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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem      Home login  
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 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 976
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthemPage 40 of 45    (5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45)
"Military members feel disrespected by kneeling during the anthem"

"Smith said that people burning the quarterback’s jersey “with the troops and veterans being the reason seemed ridiculous.” Being used wasn’t a new feeling. Smith said politicians and corporations often use the military and its servicemen and women for promotion. That leaves some veterans, like Smith, feeling like props for people who haven’t made the sacrifice, but want to cloak themselves in their credibility."

https://theundefeated.com/features/an-open-letter-from-american-military-veterans-in-support-of-colin-kaepernick/
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 977
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 7:48:22 AM
This started in the obama era.

It's not just the veterans that feel disrespected, it's military currently serving, including veterans, that say they're being disrespected. No one is speaking for them.
 LDC9999
Joined: 9/16/2017
Msg: 978
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 8:17:38 AM

... it's military currently serving, including veterans, that say they're being disrespected.


And rightly so. Their Commander-in-Chief has been on the job for 18 months and has to make an effort to visit any American base in a foreign country.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 979
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 8:52:32 AM
I don't understand how the military even got involved in this ... other than they are the face of America out there (supposedly) defending our "democracy" ... which clearly gives us the right to protest.

If anything, it seems to me that the military should be proud that the rights they are out there defending are being put to a test/put to good use.

Sooo ... is the military offended:
... when people go out and protest that voter registrations are being scrubbed ... needlessly deleted?
... when people protest against lawmakers who are trying to stifle women's rights in the work place?
... when people protest against lawmakers who are trying to take away the right for women to make decisions about their own bodies?
... when people protest against lawmakers proposing we spend money being spent on needless border walls?
... when people protest against lawmakers who are busy dismantling our precious healthcare law?

I have a lot of military friends (both past and current) and not a single one of them has any problem with those people taking a knee ... not a single one of them has a problem in any way with any kind of protests that occur somewhere here in our country daily ... on various levels.

This is merely something tRump keeps stirring up because he knows the morons who support him haven't got the brains to think this through and see that it is actually UNpatriotic to chastise these men for exercising their constitutional rights. I simply can't imagine being that ignorant ...
 from site to sight
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 980
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 9:05:39 AM

Their Commander-in-Chief has been on the job for 18 months and has to make an effort to visit any American base in a foreign country


Mr. Draft Dodger/"I'm too rich to fight in a war" should go to Afghanistan and visit troops there. But the troops won't know if he is the good guy or bad guy, since Trump has no problem insulting American war vets and gold star families. His fake facade of acting like he is pro military isn't fooling anyone, except the Trumpanzees who are zombies under his spell. Thinking is not their strong suit.

While he's there, Trump can show off his Purple Heart, that was given to him by a supporter and war vet who actually earned it. And Trump should repeat what he said when it was given to him: "I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier" (than serving in combat).
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 981
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History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 9:18:59 AM
Deflection. This has zero to do with Trump.

Military feel the flag represents our country and their fight for freedom where they gave their lives, now these overpaid @sshats want to sh!t on it. Flags drape the coffins of our dead soldiers, they erect them in battle when they conquer. If people want to assert that the flag is meaningless to them, that's their choice.
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 982
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 9:59:22 AM
1) none of the patriot complainers seem to raise the issue of immigrant veterans getting deported after serving this country

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/united-states-deporting-veterans/

https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-06-26/serving-us-military-wont-protect-these-veterans-being-deported

but they may not shed many tears over "Gay veterans" either. Some vets are more equal than others.

2) our Korea War soldiers went over as a UN police action, but I wonder how many of the tin foil hat crowd who cried Bush was bringing the "global plantation" are freaking out now, that the recent remains out of NK are...wrapped in a UN flag, not an American one.

or maybe it doesn't matter b/c its Chump, and all outrage should be selective.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 983
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 10:00:01 AM

This has zero to do with Trump.
Then he needs to stay out of it!


Military feel the flag represents our country and their fight for freedom ...
And our freedom would be challenged if someone came in and took away our right of the freedom to protest. That is what they (our military) should be concerned about ... not people who are exercising their rights in a free democracy.


... where they gave their lives ...
The majority do not "give their lives" in the matter of life or death. They are actively alive and doing the job they signed up to do just as I signed up to be a nurse and am dedicated to my job. Firefighters sign up to do a job and do it as well.

It's actually the job of all US citizens to defend our democratic rights ... not just the military. Without all of us doing our jobs (that we signed up to do), there wouldn't be a need for a military. So it's not just the military who is in charge of defending the constitution ... that job belongs to all of us.

It's also our job to make sure that those who wish to exercise their constitutional rights (to protest despicable behavior) are allowed to do so without threat of harm or chastisement.


... now these overpaid @sshats want to sh!t on it.
They are embracing their right and should not be considered "overpaid @sshats". It occurs to me that only an ignorant "@sshat" like tRump would miss the meaning of what they are doing.


Flags drape the coffins of our dead soldiers, they erect them in battle when they conquer. If people want to assert that the flag is meaningless to them, that's their choice.
The flag represents more than just what you write there ... it represents us all as a group.

Maybe if the military wants to get their "drawers" all in a knot about a few people taking a knee (exercising their rights), they should think about how they act in a foreign country when they are not only ON duty but also while OFF duty.

For example, while ON duty they could refrain from calling soldiers of other countries by despicable names (please tell me you are opposed to them calling Iraqi soldiers "towel heads").

While OFF duty, they could begin by behaving themselves when out and about with the local residents ... by not getting so inebriated that they feel it's okay to take a piss in the public fountains or sexually assault the local women. I have observed both behaviors (first hand) of our service personnel while living a foreign country.

When I lived in that foreign country, I took my responsibility (as a representative of our country) seriously. I was determined to behave appropriately so as not to give my foreign hosts the wrong impression of the US. I met many military personnel in that span of ten years and I can't say the same for them. There were several occasions that I personally stepped up and told them to behave themselves. It was so embarrassing.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 984
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 10:11:07 AM
I don't know what any of that has to do with anything.

These guys can protest. No one is stopping them after work. They have a problem with the police, yet I don't see them going to police stations or anywhere else to protest. What's up with that? Does their motivation stop if it goes beyond kneeling down for a few minutes?

 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 985
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 11:38:50 AM

I don't know what any of that has to do with anything.
Any of what? Writing about the military in ways people just turn a blind eye to?

Don't want to talk about the military behaving badly because it thwarts sucking the military into this whole discussion?


These guys can protest.
Yes ... that's right. They are protesting where they have the biggest audience.

People who are protesting various different movements do so where they can gather the most attention. They have a right to do that as long as they are not obstructing others' rights.

Taking a knee at a televised game is not obstructing others' rights. If so, how?


No one is stopping them after work.
What do you know about what they do off the field?


They have a problem with the police, yet I don't see them going to police stations or anywhere else to protest.
Again ... we don't really know what they do off the field to protest such bad police behavior. If a protest is to be effective (we hope) then it should be where it can get the most attention. The women's march was in Washington for the most part ... probably because it was going to get a lot of attention ... right?
 from site to sight
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 986
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 1:34:52 PM

These guys can protest. No one is stopping them after work.


What is Trump's working hours? Psychotic Trump is constantly (verbally) protesting, whining and throwing temper tantrums about anything and everything all of the time-at any hour and any day. Should he be told to stick to business during his working hours, and only turn into an evil loony tune after hours? And if he doesn't follow the rule of keeping personal business and personal views separate from work, should he be disciplined or even fired?

Saying how NFL football should be run has nothing to do with his job as president. Should Trump be disciplined for sticking his nose where it doesn't belong? If I was to go crazy at work over how football is run, including childish name calling and swearing and screaming about it, don't you think I would be disciplined? If Trump feels a need to go totally berserk, he should do it when he's off work at his golf course, since he's there so often. (Oh yea-it's Obama who spent so much time golfing. lol). Putin should've brought a pacifier for Trump.


VVV" The military is not an object, they are .people and they have just as many different opinions as any other group of people."
But Trump feels, as a dictator wannabee, it's his job to tell people what they should be feeling and thinking. He's already converted a lot of people into zombie Trumpanzes, who are anxiously waiting for instructions from Trump about what to think and who to target next in their hate list. What makes me shake my head is when religious people jump on Trump's bandwagon.

 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 987
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 1:42:48 PM
You really need to stop saying things like...the military feels this way or that way. The military is not an object, they are .people and they have just as many different opinions as any other group of people. What the heck does a football player have to do with the military? How did Trump get involved, well he jumped in decided how football players should behave, so why do you think he gets gets brought up. This whole thing is ridicoulas, some players are protesting, all the sudden Trump thinks his jobs is about ruling what should happen to these players, it's just stupid.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 988
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 3:38:10 PM

Football players have nothing to protest that's job related. Go to your job and protest about prejudices that aren't at your job, while at work. See what happens.


Tom, no one is saying they can't speak their mind off the field when they're not working. It's pretty lazy and shows little effort and not really caring if they don't do that.


I think Trump gets tied into this mess because he's endlessly twitter-ing and speaking his mind but refuses to be held accountable as a format diplomat for the United States. The State Department is in a constant tailspin because of what he does and says. One can argue about the job and what is supposed to be in the description, but I highly doubt being a Twitter b1tch is part of it. Protesting on the job is done at personal risk no matter the pay level. Showing up at Wal-Mart without a blue vest might get you a written warning - but using the wrong-colored shoelaces at an NFL game gets you a $5,000 fine. What fines or cut in pay do politicians get? Absolutely none. Unless they lose their job, or lose the election.

Professional sports teams take time out of their pre-game introductions to honor the military at practically every game played. That is a management decision and holds the opinion of the whole organization. It doesn't mean any individual employee within has to respect and honor and freeze in place and take their hat off every time the anthem is sung. They all have jobs to do. If they can take the time to stand still and salute - great! But that is not what they are PAID to do. They make money by plunging toilets, emptying trash, giving CPR to the fat guy who lost consciousness in the elevator, taking the drunks from section 245 outside to cool off before they really hurt someone. If someone in the crowd at a basketball game pulls a gun and starts shooting during the anthem, I would assume it's not just the audience that would jump into action. F*ck the song and the flag - use the flagpole to clothesline the perp as they try to escape!
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 989
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 7/30/2018 9:14:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1zbgd6xpGQ
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 990
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 8/20/2018 9:24:05 AM
A football player's recent approach to military on the field. Part of this article that includes pictures:

Fitzgerald noticed that one of the Airman had lost his cover, but because he was holding the flag, he just had to let it go. In an act of solidarity, to renew trust and respect between NFL players and the military, and the public at large he stepped out in faith to retrieve the cover and place it back on the Airman’s head.

Later in that same game he ran over on the sidelines to shake the hand of a veteran who was in a wheelchair.

You can really see the joy in the veteran’s face as Fitzgerald shook his hand and thanked him for his service. Larry Fitzgerald is really the type of player the NFL should be modeling. Like it or not young impressionable kids look up to these players. They’re more like Captain America than a pro sports player. Whatever the cameras show them doing, kids will emulate it and take it even further.

While the league chose the way of taking a knee, teams like the Jaguars are apologizing for the damage their protests caused. The league will bounce back, and faith will be restored, but it’ll take other players like Fitzgerald to stand up and take a positive action to get there.

http://politifeed.net/sports/1-nfl-player-rushes-field-during-national-anthem-stuns-the-crowd-when-he-reaches-out-and-grabs-an-airmans-hat-2
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 991
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 8/20/2018 12:35:26 PM

Whatever the cameras show them doing, kids will emulate it and take it even further.

Good ... they are getting a good lesson in how to protest wrong-doing in a peaceful way ...

Once again, the "taking a knee" has nothing whatsoever to do with the military ... and several members of the military have confirmed that. Sooooo ... no matter how much people try to make it about the military ... it's not.

Points awarded for trying though ... ... got to give credit for the effort ... right?
 acrosstheplains
Joined: 8/1/2017
Msg: 992
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 8/20/2018 3:12:21 PM
we all agree that the majority of us have to work for a living; pay the bills, feed the kids, keep a roof over our heads, pay the medical insurance etc. And unless you're a grade A imbecile, we all know that jobs don't grow on trees. Sometimes you have take what is on offer. Kinda strange but the last 7 times I walked into an interview and held a gun against the manager's head, I still didnae get the job.....
THEREFORE seeing as we all still have some basic rights, why the eck should we show agreement with policies of our employers? Why can't we do our jobs conscientiously and thats it. No drinking with the buddies after work, and no saluting a flag that the leaders of the country have abused and debased by their anti American/British/Spanish* policies of self pocket lining at the tax payers expense.
Just how far should a worker have to kowtow to their boss?
I get annoyed by people who choose to add on things to a symbol, just to big themselves up and diminish others who hold different opinions. Seriously folks. If the military are represented by the flag, then so are the trashmen, the cleaners, the nurses, the teachers, the checkout operators, the mail guys. Because they all make the country what it is, keep it running, improve it, nurture it, repair it.



* delete as appropriate....
 from site to sight
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 993
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 8/20/2018 5:59:53 PM
"Seriously folks. If the military are represented by the flag, then so are the trashmen, the cleaners, the nurses, the teachers, the checkout operators, the mail guys. Because they all make the country what it is""

Good point. I don't hear those people complaining that their occupation is disrespected when a football player takes a knee. At least some people have enough common sense to know that taking a knee is not a protest against a specific occupation. But in true Trump fashion, Trump doesn't have a valid reason to complain about it, so he makes up bullcrap, and his brainless followers are dumb enough to believe any BS he makes up.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 994
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History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 8/20/2018 6:50:23 PM
I hear veterans say they're being disrespected. The flag is a symbol for them. Here's how first black recipient of the Medal of Honor thought about the flag:


In that moment of danger Carney remembered the flag that represented all he held dear and was fighting to protect that day. Rather than dropping the flag and fleeing for his life, he wrapped the flag around the staff to protect it and ran down an embankment. Stumbling through a ditch, chest-deep in water, he held his flag high. Another bullet struck him in the chest, another in the right arm, then another in his right leg. Carney struggled on alone, determined not to let his flag fall to the enemy.

http://www.54thmass.org/regiment-history/sergeant-carneys-flag/
 apriloveswhiteroses
Joined: 7/28/2018
Msg: 995
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 8/20/2018 8:18:58 PM
Liberals want to delete USA History.. They do not care about important things... I don't get it.!!

The meaning of The Star Spangled Banner /flag. Many military soldiers did die fighting for freedom.. The Star Spangled Banner was made when
They were fighting..Dying.!!

Here is the History for some of the forum posters who seem Did skip history class when in school.!

====
From Google:

In Baltimore's preparation for an expected attack on the city, Fort McHenry was made ready to defend the city's harbor.
When Major George Armistead expressed the desire for a very large flag to fly over the fort,
General John S. Stricker and Commodore Joshua Barney placed an order with a prominent Baltimorean flagmaker for two oversized American Flags.
The larger of the two flags would be the Great Garrison Flag, the largest battle flag ever flown at the time.
The smaller of the two flags would be the Storm Flag, to be durable and less prone to fouling in inclement weather.!

The Flag was flown over the fort when 5,000 British soldiers and a fleet of 19 ships attacked Baltimore on September 12, 1814. The bombardment turned to Fort McHenry on the evening of September 13, and continuous shelling occurred for 25 hours under heavy rain. When the British ships were unable to pass the fort and penetrate the harbor, the attack was ended, and on the morning of September 14, when the battered flag still flew above the ramparts, it was clear that Fort McHenry remained in American hands.

This revelation was famously captured in poetry by Key, an American lawyer, and amateur poet. Being held by the British on a truce ship in the Patapsco River,
Key observed the battle from afar...

When Key saw the Garrison Flag still flying at the dawn of the morning of the 14th, he composed a poem he originally titled "Defence of Fort M'Henry".
The poem would be put to the music of a common tune, retitled "The Star-Spangled Banner", and a portion of it would later be adopted as the United States National Anthem. Since its arrival at the Smithsonian, the FLAG has undergone multiple preservation efforts.




 Kj_521_
Joined: 8/6/2018
Msg: 996
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 8/20/2018 8:46:09 PM
Sorry Ms. Cotter....

If that were true....the players would have "taken a knee" off camera at police stations...in off season.

Or....would have taken the the Potus's offer up on contacting him directly!

Drama Queen's capitalizing on controversy! Pfft! Fist in the air!! Lol!
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 997
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History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 8/20/2018 11:56:45 PM

Liberals want to delete USA History.. They do not care about important things... I don't get it.!!


Maybe you should read up on your history of how the national anthem was used at sporting events. By most accounts, it started in the 1918 World Series when the local band started playing it during the 7th inning stretch, not at the beginning of the game. World War 1 was still going on, and a few of the players on the field were ex-military and took the break to salute. The crowd got involved, singing along - and the team owners took notice. The patriotic fervor created during war time was giving a new focus they could capitalize on.

“The Star-Spangled Banner” — which borrowed its difficult melody from a “To Anacreon in Heaven,” a British song about boozing and womanizing.

The anthem was never used with any regularity, just special occasions - heck, it wasn't even officially 'The' Anthem until 1931. Teams used it as a call to attention before special events - much the way theater house manager would dim the lights to indicate the start of a show.

The anthem never became a regular thing for the NFL until the 1941-1942 season, when they realized once again that the Patriotic fervor during war time (World War II) was something that could be capitalized upon. It also became much easier to play the song pre-recorded through new loudspeaker sound systems, so they didn't even need to hire a band any more. So, much like selling War Bonds, the NFL used the deaths of countless young soldiers as a money-making marketing technique.

The NFL Players themselves did NOT stand on the field for the Anthem with any regularity until 2009, when they decided it was policy to do so before Prime-Time games and the Superbowl. Most games before that they stayed in the locker rooms. A few teams made public displays of patriotism immediately after 9/11.

The NFL still uses the patriotic angle to this very day, claiming Football is 'America's' game. Never mind that baseball started the tradition thirty years sooner than they did.

One of the most notable, powerful performances of the Anthem in modern times is credited to Whitney Houston during the 1991 Superbowl, but context is everything. The hottest part of the first Gulf War (Desert Storm) invasion had started only a few weeks earlier, and the fervor had been building, much like the buildup of arms and troops, for the previous six months. Granted, she did a better job than Roseanne Barr, but the 'magic' of the moment had as much to do with it as her actual performance.

Showing respect to our soldiers should be done 24/7/365, especially when they need health and mental care. Not just for three f*cking minutes at the beginning of every game played. If I had a choice between keeping a flag waving on a battlefield and using it to make arm slings or a stretcher to get the wounded home; screw the salute.

You can blame liberals or any other group out there as much as want for exercising free speech, but don't for a minute pretend that the context of story of how the Banner was written makes a difference in how it gets USED 200+ years later. The song is played at games because Patriotism sells. End of Story.
 Kj_521_
Joined: 8/6/2018
Msg: 998
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 8/21/2018 12:01:16 AM
^^^BS

Take the "National" out of football then.

I suggest the PFL. :)
 billgann
Joined: 7/23/2018
Msg: 999
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 8/21/2018 7:02:38 AM

"I hear veterans say they're being disrespected. The flag is a symbol for them."


Perhaps a very small percentage. I'm a Vietnam veteran - I don't care! I'm sure the veterans I know don't care. Wasn't there less controversy over Obama being disrespectful when he refused to put his hand over his chest back in 2007?

Since you might be a hardcore Republican please share your thoughts. Do you favor a law requiring certain people to stand (no kneeling)? How about laws requiring them to sing God bless America too? You're against freedom of speech and the right to protest by pros at sporting events - right?

Personally I think that silly protest should be between the employers and their employees. If it's gonna hurt ticket sales, I'd tell them to apologize or I'll fire them. If they do it again, I would fire them. A simple matter - no need for all this silly political nonsense. It shouldn't concern Trump. Ya might think he had more important issues to be concerned about.


"Carney remembered the flag that represented all he held dear and was fighting to protect"


So that story rang true to you - right? Not me! Maybe I'm a little less gullible than you appear to be.

I recall a ridiculous story told by Obama concerning a Pvt. Chuck Hagel being put in charge shortly after arriving in Vietnam because all the officers and NCOs were killed or wounded. Complete BS, believed by many of the most easy to fool people in the world. Gotta be! I recall discussing that incident with two diehard Obama worshippers - a complete waste of time. It didn't matter to them that I served at those locations and there were plenty of photos of Chuck showing his actual rank (SP4) online and an actual 2 hour interview with Chuck online discussing his time in Vietnam. Quite different than from what Obama said and what's written on Wikipedia.

If Obama wanted Chuck for the job, that's fine with me. I can't understand why he had to make up all that senseless BS (making Chuck into another Audie Murphy) that could be easily disproved.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1000
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History
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 8/21/2018 11:18:41 AM
It's okay if the flag doesn't mean anything to you, it does to soldiers presently serving and other veterans. You do remember this famous pic? Men died for that flag and what it represents to them. A lot of these football players seem to be ignorant of this fact. Let them kneel and offend the people that keep them employed. People are showing their disapproval by keeping their hand in their pocket.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WW2_Iwo_Jima_flag_raising.jpg#mw-jump-to-license
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