working on weekends and dealing with most major hobbies, but quite frankly, I don’t see how this can continue, so doesn’t seem like a good idea to get a dog with such volatility to my schedule.

My mother’s other dog died a few weeks ago. He was 13 (the dog in the picture is half that age). Even though I only saw him about once or twice a year and lived 500 miles away, he still felt like my dog as well since I had known him for so long, and I somewhat dread going home in a couple of weeks for the first time since he died, because it will be very sad there without him.
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 479
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Posted: 8/3/2017 2:57:23 PM

............it will be very sad there without him.


HJ, So sorry to hear of the loss, in your family.
There is a movie of 2 dogs and a cat. I cried the first time and each time. Our pets love us, unlike any human ever could.
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 480
Men height vs women weight
Posted: 8/3/2017 3:42:18 PM

interesting observations, I've always felt a pretty face can make up for a multitude of sins (tho it seems for men, a great rack can accomplish the same thing). I've seen pretty women with "a few extra pounds" who still caught attention if their face was clearly seen.


Sure this can be true for me when a woman is literally a few pounds overweight. But there have been plenty of times when I saw a woman with pretty face and later lost interest when a I saw a full body shot of her. Often because she was significantly overweight or obese.
 Mister0Independent
Joined: 7/2/2017
Msg: 481
Men height vs women weight
Posted: 8/3/2017 4:15:04 PM
Yeah, it's not polite to ask a lady her weight but it's not considered rude to ask a man his height. I think the reason for that might be that weight can be changed and height can't be. Obesity may reflect lifestyle, but height is entirely genetic.
 2ufo2
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 482
Men height vs women weight
Posted: 8/3/2017 7:58:10 PM
Actually, height is not entirely genetic - only about 75%.

There are genetic factors in both obesity and in height as well as lifestyle factors.
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 483
Men height vs women weight
Posted: 8/4/2017 9:01:38 AM
^^^^^^
Lifestyle might be a partial factor for how much shorter a person gets when they get older. But lifestyle choices probably have a bigger impact on weight than height. Overall the biggest reasons for obesity are poor diet and lack of exercise although sometimes there are other factors that contribute to people being obese.
 Mister0Independent
Joined: 7/2/2017
Msg: 484
Men height vs women weight
Posted: 8/4/2017 9:13:06 AM

Actually, height is not entirely genetic - only about 75%.

There are genetic factors in both obesity and in height as well as lifestyle factors.


My dad is short at 5'6. When I was a kid I used to drink entire cartons of milk thinking it would make me taller. I grew to 5'10. Once you reach a certain age and your spine fuses, you ain't gonna grow no more. On the other hand, you can lose weight at any age.
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 485
Men height vs women weight
Posted: 8/4/2017 9:39:40 AM
Are length & girth genetic?
 2ufo2
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 486
Men height vs women weight
Posted: 8/4/2017 9:43:58 AM
Mister...

I'm not sure what you mean by 'spine fuses'.
The bones of the spine don't fuse together unless you undergo surgery.
 sun___flower
Joined: 5/8/2015
Msg: 487
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Posted: 8/4/2017 9:59:40 AM

But nothing in Florida or the Midwest/Plains trip I’m about to take looks like that!

I meant your pose/the camera angle, not so much the background. ;-)

But because I’ve worked 70-100 hours a week most of my adult life and have lived alone that entire time, I thought it was unfair to have any pets

Sometimes choosing to not have a dog is the more loving choice.

it will be very sad there without him

It is so hard when they are gone. I am sorry for your loss of your dog, HJ.
 Mister0Independent
Joined: 7/2/2017
Msg: 488
Men's height vs women's weight
Posted: 8/4/2017 10:39:40 AM

Mister...

I'm not sure what you mean by 'spine fuses'.
The bones of the spine don't fuse together unless you undergo surgery.


The growth plates in your bones (epiphyses) close when you reach a certain age, making further growth impossible.
 2ufo2
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 489
Men's height vs women's weight
Posted: 8/4/2017 3:58:29 PM
Ah, now I understand.

It is the individual bones (vertebrae) which fuse. Each vertebrae is pancaked between an upper and a lower epiphyseal plate which does fuse to each individual vertebrae. The spine - made of about 33 vertebrae - doesn't fuse. In fact, if the vertebrae fuse together then the spine is less flexible.

I'm not sure it's the closure of the epiphyseal plate that causes growth to stop or if they are simply correlative because the cartilage of the plate has been all used up.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 490
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Posted: 8/4/2017 7:21:12 PM
Hawking wrote:


So for 3 weeks, I had an uncropped thumbnail that received no unsolicited views but yes, it’s quite possible I received some stealth views during the same period. Then for 1 week, I had a cropped thumbnail that received 10 unsolicited views – and probably some more stealth views to boot. If you assume 2 out of 3 women are working in stealth mode, then maybe the cropped picture actually received 30 total unsolicited views (10 visible, 20 stealth), whereas the uncropped picture received, uh, 0? (2 X 0 = 0). Point is, even taking stealth views into consideration, I received many more views with the headless thumbnail vs. the exact same one that showed my face, in a much shorter period of time. That’s statistically significant.



By far the most successful picture I've had on Tinder (as far as getting matches) is the one with the dog --


Have you tested the results of posting headless guy holding a headless dog? Also the other combinations of a guy and a dog with a head, and beheaded. Hopefully you could fend off the PETA uproar.

After all, maybe dog is headless man's best friend. Or could it be headless dog is headless man's best friend. (?)

In the attached-dating world....and other lowly spheres of dating where sneaking around is paramount......headless photos are very common. For obvious reasons. Whenever I see a headless photo here on POF, ........ where pure, innocent, honest, earnest, loyal, faithful ..and SINGLE.......daters rule the day....I automatically think it's some scoundrel, or scoundrelette (is that a word?)....looking for some side fun. Thus I click on it. Maybe that's what led to the curiosity and thus the clicks on your headless thumbnail.

I do believe, though, you really need to concentrate on another venue for dating, Hawking. You seem like an interesting person who would be interesting to talk to IRL...and thus interesting to some woman out there.
 ThroatLozenge
Joined: 3/2/2016
Msg: 491
Men's height vs women's weight
Posted: 8/5/2017 7:42:11 AM
I think going headless is to miss out on one of life's greatest pleasures
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 492
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Posted: 10/3/2017 4:02:47 PM
My “headless” experiment ended up going on a lot longer than I had planned.

Shortly after my last POF post about 2 months ago, I zipped off to South Carolina for the Great American Eclipse (which was an otherworldly, borderline religious experience – I would highly recommend everyone do the next one in 7 years, though you might want to avoid the Great American Traffic Jam afterwards we dealt with for like 24 hours on our way home), then within a couple days of returning home from that, headed off to Chicago to begin my final Wild West driving trip that covered over 3000 miles through mostly dangerous wilderness (I’m talking about the Dakotas, not Chicago) and climaxed with me visiting my 48th contiguous state. Almost immediately after I returned to Florida, I was met by Irma (after just barely missing Harvey in Arkansas), and the next couple of weeks was all about surviving and helping other people survive, as power was gone for quite a while and in my brother’s words “some things just weren’t were they used to be anymore” (though I still contend Opal is the worst hurricane I've been in). And during it all, I was having to deal with one of my best friends’ cancer diagnosis (announced literally right before I left for the eclipse) and treatment (we are very optimistic!). Basically I had the 5 most hardcore weeks ever, including not sleeping for almost 48 straight hours on 3 different occasions.

So, yeah, I didn’t give that much thought to POF, dating website OR forums during that period. But now that things have finally calmed down and sort of returned to normal (except for the cancer), I log in to the forums to see nothing much has changed among you crazy SOBs, and log in to my dating profile to have my mind blown.

So let me reiterate: I very rarely logged into the site since mid-August and haven’t sent a single message. Despite this, I’ve accumulated 72 new views during that time, or over 10 a week. Compare this to mid-April through July, when with a variety of pictures as my default (including the current one, WITH the head), I had just 24 views (or 2 a week), despite being fairly active on the site, including sending out a decent amount of messages. Again, these latter pathetic statistics include 3 weeks of using my current main profile picture, except with my head in the thumbnail.

Once again, I must revisit why this would be. I offered my original theories in post #467 (page 19). Given this new data, my revised conclusions:

1 I previously suggested race might factor in it. I’m now nearly 100% sure that’s the case. In that 72 views are about the same number of black women that normally would click on my profile unsolicited during a 2 month or so period, but white women have been clicking at much more than 5 times their normal rate (Hispanic women are also much higher). Because I’m fairly light-skinned and you can’t tell what race I am from my headless thumbnail, apparently many white women in this not-THAT-progressive Southern market have clicked on my profile thinking I might be white or Hispanic and were likely unpleasantly surprised to see my face.

2 Up until this experiment, I had assumed most women used advanced search on this site and my height was preventing me from getting as many unsolicited views as my taller male counterparts. Although I’m still sure my height is partially responsible for my dismal lifetime OLD success rate, it makes no sense that any profile I’ve had would be getting 10+ unsolicited views a week at my real height if women were using advanced search on a regular basis to filter out “undesirable” men. Yeah, maybe if I had the exact same profile but used 6 foot as my height, I might be getting 20+ or even 50+ unsolicited views a week, but I’m fine with 10+, because that’s 500 options over the course of a year (many of them quite attractive to me). Comparatively, while using an array of main profile pics, at one point in 2015 I went 6 straight months without a single unsolicited view. That’s NO options. Point is, maybe height isn’t necessarily as detrimental-by-design on this (and most other sites) as I had long thought. Some other guy my height with a different head might get as many views or even more views than I did.

3 I still say it's inconclusive as to whether women are as superficial as men when it comes to bodies, but, come on -- 72 women clicked on a headless rockin' body! That's got to say something!

4 Your main profile pic matters A LOT. Not that I didn’t already know this, but seriously, far more than I have ever imagined. Over the past few years, any picture that clearly showed my face got very few views. By far my 2 most successful main profile pictures besides this one were another muscular tank top picture but on the beach and from a greater distance and the exotic-looking Mexican distant shot still on my profile that required clicking on the thumbnail to clearly see my face – but neither one of those were even in the same ballpark of popularity as the current one. Apparently your thumbnail pops up in a lot of random places on the site for people to click on, not just on a list from advanced search that many get filtered out of. So long as you have an intriguing main profile pic, it would seem you can overcome having a bunch of negative searchable characteristics to get profile views.

5 Maybe logging on frequently doesn’t matter as much as I thought it did. Again, I barely logged on at all during all that chaos and still got 72 unsolicited views – back during my “must prevent 10 years of datelessness” blitz during the winter/spring, I was logging in dozens of times a day to send messages, yet got only a couple dozen unsolicited views (but dozens of solicited views from women I messaged).

6 I am indeed one ugly MF. And apparently a very uninteresting dude (despite all the world-tripping and exotic pictures I have -- what do you guys think of the new ones like the Badlands and the new dog pic?). There is really no other explanation for 72 unsolicited views in such a short amount of time... and no messages from any of those viewing. Not a single one. Women are intrigued enough by my body to take a chance clicking on a headless main profile pic, but once they get to my profile and see my face, my height and what I’ve written, they’re like: NO... F-ING... WAY. And move on. I remember reading posts from those rare successful POF guys like Clooney’s Tutor discussing getting about 10 unsolicited messages a week – I’m now getting enough views a week that if all of them sent me messages, I’d also have 10 unsolicited messages a week. But not a single one, not the black women, not the obese women, not the 5-kids-women, much less the significant number of attractive, fit, educated, professional women thought I was worth messaging after clicking on my profile. I’d like to think it’s a badly written profile, and I’d certainly be familiar with it being my height. But given that almost no women clicked on my profile when I had the same pic but a visible face, I’m going to have to say that there is a very strong chance that it’s mostly because I’m one ugly MF (with the related race thing partially contributing). Yeah, I know – I’ve had quite a few female friends, one ex-girlfriend and a handful of female forumites tell me otherwise. But statistics don’t lie. Do they?

I’m so glad to be back in this life-sucking hellhole.

(I got 3 new views during the time I spent writing this post. And no messages.)
 ThePigOfYourDreams
Joined: 6/30/2017
Msg: 493
Men height vs women weight
Posted: 10/3/2017 4:53:39 PM

But statistics don’t lie. Do they?


They don't necessarily tell the whole story, though.

Get out of your head and on to a dance floor. Things will change.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 494
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Posted: 10/3/2017 5:12:39 PM

I log in to the forums to see nothing much has changed among you crazy SOBs

You haven't noticed us all saying sweet nothings to each other? What? ;)

and log in to my dating profile to have my mind blown.

Well, it'd be even better if your other head would... ;)

72 new views during that time, or over 10 a week.

That's very good. Especially since much of that, you haven't been online "this week" either. Very good.

1 I previously suggested race might factor in it. I’m now nearly 100% sure that’s the case.

Factor into it? Yeah, with everyone -- getting action or being a virtual virgin. But is it the whole she-bang[s]? Not so fast, my friend...

Although I’m still sure my height is partially responsible for my dismal lifetime OLD success rate

I think this is your #1 hold-back, yes. It's no mere hypothesis. Shouldn't mean ZERO over a long period of time though, if your own tastes aren't too high.

Yeah, maybe if I had the exact same profile but used 6 foot as my height, I might be getting 20+ or even 50+ unsolicited views a week, but I’m fine with 10+

If you had 6 foot as your height, you'd get initial messages on top of it.

So long as you have an intriguing main profile pic, it would seem you can overcome having a bunch of negative searchable characteristics to get profile views.

Yes, it is a Big Key, your main pic. And what you just said, hit the nail on the (missing) head. I'll get to that in a sec.

Maybe logging on frequently doesn’t matter as much as I thought it did.

Yeah, I think that is the one surprising thing that came out of it, assuming thru your cell you weren't marked as online thru accidently clicking on "picks of the week", then closing it or whatever.

I am indeed one ugly MF.

No, that's not it, sorry. Hate to burst your bubble, but you wouldn't make it very far in auditions for that contest. Guys uglier than you, with even less than the effort you've put in over the years, POF-a$$ (granted, not a$$-quality to brag about I'm sure, but you get the point).

There is really no other explanation for 72 unsolicited views in such a short amount of time

Yes there is. You alluded to it in your last sentence in #4:

You have a unique main pic. You have a headless pic. It's going to make them click on it. It's human nature. It's a Good thing. Now, freeze-frame. With your body/build, most are going to be thinking you're at least average height if not tall. OH. 5'4"? Probably why you got no initial messages -- although those are hard to come by, by any average Joe anyway. Yes, your race seen there -- yeah, nixes some of course. No drinking? Yeah, that too.

But the good news is, you don't know how many Would have written you IF in a parallel universe it was the "girl's job" to initially write guys. Many of them were due to the Mystery of a missing head. But it made them look at your profile. Attention. I'd keep it that way. And I'd write the gals who viewed your profile -- you very well may get some responses. There's already a familiarity to it, which eeks up your odds.

If you're wondering whether you're an ugly MF: Put your height at 6 foot, and put "Socially" for drinking. And keep the headless main pic. See what happens then. You'll be talking to girls in no time. You'll go from Views -> Conversations covered. Then you'll need some super-tall boots and a case of O'Douls with false labels to cover the meeting part. :)
 sun___flower
Joined: 5/8/2015
Msg: 495
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Posted: 10/3/2017 6:11:02 PM

I am indeed one ugly MF.

Sigh.


what do you guys think of the new ones like the Badlands and the new dog pic?

They are really good. The two Badlands ones are 'oh wow cool' shots, and you look great. The one with your mother's dog steals the show - that is clever, adorable, and precious.

But - my opinion will not matter to you, because I am not in your desired demographic.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 496
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Posted: 10/3/2017 9:57:44 PM
Dude, you are not ugly. There are indeed some ugly MFs out there, but you ain’t one of them. Pretty? No. But not ugly either.

And you are obviously intelligent, and interesting. It’s hard for me to believe how much trouble you have with dating. I still suspect that you are sabotaging yourself with your negativity.



Get out of your head and on to a dance floor. Things will change.

+1, some very good advice.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 497
as the diet commericals say, results don't lie, just interpretations
Posted: 10/4/2017 6:02:11 AM
1) Hope your friend pulls thru.

2) Were your profile visitations, women in Florida with nothing to do after the storm damage?

3) I'm not the least bit surprised by your results, I've been observing similar since I first started chasing women before 1st grade. But its like telling the dude who makes $100K a year that he's wealthy--he'll tell you how much debt he has due to his McMansion and his 3 cars. Its all a matter of perspective. The fact is, we are not designed to delete the gene pool, and we want the best in life...except when we're too drunk to make good decisions :)
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 498
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as the diet commericals say, results don't lie, just interpretations
Posted: 10/4/2017 7:09:04 AM
“Yeah, I think that is the one surprising thing that came out of it, assuming thru your cell you weren't marked as online thru accidently clicking on ‘picks of the week’, then closing it or whatever.”

I don’t have the POF app and have never logged into it at all through my phone. In fact, since I moved 4 years ago, I have not even logged into POF from home (mostly because I was tired of the forums consuming my non-working life), which means most of my log-ins are somewhere between 7A to 7P, M-F. Which makes my current level of views seem even more mind-blowing – imagine if I regularly logged in during the hours that most people use POF? But I didn’t log into POF once while on the road (over 2 weeks) or during the several days of Irma build-up/immediate recovery, yet all of the times I returned to work, I had like 10+ new views waiting. Would I have gotten 150+ total views during that period if I had been logging in regularly?

“You have a unique main pic. You have a headless pic. It's going to make them click on it. It's human nature.”

Obviously it has occurred to me a lot of these views are just the result of women trying to find out what the head looks like. What might be an interesting experiment is to use a headless thumbnail of me in a nice suit to see if ANY headless thumbnail will lead to such results or if it requires a headless “rockin’ body.” But at the moment I am reluctant to do anything other than what I’m doing now, though I’m wondering if the thumbnail is turning off women who think muscle guys are full of themselves or smart, thinking women who realize some guy is trying to trick them into clicking and refuse to play along. And what happens when I start emailing such women and they see this headless thumbnail in their inbox?

“And I'd write the gals who viewed your profile -- you very well may get some responses.”

I’m actually going to do that, with the ones I find attractive, because you are obviously correct that most women won’t take the initiative on OLD, and I’m not one of those people that automatically treats a view with no message as rejection, as I have occasionally gotten such women to write me back later. Also, I just purchased the upgrade (which is how I know all those statistics) and discovered some of those women have be viewing my profile multiple times, although to be fair, in several cases it was because they first viewed my profile before the current headless picture, then got “tricked” into viewing it again post-headless because they didn’t realize it was the same guy they previously viewed.

“They are really good. The two Badlands ones are 'oh wow cool' shots, and you look great. The one with your mother's dog steals the show - that is clever, adorable, and precious. But - my opinion will not matter to you, because I am not in your desired demographic.”

Actually, I greatly appreciate the feedback on the pictures. Several of my friends have told me I need to use the distant Badlands pic as my main (both in OLD and in general social media) though that concerns me somewhat here because of the sunglasses. But it is like impossible to take a good sunglass-less picture in the sunshine without squinting – it was 100 degrees that day (barely a month has gone by and it’s already in the 30s in South Dakota! That is a schizophrenic state). I stopped at my mother’s on the way to the South Carolina eclipse and took like a hundred pictures with that dog, and that one got by far the best reaction from my friends, because, apparently, we do have the same expression.

“I still suspect that you are sabotaging yourself with your negativity.”

And what sort of negativity do you see in this profile of 75 views but no messages?

“Hope your friend pulls thru.”

Stage 1, surgery went extremely well, no chemo prescribed – we were freaked out when the diagnosis first happened as it came out of nowhere from what she had assumed was just another cyst, but at this point her prognosis is 99% expectation she will live another 20+ years. It’s just mostly weird at this point because she is by far the closest person to me I’ve known with cancer since my childhood.

“Were your profile visitations, women in Florida with nothing to do after the storm damage?”

They were nearly all from area women, but only a handful occurred during the couple days before the storm hit and the week afterwards. In other words, if you exclude that week or so, I’d been averaging more like 12 or 13 a week. My brother and several other people I know didn’t have power for a week, and such people probably had more important things to do with their car-charged cellphones than log onto POF.
 aintnodeal
Joined: 4/10/2016
Msg: 499
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as the diet commericals say, results don't lie, just interpretations
Posted: 10/4/2017 7:30:52 AM
Interesting notes on how women reacted to your headless pic. My face has not been visible for many years, yet through the sheer power of numbers, random fate, and my incomprehensible Forum posts, I get a number of views each month, and a few messages a year.

...but...I am a person who communicates through images. I look at tons and tons and tons of photos. I think because I look at so many, I get a ton of return views.

Be Careful What You Wish For: Once you find combo of pics/details that draw in messages, you may find that all the women who write you are totally outside your Venn Diagram circle of acceptability. In my case, it seems that large biker chicks seem to like me - I have nothing in common with them. Second up - women with lots of kids or dogs, and heavy drinkers. WTF? Maybe it's that reverse-attraction thingy where when you say what you don't want, people think you're a sucker for just that thing...?

...or you could date all the obvious non-matches and work on your conversation skills...
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 500
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Men height vs women weight
Posted: 10/4/2017 9:14:20 AM
I changed my location from WA State to NY, then the height of the men changed. WA men are tall, 5'-11" to 6 ft+. NY men seem to average 5'-8". NY men have been Spanish, Italian, Irish and Jewish. WA men may be Scandinavian, Engish, German.
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