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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem      Home login  
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 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 26
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthemPage 2 of 44    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)

Basically they are saying police brutality only happens to black people. And that it is caused by white racism. Which is incorrect.


No they aren't... clearly you cannot understand the message... which is... "Police brutality, especially fatal brutality, happens to minority Americans at a disproportionate level compared white Americans and THIS is racist by it's very nature"...

They are completely correct in this...

Police brutality happens to people of all races and is caused by corruption.

Corruption... by itself... does NOT account for the disproportionate application of "police brutality"... towards minority Americans... Brutality which is also disproportionately fatal... when applied to minority Americans...

It isn't JUST about "simple brutality"... the "corruption of power"... as you seem to believe... It's about the disproportionate application of that brutality... and the disproportionately fatal nature of it... towards identifiable minorities...

Yes... the "corruption of power" must be guarded against... but typically... the worst... most eggregious applications must be dealt with first... as they typically involve motivations beyond just the "corruption of power"...

And I strongly suspect that your unwillingness... or inability... to perceive this distinction... is deliberate...
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 27
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:26:44 AM

It's clear that you'd believe anything, which you were told to believe, absent of any form of critical analysis.


That is one thing I find amusing about you. . . you really think you are a critical thinker when nothing could be further from the truth.



So... you "believe" you have "a right to freedom of speech"... on a privately-owned internet forum... but those engaged in a public event... do not have that same right because... "they are disrespectful" of something you hold dear...


What the fuk are you talking about? KJ has always stood for free speech on these forums and I have never heard her intimate any opinions against Free Speech in a public event. I don't get her support of a vile man like Trump, but that's another issue.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 28
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:37:03 AM

Hmmm. Interesting, Joe.

"So... you "believe" you have "a right to freedom of speech"... on a privately-owned internet forum... but those engaged in a public event... do not have that same right because... "they are disrespectful" of something you hold dear..."


So...Who is the "You" in this statement? Mr. Pig? Who "believes" this?


So... you cannot generate even a pathetic defense of... "We live in a society of....Free speech for ME but not for THEE!"... stupidity...

Certainly would explain why you choose... instead... to question what was said... about things you didn't say... rather than defend your own nonsense...
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 29
view profile
History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:37:20 AM
NY58 wrote:


Mind you, this isn't about President Trump.
Well, he's made it about him though.


This disrespect started under the Obama Administration with Colin Kaepernick taking a knee during our national anthem. It was also followed by him wearing socks to practice that depicted pigs wearing cop uniforms. If anything it would be a reflection of Obama being anti-cop.
...LOL....Trying to blame this on Obama? Nice gumby twisting there, lol.


Really, how do you sit or kneel on the field during our anthem while the flag is on the field with our military and sometimes military personnel are singing The Anthem? Football is called a Pastime because it is used to pass time when people want to relax, and they don't want to see politics inserted into football that is meant to be entertainment, while these players are free to protest at police stations or to their senators or congressmen or women.
Personally I think the reason those vets fought was to protect speech like Kaepernick's. And keep in mind that the military PAYS , using taxpayer $$$, the NFL for all those military displays before games. And arranged for the players to be on the field during the anthem only since 2009. This smacks of fascist propaganda....the soft selling of belligerent nationalism. In other words, it's just another commercial, highly choreographed, and most Americans don't even realize it.

While I think the focus of the kneeling protests is a bit misguided...I believe the erosion of Affirmative Action is more important than the cops beating up black people...many of whom were behaving badly in the first place, and whites would probably would have been beaten in the same situations also.....(OK I will accept incoming arrows on that one, and readily admit I am a white guy who does not have to worry about being beat up by a cop....and I acknowledge the sordid history between blacks and cops)....but .....BUT..........I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for Kaepernick. We actually need more Colin Kaepernicks out there, willing to make REAL sacrifices for positive social and cultural change. I mean, that's what the civil rights battle was all about, sacrificing safety in the face of ferocious danger...to effect change. Not many folks have the courage anymore to do that...we're too comfy. How much positive change would happen if more athletes spoke up like Kaep, instead of taking the rich man's $$ and STFU'ing?

How many folks in power out there, talk the talk but don't walk the walk???? Just because it costs them money or comfort? Al Gore preaches the danger of climate change but lives in a giant mansion. Refuses to sacrifice the comfort. Trump preaching about the dangers of immigration yet hires immigrants profusely. Refuses to sacrifice the profits. Federal government hating Texans with their hands out to the federal government for natural disaster funding. Federal government loving Dems fighting federal laws against sanctuary cities. Nobody wants to live the values they spout ad nauseum, they want someone else to. Cuz it costs them comfort, security, or $$$. ALthough I don't agree with him 100%, and I always thought he was over rated as a player....we need more Colin Kaepernicks.

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/yp89dj/stephen-a-smith-points-out-nfls-paid-patriotism-problem
 LLove2LaughToo
Joined: 6/6/2016
Msg: 30
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:40:14 AM

Msg: 16
Your current president "disrespected" the office of president, by claiming, for years, that the previous legitimate president wasn't an American, and was "secretly" a "Muslim",

He "disrespected" your country by dodging the draft, and by doing so, also refusing to salute your flag.

He "disrespected" your country when he called generals and veterans; "losers".

And you ALL "disrespect" your country, if you voted for that idiotic, orange, thatched sex-pest, who brings your country into even more disrepute, every time he opens his mouth, on "the world stage".

If you elected an idiot to be your "mouthpiece", then what does that "say about you"?

News is emerging today, that seemingly, almost everyone in trump's WH entourage, sons, daughter, daughter-in-law, Bannion..... were using private email servers to conduct govt business".

It's truly laughable to watch people attempting to defend this buffoon.

The levels of "cognitive dissonance" required to overlook his obvious deficiency as a human being, never mind as a president, are truly staggering.


Very well said, selective outrage indeed.

Trump followers are so far up Trump's ass that they are blindly worshipping him, missing the premise behind the protests in the first place: calling out against systemic racism.

That Trump took the time to not only call these men “sons of ****es,” but called for their firing and for a boycott of the NFL, shows exactly how horribly divisive he can be.

Racism is why Kaepernick knelt during the anthem. Racism is why police violence continues to disproportionately take the lives of countless black men and women, a reason Kaepernick specifically gave for why he protested to begin with.

If this is really about respect for the flag, why didn't Trump call for those young white males in Charlottesville who were marching with the confederate and nazi flag to be fired from their jobs?

We have white men in America who wave the nazi flag and the confederate flag, and he is concerned about taking a knee because it disrespects this flag.


It's not about respect for the flag, it's about fanning the flames of racial hatred. He is playing plantation politics.

Trump knows that his presidency is practically over and his reputation is forever stained so he is trying to destroy everything around.

He's so full of shit his eyes are brown!

MAGA – Morons Are Governing America.


Here are some things that Americans do on a regular basis that are considered disrespectful according to the Flag Code:

“The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free.”

That means every American flag swimsuit, button-up shirt, and even those famous Old Navy flag shirts, can be considered disrespectful.

“It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.”

Sorry to put a damper on probably every Fourth of July cookout ever, but if the paper plate supporting that juicy burger has a flag on it, the Flag Code says that’s disrespectful.

“The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever.”

If a business or company is using a flag in its advertisements, that’s yet another disrespectful gesture. A flag printed on a disposable flier is probably a double offense.

“No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.”

It seems like sports teams are running afoul of the guidelines by putting the flag on uniforms. The only way to respectfully wear the American flag on a costume is with a “patch” on the side of the uniform for service members, firefighters and police officers, according to the code.
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 31
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:42:30 AM
^^^^ It is sad how so many simply have no concept about the Right to Free Speech, what it means. It surely doesn't mean its not allowed if somebody is offended or its only okay if I agree with your viewpoint.

Take Elphaba and Hopeless and Herod.... vile individuals in my opinion, but I still support their rights to say what they want, even if they are factually and philosophically wrong about almost everything.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 32
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:44:36 AM

KJ has always stood for free speech on these forums


And you seem to admire people... who "stand for"... imaginary... and non-existent "rights"...

Certainly explains your support for Israeli gov't actions and policies...
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 33
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:51:22 AM

And you seem to admire people... who "stand for"... imaginary... and non-existent "rights"...


Really... can you name one person I admire and one "imaginary or non-existent right" they stand for? If you are talking about Netanyahu.....yea I admire him. He gave up a very lucrative career in the US to become a commando and fight for his homeland. How can a person not respect that? He also believes in the rights of all Israeli citizens, Muslim and non-muslim.... he does not believe in the right of terrorists to kill people though. What a Pity....Israel defends itself. So sad.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 34
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:53:09 AM

Does anybody stand up for the national anthem when it's on your television screen?

Now there's something to ponder. If those who are so up in arms about respect being shown during the anthem, is it only respect when everyone else is watching? Are those same people when at home and not personally in the stands, not standing with hand over heart being hypocritical? This really reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AegLdB7UI4U Mindless social conformity, and in the case of standing for the anthem, mindless traditional social conformity.

It reminds me of one specific time I saw a televised prayer that Trump was attending. He was busy jutting his chin out to straighten out his double chin, then stared out at the crowd vacuously before realizing no one was looking at him and had a look of "oops, I'm supposed to be bowing my head". No conviction - just social conformity.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 35
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 9:11:14 AM
"Does anybody stand up for the national anthem when it's on your television screen?"

>>>good point. Trevor Noah brought up an also interesting thought last night on the Daily Show, how soldiers who used to fight for the Confederate Flag, shot at flag bearers on the field of battle who waved the American flag. Is celebrating an enemy flag, At Charlotteville and at NASCAR tracks, patriotic? Why are they good people and not sons of bitches? How far do we wish to take this? Should the flag be used as an article of clothing?

https://www.collinsflags.com/blog/flag-etiquette/can-wear-american-flag-clothing?doing_wp_cron=1506439697.5149159431457519531250

I'll jump out on a limb and say Affirmative Action (since it got mentioned) is probably the best form of "reparations", under the whole idea of "give a man a fish, feed him for a day" premise.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 36
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 9:14:14 AM
LGL


are whites too scared to do anything about their abuse by the police?

not kneel down at games but anything?


i was trying to find a youtube video of a white guy being abused by the police but there are so many of latinos, blacks and asians ( largely not publicized) that i am still looking.


-----
gto
so people who fought in the civil war now attend nascar?


affirmative actions benefits white women more than any other grouo, so . . .they can let that go.

 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 37
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 9:33:42 AM
"Certainly would explain why you choose... instead... to question what was said... about things you didn't say... rather than defend your own nonsense.."

Sorry Joe. That would be an incorrect assumption on your part.

In your msg. 20...you start with "you both" then move to "you"...and now you are assigning a deeper meaning for my question of clarification????

Alrighty...then. :)


And....as for this?

"We live in a society of....Free speech for ME but not for THEE!".


I need no defense...pathetic or otherwise. I stand by it. Exactly as it is written.
 LGL1975
Joined: 6/7/2015
Msg: 38
view profile
History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 10:07:18 AM
The problem is that the US government is corrupt and uses dangerous psychopaths to provide "law enforcement".

Pretending this is the fault of poor white people who are racist is just a trick to divide and mislead the opposition.

Trump says racist things to trigger liberals. Obama hugs black criminals to trigger the right. Divide and conquer.
 ThePigOfYourDreams
Joined: 6/30/2017
Msg: 39
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 10:10:09 AM

So... you "believe" you have "a right to freedom of speech"... on a privately-owned internet forum... but those engaged in a public event... do not have that same right because... "they are disrespectful" of something you hold dear...


Neither one of us said this, you f*cking cretin. This site being privately owned has nothing to do with the blatant hypocrisy of someone who would normally cry "free speech!!" from the mountain tops deciding to silence someone else. The owner of the site had no part in the actual voting down , it was the supposed "free speech" supporters. Sure, the owners also implemented the feature to allow this, but is that really something a free speech supporter should be utilizing simply because they didn't like what was posted?

There has been no shortage of garbage posts on these forums, yet not ONCE have I ever decided to vote for one to be removed.


Talk about the "definition of irony"... and "hypocrisy"... Both of you have finally achieved the "stupid fvck" level of awareness... with those two comments...


Oh, look. We've got an internet bad ass over here. Speaking of achieving, I sincerely hope you manage to find a bar of soap one day.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 40
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 10:21:40 AM

"We live in a society of....Free speech for ME but not for THEE!".


I need no defense...pathetic or otherwise. I stand by it. Exactly as it is written.

So... explain how it applies... in the context it was mentioned... the "irony" of... "voting to delete" while defending "take a knee"... given that one is a right that is ordinarily only subject to being relinquished by agreement... and the other a privilege ordinarily subject to the privileges of others...

Or do you have some "special" meaning behind... "Free speech for ME but not for THEE!"... that you haven't yet bothered to share with us...?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 41
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 10:35:38 AM

Neither one of us said this, you f*cking cretin.


Really...?!?

Then perhaps you might want to "compare and contrast" that with... this little explanation of "what you meant" by it...

This site being privately owned has nothing to do with the blatant hypocrisy of someone who would normally cry "free speech!!" from the mountain tops deciding to silence someone else. The owner of the site had no part in the actual voting down , it was the supposed "free speech" supporters. Sure, the owners also implemented the feature to allow this, but is that really something a free speech supporter should be utilizing simply because they didn't like what was posted?

You sure are going to great lengths... to characterize posting on a privately-owned forum... as a question of "free speech"...

And even more interestingly... you acknowledge that no such right exists here... that it is a granted privilege... not a right... but still continue to argue as if it were something else...

I think THAT comes much closer to... "irony"... than what you claim does...

It seems to me... to be increasingly clear... that you are one of those who conflate "right to free speech"... with an imagined "right to be listened to"... and an imagined "right to be taken seriously"...

There has been no shortage of garbage posts on these forums, yet not ONCE have I ever decided to vote for one to be removed.

And your point is...???
 ThePigOfYourDreams
Joined: 6/30/2017
Msg: 42
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 1:08:20 PM

Really...?!?


Are you really this f*cking dense, Dumbojoe?? Apparently, you're yet another dumbass here who doesn't give a flying shit about making any logical sense in their replies, just puking up a collection of words.

This was never about whether free speech applies here or not, it's about the mindset and actions of someone who normally cries for free speech, but wishes to silence another. If you're opposed to violence, are you suddenly going to become a serial killer if murder became legal?? Bottom line - don't go against your beliefs to be an ***hole just because the opportunity presents itself.


And your point is...???


That's how someone who truly believes in free speech operates. Do you need everything explained to you?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 43
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 1:38:43 PM

it's about the mindset and actions of someone who normally cries for free speech, but wishes to silence another.

But that in itself necessitates a belief... that starting a thread is tantamount to "free speech"... Logically, it is the only way "voting to delete" can be against "free speech"... and especially so... if it is a question of "mindset"...

If you're opposed to violence, are you suddenly going to become a serial killer if murder became legal??

If you are opposed to violence, are you going to passively allow someone to kill you, even though it is legal to defend yourself with violence...?

Doesn't that depend on... a "mindset"... that sees legal violence in self defense... as exactly the same as... illegal violence...?

Bottom line - don't go against your beliefs to be an ***hole just because the opportunity presents itself.

And that just brings us back to point number one... the "voting to delete" privilege... can only be "anti-free speech"... if the "posting a thread" privilege... is a question of "free speech"... and it isn't...

That's how someone who truly believes in free speech operates. Do you need everything explained to you?

Well... given how you have managed to twist, tangle and distort what "free speech" is... I would have to say... yeah... every time you say "free speech"... you're going to have to explain what you mean...

Because to be honest... I'm getting that whole... "How dare you tell me my opinion is wrong when I have a right to free speech" vibe from you...

If that seems a little cryptic to you... it comes from the early days of the POF forums... like 10 years ago...
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 44
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 1:40:52 PM

And that just brings us back to point number one... the "voting to delete" privilege... can only be "anti-free speech"... if the "posting a thread" privilege... is a question of "free speech"... and it isn't...


Actually it is an issue of Free Speech, and "voting to delete" indeed is anti-free speech if deleted because the person does not like the political content expressed in the post. Just because this is a private board and therefore issues of free speech cannot be enforced does not mean the right to free speech is not being abridged. I thought you were bright enough to get this?

Certainly when salinges long ago was terminated because he had the audacity to ruffle the feathers of females who did not like his expressed opinions about feminists... they were indeed prohibiting free speech. That they were given the right to do so by the misbegotten will of the administrators did not change the concept in the least.
 from site to sight
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 45
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 1:44:13 PM
It will be interesting to see what Trump says (or more specifically, Tweets) next about the NFL, since his childish rant-calling them SOB's and they should be fired-has backfired on him, and has united the players in defiance instead.
 benartflick
Joined: 3/8/2012
Msg: 46
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 1:45:47 PM
Dee, I thought you and Kj were two of our brightest members. She might be a Republican, grrrrrrr, and a woman, I believe I'm still right about Kj.


"...are whites too scared to do anything about their abuse by the police?"


Ya got any suggestions?

You're aware that plenty of cops have gotten away with murder - right? Even a make believe cop, Zimmerman, got away with murdering a black teenager. Of course, if someone believes the man firing the gun was screaming for help 4 seconds and one second prior to pulling the trigger, nothing is gonna change his or her mind.


"i was trying to find a youtube video of a white guy being abused by the police"

Dee, did your nose grow a little while writing that? If you tried, I'm sure you would have noticed a recent video of a cop shooting a white homeless man 6 or 7 times. Be honest. Don't mimic our media.

I was criminally assaulted by cops 3 times prior to my 19th birthday. Twice while they tried to beat a confession out of me and once trying to get me to take them to my friend's going away party (the idiot joined the marines and I - another idiot - admitted I had a couple of beers - I was only 18 - I guess a serious crime at the time).

Ya think cops should be allowed to beat-up teenagers? Obviously our mucking politicians do.

Here's a brief video of cops beating whites and blacks, men and women.

https://youtu.be/BpXzl2Madpk
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 47
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 1:49:06 PM
^^^^

I was criminally assaulted by cops 3 times prior to my 19th birthday. Twice while they tried to beat a confession out of me and once trying to get me to take them to my friend's going away party (the idiot joined the marines and I - another idiot - admitted I had a couple of beers - I was only 18 - I guess a serious crime at the time).


Hundred to one you are once again totally full of shit. Do cops beat up and abuse white people? Of course they do. Do they do so under the circumstances you claim? Highly unlikely. Three times? Virtually impossible.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 48
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 1:49:24 PM

Just because this is a private board and therefore issues of free speech cannot be enforced does not mean the right to free speech is not being abridged.

Ummm... the "right of free speech"... CANNOT be abridged... in ANY context where... a "right of free speech" does not exist...

To assert otherwise... is to suggest that... you can be charged with speeding in Ohio... because you flew over a portion of highway at 26,000 mph... while in orbit... (I chose Ohio because I can see the Ohio State Highway Patrol actually trying that)...

I thought you were bright enough to get this?

Hmmm... and to imagine... I've not thought you to be "bright enough"... period...

Funny how that works...
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 49
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 1:51:04 PM
^^^^


I was criminally assaulted by cops 3 times prior to my 19th birthday. Twice while they tried to beat a confession out of me and once trying to get me to take them to my friend's going away party (the idiot joined the marines and I - another idiot - admitted I had a couple of beers - I was only 18 - I guess a serious crime at the time).


Hundred to one you are once again totally full of shit. Do cops beat up and abuse white people? Of course they do. Do they do so under the circumstances you claim? Highly unlikely. Three times? Virtually impossible.

And what to "mucking politicians" have to do with it. Have they passed laws I don't know about suggesting the cops beat up teenagers for non-serious crimes in the manner you have suggested... non-stop, pathological lying.... so sad.
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 50
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 1:57:45 PM

Ummm... the "right of free speech"... CANNOT be abridged... in ANY context where... a "right of free speech" does not exist...


Yea genius, the "right" to Free Speech can be abridged, and has been abridged many times on this board. .... doesn't have to be a legal or enforceable right.. but it is a fundamental right that all men have by the inherent grace of being born a thinking, human being. The right to give political opinions on an open forum such as this one should not be abridged.... PERIOD, with the exception that there are opinions that may be so offensive they are meant for no other purpose but to disrupt the free flow of information. But where is that line drawn? That line can be drawn the same way we draw a line at pornography. We know it when we see it.
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