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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem      Home login  
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 butheremails
Joined: 11/1/2017
Msg: 551
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthemPage 23 of 44    (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44)

Why is patriotism even being linked to sporting events?


Because it have been used as a recruiting tool for a while now.


Why are we playing the national anthem before football games?

See above.




What does one have to do with the other? nothing.


Correct, they are not related, but some people just look for an excuse to be offended.

They will even go as far to claim that exercising your freedoms is some how an attack on your freedoms, so at the end of the day you are dealing with people that are not the smartest of the bunch.
 from site to sight
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 552
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/10/2017 7:26:10 PM
Millions of people watch sporting events on TV. When the national anthem is played and televised, how many people watching at home or at the local watering hole remove their ball caps and stand at attention while the anthem is being played? Are the TV viewers who don't stand being disrespectful to the military and the government, since people are suppose to be patriotic at all times? I'm surprised Trump hasn't demanded that TV viewers be fired if they don't stand at attention in their living rooms when the anthem is being played. Because Trump is a crazy loony toon, I wouldn't put it past him to try to make it law-that people are ordered to stand at attention or face consequences-no matter if they're at home or in public.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 553
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/11/2017 4:14:22 AM

"Explain to all of us Johnny, what the national anthem has to do with the military??????"



Is this a serious question or a mistype, Walts



How many soldiers hum their national anthem as the bullets whistle over their heads while they take aim themselves?

I would love for some of you to articulate what the national anthem actually means to them, or actually is. Along with any flag of any country it is basically a symbol of representation. A representation of a country and it's people, maybe????? But, some have now attached the "military" to the American one. Just the "military"??????

When you listen to it, is the military the first thing you envision? Or do you think of the caskets draped in the red, white and blue? Or do you think of the PEOPLE living within your country? Or is just those of that are in the military that "serve"? No others???? Or is it the land within the boundary lines drawn in the sand? Or is it your way of life?

Patriotism is a funny thing. But, American Patriotism is something to really study and view. Even questioning it will and can, get many to expose an self inflated ego that gets you into more trouble than it should.

Football players are exposing it, and it seems many of you can't even see that.

AMERICAN football.

Not soccer.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 554
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/11/2017 5:40:03 AM
^

spot on post.....by Walts

`````````````````````````````````````````````````

#552 says


Millions of people watch sporting events on TV. When the national anthem is played and televised, how many people watching at home or at the local watering hole remove their ball caps and stand at attention while the anthem is being played? Are the TV viewers who don't stand being disrespectful to the military and the government, since people are suppose to be patriotic at all times?


You would find it easier to swat a fly with blindfolds on...then to expect a Trumptard to understand the above statement
 John252817
Joined: 8/24/2016
Msg: 555
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/11/2017 6:19:17 AM
"Malcolm Jenkins, safety for the Philadelphia Eagles, supported Kaepernick's message but said, "My grandfather served [in the military]. And this is a country that I love. So, me not standing for the national anthem isn't really going to get me the results that I want."

^^^^^^^Spot on!! And the post above talking about standing for the anthem while watching on tv? YIKES!!! Getting very stupid in here, didn't think it would get this bad as far as "reaching" for excuses.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 556
view profile
History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/11/2017 8:27:57 AM
"All present" should stand.

The US Flag Code stipulates:

§171. Conduct during playing

During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 557
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/11/2017 8:47:45 AM
^
cherry picking codes.. that's just so unpatriotic

for shame


"The truth is that Henry Wallace and former President Roosevelt have advocated supplementing our political Bill of Rights with an economic charter of rights, so that Fascism will not slip up on us wrapped in the flag and traveling in the name of “free enterprise.”
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 558
view profile
History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/11/2017 9:23:21 AM
Well John, my son and sons-in-law watch football all the time, all lifers and have served in several dangerous areas overseas, and they don't give a damn about standing, sitting, or kneeling of football players. That's not what their yreas of military service means to them. Most of their military friends seem to care either, they want the players to play a good game, not pretend to be honoring the military. It's rather odd to get all foaming at the mouth over this, sounds much more like Trump's deflecting to get away with things that are actually a threat to our nation.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 559
view profile
History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/11/2017 10:24:58 AM
Day, do your children connect with being American? Some people more connect with their heritage.

I think the point is being missed that it doesn't matter if the players are patriotic, it doesn't matter whether the anthem should be played or not during a sports game, what matters is that it is being played and people need to stand. All of this is common sense. If I were to attend a sports event in another country, and they play their anthem where everyone stood, I would be standing too out of respect.
 John252817
Joined: 8/24/2016
Msg: 560
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/11/2017 11:29:55 AM
" It's rather odd to get all foaming at the mouth over this"

^^^^^^^Dayna, pretty low, pretty disrespectful for the millions of veterans who do care whether a player kneels or stands during the anthem. Your family has their right and then there are the millions who have theirs. Please don't be a hypocrite and disrespect veterans who feel how they feel!!
 butheremails
Joined: 11/1/2017
Msg: 561
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/11/2017 11:50:21 AM

cherry picking codes.. that's just so unpatriotic


They can not help themselves as they are struggling to come up with something that offends them.

The best part if you just have to point out that the flag code is not enforceable and that the flag code gets broken on a regular basis like here, so I ask where is the outrage?

US Flag Code Chapter 10.176J “No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform.”

https://twitter.com/koopa_kinte/status/911717462441365504/photo/1


US Flag Code Chapter 10.176I (pt3) “...or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.”

https://twitter.com/koopa_kinte/status/911716800584437760/photo/1

etc....



So when you see that they ignore these but get their panties in a bunch because someone did something they do not like, you can only assume they are stupid people following the direction of a bigger idiot or they are straight up fascists and think that the government should force you to do thing.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


^^^^^^^Dayna, pretty low, pretty disrespectful for the millions of veterans who do care whether a player kneels or stands during the anthem.


Aside from that fact you just made that up, is it respectful to the millions of veterans to dodge the draft with bone sprurs or is that kind of stuff not as important as standing?

I look forward to your deflection johnny and do not worry, I got all kinds of ti,e.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 562
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/11/2017 3:07:55 PM
i am not for the sitting or kneeling more than once or twice but it seems to be doing something interesting.


it is particularly agitating the people who think that police are always right and that they "deserve" whatever the police do.


think you are agitated.
huh

imgine how the feel subject to beating, arrest and death simply because they wwb or dwb.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 563
view profile
History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/11/2017 10:40:03 PM
Do my children connect with being Americans? What the hell are you talking about? Being lifers in the military is pretty damn connected don't you think?

John, you are ridiculous. I'm talking about knowing a lot of active military who don't think a bunch of football players are honoring or dishonoring the people in the military if they stand or kneel or sit down. We stand, we like the ritual, but no is required to do it.
 9Pluto
Joined: 10/15/2007
Msg: 564
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History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/12/2017 12:16:06 AM
Though not relevant in the US, it is interesting to look at the law regarding the respect for the anthem, the flag and various other patriotic symbols in Mexico.

Mexican law requires all citizens to stand with hand over the heart when the anthem is rendered, with other requirements, and to respect the flag in essentially the same way as the US codes quoted by others here. In public institutions such as schools, time is specifically allotted for the purpose of respecting the anthem and flag by federal law, on a weekly basis. The patriotic symbols are considered unassailable.

The penalty for not saluting the flag or standing for the national anthem is 250 work days of salary paid at minimum wage, and this is a particularly severe penalty considering the mean standard of living. It converts at the moment to about USD $2000.00. If it is a violation by a business, that increases to 1,000 workdays of salary, or about US $8000.00. Also, provisions to keep offenders in jail for a term of 36 hours for any of the patriotic symbol offenses are included as well.

The freedoms in the Mexican Constitution is essentially the same as the US, since ours was their model, with the only two stark exceptions being the near prohibition to bear arms, and one additional instrument available to the parties to address the judiciary if the party alleges judicial misconduct.

9
 John252817
Joined: 8/24/2016
Msg: 565
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/12/2017 8:27:25 AM
Nothing ridiculous at all dayna, every vet has the right to stand or kneel, I just know there are millions who feel that standing is to respect the flag. I am happy to see that the NFL is having a problem with this, they are an employer who is losing millions and continues to be hypocritical. YIKES!!!
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 566
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/12/2017 8:47:30 AM
Steph Curry said it best, as for the NFL losing money. .. it absolutely has something to do with:


Among NFL players, that percentage shot all the way up to 99 percent. In fact, only one of the 111 deceased NFL players analyzed did not have CTE. But it's not just NFL players who are at risk. Among college football players involved in the study, 91 percent were diagnosed with CTE.


Curry went on to discuss the conversations he’s had with veterans, all of whom have said athletes’ recent protests aren’t disrespectful to them:

“And every single veteran I’ve spoken to, they’ve all said pretty much the exact same thing: That this conversation we’ve started to have in the world of sports … whether it’s been Colin kneeling, or entire NFL teams finding their own ways to show unity, or me saying that I didn’t want to go to the White House — it’s the opposite of disrespectful to them.”
“A lot of them have said, that even if they don’t totally agree with every position of every person, this is exactly the thing that they fought to preserve: the freedom of every American to express our struggles, our fears, our frustrations, and our dreams for a more equal society.”
 John252817
Joined: 8/24/2016
Msg: 567
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/12/2017 8:52:38 AM
Modal Trigger Wall Street vets are threatening to pull the plug on the NFL

NATIONAL ANTHEM PROTESTS

Group calls for boycott of NFL on Veterans Day Weekend

Labeling Vin Scully a racist is a new low point

NFL issues making it hard for owner to sell Tennessee Titans

Jerry Jones hired Harvey Weinstein's lawyer to bury Roger Goodell
Wall Street veterans are huddling up against the NFL.

Many brokers and bankers — some of whom are also military veterans — have threatened to pull the plug on pro football for not reining in players who are using the American national anthem as an opportunity to protest by taking the knee.

And as the protests gather steam this weekend, some vets of the financial markets — a huge employer of former US military service personnel, have unleashed a barrage of criticism in response and could be counted among the estimated 2 million fewer viewers over the first three weeks of the season.


The NFL protests should stop, these Street vets say — or else.

“I am going to be flat-out honest — I think the players should be standing up for the anthem. They can lock arms all right, but they shouldn’t be bringing politics into the sport like this,” Chris McCormick, a sales trader at a derivatives broker in New York, told The Post.

There’s more at stake than sharp barbs in this pushback from the masters of the universe.

The NFL is starting to feel the financial whiplash from Wall Street. Some of the highest rollers at the games these days are deal-makers and stock traders who unwind in the best stadium suites, sponsor the NFL and bankroll the franchise by buying blocks of season tickets.

“Of course we should respect the American flag,” said John O’Shea, New York-based chairman of Global Alliance Securities, who has season tickets to the Giants.

O’Shea did not dispute a player’s constitutional right to protest and he hasn’t shredded his season tickets just yet.

But McCormick is having none of it. “I am now watching way less games than I ever had,” he said.

And other Street vets are not holding back either.

“Dragging the national anthem into an anti-President Trump message is very disrespectful to our military veterans,” said financial expert Hughey Newsome, a consultant for

MorganFranklin, referring to the firestorm that erupted when the president publicly attacked NFL national anthem protests more than a week ago. “The protests are doing a humongous disservice to those who have died in defense of this land, and in defense of everything we stand for,” Newsome added.

Newsome, an African-American, is a member of the influential Project 21 black leadership network, sponsored by the National Center for Public Policy Research.

The conservative coalition says NFL players “kneel and protest at their peril.” And it warns of economic consequences if the protests don’t end — noting how anger over the protests has trickled down to businesses that make money through their NFL affiliation.

Project 21 said sponsor boycotts are also being organized. “Just as people have a right to express their First Amendment concerns, other people have a right to vote with their dollars,” Newsome said.

On Thursday, Allan Jones, founder of Check Into Cash, said that he is pulling all commercials for his lending companies during NFL games for the rest of the season.

In other fallout, DirecTV said it will refund subscribers of its NFL Sunday Ticket package if they are opposed to the protests.
 butheremails
Joined: 11/1/2017
Msg: 568
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/12/2017 8:56:55 AM

Mexican law requires all citizens to stand with hand over the heart when the anthem is rendered, with other requirements, and to respect the flag in essentially the same way as the US codes quoted by others here.


Wow that sounds strict, shame you either just made that up or copied from a site that did not check the actual facts.

As Article 45 says that those who are watching the national anthem performance must stand at attention and remove any headgear.

Nothing about hand over heart, though there is a good chance you are getting the regulations when a flag is being paraded around and not the anthem sung. This salute is known as the El saludo civil a la Bandera Nacional ("The Civil Salute to the National Flag")





The penalty for not saluting the flag or standing for the national anthem is 250 work days of salary paid at minimum wage, and this is a particularly severe penalty considering the mean standard of living. It converts at the moment to about USD $2000.00. If it is a violation by a business, that increases to 1,000 workdays of salary, or about US $8000.00. Also, provisions to keep offenders in jail for a term of 36 hours for any of the patriotic symbol offenses are included as well.


This is based on what official information?



Either way if anyone if the USA gets upset about people not standing for the anthem then it is clear they are either as dumb as a box of rocks or they are fascists.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I just know there are millions who feel that standing is to respect the flag.


You hear that folks, johnny knows millions of people, now do not take that literally as it is clear he actually doesn't but he wants you to know he pretends that he does as that is the only way his little brain can justify his lie about the millions.




I am happy to see that the NFL is having a problem with this, they are an employer who is losing millions and continues to be hypocritical. YIKES!!!


How are they being hypocritical?

Now I know you actually can not answer this question but I thought I would just ask for fun as I enjoy watching you fail to back up your claims.
 John252817
Joined: 8/24/2016
Msg: 569
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/12/2017 9:05:34 AM
"How are they being hypocritical?"

^^^^^^^but/LOl/frank/angry atheist, your reading comprehension is lacking severely. Now if you are an 8th grader, then I apologize for saying your reading comprehension is lacking, you definitely have an excuse. I think we can believe the "8th grader" thing....YIKES!!!! Looks like my recommendation to have your mom and dad show you how to use spell check is working....you are so welcome!! Hopefully you can keep it up!! YIKES!!!
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 570
view profile
History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/12/2017 9:10:03 AM
John I didn't say anything about vets standing, I said none of the football players are forced to do so, and yes, foaming at the mouth over football players not acting like the military is utterly ridiculous.
 butheremails
Joined: 11/1/2017
Msg: 571
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/12/2017 9:29:31 AM

^^^^^^^but/LOl/frank/angry atheist, your reading comprehension is lacking severely.


Well duh, that is why I asked you to explain your comment, so I look forward to your reply which should explain what you mean, unless you used a word that you literally do not even know what it means as then I will assume you will go full derp and just try to avoid the question as trying to actually answer it would show just how dim you are.

So let's see how you did, shall we?




Now if you are an 8th grader, then I apologize for saying your reading comprehension is lacking, you definitely have an excuse. I think we can believe the "8th grader" thing....YIKES!!!! Looks like my recommendation to have your mom and dad show you how to use spell check is working....you are so welcome!! Hopefully you can keep it up!! YIKES!!!


So I see you are going to go with the full deflection and in no way explain or back up your claim.

I guess people will have to assume that you used a word that you did not know the meaning of and the only way you could reply was to attempt to insult the person that pointed it out.


Now john there is still ti,e to save face and answer a very simple question, but hurry as that ti,e is running out.
 benartflick
Joined: 3/8/2012
Msg: 572
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/12/2017 10:33:46 AM

I think the point is being missed that it doesn't matter if the players are patriotic, it doesn't matter whether the anthem should be played or not during a sports game, what matters is that it is being played and people need to stand. All of this is common sense. If I were to attend a sports event in another country, and they play their anthem where everyone stood, I would be standing too out of respect.


Finally, a common sense posting that should be easy to understand - even if you live in Texas or Canada.

When Olympic sprinters Tommie Smith and John Carlos stood atop the medal podium at the 1968 Summer Games in Mexico City, bowed their heads and raised black-gloved fists during the playing of the national anthem, millions of their fellow Americans were outraged. They were suspended from the U.S. team.

"We were just human beings who saw a need to bring attention to the inequality in our country," Smith said years later. "I don't like the idea of people looking at it as negative. There was nothing but a raised fist in the air and a bowed head, acknowledging the American flag—not symbolizing a hatred for it."

I was somewhat bothered by what Smith and Carlos did. The football players kneeling didn't annoy me, but it was disrespectful. Whatever their employers decide is fine with me. If one of those players gave a Nazi salute, a few Canadians might want them fired instead of building them a memorial next to their Draft-dodger Memorial.

Once Walts finds out those football players are black, he'll be advocating the death penalty.
 9Pluto
Joined: 10/15/2007
Msg: 573
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History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/12/2017 11:09:02 AM

Wow that sounds strict, shame you either just made that up or copied from a site that did not check the actual facts.

As Article 45 says that those who are watching the national anthem performance must stand at attention and remove any headgear.

Nothing about hand over heart, though there is a good chance you are getting the regulations when a flag is being paraded around and not the anthem sung. This salute is known as the El saludo civil a la Bandera Nacional ("The Civil Salute to the National Flag")

I do not read others' interpretations of laws, so if anyone makes a mistake or is incorrect in the context I take full responsibility. I get the impression non-US citizens are posting here about what US citizens should do, so I think we should be inclusive of customs of respect and penalty in other countries.

You draw a fine line of distinction of playing the anthem when no flag is present. In that case it seems obvious to me there is nothing to salute so I agree with you for that case, and feel it is moot since they explicitly require standing, which is the point of contention here.

In the case of the so-called national anthem protests, I understand them to include the flag and be a homage to it as a patriotic symbol of the USA, as when I have watched TV there is a flag at the center of attention, in the cases I remember during the performance of custom. Kap was clear it was the flag when asked, but the NFL and others have spun it to be the anthem in an attempt to detach the flag. I feel I understand Kap's point of view. The fundamental bases of my amateur opinion on are Articles 9, 11, 14, 42, 45 of the Law of the Nation Seal, Flag, and Anthem (LEY SOBRE EL ESCUDO, LA BANDERA Y EL HIMNO NACIONALES). The penalties I mentioned are fact, or should I say are the Law (Ley), implemented by associated regulations through a competent judge. It is clear to me that if can draw the fine distinction of the anthem with or without the flag under specific circumstance such as a parades, you could find the penalties easy peasy.

I have not expressed an opinion on the appropriation of our national symbols for diverse agendas on the many sides of the aisle. Nor have given my opinion on the commercialization of products such as hotels and used cars with the flag. Just to be clear, I am not interested in polarizing a nation that has been kind to me, but not always. I have no expectations from strangers. My post was made solely to introduce other national views on their symbols just for fun.
cheers

9
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 574
view profile
History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/12/2017 11:40:58 AM
Dayna, I had to ask. I didn't know if your family is close to their roots and relate to that more.

People in other countries have said if their sports players didn't stand for the anthem, they would have beers thrown down on them onto the field.

Pluto, for when the flag is not present:

§171. Conduct during playing

During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.
 toocash
Joined: 9/5/2017
Msg: 575
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 11/12/2017 11:47:28 AM
^^^^ The opinions here of everybody are completely irrelevant as to the rights of the Kneelers...they have a "right" to kneel if they choose to do so, and the government can do nothing about it. As to whether their employers can do anything is a function of their employment contract.

Whether other people are offended by their perception of disrespect to the flag or the anthem is also irrelevant because the right of one to express himself as he chooses in the US is not overridden by the rights of the many who might be offended.

When the US Supreme Ct. overturned a flag burning conviction during the Vietnam War, it pretty much laid down the unassailable law with regard to the Second Amendment. The only way that is going to change is by a NEW constitutional amendment limiting the rights of the Second. Don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

So this is the bottom line.....for those who don't like NFL players Kneeling....tough sh^t....you have nothing to say about the matter that can change the constitutional rights of the kneelers.....You don't like it...boycott the NFL, and maybe the Owners of those teams will lay down their own rules for all future contracts. But the government has no say in matter whatsoever, nor do you... and especially nor does that fat fuk who is currently, but hopefully not for long, our President.
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