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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman      Home login  
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 Damilovely
Joined: 12/23/2014
Msg: 51
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Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & GentlemanPage 3 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
Some really interesting posts here! Nothing like a good debate / exchange of opinions.


But, some men do enjoy acting in gentlemanly ways around women they wish to charm.

I always thought this was a good gauge of level of interest, commitment and strength of character.


The notion of 'Equality' in everything is ridiculous;
We're equal but different. The keeper isn't the striker but they're both member of the team without which the team is unable to play at it's best.


I would behave the same with a hardcore feminist, though that would be the only date.
Apparently we're on the 4th wave of feminism. The first wave (1900-1980) sought equal rights and opportunities economically, politically etc. There's hardly any controversy aligning with 1st to 2nd wave but from the 3rd wave a divergence emerges. I should do a thread on this sometime. :)



What do you mean by "wins"?

Which will you decide to start a relationship with is what my question means.
POF is for singles to "unsingle" themselves so that's the ultimate objective. Match with one worth being with for life :)


The gentleman is the man who when there is a fight near by doesn't engage but instead ensures his lady is safe. The gentleman is the man who opens doors. Not just for their date but for others as well. The Gentleman is the man with manners. It really is that basic and simple.
Absolutely! He's aware of his masculine nature, the strength that comes with it and uses it to create a feeling of awe in others.


Simple things like please and thank you are swiftly becoming phrases of the past... Its sad and it makes people lonely.
Your post is so apt! To the extent that elderly people are no longer preferred on queues or the train in some areas. We've become self obsessed instead of prioritising what's best for our communities and world in general.


"Some", have no idea what they are missing.
Quite a few of us, much older, middle aged, young adult, women, enjoy being charmed.

I'm hard pressed to find a woman who won't be so charmed but I some especially millennials are being influenced to see the extra care, kindness and manners a man will show to a woman especially one in whom he has romantic interests to be unprogressive or an attempt to take away their "rights".


I sincerely can't begin to imagine..............."barking obscenities at each other" / " problem solving things in our own way (sometimes loudly)". Not for a second. Ewwwww Worms!
The bliss of a happy relationship! :) You go girl!!


it is easy to maintain equality and chivalry and femininity and feminism
&
Not everyone separates the two, they CAN co-exist.

I agree with both positions to a certain degree. Ie equality when the position is gender neutral eg the right to vote, the right to an education, to contest for public office, buy property, considered on merits for vacancies etc but bringing it to a dynamic requiring two different sexes just kills it causes a filling to friend zone ie no romance. Thankfully most know this.

However, can one be a feminist if they don't align with the current wave of the era they're living in? What if that era doesn't celebrate femininity? I might need a new thread for this.


Well over 2000++ years ago a whole tribe of folk were given 10 simple rules to follow
This too! :)


Chivalry wins. I'm of an age where that is how I was raised and what I am accustomed to. Brown Eyes mentioned treating each other with respect, but women are not going to pull a man's chair out and men may do that and other things even today's women won't do.
Chivalry is much more than respect. A man can respect another man even though he's not romantically included towards men generally but he's included to be chivalrous towards a man he's attracted to romantically. Where a woman had no romantic interest in a man his chivalrous nature will cause her to rethink his proposition.


When chivalry takes me on a date I do respond well as I prefer southern gentlemen. I don't always wish to be an equal when it comes to romance. Why? I like letting my femininity fly, feeling free to be myself without the current American social constructs of "liberalism". I enjoy the old fashioned notions of dating, and being more conservative in that area.
Absolutely! Feminine and masculine energies definitely have always been pivotal to a successful romance.



Equality IMO is for school, the workplace, the law, etc.
Chivalry is for romantic relationships.
My thoughts too. Maybe an exception is where the romantic relationship is of the same sex. Otherwise the sexes should appreciate and honour the differences, strengths and weaknesses of the other. After all, men can't bear what women go through xx x x xxxx :)


The good old days when women were complete, had love for men, displayed their femininity and were happy, are becoming a thing of the past and both genders are suffering.
Hear! Hear!!
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 52
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/26/2017 8:38:57 AM
I agree with your second line, when a fellow is trying to be what other people think is best...he's trying to look good. why? likely b/c he wants to impress someone who has already made an impression upon him. sexual or otherwise.

when you do the post on feminism, please define it and the different waves, so that we can be all on the same page. you had asked if someone could be feminist if they didn't align with their era, and I think for most, that was exactly what happened. Early women sufferagists weren't aligned, more like Maligned. But by our modern definition, they were fighting for women's rights. Someone can think they are a label, or they can act like a label. Sometimes, they do both at the same time, and other times, they may do the former but fail to do the latter.
 Damilovely
Joined: 12/23/2014
Msg: 53
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Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/26/2017 8:51:33 AM
I'm not sure about your "other people think is best" comment GT.
Surely he's being a gentleman not simply a man because that is what he's decided to be.

Suffragettes were women of the first wave who believed in equality in political voting rights. They were aligned with the wave of their time; no??
 Butterchickenchuck
Joined: 9/18/2015
Msg: 54
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/26/2017 11:20:08 AM
"Kuddos for not wearing a hat in your pics, Chuck"



I could hide my disgusting, grotesque balding head with a hat but I would have to remove it sooner or later and the resulting SCREAMS OF HORROR might make me go deaf.


But thanks for the subtle dig BUDDY !
 IMayBeCrazy_But
Joined: 12/28/2016
Msg: 55
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/26/2017 1:26:51 PM
Awwwwww. C'mon, Chuck.

After your "sigh"...my comment was a meager attempt to give you a gold star to lift your spirits. Sorry it was lame, but it was late and I was medicated. You have a lovely balding head and I'm sure that even if you did start wearing hats in your pics that it wouldn't matter to the ladies at the big reveal.
 Butterchickenchuck
Joined: 9/18/2015
Msg: 56
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/26/2017 1:29:42 PM
Meh, guys with a full head of hair are full of estrogen and the women who date them are CLOSET LESBIANS









In order to maintain the highest quality forums you are restricted to having no more then 2 of the last 10 posts on a thread.
Since 2 of the last 10 posts are yours you can not post to this thread.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 57
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Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/26/2017 2:54:48 PM
"Which will you decide to start a relationship with is what my question means."

Please explain OP, why you think you can't have it all in the same mate.
 halcyon_skies
Joined: 7/27/2015
Msg: 58
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/26/2017 10:07:14 PM

Which will you decide to start a relationship with is what my question means.


I'm in agreement with moraima. I didn't need to make a choice between Equality and Chivalry or Man and Gentleman. My partner has them all.

As for me, I am both Feminist and Feminine, plus the two traits you left out: Woman and Lady.
 meowzing
Joined: 4/27/2017
Msg: 59
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/26/2017 10:14:37 PM
I am personally thankful I don't feel like I have to be equal to a man. I'm not one, and I physically cannot compete.
 halcyon_skies
Joined: 7/27/2015
Msg: 60
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/26/2017 10:18:24 PM
^^^^ I don't feel as if I have to be my man's physical equal, but I'm certainly his equal in all other respects, including intellectually and financially.
 NoxzemaWA
Joined: 2/19/2017
Msg: 61
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 12:13:13 AM

I am personally thankful I don't feel like I have to be equal to a man.


Same here. Men are not the ultimate standard of humanity and I don't wish to be treated like one. I want women and femininity to be respected, and to be able to not live in fear of being a victim of violence. Competing with men and masculinity is counter-productive and implies that women and femininity are somehow not good enough so we have to be "equal" to them.
 Wilkes_Barre_Candy
Joined: 9/7/2016
Msg: 62
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 5:03:44 AM

I am personally thankful I don't feel like I have to be equal to a man.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Same here. Men are not the ultimate standard of humanity and I don't wish to be treated like one. I want women and femininity to be respected, and to be able to not live in fear of being a victim of violence. Competing with men and masculinity is counter-productive and implies that women and femininity are somehow not good enough so we have to be "equal" to them.

+1,000,000
I consider myself to be "equivalent"!
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 63
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 6:55:22 AM
"I'm not sure about your "other people think is best" comment"

>>>at the risk of sounding cynical, I was suggesting a sign that someone is interested in you, is when they try to present themselves to you in a way they think you'd be pleased with. "Cozying up" may be another term for it. Whether its good or bad, its a compliment of sorts. sometimes, tho, I find people trying hard to be something just b/c they want to see themselves as that. sometimes it may even lead to faux pas, like the person who tries too hard to be funny and makes an inappropriate joke.

Here in America, the first suffragettes didn't seem to align with their era:

"Significant barriers had to be overcome, however, before a campaign for women's suffrage could develop significant strength. One barrier was strong opposition to women's involvement in public affairs, a practice that was not fully accepted even among reform activists. Only after fierce debate were women accepted as members of the American Anti-Slavery Society at its convention of 1839, and the organization split at its next convention when women were appointed to committees.[9] Opposition was especially strong against the idea of women speaking to audiences of both men and women. Frances Wright, a Scottish woman, was subjected to sharp criticism for delivering public lectures in the U.S. in 1826 and 1827.....Opposition remained strong, however. A regional women's rights convention in Ohio in 1851 was disrupted by male opponents.[14] The National Women's Rights Convention in 1852 was similarly disrupted, and mob action at the 1853 convention came close to violence.[15] The World's Temperance Convention in New York City in 1853 bogged down for three days in a dispute about whether women would be allowed to speak there.[16] Susan B. Anthony, a leader of the suffrage movement, later said, "No advanced step taken by women has been so bitterly contested as that of speaking in public. For nothing which they have attempted, not even to secure the suffrage, have they been so abused, condemned and antagonized."[17]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage_in_the_United_States

to quote Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, "well behaved women rarely making history" :)
 halcyon_skies
Joined: 7/27/2015
Msg: 64
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 8:49:08 AM

Same here. Men are not the ultimate standard of humanity and I don't wish to be treated like one. I want women and femininity to be respected, and to be able to not live in fear of being a victim of violence. Competing with men and masculinity is counter-productive and implies that women and femininity are somehow not good enough so we have to be "equal" to them.<


I don't view being treated as my man's equal as a competition between the two of us. We don't compete with one another--physically or otherwise.

I define equality as follows: Equal opportunity · Equal protection of the laws · Equal pay · Separate but equal
 L_LuuLuu
Joined: 8/2/2009
Msg: 65
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Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 10:32:48 AM
To answer the OP's question:

Hmmmmm. Let me see....

Mr. Equality:

Didn't plan the date, so I can take half interest in selecting the restaurant.

Doesn't pull out my chair at the restaurant.

Respects my ability to open the doors for myself.

Knows that I am his equal, so I can keep his pace in the parking lot. (He's 6-4 and I'm 5'2" and I'm wearing stilettos)

Is afraid insult my feminist sensibilities, so he doesn't compliment my appearance.

Doesn't help me with my coat.


Instead of winning me over by being himself, he as already read some great macho books on PUA, so he can manipulate me. Tries to get me to do all the talking so he can use my info to his benefit later. Knows how to "play it cool" as he hopes to make me chase him and do all the pursuing.

Treats the conversation like a business interview. In fact, it is one -- as relationships are business to him.

He has an appetizer, 4 drinks, the largest plate in the house and dessert. I have a small appetite, so I have an appetizer for a main course, and 1 drink. Still, he insists on splitting the tab. (50/50) and tip.

Dashes out the door ahead of me.



Mr Chivilary:

Chose a fun spot that he enjoys to surprise me.

Opens ALL the doors for me -- including car door. Walks to passenger side of the car -- not expecting me to "slide over."

Walks WITH me -- as he is proud to be with me.

Tells me how nice I look.

Helps me with my coat.

Acts like a normal guy, so I know generally, what to expect from him. This makes me feel confident and happy in our relationship. So, I know how to make him happy -- instead of playing guessing games.

At my gentle encouragement, he does most of the talking. I keep it light and fun.

Picks up the tab, since he invited me on the date.

Walks me to my door when he takes me home.



I PICK MR CHIVILRY!!!!
 2ufo2
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 66
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 12:08:28 PM
I don't know who you're dating, but that ain't Mr. Equality.
Mr. Crass or Mr. PUA or Mr. Player, perhaps.

My Mr. Equality,
- says the venue is a surprise but would I prefer Italian or steak and suggests I wear something fancy since he's wearing a suit
- says I am his guest and he'll be paying (but I can get the second real date)
- treats me as his guest (which includes pulling out my chair, opening my doors, helping me with my coat)
- treats me as special (which includes walking beside me, holding my arm, and telling me that I look fantastic)
- knows how to share his conversation (giving some of his background and thoughts, asking about my thoughts and background, listens)
- he has an appetizer (which he shares), 1 drink (and asks if I would like anything), a steak and then says he couldn't finish dessert but that looks great -- do I think I could eat half.
- since he invited, he pays -- but says he had a great time and asks what I can hint of our next date. I, of course, ask him if he has a snorkel set or cowboy boots
- waits for me at the door, then says to stay until he brings the car up (he has already tipped the maitre'd to escort me out with an umbrella if it's raining)
- says the evening is young and would I like to go dancing or walking along the Riverwalk or do I have something I'd like better (without suggesting sex in his tone, manner or body language)
- walks me to the door and gives me a kiss for having a great time in my company.

I start planning our second date knowing that he probably isn't going to try to wrest it out of my control. It includes giving him back that good-night kiss... with interest.

Feminism and equality were originally not meant to apply to the socio-sexual relations between adults. It was simply meant to give women the rights of men - to vote, obtain higher education, earn money, be treated equally on the job as their male counterparts - so they could be free from the necessity of depending upon a man (who may not have been dependable) when they were older.
 Wilkes_Barre_Candy
Joined: 9/7/2016
Msg: 67
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 12:09:01 PM

Mr. Equality:

Didn't plan the date, so I can take half interest in selecting the restaurant.

Doesn't pull out my chair at the restaurant.

Respects my ability to open the doors for myself.

Knows that I am his equal, so I can keep his pace in the parking lot. (He's 6-4 and I'm 5'2" and I'm wearing stilettos)

Is afraid insult my feminist sensibilities, so he doesn't compliment my appearance.

Doesn't help me with my coat.


Instead of winning me over by being himself, he as already read some great macho books on PUA, so he can manipulate me. Tries to get me to do all the talking so he can use my info to his benefit later. Knows how to "play it cool" as he hopes to make me chase him and do all the pursuing.

Treats the conversation like a business interview. In fact, it is one -- as relationships are business to him.

He has an appetizer, 4 drinks, the largest plate in the house and dessert. I have a small appetite, so I have an appetizer for a main course, and 1 drink. Still, he insists on splitting the tab. (50/50) and tip.

Dashes out the door ahead of me

If anyone ever did that to me (thank God I finally remarried & all of it is behind me) they would be in the ER getting the stiletto UN-IMPALED from their ANUS. Except...knowing what's out there, some would enjoy that type of experience :0(
 2ufo2
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 68
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 12:14:02 PM
Wilkes...
You'd ruin a good pair of stilettos on a heel like that?
 Wilkes_Barre_Candy
Joined: 9/7/2016
Msg: 69
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 12:17:28 PM
^^^
LoL
I'd hang out at the ER
afterwards, I'd use a little disinfectant on the heel...the shoe heel--- not the a s s hole




In order to maintain the highest quality forums you are restricted to having no more then 2 of the last 10 posts on a thread.
Since 2 of the last 10 posts are yours you can not post to this thread.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 70
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Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 2:43:17 PM
" If we expected more, set our own standards high in the way in which we treat people we would get more in return. "

And if others don't "get" it, they don't exist to us.
 Maria11418
Joined: 3/14/2017
Msg: 71
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 8:11:00 PM
I'm not big on labels... Thankfully in my experience, for the most part the men I've gone out with have been chivalrous gentlemen.
Chivalry/femininity are things I like very much... I think a little play makes it more fun to be male or female, respectively. Much more fun.
At the same time, the rhetoric of "femininity" often comes from sources I don't like. It comes from men who sound very angry, or from women who seem to have a belief system I don't share. For example, there's a site thefemininewoman.com where the author repeatedly uses the term "high value," to the point of "should you let go of your low value friends." I don't use such terminology.
I once talked to a man who said a woman chastised him for opening a door for her. I apologized to him on our behalf...
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 72
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Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 8:46:12 PM
There's a reason why there's a lack of chivalry and gentlemen ways, because most of the good guys are taken. Many of these men are available for a reason. Their wives have kicked their sorry asses to the curb. Problem is, they still don't get it.
 Jackcrusto
Joined: 2/27/2017
Msg: 73
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/27/2017 10:45:17 PM

There's a reason why there's a lack of chivalry and gentlemen ways, because most of the good guys are taken. Many of these men are available for a reason. Their wives have kicked their sorry asses to the curb. Problem is, they still don't get it.


Let's swap this around shall we? There's a reason why there's a lack of femininity alongside of financial independence, because most of the good girls are taken. Many of these women are available for a reason. Their husbands have kicked their sorry asses to the curb. Problem is, they still don't get it.

Funny how everyone always believes the opposite sex is to blame for THEIR inability to find someone. It's almost like everyone doesn't realize they are their own issue. Weird huh?
 a_fleeting_glimpse_
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 74
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/28/2017 5:16:07 AM

I could hide my disgusting, grotesque balding head with a hat but I would have to remove it sooner or later

If you did that where would you put your hat?
 2ufo2
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 75
Equality & Chivalry. Feminism & Femininity. Man & Gentleman
Posted: 5/28/2017 6:37:07 AM

There's a reason why there's a lack of femininity alongside of financial independence, ...

Femininity and financial independence are not mutually exclusive.

Except for those men (and probably women also) who believe that femininity means a woman needs someone to take care of them.
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