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 ponyelvis82
Joined: 6/15/2017
Msg: 226
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It's guaranteed to work if one can do it -- but yeah, it is damn hard. :) However, doing 1600 calories a day with tons of exercise that only aids in your lack of sleep isn't any easier, if you approach the keto diet prepared, with the whole plan with its ducks in a row after taste testing stuff, etc. I'd find the keto diet easier.


The problem with the keto diet is that it's just not maintainable. You'll die without the sugar, but you lack the control to only eat the right amount. NOTHING will replace taking the time and effort to get a proper diet and get exercise and lose weight the hard way. The thing about easy fixes like the keto diet, once you're done, you put all that weight back. Being fit is a lifestyle, not a diet.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 227
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Posted: 7/25/2018 8:35:59 AM

The problem with the keto diet is that it's just not maintainable.

People do maintain it for quite a while. Some basically indefinitely.

You'll die without the sugar, but you lack the control to only eat the right amount.

It's not sugar, but carbs -- any carbs. Very little. For all practical purposes, it's roughly zero, since there's going to be sprinkles of carbs throughout a day.

NOTHING will replace taking the time and effort to get a proper diet and get exercise and lose weight the hard way.

Going on a fitting diet for someone can be harder than going into ketosis for several months. YMMV. I thought keto diet wasn't maintainable -- isn't that the "hard way"? :) For burning fat, nothing beats the keto diet, although others, depending on your body chemistry, can be just as effective of course.

It's tough to maintain because you're basically taking in almost-no-carbs. It's not fitting for convenience, notably here in 'Merica.

Being fit is a lifestyle, not a diet.

I agree. But people are on certain diets as their lifestyle. The word diet doesn't necessarily mean short-term. Depends on the context. It'd be silly to think that the word "diet" in every context merely means a short-term change. It'd be like saying a workout regimen = just going on a summer workout program, and not what people do habitually in life, since most people just do a workout program to snap back in shape.
 ponyelvis82
Joined: 6/15/2017
Msg: 228
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Posted: 7/25/2018 11:46:49 AM
A carbohydrate is more commonly known in layman's terms as sugar.

Now, everything your body does it takes energy. This energy comes from breaking a bond in a chemcial called Adenosine triphosphate (ATP). The fuel used by your cells from the production of this chemical is glucose or fructose, AKA sugar (glucose is from animals, fructose is from plants. Table sugar is just a glucose joined with one fructose). Without carbs, your body cannot function, period.

What the keto diet does is restrict your intake of carbs, forcing your body to break down fat to produce its own sugar, while eating carb-free food so that you're not hungry. You're literally starving yourself thin.

So no, nobody is maintaining that diet indefinitely, because it will kill you if you try. There is no maintaining that diet. Over long-term, it's deadly. You cannot live without carbs.

The difference between that and doing it the hard way and counting calories and exercising... those are permanent, sustainable changes. There's a reason that people tend to gain their weight back after these diets. If you cut carbs but you're still eating way too much, yeah, you'll lose weight, but once you start eating carbs again, you're back to taking in way more calories than you need. A proper, safe, sustainable diet should have about half your your daily calorie intake come from carbs. That's how important they are to your body. Seriously, just cut out added sugars, and most people will lose weight. Basically, trade the Dr Pepper for water. And exercise, it leads to a higher metabolism. These are lifelong habits. Your keto diet is a few weeks of starving your body and then going back to the reality that you have no real self control over how many calories you take in every day so it's that rollercoaster of weight loss and gain. Give up the fad diets. Get into the habit of eating right and exercising, and yeah, it'll take longer to lose that weight, but then you've developed a healthy habit and now you don't have to go through this every year anymore.
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Posted: 7/25/2018 11:54:38 AM

The difference between that and doing it the hard way and counting calories and exercising... those are permanent, sustainable changes. There's a reason that people tend to gain their weight back after these diets. If you cut carbs but you're still eating way too much, yeah, you'll lose weight, but once you start eating carbs again, you're back to taking in way more calories than you need. A proper, safe, sustainable diet should have about half your your daily calorie intake come from carbs. That's how important they are to your body. Seriously, just cut out added sugars, and most people will lose weight. Basically, trade the Dr Pepper for water. And exercise, it leads to a higher metabolism. These are lifelong habits. Your keto diet is a few weeks of starving your body and then going back to the reality that you have no real self control over how many calories you take in every day so it's that rollercoaster of weight loss and gain. Give up the fad diets. Get into the habit of eating right and exercising, and yeah, it'll take longer to lose that weight, but then you've developed a healthy habit and now you don't have to go through this every year anymore.

Totally agree! Just ignore NG, he just likes to read himself in print.
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 230
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Posted: 7/25/2018 1:16:04 PM

You cannot live without carbs.


Actually, not all carbs are created equal. There are some carbs we can live without and be perfectly healthy, such as grains. The keto diet eliminates many of the bad carbohydrates that can contribute to various health problems, including inflammation and blood-sugar surges.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 231
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Posted: 7/25/2018 2:54:26 PM

Without carbs, your body cannot function, period.

Actually, it can.

You cannot live without carbs.

Actually, you can.

However, I'm not suggesting that and neither does the keto diet.

"Good" carbs (I really hate labeling food 'good' or 'bad') are things like leafy greens and above-ground vegetables. I really like artichoke bottoms, water chestnuts, and asparagus. Lots of spinach and Swiss chard in an egg frittata. Love broccoli, zucchini, and cauliflower.

Starchy carbs, like the ubiquitous potato, are the ones that turn into sugar via digestion.
Carbs also attract water to the body so the first weight lost when doing no or low carb is water being released. This means that if you're on a no/low carb diet and have enough carbs - you'll instantly gain (water) weight.

Fats and oils are the satisfiers.
Too much protein acts as a carb.

Ponyelvis is right in that you need to start dieting as if that's the way you'll be eating for the rest of your life. Because it is.
 ponyelvis82
Joined: 6/15/2017
Msg: 232
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Posted: 7/25/2018 4:34:05 PM
No, it cannot function without carbs. Without glucose, your cells cannot synthesize ATP. Without ATP most functions of your body are impossible. It's like trying to drive a car with no gas in the tank. There is literally no fuel for your cells if there's no carbs. You die.

What the keto diet does is your body converts fats and proteins into glucose (a carbohydrate REQUIRED by all living animal cells for the synthesis of their energy source). This is done by breaking down your fat tissue and your muscle for the protein. You are starving yourself.

Again, carbohydrates are the fuel for the human body. Fats and proteins, can be broken down TOGETHER to form glucose, a carbohydrate)

Also there's no such thing as good and bad carbs. Carbs are carbs. Every single carbohydrate in existence, except for fiber, is broken down into glucose or fructose and either stored in the body or used for energy. When people refer to carbs as "good" or "bad" it's typically in relation to the micronutrient value of the carb source. Basically, pizza and coke are bad carbs, potatoes and carrots are good carbs. White bread would be a bad carb while whole grain bread would be a good carb. The problem with simple carbs, like sucrose, is there's a ton of it in all the stuff we eat, because it tastes good. 1 20 oz soda is over 80g of sugar. That's over 1/3 of the total carbs you should have for the entire day. BUT, your body does not know the difference between 80g of high fructose corn syrup in your soda and 80g of carbs from broccoli. Both are broken down into the same exact fructose and glucose molecules.

So no, starchy carbs "being the ones that turn into sugar" is a complete misunderstanding of food. Carbs are sugar. All carbs. Every single one of them. Why? Because carbohydrate is the scientific word for sugar.

What it comes down to at the end of the day is if you take in less calories than you need, you lose weight. If you take in more than you need, you gain weight. A calorie is just a unit of energy. Calories come from carbs, fats, and proteins. That high protein keto diet is still taking in calories. You can overeat in a keto diet and gain weight. It's actually very common.

OR you can instead, eat a properly balanced diet, restricting your total calories, by eating proper portions of nutrient rich foods, and lose that same weight, in a healthy way.
 sun___flower
Joined: 5/8/2015
Msg: 233
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Posted: 7/25/2018 4:57:35 PM
PonyElvis
OR you can instead, eat a properly balanced diet, restricting your total calories, by eating proper portions of nutrient rich foods, and lose that same weight, in a healthy way.

+1. You're in nursing school, right?
 ponyelvis82
Joined: 6/15/2017
Msg: 234
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Posted: 7/25/2018 5:17:03 PM

+1. You're in nursing school, right?


Yeah
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 235
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Posted: 7/25/2018 5:47:56 PM
ponyelvis...

No, it cannot function without carbs. Without glucose, your cells cannot synthesize ATP. Without ATP most functions of your body are impossible. It's like trying to drive a car with no gas in the tank. There is literally no fuel for your cells if there's no carbs. You die.

What the keto diet does is your body converts fats and proteins into glucose (a carbohydrate REQUIRED by all living animal cells for the synthesis of their energy source). This is done by breaking down your fat tissue and your muscle for the protein. You are starving yourself.


So, if you eat carbs, which are quickly and directly converted to glucose, your body functions..
But if you only eat fats and proteins then the body converts it to glucose (or glycogen which also forms glucose) and your body functions.
You simply contradicted yourself in the first two paragraphs. Actually, paragraph 2 and 3 contradict paragraph 1.

As I said, I hate labeling foods 'good' or 'bad'. Perhaps we should use words like 'more healthy' or 'less healthy'?
I would also say that the human body is far more biochemically complicated than 'calories in, calories out'.
Otherwise a person could survive on 1600 calories of Hershey's Milk Chocolate with no ill effects.

Double-check on what a carbohydrate actually is. I'll give you a hint - it's not one-for-one 'carb = sugar' as you say. Carbohydrate is the scientific word for 'organic chemical compound composed mainly of hydrogen and carbon'. This is where the water weight comes from - the H and O portions of a carbohydrate are the same as water - H2O. This is why the process of starch to sugar conversion is called 'hydrolysis'. The H2O is kicked off the carb as water while the remainder become glucose.

Yes, generally identified as sugar, starch, cellulose (soluble and insoluble fiber). Monosacharides are usually the sugars (ending in '-ose' like glucose, fructose, galactose, lactose, sucrose, and comatose. Com'on, laugh - it's a good joke!).

I'm getting kicked off the computer - so, I'll end the chemistry lecture and just comment that you should look outside the nursing school box for additional information which may prove useful to you in your work. Good luck in your career.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 236
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Posted: 7/25/2018 6:04:14 PM

No, it cannot function without carbs. Without glucose, your cells cannot synthesize ATP. Without ATP most functions of your body are impossible. It's like trying to drive a car with no gas in the tank. There is literally no fuel for your cells if there's no carbs. You die.

You have small amounts of glucose in your system all the time, yes. But no -- here's the bottom line you're not getting: In Ketosis, your cells don't need glucose for energy anymore. You don't have enough glucose to survive on it's own. So yes, you heard that correctly -- it's using something Else for cellular energy (too).

What starts permeating thru the cell membrane that it's using for fuel? Ketones. The breaking down of fatty acids.

You do realize this didn't start as a diet fad or a "lose the pounds" thing, right? It started in the middle of the 20th century for kids with epilepsy, and dropped their seizures down massively, many times to zero.

You don't continue to starve going on it for months and months and months. This is where our disagreement is. You're incorrect that your cells can only use glucose for fuel. Look it up. :)
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Posted: 7/26/2018 4:10:46 AM

You do realize this didn't start as a diet fad or a "lose the pounds" thing, right? It started in the middle of the 20th century for kids with epilepsy, and dropped their seizures down massively, many times to zero.

There are quite a few experts that say this diet is down right dangerous and shouldn't even be attempted unless under a Dr's care. It is not sustainable in the long term and most people who use these fad diets gain any weight they lose back as soon as they quit this diet. Diets DON'T work!

OR you can instead, eat a properly balanced diet, restricting your total calories, by eating proper portions of nutrient rich foods, and lose that same weight, in a healthy way

This is the only way to sustain long term weight loss. along with exercise.
 SiennaBear2
Joined: 12/2/2017
Msg: 238
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Posted: 7/26/2018 5:55:43 AM
Keto diets are just an unhealthy fad diets.
There are no good shortcuts to weightloss that are worth taking.

Keto is not a great long-term diet, as it is not a balanced Diet" “A diet that is devoid of fruit and vegetables will result in long-term micronutrient deficiencies that can have other consequences. "
"The loss of electrolytes, such as sodium, magnesium, and potassium will put the dieter at risk of a cardiac arrhythmia,” Dr. Rahnama adds.
High levels of nitrogen created by excess protein can also increase pressure in your kidneys. This can lead to the formation of more stones and damage your kidney cells.
“Since your body starts to eat away at muscles as it enters ketosis, your heart, being a muscle, may also be damaged in the process,” Derocha says.
 SiennaBear2
Joined: 12/2/2017
Msg: 239
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Posted: 7/26/2018 6:03:52 AM
Harvard Medical School:
Keto diets are heavy on red meat and other fatty, processed, and salty foods that are notoriously unhealthy. We also do not know much about its long-term effects, probably because it’s so hard to stick with that people can’t eat this way for a long time. It is also important to remember that “yo-yo diets” that lead to rapid weight loss fluctuation are associated with increased mortality. Instead of engaging in the next popular diet that would last only a few weeks to months (for most people that includes a ketogenic diet), try to embrace change that is sustainable over the long term. A balanced, unprocessed diet, rich in very colorful fruits and vegetables, lean meats, fish, whole grains, nuts, seeds, olive oil, and lots of water seems to have the best evidence for a long, healthier, vibrant life
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 240
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Posted: 7/26/2018 6:57:38 AM

Diets DON'T work!


First three letters spell "die". Any further questions?
 CBGB77
Joined: 12/15/2017
Msg: 241
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Posted: 7/26/2018 8:14:47 AM
What about the Santa Clarita Diet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkWx5bv_EGw
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 242
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Posted: 7/26/2018 9:09:45 AM
Well, I've been making myself sleep and I upped my calorie amount. I was doing more reading and too little calories in a day can cause your metabolism to slow down significantly. So my new amount is 1850.

I want to make changes to the way I eat and keep those for the longrun. I'm not doing things like keto diets or Atkins diets. Just watching my portion-control and trying to eat nutrient-dense foods. I've always been a water drinker so fluids aren't my problem. I have identified 3 problem areas for me:

1) At work (I do homecare) I basically have to eat out of my car. Lunches do not keep well in hot vehicles so I have to buy things on the go. I'd love to survive with Booster Juice smoothies but at $8 a pop that's too much for a meal. I try to keep it under $4. So for instance, yesterday I opted for a bowl of hot chili from the grocery store.

2) Too many temptations at home and in the evening is when I have the least willpower. But my kids are in bed so I can't just leave the house to go out for a walk to get away.

3) I try to do youtube exercises before bed but if the tv is being used I can't and there's nowhere else in the house that's suitable. If I ask to use the tv for 40 minutes to do my exercises when my mom is watching she flips out because I get the "This is my house. I work hard and I want to enjoy my evenings watching tv. Just because you want to get all skinny doesn't mean I have to change my life."
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 243
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Posted: 7/26/2018 9:51:15 AM

1) At work (I do homecare) I basically have to eat out of my car. Lunches do not keep well in hot vehicles so I have to buy things on the go. I'd love to survive with Booster Juice smoothies but at $8 a pop that's too much for a meal. I try to keep it under $4. So for instance, yesterday I opted for a bowl of hot chili from the grocery store.


You can get meal replacement shakes at Walmart for much less than $8 a pop. They usually come in packs of 4-6.


2) Too many temptations at home and in the evening is when I have the least willpower. But my kids are in bed so I can't just leave the house to go out for a walk to get away.


Why can't your mom watch the kids for 40 minutes while you're out walking? Isn't she at home in the evening?


3) I try to do youtube exercises before bed but if the tv is being used I can't and there's nowhere else in the house that's suitable. If I ask to use the tv for 40 minutes to do my exercises when my mom is watching she flips out because I get the "This is my house.


You can watch youtube exercises from your computer if you have a fairly large monitor. Buy a used one if you can't afford new.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 244
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Posted: 7/26/2018 10:17:02 AM
You can pack lunch with cold packs in an insulated bag, or use insulation to keep food warm. When I did low elevation hikes, I'd make hummus, because that kept well without refrigeration.

I was gonna mention drinking water, but see you've got that covered. A satiating fruit is a banana. Fat is satiating, so don't cut that out, just don't overdo it. I did yoga from my laptop.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 245
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Posted: 7/26/2018 10:17:53 AM
I don't see why so several people are saying a keto diet will kill you.

It won't.

It is no more 'salty' than any other diet (unless you gorge on preserved meat - which is not suggested) than any other diet.
It basically restricts only grain, tubers, fruit (except berries), and sugar. Some keto plans restrict milk.

Nice leafy greens, above ground veggies, and berries are encouraged. They make a lovely salad sprinkled with walnuts or sunflower seeds. Full-fat dressings are encouraged (but most dressings have sugar so I usually make my own.)

There is no danger of electrolyte imbalance unless you're trying to restrict more than those four items (i.e. restricting fat AND carbs or restricting carbs AND calories).

Doctors usually receive little to no nutritional training and have the same knee-jerk reaction as anyone else.
(Keto? OMG, that's nothing but bacon and butter! Nononono!)

Maybe people should read a little information before saying people will die if they diet, they'll gain weight, they'll kill themselves through electrolyte imbalance... blah, blah, blah.

It's a fact that:
if you don't eat enough fat, you die.
if you don't eat enough protein, you die.
if you don't eat enough carbohydrates, you... might get a case of constipation, but maybe not depending on what else you're eating.

July...
(1) For taking lunch in the car, buy yourself a small ice chest and some freezer packs for it. It will cost less than buying food on the go and be healthier for you. Do you realize that the Bananas-a-whey has about 40 grams of sugar?
(2) Have a small amount of protein + fat before you are tempted in the evening. Keep in your room and listen to music, read, or take up something that requires your hands like knitting or coloring.
(3) Mimeograph a page of stretches to do in your bedroom. Maybe with some low, relaxing music.
Your choice of diets is your own (and I'm using the word 'diet' simply as 'the food regularly eaten') but if you're hungry on a calorie-restricted diet, it could lead to a binge. An appropriate keto diet usually satisfies which forestall binges. Research it before you dismiss it.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 246
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Posted: 7/26/2018 10:29:18 AM
I did high protein for 2 weeks and it worked for me instead of dragging it out for a month. I never felt hungry. I had things like chicken parmigian, chicken picatta, beef stew, Swedish meatballs and hamburgers. A snack would be green pitted olives and cheese, like mozzarella. I also made bacon sandwiches on low carb bread with mayo, lettuce and very little bacon.
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 247
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Posted: 7/26/2018 10:31:33 AM
I do plenty of things with my 8 inch...



tablet. What did you think I was talking about?



YouTube is great to watch on an Android tablet (Mine is a Samsung). I also have an 18.4 inch Samsung Galaxy View tablet. I don't even own a computer. I'm too used to the touch screen.
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Posted: 7/26/2018 10:36:06 AM

1) At work (I do homecare) I basically have to eat out of my car. Lunches do not keep well in hot vehicles so I have to buy things on the go. I'd love to survive with Booster Juice smoothies but at $8 a pop that's too much for a meal. I try to keep it under $4. So for instance, yesterday I opted for a bowl of hot chili from the grocery store.

I did that job at one time, I feel for you, crazy hrs. You should get a small cooler bag or thermos for hot items. I have a salad bowl that has a spot for a freezer pac. I put it in my cooler bag along with my fruit, vegetables, and water. Keeps it cool all day or night whatever I happen to be working.

Too many temptations at home and in the evening is when I have the least willpower. But my kids are in bed so I can't just leave the house to go out for a walk to get away.

This is when you need to mind of matter it a bit. Sometimes at night, when I'm hungry, I will have about a half cup of oatmeal mixed with some fruit. Oatmeal is filling. Other times I will have some plain popcorn, sans butter or salt. Carrot sticks and celery are also good if you need the crunch, or rice cakes. My sister who is naturally stick thin, always says, nothing tastes as good as skinny.


I try to do youtube exercises before bed but if the tv is being used I can't and there's nowhere else in the house that's suitable. If I ask to use the tv for 40 minutes to do my exercises when my mom is watching she flips out because I get the "This is my house. I work hard and I want to enjoy my evenings watching tv. Just because you want to get all skinny doesn't mean I have to change my life."


It doesn't sound as if your mom is too supportive. You don't need her ok, to lead a healthy lifestyle. You can also pick up a cheap tv and run a hdmi cord from your computer to it, if it isn't a smart tv.

You can do this, there will probably be set backs but you can do it.!
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 249
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Posted: 7/26/2018 11:02:27 AM
Is your mom her correct weight? A parent can get competitive, and not want to support weight loss, but it's probably that she's tired of her lifestyle changing to have you and the kids around. Why change her lifestyle for you when she wants you out.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 250
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Posted: 7/26/2018 11:18:47 AM

There are quite a few experts that say this diet is down right dangerous and shouldn't even be attempted

There's many who know much about it and say it is fine. And there's no one set way. People's bodies are different. It's not potentially dangerous, unless you're diabetic or close to it -- as your insulin takes care of it. Read up on it by doctors For and against. It's not merely a "diet" anymore than others that you or others would recommend. Merely in the sense of a "diet" as a short-term thing, sure, they can and do work. But they don't work in the long-run because people don't stick to them very long, and those Big Macs or mama's meatloaf get real tasty. :)

In the sense of a daily diet -- not "I'm on a diet" -- of course, everyone has a diet. Volatile or consistent. They can suck, or be great. Some people don't have to avoid carbs much by their body makeup -- some do. A lot. Some moderately. It's not about fads -- it's about what works. Older school ones, newer school ones or in-between. It's about making it your daily diet that you're Fine rolling with that makes the difference while it jives well with you. That's the key. Otherwise, ANY sampler diet won't work for the long run, when you go back to mowing on "home cooked nutritious meals that mama makes" that packs on the pounds and did in the first place. :)
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