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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution      Home login  
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 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 104
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A fatal flaw in the Theory of EvolutionPage 6 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

Why do you presume you know or speak the truth?

Accepting the fact of biological (macro) evolution is validated, it's common sense, and there's more religious people who accept it than those who don't have a religious bone in their body. The only reason macro-evolution is the "cold" truth -- is due to how one's raised thru THEIR religion... usually Their *brand* of Christianity (here in the Western world).

Macro-evolution isn't against the notion of God. It's against a story people will take literally. Grandpa can't be wrong. My family, my tradition... what gives me that tingly feeling of wholesome goodness & solidarity in life -- That is what it's against for many strongly religious folk, namely here in the US. But again, there's more religious people who accept macro evolution than those who are clearly & solidly not religious at all.

It's much the same as the Earth is not the center of the solar system, but that the Sun is -- and we're "just" a planet (a special one tho) that's the 3rd rock from it. Why do I "presume" I know that to be true? The evidence -- not "my gut". Thing is, it's not controversial Anymore -- it doesn't burst anyone's bubble. In a few generations, the same will be said for macro-evolution.

Heck...you don't even accept proven facts..like the benefits of religion to people... to the extent they live longer and are happier than the non-religious.

Depends what area you live in, but yes, that tends to be the case. But that's a red-herring. If there was a sub-culture that grew where people believed the Earth was Flat -- and they were measured to be happier -- would that be evidence that the Earth IS flat, or that you shouldn't tell them it's round? Of course not. Did you know married folks are no longer happier than single people? Does that mean one Should be single? Of course not. Nor that one Should be married (quick, find someone!). It's just the overall average with in each category. By the argument you use there -- become Mormon. They're the happiest. :)

But again, it's all a red-herring to divert attention away. The argument/discussion is about what's validated and what's not. Not "Don't tell Sally the earth is round! She's happier than folks like you who believe so!"
 kollata
Joined: 8/30/2017
Msg: 105
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/7/2018 2:29:06 PM
^^^ You are missing the nonsensical things that Frank says...his denial of unrefuted truths...so my response was simply to make it clear that Frank is the last person who should be telling us what is or is not true.


Did you know married folks are no longer happier than single people?


Just Psycho babble from the Psyche crowd... as there are so many variables...this is really a meaningless "finding".
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 106
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History
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/7/2018 4:02:23 PM
Are we evolving into something? Or away from something else? Or, are we nothing simply waiting for something to make us want to be... What??

I don't know other than my own aspirations and I figure that is as far as my evoloution goes in this life....... Your guess is as good as mine though.

As far as I'm concerned we all have potential.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 107
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/7/2018 5:39:43 PM

Are we evolving into something? Or away from something else?


If this planet is lucky enough.....we might slowly evolve (or devolve) back to being chimps....before we Fk it up beyond repair as we done with just about anything we've laid hands on!
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 108
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A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/8/2018 1:18:25 AM

Just Psycho babble from the Psyche crowd... as there are so many variables...this is really a meaningless "finding".

Exactly my point. It's the same level of psycho-babble that religious people are happier. :) You can't choose one psycho-babble as fact that backs up your emotions/beliefs, and call another one just psycho-babble.
 kollata
Joined: 8/30/2017
Msg: 109
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/8/2018 5:53:10 AM
^^^^nope not the same..though I see your point. People who are religious are generally, across the board, happier being religious than they would otherwise. I suppose if they didn't get something out of religion, they wouldn't be religious.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 110
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A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/9/2018 11:58:04 AM

People who are religious are generally, across the board, happier being religious than they would otherwise.

But my point is -- just the same as married people are happier than single people. Oh wait, they're not anymore, on average! Why? As you point out -- it varies from person to person. Far far more variance from person to person than within even 1 religion vs another (or lack thereof), let alone all.

I suppose if they didn't get something out of religion, they wouldn't be religious.

That's not true though. You're religious if you practice steps / follow any rules (even small) of a particular religion that isn't followed by the non-religious + believe in the core of said religion. Some folks can be not-that-religious but have a strong belief in a God. For practicality sake most will call anyone who believes in a particular God who's tied into a religion -- religious, to one degree or another. One can be non-happy in life in general -- it doesn't mean their religion is wrong or they're not actually religious. Plenty of people I know who are clearly not religious who are happy, and ones who are very religious who aren't so much. And everything in-between. Too much variance among people, and among religion (and lack thereof), and the mixture.

But religion is definitely something to draw happiness from, which is why it exists. And Mormons are deemed "happiest", as some religions have different auras/moods/atmospheres than others. Some are guilt-sin ridden up the yin-yang, and following folks Tend to not get up there on the "happier" list. My point about Mormons -- which I've had Mormon friends, great people ... yeah, if that's one's goal about being religious is to be happy(er), as not all religion cuts it for everyone -- become Mormon. Great "happy" culture.
 kollata
Joined: 8/30/2017
Msg: 111
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/9/2018 2:47:06 PM
With Religion comes community get togethers and connectedness. If people were not happy being religious and doing religious things with other like minded people...they likely wouldn't do so. Marriage is more complicated...people who are unhappy stay together for all sorts of reasons...kids...duty, hone and committment, etc. I just don't believe they are comparable.

Religion also may help people feel special. Our Universe alone is 14.7 billion years old (give or take). All of that time but for a few years... we weren't here and conscious... or were we? Billions of years of non-existence and then all of a sudden...randomly...we are drawn into existence for a micro instant only? Its natural to believe a higher power is involved. Its almost comforting too. True or not, it helps make us feel more important..maybe helps us believe there is a better world out there once life on earth ends.
 whosmeow
Joined: 10/19/2017
Msg: 112
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/9/2018 8:22:40 PM
Ive come to the reality if I have to explain what I get out of believing, whom ever asked didn't really want to know.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 113
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A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/9/2018 9:24:35 PM

With Religion comes community get togethers and connectedness.

You can be a religious person without being communal, actually. Being religious doesn't require going to church & being communally involved in such matters. But being religiously involved, as you describe, yes, I agree, it does. It isn't the only thing that gives a sense of community & connectedness, but it's definitely one of the ways, absolutely.

If people were not happy being religious and doing religious things with other like minded people...they likely wouldn't do so.

Nobody's saying that people aren't happy being religious. It's the foolish notion -- like comparing many other things -- that it Will make virtually Anyone happIER. Again, it's absolutely by No means the only source of communal get-togethers.

Religion also may help people feel special.

And certain religions can make people feel more special than others. Does that mean they Are happier and chances are you will be, so leave religion X and join religion Y? No. The communal gatherings are different from the belief (although help reinforce it for most). That's why it's a good thing to say that being part of a community will make one happier. That I agree with. And yes, for many people who's beliefs are open to it -- yes, most religions will help them be happier. Better chance with Mormonism too (again, if beliefs open to it).

Billions of years of non-existence and then all of a sudden...randomly...we are drawn into existence for a micro instant only?

See, all of this is going Off-Topic. You don't care about what Is -- you care about what can keep one at being Happy (or happier). No, religion is by no means a requirement for Fulfillment. At all. Some people are raised & conditioned where Not being religions After being religious will make them unhappy for a good while until they connect some dots.

Much like finding out you're adopted. So hey, let's change the subject. We don't want to tell you you've been adopted. Who cares if you were or not? The concept's about being Happy. :)
 kollata
Joined: 8/30/2017
Msg: 114
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/12/2018 8:22:12 AM
^^^^ not trying to get into a big argument about this. We have already argued in the past about the benefits or not of Religion. I have always taken the position, backed up by Sociological Studies, that people who are religious tend to be happier and more optimistic about life than the non-religious...at least in many circumstances. I'm not really religious myself...just stating what I have read from the studies I have reviewed.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 115
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A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/12/2018 9:19:43 AM

I have always taken the position, backed up by Sociological Studies, that people who are religious tend to be happier and more optimistic about life than the non-religious...at least in many circumstances.

Yeah, and it varies from one religion to another by sociological studies, too. As with married vs not married (which the tide has turned over time).

(a) It's admittedly generalizing, and news stories reporting about such things aren't admittedly so and people eat it up...
(b) Taking (a) into consideration -- my response to one who points to things like married vs unmarried, religious vs not is.... SO? :)
 kollata
Joined: 8/30/2017
Msg: 116
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/19/2018 9:16:40 AM
The Benefits from Marriage and Religion in the United States: A
Comparative Analysis
Linda J. Waite and Evelyn L. Lehrer
Abstract
America is a religious nation. The vast majority of Americans, when asked, profess a belief in God
and affirm that religion is at least “fairly important” in their lives (Myers 2000: 285); about 60 percent
of the population report membership in a religious organization and 45 percent state that they attend
religious services at least monthly (Sherkat and Ellison 1999). Most American adults are currently
married and almost all will marry at some time in their lives. About two-thirds of children live with
their married (biological or adoptive) parents ( U.S. Census Bureau 2001). And marriage and a happy
family life are almost universal goals for young adults.
This commentary presents a socioeconomic and demographic view of the research literature
on the benefits of marriage and religious participation in the United States. We compare religion
and marriage as social institutions, both clearly on everyone’s short list of “most important
institutions.” Marriage is an either–or status. But marital unions differ in a multitude of ways,
including the characteristics, such as education, earnings, religion, and cultural background,
of each of the partners, and the homogamy of their match on these characteristics. Similarly,
religion has multiple aspects. These include religious affiliation, a particular set of theological
beliefs and practices, and religiosity. Religiosity may be manifested in various levels and forms
of religious participation (attendance at religious services within a congregation, family
observance, individual devotion) and in terms of the salience of religion, that is, the importance
of religious beliefs as a guide for one’s life. Our focus here is on broad comparisons between
marriage (being married versus not) and religiosity (having some involvement in religious
activities versus not). We argue that both marriage and religiosity generally have far-reaching,
positive effects; that they influence similar domains of life; and that there are important parallels
in the pathways through which each achieves these outcomes. Where applicable, we refer to
other dimensions of marriage and religion, including the quality of the marital relationship and
the type of religious affiliation.
We begin with a comparison of the effects associated with marriage and involvement in
religious activities, based on a literature review, followed by a comparison of the major
channels through which each operates. We then discuss qualifications and important exceptions
to the general conclusion that marriage and religious involvement have beneficial effects. We
conclude with a consideration of the intersection between marriage and religion and
suggestions for future research.
The effects of marriage and religious involvement
Marriage and religion influence various dimensions of life, including physical health and
longevity, mental health and happiness, economic well-being, and the raising of children.
Recent research has also examined connections to sex and domestic violence.
NIH Public Access
Author Manuscript
Popul Dev Rev. Author manuscript; available in PMC 2009 January 6.
Published in final edited form as:
Popul Dev Rev. 2003 June ; 29(2): 255–276.
NIH-PA Author Manuscript NIH-PA Author Manuscript NIH-PA Author Manuscript
Physical health and longevity
One of the strongest, most consistent benefits of marriage is better physical health and its
consequence, longer life. Married people are less likely than unmarried people to suffer from
long-term illness or disability (Murphy et al. 1997), and they have better survival rates for some
illnesses (Goodwin et al. 1987). They have fewer physical problems and a lower risk of death
from various causes, especially those with a behavioral component; the health benefits are
generally larger for men (Ross et al. 1990). A longitudinal analysis based on data from the
Panel Study of Income Dynamics, a large national sample, documents a significantly lower
mortality rate for married individuals (Lillard and Waite 1995). For example, simulations based
on this research show that, other factors held constant, nine out of ten married women alive at
age 48 would still be alive at age 65; by contrast, eight out of ten never-married women would
survive to age 65. The corresponding comparison for men reveals a more pronounced
difference: nine out of ten for the married group versus only six out of ten for those who were
never married (Waite and Gallagher 2000).
Similarly, although there are exceptions and the matter remains controversial (Sloan et al.
1999), a growing body of research documents an association between religious involvement
and better outcomes on a variety of physical health measures, including problems related to
heart disease, stroke, hypertension, cancer, gastrointestinal disease, as well as overall health
status and life expectancy. This research also points to differences by religious affiliation, with
members of stricter denominations displaying an advantage (Levin 1994). Many of the early
studies in this literature suffer from methodological shortcomings, including small,
unrepresentative samples, lack of adequate statistical controls, and a cross-sectional design that
confounds the direction of causality. Yet the conclusion of a generally positive effect of
religious involvement on physical health and longevity also emerges from a new generation
of studies that have addressed many of these methodological problems (Ellison and Levin
1998). In one of the most rigorous analyses to date, Hummer et al. (1999) use longitudinal data
from a nationwide survey, the 1987 Cancer Risk Factor Supplement–Epidemiology Study,
linked to the Multiple Cause of Death file. Their results show that the gap in life expectancy
at age 20 between those who attend religious services more than once a week and those who
never attend is more than seven years—comparable to the male–female and white–black
differentials in the United States. Additional multivariate analyses of these data reveal a strong
association between religious participation and the risk of death, holding constant
socioeconomic and demographic variables, as well as initial health status. Other recent
longitudinal studies also report a protective effect of religious involvement against disability
among the elderly (Idler and Kasl 1992), as well as a positive influence on self-rated health
(Musick 1996) and longevity (Strawbridge et al. 1997).
To the extent that marriage and religious involvement are selective of people with unobserved
characteristics that are conducive to better health, their causal effects on health and longevity
would be smaller than suggested by some of the estimates in this literature.
Mental health and happiness
Recent studies based on longitudinal data have found that getting married (and staying married
to the same person) is associated with better mental health outcomes. Horwitz et al. (1996),
Marks and Lambert (1998), and Simon (2002) present evidence of improvements in emotional
well-being following marriage, and declines following the end of a union. Marks and Lambert
(1998) report that marital gain affects men and women in the same way, but marital loss is
generally more depressing for women. Analyses that control for the selection of the
psychologically healthy into marriage, and also include a wider range of measures of mental
well-being, find that although there are differences by sex in the types of emotional responses
Waite and Lehrer Page 2
Popul Dev Rev. Author manuscript; available in PMC 2009 January 6.
NIH-PA Author Manuscript NIH-PA Author Manuscript NIH-PA Author Manuscript
to marital transitions, the psychological benefits associated with marriage apply equally to men
and women (Horwitz et al. 1996; Simon 2002).
Marriage is also associated with greater overall happiness. Analysis of data from the General
Social Surveys of 1972–96 shows that, other factors held constant, the likelihood that a
respondent would report being happy with life in general is substantially higher among those
who are currently married than among those who have never been married or have been
previously married; the magnitude of the gap has remained fairly stable over the past 35 years
and is similar for men and women (Waite 2000).
The connection between religion and mental health has been the subject of much controversy
over the years, and many psychologists and psychiatrists remain skeptical, in part because most
of the research has been based on cross-sectional analyses of small samples. The studies to
date are suggestive of an association between religious involvement and better mental health
outcomes, including greater self-esteem, better adaptation to bereavement, a lower incidence
of depression and anxiety, a lower likelihood of alcohol and drug abuse, and greater life
satisfaction and happiness in general (Koenig et al. 2001). Recent longitudinal analyses of
subgroups of the population provide additional evidence in support of this relationship
(Zuckerman et al. 1984; Levin et al. 1996).


http://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC2614329&blobtype=pdf
 Cynderella
Joined: 3/8/2007
Msg: 117
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History
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/25/2018 3:54:39 AM
^^^OH MY....
Thank goodness for copy and paste.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 118
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 1/25/2018 12:40:12 PM
^^^^
52 years old and the guy can't even separate it into paragraphs.
 CadetBoneSpurs
Joined: 2/7/2018
Msg: 119
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 2/16/2018 1:54:08 PM

52 years old and the guy can't even separate it into paragraphs.


It gets worse.

He can not even read the whole thing, or selectively left out these parts.


Issues of selection bias

Overall, there is evidence of a strong association between stable marriages and a wide range of positive outcomes for children and adults, and the same is true in the case of religious involvement. However, the benefits are by no means uniform for all individuals, and significant exceptions may be cited. In addition, issues of selection bias deserve special attention.

Membership in some religious groups may reduce rather than enhance economic well-being. For example, the religious beliefs of conservative Protestants can discourage intellectual inquiry and have been linked with lower educational attainment (Darnell and Sherkat 1997; Sherkat and Darnell 1999; Lehrer 1999, 2003a), implying negative consequences for earnings.

There is also evidence that certain forms of religious beliefs and practices may not be beneficial for mental and physical health. Pargament et al. (1998) examine the role of religion as a coping tool, making a distinction between positive and negative religious coping. The former includes methods that reflect a secure relationship with God and a sense of spiritual connectedness with others. The latter is based on a pessimistic world view, a tenuous relationship with God, and a perception that God can inflict punishment.

While the positive religious coping methods are associated with higher levels of mental well-being, the opposite is true of the negative methods—an indication that religion has the capacity to cause distress and make things worse. Some religious teachings also promote the avoidance of medical services and can lead to serious adverse consequences for health (e.g., see Asser and Swan 1998).

The studies in this literature, however, are subject to a critical limitation: none of them has modeled the effects of religious participation on marital satisfaction or stability in a way that allows the relationship to vary depending on the religious composition of the union.

Religiosity has many dimensions, including attendance at religious services, private devotion, and the salience of religion in the individual’s life. The literature contains conflicting findings regarding which of these aspects is most important, and the effects associated with the various dimensions are not always consistent. Research seeking to clarify these differences and to identify patterns among the discrepant results would be desirable.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2614329/
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 120
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History
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 2/17/2018 6:09:34 PM

Life is complex, and complicated. Billions of pieces of information must be organized and properly aligned for even the simplest life form to exist.

Learn About Prokaryotic Cells: https://www.thoughtco.com/prokaryotes-meaning-373369


First, this allegedly fine-tuned universe had to have been created from absolutely nothing

When science talks about nothing, in the sense of the creation of the universe, it never means absolutely nothing.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2016/09/22/what-is-the-physics-of-nothing/#329cd6fd75f8


Second, the animation of inanimate matter had to occur.

You do know we are all made of metals, silicon, and chemicals? And you know that all chemicals need is to bond to form 'things' -that's how water was 'invented'.
Amino acids are thought to be the catalyst for life, all these chemicals were busy making the atmosphere and then somehow amino acids came to be: https://www.windows2universe.org/earth/Life/miller_urey.html >>They found that several organic amino acids had formed spontaneously from inorganic raw materials.<<


However, if you don’t have the time, I can briefly summarize the content this way — organic chemists are not close to explaining how life could have formed by accident or good luck. For the first cell to form, complex compounds such as lipids and enzymes would need to precede them in existence. Much more than the minimal raw ingredients for a cell were necessary to exist prior to the cell becoming able to form.

They were close in the 1950s, read the above link to Miller.


Here is the fatal flaw in evolution theory: the natural product of abiogenesis could only have been a single-celled organism that reproduced asexually, which means it would have had to clone itself. But from where did the germs or bacteria come? The only logical answer to that question is also the simplest: abiogenesis must have happened at least twice.

We evolved from prokaryotes: https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/_0/endosymbiosis_03
 hopefulhunk
Joined: 3/29/2016
Msg: 121
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 2/17/2018 7:04:45 PM
Awwww... everyone knows our planet was seeded with space bears.
"They" let us evolve for a while... then came back and provided that ever elusive missing link.

Our current population was almost extinguished about 14, 000years ago. And again about 12, 000 years ago.
That's why the mayan calendar is only about 2012 years long.
Also why the ancient stone monuments have differing types or stages of work and writing.
Very little survives * some of the times they come.

"They" orbit around us every 2000 years or so.
Some of them live here full time too.
Different species too. 11- 20 depending.

We have the obvious zodiac signs variety.. and quite a few exotics.
They all have differing agendas. All different traits..
Yet we are all just "people".

My maths aren't the greatest... but
If my calculations are correct....
They will be here tomorrow or thursday.


Only those with the proper amounts of frop in their system
will be allowed aboard the mothership.

As everyone knows... frop (havafropzopzipulop) is high grade marijuana.

So... with a little evil laughter... and hand wringing...
Come! Join us my brothers and sisters!
Help us do battle with these aluminum nazi space hell creatures together.
Wooohohahahaha....
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 122
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History
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 2/18/2018 5:53:37 AM
I should've put chemical elements instead of chemicals in my previous, sorry for any confusion.
 Inicia
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 123
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 2/23/2018 8:42:35 AM
so many babbles:- eggs are horrible to eat, diet changes cancer probabilities, blood letting, maggots to eat infection or clean wounds(actually returning to this practice), we don't need to wash our hands or have sanitary conditions in the medical field/beta-dine, alcohol, peroxide, antibacterials, antibiotics, back to good old soap and water, liquor prevents hypothermia, radium as a new health product for consumption, this new wonder drug- woops it's side effects are worse than the illness- maybe deadly or extremely damaging, radiation causes cancer- but treats cancer...pesticides, genetic alterations (plants, animals,humans), humans will never fly the skies-or hit the moon, news will never be spread around world in seconds, we cannot talk to our neighbors here or around world without delay or scripting/literacy ability- democracy represents everybody- capitalism allows all equal possibilities, determining valued humanity by gender, ethnicity/"race"(sic), sexual orientation, religion, creed, nation, age, ability, class- valuing one form of life over another, the earth is flat, earth as the center, sun is the center, etc...pick a babble that works for self- so many choices.

any bachelors degree provides one with the education to manipulate statistics-if you fail this- probably should not have the degree- lol
 Inicia
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 124
A fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution
Posted: 2/23/2018 9:12:16 AM
We must examine the term "evolution" https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2015/05/08/evolution-etymology/
literally an unrolling into a sense of "order" . Therefore; indeed no beginning is even implied-searching for a lineal point of beginning A to an end point B- binary: clearly is human's corruption of existence-
humans' forcing "temporal, lineal, binary" corrupted thoughts unto existence-
"it is- i am"...no past or future implied...
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