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 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 51
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Brexit? A coup de grace?Page 3 of 29    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29)
No one is claiming jo does not have the right to his views. Ive sparred th him on these forums for years. Its good to hear other views no matter who's they are.
It is also the right to put questions about peoples views. How they reached the view that they have.

As i said i read jim sillars quite a lot. On the scotleave.eu site is a pdf file. In it sillars states that in a healthy democracy you cannot blindly follow a political party with questioning the policies.

In Scotland we have a goal to head for (ill get to psychos post in a moment) in independence. The labour party in scotland took we voters for granted. Where else would voters go? Well they soon found out. Ill continue to question jo's views. Sometimes they interest me. But slavishly following the party line needs questioning. Well i think so anyway.

Psycho
Well living in Edinburgh i had the years of the disruption regarding the parliament and the trams.
Watched businesses fail due to disruption. Had many mates who made a fortune at Holyrood for sitting in the boozer.
One of my main gripes is the way public money gets thrown around like confetti on public works.
Look at the schools debacle in Edinburgh. Brand new schools falling to bits all over the town. Bricks falling onto playgrounds.
Yep it has been jaw dropping some of the incompetence we have paid for. Which is why i would welcome a collapse of the whole system. Start again. New blood. New ideas. But for now i need to bide what time i have left on this planet and do what i see as the correct thing.
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 52
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/21/2017 4:09:14 AM
Some very good points by Ordinary, very refreshing and from an insider so to speak. Hey why do all the girls stand up for jo!!!!#$@@#$...just saying. Look your mp of two years is a lying scumbag or a clucking incompetent, we are a people globally who don't have money we work but they don't allow us to have any true payment. This is why the world is violent and riddled with inequality while you talk about "ourselves alone" in Scotland. Call me picky but an entity that wants to steal from me and would push me out the door to fight for it while it sits back in its deckchair does not have my vote .

let me be clear Pauline that two year old is a banking shill or in the unkind words of the forum bard K. Y. TEn, a retard. For she and her magic words that unlocked your vote are not going to stop even more inequality and violence that are coming. I know ignorance is bliss. The debt based money system with that lovely gooey feeling of early inflation for those close to its presses allows most of us to insouciantly bask in it while blithely ignoring others being slaughtered for years on the high altar of the tin pot crass plundering debt scam, covered over by flags and weird statesmen and defended constantly by rockets and guns and outright lies.

Get out of debt, debt destroyed lives right out of the gate in the great depression, a house is mere shelter, admittedly some are good income providers but only some not all. Get your fiat cash outside the banking system and make silver your crisis spending money and load up on gold because central banks are not omnipotent.


Vvv i think i said that, perhaps if it's not too embarrassing for you, you could show her my thoughts
....Theresa is going to win big I think then we can all go back to posting our diets...lovely day, I'm in Dorking...

Vvvvv pauline..pauline pauline, I'm just stating my opinions ....as you are..... this is far from personal for
me...I mean ky is far worse ..sorry ky....and you don't
pick on him...but I do believe your Mp is utterly evil like Theresa either by design or ignorance....i haven't ate yet...
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 53
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/21/2017 4:43:22 AM
I think the thread is still rolling along ok to be honest. Off topic is where its at for bloodletting.
There was a good article in the new statesman regarding brexit and the coming election. The geezer stated that for once votes actually mattered.

The vote achieved something. That 'we' done one over on 'them' and my oh my how 'them' hate 'we' for it. Just look at the laval and viking cases that sillars speaks off. How can anyone say workers are protected when the eu ruled against workers and for businesses?

The op mentions about auld fvckers like me destroying the youngsters future. What future? Youth unemployment stands at 50% in spain, portugal etc. What future has the eu given them? Whole towns and cities in enslaved nations are emptying of youngsters as they travel to find work. When they get to where they are going they get exploited financially. Local youngsters have to work for sweetie money. Yet this is seen a good thing!!!!!!!!!

Anyway I'm in little france and going for a cairry oot and watch the football.

 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 54
Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/21/2017 4:49:45 AM
I did vote for
But that was before anyone realised what a complete Jeremy he'd turn out to be.
After 17(?) years of the tories running down the NHS, and allowing schools to deteriorate, and selling off publicly built and financed, and profitable public utilities, I was just glad to have a labour govt.

Blair played the tories at their own game: image.
It's what politics has sadly become, because most voters can't be bothered to think about it, for longer than it takes to toss a coin.

The tories are doing it again now, and focusing on likely "competence to manage", which is really based on what the person looks and sounds like.
If they appear "corporate" enough, (like Blair, the barrister, and his barrister wife), if they look enough like the people who sit in board rooms, they're perceived as being a 'safer pair of hands", when it comes to domestic politics, or international relations.
It's a dangerous strategy today though, times have changed. And they're out of touch.
The people sitting around board room tables today, are just as likely to have a tattooed 'sleeve', and a pierced nose, as they are to be wearing a saville row suit.

But I digress.
Back then (1997), Foot had previously lost because of a duffel coat, and kinnock, because he was ginger, and Welsh..
Blair won, because he looked and sounded as credible AS the tories.

With hindsight, I'd rather have seen a challenge to the ideology of 'neoliberalism'.
Blair and brown had Avery 'laisez faire' attitude to the financial sector, continuing deregulation, which both the tories and the financial sectors had continued to 'lobby' for, and in fairness, it seemed to be "working".
We had 13 years of the sort of 'growth' which governments can only dream of today.
Labour was able to invest in schools, hospitals, education, and social care, after a few years of actually running a budget surplus.

then came the collapse, and the bankruptcy of the banks.
Despite this beginning in the USA., the tories actually managed to persuade the dim, attention-span-deficient electorate that this was entirely "labour's fault".
Up until the day before the collapse, the tories had had a "deregulation task force", headed by John "Vulcan" Redwood, telling Labour there were too many financial regulations, and the banks concurred.

To use a simile which the dim public can understand:
"They all stood in a circle, and screamed "Put your d1ck in the pig's mouth!! MOUTH:D1CK:MOUTH:D1CK:MOUTH:D1CK!!!!""
And then, the next day, they all said
"EEWWWWW!! Dude, WHY DID YOU DO THAT??!!!

Back on topic:
Billy's affable eccentricity with gold ignores the real problem, which (IMO) is the growing of the inequality of distribution of the profits from the fruit of our labour's.
(He shows a woeful lack of knowledge about the improved living conditions of the lower orders under labour, in the last 60 years)
The real problem is convincing the public that there's really no need for anyone to become a billionaire, just because they had a good idea, one day, 15 years ago.
While his employees receive state subsidised "top-ups" to their meagre wages.

If you want "strong" sanctions against the unemployed, the sick, and the elderly, and children, vote tory.
If you want even more stable "austerity", and even more cuts to social services, and even more nurses using food-banks,
More corporations paying even less tax, and even more billionaires, then vote tory.
But...
If you want change, then vote labour.

Have a pleasant valley Sunday.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 55
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/21/2017 5:13:15 AM
Pauline
But why? Digs are part and parcel of life. You actually go out and canvas and attend meetings. I read and try and fathom out economics because i am clueless. Jo's last post has a lot in it i agree with. But........
Mp's are meant to represent voters views. How would you personally react if your snp mp, msp, councillor voted brexit?
Because a lot of folk in labour heartlands feel betrayed by their mp ignoring their wishes. I live in Edinburgh south. This will make jo chuckle as my mp is the only labour mp left in Scotland. Ian murray. Hes actually helped me out a few times. And apart from supporting the merricks over at swinecastle he seems a no bad lad.

When he loses his seat in the election i will email him and lesley thanking them for their help. Now i will likey have a snp mp after the election. And no doubt he will be a remainer. Thats fine. Until we become independent then i will vote for whoever will take us from the eu.

As any scot on here knows scottish labour got slapped for holding hands with call me dave at indyref. They will never recover. Since i was old enough to vote Scotland returned mainly labour mp's. What did we get for that? Thatcher, major, blair, brown, cameron.

It made not one bit of difference to scotland voting labour mp's in. We still got shafted. And we are still being shafted now. But maybe oneday...........
 duracell_bunny_one
Joined: 1/21/2015
Msg: 56
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/21/2017 5:15:34 AM
Every party that lands up attempting to govern is duty-bound to blame
'the last lot' for the so-called mess that they have inherited.
It's Punch & Judy politics, otherwise known as arse-covering.
It's dishonest at best.

 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 57
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/21/2017 5:33:56 AM
Great post Jo, no I mean it , I love all the questioning of some voters' intelligence too.
And the pig stuff too, that doesn't get enough airing in my opinion. Just saying....
I certainly don't try to stymie debate. ...in my last post I pointed out that Theresa May
is either evil or stupid too. ( won't use ky's..sorry me ole mucker...word...I find it offensive too
Save for polticos(puppets) and banksters(string pullers).

See I look at the fractional reserve debt based money system and where we are, this is not 1945.
And often muse on these threads of freedom why Nicola , Theresa (lovely pins and no pig stuff)
Jeremy(rock star) Tim (utter stool) the ukip guy ( senior moment....he's hopeless..anyway) and the
green duo ... and they never mention the great monetary thieving system...it's either through venality or stupidity.

I also note we have an open economy and wonder why Jo gives credit to new labour for the artificial
boom and criticises the sub prime and banksters for the bust. When yours truly would put the blame
for the bubble and pop on Mr Alan Greenspan....of the good ole united states of whacky paper and military
Violence if you challenge the petrodollar in any way.......still haven't ate...too much posting...lovely day today..

Pauline.. take a look at bunny's post.....it speaks to truth..
I'm not picking on you , i feel that's unfair on me but I
will ignore your posts fron now on if you wish but I will
continue to express my views on sound money as I see
fit and in its absence the complete charade that
politics is. Once again I wish you no hurt feelings
and I enjoy reading all your posts but my posts are
mine to do as I see fit :)
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 58
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/21/2017 5:51:03 AM
Ive just been t o scotmid and got a goodfellow and stevens sausage roll. It was tidy. And 10 cans of beer as well. And still got change of £10.

Anyway i digress. Bondsy
See you are saying the yanks caused the latest collapse? I was reading about the petro dollar somewhere else and it was used as an example of sherman belligerence.

But mind the run up to brexit when alister darling, gideon and six former treasurers of america said the sky would fall in? Would that be the same two british chancellors who said all was well just before the previous collapse? And the six shermans who managed to get shermanland into trillions of debt?

They were 'experts' were they not?
 ordinary_psycho
Joined: 5/26/2016
Msg: 59
Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/21/2017 6:35:07 AM

Billy's affable eccentricity with gold ignores the real problem, which (IMO) is the growing of the inequality of distribution of the profits from the fruit of our labour's.
(He shows a woeful lack of knowledge about the improved living conditions of the lower orders under labour, in the last 60 years)

Billy is right though, fractional reserve banking is the root of the problem. Fractional reserve banking allows commercial banks to operate beyond their deposit liabilities. You seem to make the mistake of thinking that money is money. There are two types of money in a fractional reserve system:-
Central Bank money (which is consolidated money)
Commercial Bank money (which is liquid money)
The two things are not the same.

The real problem is convincing the public that there's really no need for anyone to become a billionaire, just because they had a good idea, one day, 15 years ago.

No I disagree, I think the greatest trick anyone ever pulled off is convincing the public that liquid money is the same as consolidated money.
 duracell_bunny_one
Joined: 1/21/2015
Msg: 60
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/21/2017 7:34:55 AM
Food for thought?

"Today Work and Pensions Secretary Damian Green defended it saying that £100,000 was a "reasonable amount of inheritance". "
(BBC news site)

When I need a bluddy politician to tell me his/her personal? opinion of what in their microbrain constutes 'reasonable inheritance' -
I'll ask - considering the bloated average worth of these overpaid numpties, if I were Damian Green I'd shut up, before he loses Mrs Mays new pastiche gestapo party any more votes.

 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 61
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/21/2017 8:02:47 AM
what was the topic again? ....

Messages this short may not be posted

seems you have to waffle just to ask a question think i might copy and paste war and peace just to keep the bot happy
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 62
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/21/2017 8:14:43 AM
I feel my words are being used in a strange and fantastic
manner....so let me add some more..Theresa May is either evil or an incredibly big nosed ignorant retarded half wit.....because of the sound money thing....just saying....er....she'll still win though....I feel despite her legs she presides over a criminal , murderous enterprise...

Don't like the snp whatsoever, I emotionally feel they are a bunch of fiat money spivs trying to break up My!!! country The united kingdom of Great Britain and northern Ireland..which is itself...a criminal enterprise and slave state of the U.S.A. who itself is a criminal enterprise and enslaved totally to the paper/ debt men who have suborned Politicians ( scumbags) and soldiers ( the young) in every nation.....g o l d ......
 10ky
Joined: 11/15/2012
Msg: 63
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/21/2017 2:56:57 PM
-bond
That's a rather interesting way of justifying oneself. By that logic, it's totally fine to be responsible for the death of 59,999,999 people because uncle A was responsible for 60 million.

Lordy, lordy.. the nazis and nazism are indeed the epitome of all that's dodgy in life. A bit like shite.
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 64
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Posted: 5/21/2017 4:41:13 PM
So funny Pauline practising your humour in the dead of night , although I do believe it's shyster lawyer..

Are we friends yet ? :)


 try1more
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 65
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/22/2017 8:01:48 AM
pauline
you want independance for scotland, yet you want to remain in the eu.
to me this simply doesn't compute.
can you tell me your reasons for each?
sorry to join the queue picking on you but there's nobody else to ask this question that i'm aware of.
for whatever it may be worth, i admire your being so open about where you stand, regardless of what i may think of your choices.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 66
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/23/2017 6:57:44 AM
Try - I can't answer for the Scots but I can understand why the apparent dichotomy.

Wherever you look in the last 40 or so years, possibly longer, there has been a complete disengagement between London and the rest of th UK. Whether that is in politics or the arts or the news it is in your face. It isn't so prevalent anymore but how many times in the past have we seen headlines about the country coming to a standstill because of snow/leaves on the line/strike when what they mean is London came to a standstill. The majority of us live outside London yet the majority of transport infrastructure spend is in London. There's a huge discrepancy between the amount spent per capita by the government inside/outside London.

If I was a Scot living in Scotland I might choose independence simply because if it ftucks up, it would be my ftuck up (or maybe just because I can). And next time at the next Scottish general election, I could vote and my voice would have more strength.

"you want independance for scotland, yet you want to remain in the eu" - Using the word independence confuses the issue. As you see it, being a member of the EU means being subservient to the EU and not having the freedom to act which isn't quite what is on offer. For sure we are likely to see the EU becoming even more integrated and that is something the Scots would have to think about very hard but the EU still isn't the bullshit we have been fed about it, bendy bananas and all. The EU, in my opinion, is more geared towards consensus than is the case in the UK (first past the post system wins all).

There's lots of good stuff in Europe. In particular I like the Scandinavian attitude towards society and that appears to be quite similar to the Scottish attitude too (IMO). The UK could do with more of it.
 duracell_bunny_one
Joined: 1/21/2015
Msg: 67
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/23/2017 7:06:00 AM
.......There are a truly frightening number of MPs who still think there is no intelligent life outside Islington...............

Bodies like DEFRA have totally no understanding how 'natural England' ticks -
Central Government is obsessed with vanity projects -
Local Government is fixated on promoting Kommunity over common sense.

I can fully understand the Scots wanting out.

 tartanjohnny
Joined: 5/10/2013
Msg: 68
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Posted: 5/24/2017 8:53:47 AM
Pauline - I don't know why you bother trying to educate the ignorant fookwits on here about Scottish politics. They know fook all about it -coming at it from a Daily Mail perspective. Just look at the inane comments made by Billy and lo and behold Kirk has done some research - oh really - dunno what the fook you were reading.

Both countries are completely different in their political outlook - Scotland is not full of right wing xenophobes - just too many bigots in Scotland - witness the lack of UKIP there. Perhaps that's why Scotland should govern itself -what self-respecting country would want to be governed by another which is so different politically.
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 69
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/24/2017 10:30:10 AM
Hi Tart,
Yeah you are such a different country ....like the rest
etc.....but outsiders can see a country again and sure you want to be an independent nation like the E.U. wants to be .
But money printing is making the snp look good and the same in Southern England with Theresa. Without it the politics would be ugly. The rest is posturing and positioning and that's why May will win on June the 8th.

Property millionaires abound, its heady stuff. The last unemployment recession was a quarter of a century ago. All sorts of people in different walks of life have no idea how unreal all this is down here it's taken as the norm. Politicians are in facile competition and Theresa has spun a tale that this all is ok and the fundamentals are strong. Nicola has her narrative too ...both have broken bread with the banking cartel by the way and reassured them .

And sure Scotland's body politic is instinctively left of centre...and perhaps England's is right of centre..but with North sea oil a declining factor ...what is Scotland going to live on...serious tax revenues (15 billion) are going to go away with independence. The private sector will have to step in, is Scotland ready for this...The EU doesn't do fiscal union yet but the uk does
and we are all one together as a nation, in a way that England and Scotland have never been.

And with declining world growth, chronic indebtedness is rampant, without the $250 billion a month global QE , asset prices would fall off a cliff and because these assets are all collateral well shit credit crunch......obviously if they didn't do this there would be a great depression on stilts. But this is an exponential function in a finite world.

Sturgeon and Salmon are dumb ****s :) like all politicians the world over . They conspire with the banking parasites to tax
the working class into poverty by the inflation tax. Working
people love it at first and scorn their own when the first losers
appear then get angry at immigrants or the rich or perhaps the Tories (the english) as they do... the dumb ****s also always believe that a law passed by them will solve a problem.... dim
beyond belief...
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 70
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/24/2017 12:10:46 PM
Austerity means there has been a reduction in public
expenditure? There hasn't been. Not even close the
red ink spreads unabated Pauline.

Nicola got that money from the Tory's ? I mean it wasn't
hers or there's for that matter..it came from the backs of
working people. I'd be embarrassed if I was politician buying
things for people with other people's money and taking a
victory lap.

Scarey says I'm not respecting you... I'm sorry if you feel like
that. Let me know where and I'll reconsider my words.
I'm only throwing rocks at the system and its puppets.
Like alex and nicola. There all dumb****s, except Nelson
Mandela, find that one difficult.

Scarey says money is not important. I disagree. We live
in a world without it. A world way worse than barter.
A world leo Tolstoy remarked was worse than slavery
because it was hidden.

The fact there is a fraud on
working people being run by all government is annoying to me
All governments are criminal enterprises , I truly
believe you are canvassing for odious criminals.
We don't have austerity, and we have blood on our hands and
not just in manchester. The maintenance of the petrodollar
has led American foreign policy to create isis, train it and fund it.
 kirkstmoritz1968
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 71
Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/24/2017 2:03:50 PM

lo and behold Kirk has done some research - oh really - dunno what the fook you were reading.


It was something i read on the BBC website that said our GDP would go up if Scotland leaves. that's it. I really don't give the tiniest toss either way whatever Scotland chooses.
 scareymush
Joined: 8/9/2011
Msg: 72
Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/24/2017 2:59:00 PM
I thought that it's a good thing if the GDP goes up....someone needs to explain it to me using an analogy as opposed to using economics language.

Feck it Pauline you deserve a standing ovation for throwing yourself into a cause you believe in, for taking action and being a dynamic individual. I meant respect as in acknowledging your efforts and commitment and also trusting that you're probably well-informed and knowing that throwaway insults about Sturgeon et al won't sway your personal opinions.
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 73
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Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/24/2017 3:20:17 PM
I'll explain it's a nation's salary
Of course nothing is ever that simple.... A 10% wage rise and 15 % inflation rate means a 5% cut in your wage
And a 10 % wage cut and a -15 deflation rate means a wage rise. Of course absurd examples to make my point.
Deflation is the purchasing power of money increasing and in a sound money economy it would be natural for an economy to enjoy deflation.


Of course in an unsound fiat currency system it's death to the banks and for all of us debt slaves. This is where we all are as a world Governments also understate the inflation rate or the rising cost of living as this boosts wages if not actual purchasing power or real gdp/salary. In a natural economy a house should be only two times a person's income. We sure do make things hard for ourselves.
 Squareslice
Joined: 10/17/2016
Msg: 74
Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/24/2017 3:31:43 PM
Billy, I'll explain in simple terms even YOU may get a slight grasp of.

Money is a figment of the imagination. It is a PROMISE and, as we know, promises can be broken.
 scareymush
Joined: 8/9/2011
Msg: 75
Brexit? A coup de grace?
Posted: 5/24/2017 4:04:05 PM
I remain confused with perhaps a slightly better notion than before....what's the term for a person with a phobia about money?

This sounds about right:

http://www.fearof.net/fear-of-money-phobia-chrometophobia-or-chrematophobia/

Anyway...good on the aul' SNP.

Thanks Square, that's what I feared.
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