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Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it?      Home login  
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 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 76
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Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..Page 4 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
I do wonder about this bubble we are in. The government are about to give another ten billion to help people buy houses despite all of the evidence supporting the idea that it only helps richer people buy bigger houses sooner and does nothing for the bottom end (100 million bonus for Persimmon boss).

Most people I know are doing quite well thanks, the pubs and restaurants locally are quite full mostly.

I don't see too many homeless though the stats show they are there and we have a growing food bank here.

Here's a link to a Ford Cortina available to you for only 35 grand. Quite why anyone would want it in the first place other than for banger racing is beyond me but there you go. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Cortina-Superspeed-V6-3-1-Concours-restored-The-only-original-MK3-left/292234504958?hash=item440a88aafe:g:SQAAAOSwNmxZqC1I

The point to that link is that even mundane old crap is now becoming valuable. Vauxhall Viva anyone? Wages on offer around here except for qualified people are the same as everywhere else, minimum wage or thereabouts.
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 77
Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 12/22/2017 4:42:04 AM
You failed to score chap.....did you notice
how I scored last night and got congratulated..
it takes real skill at that level...

Yes re...persimmon boss. Trump tax legislation. .
Everyone is doing well ..rich and poor. .that's
the nature of a bubble it expands until it pops..
Then the blame game ...

Maybe you can score in edit time. .geddit..
 rekirked
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 78
Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 12/22/2017 6:19:58 AM
Chap, re the cortina thing people are desperate to own any sort of asset that they believe will increase in value. Yamaha FS1E anybody? I bought one in 1984 for £75 (admittedly it needed a polish) now they command 5k.....it’s a fcuking moped ffs but idiots really do believe that other idiots are as idiotic as they are and will keep buying stuff from their youth as living room ornaments.

The real human illness is laziness, everyone wants some of the unearned income pie, a little speculative purchase here, a cheeky little parking space for rent there, selling Shyte up the boot sale or an eBay account listing broken crap. We all forgot how to graft.

Oh and re the bubble thing, every ten years on average. They say there’s one born every minute but typically they only group together and cause self inflicted misery and chaos once a decade.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 79
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Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 12/22/2017 6:30:48 AM
How could I fail to miss! Oh well, at least you are keeping someone warm and fluffy feeling Billy.

I sort of like and agree with your take on it Kirk. Along with Vlad you could easily represent us in the World Cynics Cup.

But a bit of me wants to think we're a bit better than that.
 rekirked
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 80
Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 12/22/2017 6:40:56 AM
Oh and another thing, buy to letters. I sort of get it if you’ve got a lump and it’s barely earning .25% in the bank but skinto potless peasants borrowing from the cartel to rent dives to the less fortunate should have been banned before it even got going. It’s fcuking immoral.

Sorry everybody, I’m feeling a little stressed and ranty today. This always happens when I leave Xmas shopping to the last minute.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 81
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Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 12/22/2017 9:25:17 AM
Ah well, on the buy to let front that's where the world is back to front. I know loads of people with rental properties. One friend has 4 and they bought the last two on the basis of non repayment loans and managed to do so because with their wealth the banks were happ to lend 95% at very low interest payments. The rent (much paid for by housing benefit) covers the repayments plus some. effectively the government is paying to buy the houses for them.
 duracell_bunny_one
Joined: 1/21/2015
Msg: 82
Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 12/22/2017 10:38:27 AM
Bitcoin volatility sees trades suspended ...........
(BBC)

 imanorangetiger
Joined: 12/29/2011
Msg: 83
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Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 12/22/2017 10:50:39 AM
I'm a landlord. I wouldn't rent a house out that I wouldn't live in myself. I upgraded and redecorated to a high standard. My tenants haven't seen their rent increase since 2011, and they've remained there since and looked after the place. I've heard stories of some really shocking places being rented out though.
 rekirked
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 84
Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 12/22/2017 10:52:49 AM
....it’s ok everyone, no need to panic, it’s merely a “correction” and nothing at all like a crash whatsoever.

Carry on








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 Squareslice
Joined: 10/17/2016
Msg: 85
Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 12/23/2017 1:52:48 PM
The food bank I help out at opened another 2 local outlets this year alone. Nuff said bar more power to Trussell
 flossiescratchwood
Joined: 11/28/2015
Msg: 86
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Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 12/23/2017 6:09:25 PM
bloody hell I had a ford cortina mark 4 in 88/89. Bought it for 115 quid and sold it for 50 18 months later. I just looked looked on ebay and they're going for 6000!

It was like driving a tank. And there's surely not an uglier car in existance.
 rekirked
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 87
Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 12/24/2017 3:15:54 AM
The mk4 was only in production for 3 years and was a favourite of banger racers so they are now more rare than something that falls out the back of a rocking horse, hence the strong prices. The Triumph TR7 is my tip for growth, they were horrible and no one wants them, even now you can pick one up for a grand with an MOT but one day, when there’s hardly any left guess what’s going to happen to the price?
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 88
Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 12/25/2017 7:24:48 PM

Monsieur rude is about I suppose that patter got him a date with Pauline but I would expect manners..
Bitcoin14100....ethereum...748.....bitcoin cash a Bitcoin hard fork ..is about 3000 so maybe people are wondering whether Bitcoin cash is a better wager than Bitcoin ? Eos....9.76....all blockchain technology. There are maybe better distributive Ledger technologies..I'm following hashgraph a bit. Remember bullion could be confiscated ..stolen.. in any upcoming monetary reset, so preparation is important. Jewelry and numismatics should be ok.. Don't forget silver ...The most undervalued asset in the world and excellent barter money. Let's hope it doesn't get that bad in Blighty.
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 89
Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 1/4/2018 5:11:16 AM
http://www.oilseedcrops.org/2017/12/20/seven-reasons-bitcoin-will-reach-70000/#more-9983


Could this be a way of doing it it's based on confidence but
the other options presuming you realise the indebtedness
of the system sound awful as they create bad blood. Sure it
could be inflationary down the line but it might work . ..
My way of proper capitalism seems far fetched knowing
what I know. Could this idea stretch the fiat system out longer
and renew prosperity?

As an aside reading about past debt resets. .when gold is
Confiscated and the debt is reset to zero probably using
the price of gold . Some months after this while sovereign
and corporations have got their debt reset . ..the consumer
and mortgage debt is marked up. More grist to jo's mill.
But hey the system can start taking on debt again.
 rekirked
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 90
Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it..fifty years of fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 1/4/2018 6:52:57 AM
“we face three choices to resolve the global liquidity crisis:

a debt jubilee
a global war
bitcoin (BTC) futures.“

Bitcoin is a nonsense. I agree about the other two but most likely it will be hyper inflation.
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 91
Bitcoin fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 1/4/2018 7:31:49 AM
Yes mere hyperinflation;)...good point kirk.. there speaks an insouciant man whose looked childbirth in the face and lived to tell the tale
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 92
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Bitcoin fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 1/7/2018 3:25:31 PM
Chapster/bondsy

I just read this article in the grauniad. Not got a scooby what it means though. But here it is if you want to browse it..........



"How I fell for the blockchain gold rush

Bitcoin envy, the ultramodern malaise. News reports are full of this magic internet money’s rocketing value – currently $16,000 – and Facebook is dotted with people who picked some up at $500, $50 or even 50 cents. But the cryptocurrency ship hasn’t yet sailed.

In the volatile market of alternative cryptos, relatively unknown alt-coins such as ripple, litecoin and ethereum regularly shoot up by hundreds of per cent in a matter of weeks, and plummet just as fast. Bitcoin envy has brought in vast sums of new money, dollar-eyed investors taking a Las Vegas gamble on which of the more than 1,000 alt-coins might rocket next.

In September the cryptocurrency market cap was $137bn. Today it’s $800bn. It’s a blockchain gold rush.

John McAfee, head of McAfee Antivirus and a major voice in crypto, tweeted, “it is easier for a 3 cent coin to go to 3 dollars, than it is for a $300 dollar coin to go to $30,000”, so I looked to the cheaper coins for my future fortune. Most intriguing was a five-center called verge (or XVG), tipped by McAfee as the next big privacy coin.

Justin Vendetta and were promising the imminent release of Wraith Protocol, a means by which users can make a transaction with verge either public or untraceable at the flick of a switch.

You could pay your gas bill and run a Mexican drug cartel with the same currency.

Verge was already a phenomenon. On the back of a single tweet from McAfee, the price had shot up 2,000% in a couple of days, and almost 30,000% in 2017; $400 of verge purchased in January would now be worth $17m. With McAfee claiming Verge could hit $15 in a year, it sure looked like the future. I grabbed me a hefty chunk.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jan/07/bitcoin-crypto-currencies-mcafee

Now mind and write it so an idiot like me can understand it.
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 93
Bitcoin fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 1/13/2018 4:39:51 AM
It's gambling vlad.. we do it all with the fiat dollar too. Bitcoin is all about an attempt at honest money. But that's not what's happening people want to get rich and governments want to use cryptocoin to forward their agenda of a cashless society.

At the moment if any government charged a negative interest rate on people's bank accounts, people would surely withdraw their cash. But if there was no cash they would have to bear it or spend it. In their epic brain cell they want to force us to spend. Negative rates in theory can support the growing debt Killimanjaro. Of course recovery in their addled minds will happen eventually and we will all expect to be richer than our parents and their parents once again.

This is what our finest have been doing these past ten years at zero interest rates. If you listen and believe their mouthpieces recovery is now entrenched and after all this quantitative easing we are now going to quantitative tightenting.

Now jo is on to something when he says let's borrow lots of money like it's post world war two and spend it on building our society back up. I think the debt to gdp for Britain then was 245%. Now leaving aside those derivatives the debt at the moment is 700% of global gdp. Now slightly higher but you may or may not be surprised to hear me say that we ought to borrow even more. I don't sound like a thatcherite now do I..

Clearly our globalising governments disagree at the moment for if we take them at their word they are about to tighten up. The Americans are leading the charge with their fed funds rate at 1.50-75% and the fed is actually selling a tiny bit of their bloated balance sheet. The Chinese, post their 19th Congress, seem busy cutting back on their credit and the Japanese and the ECB are promising to start quantitative tightening and raising interest rates themselves.

Obviously when their intellecual dignity permits they are going to have to reverse all this. Interesting times as the Chinese guy said...

Meanwhile on topic bitcoin is now $14 300.. ethereum is $1,347. Banker's coin, ripple is $2.07..bitcoin cash $2,634 was $300 dollars last august ...The eos token tied to the ethereum blockchain is up from $4 dollars when I first mentioned it a few weeks ago to 15.90..does seem flavour of the month. Bit coin has a couple of futures' markets now so the banks and governments can play around and manipulate them. So if you want to know where bitcoin is going look at the futures ( derivative) markets.

Some fund managers got fired when the Dow was at 14 or 15 000 points . Explaining the valuations didn't make sense and they were going to protect clients money.. (pensioners).. Now the Dow is (ditto all indices) 25,803 up 228 points yesterday( .9%) and probably going higher. Trump is taking a lap of honour. The us dollar index is at 91 now. Trump wants a cheap dollar. 60 % of the index is the euro so that means as the dollar tanks/gets more competitive the euro strengthens/ gets more uncompetitive. crazy world .

A cheaper dollar brings a more expensive derivative gold price of $1,335.. Meanwhile on the New York stock exchange where traders borrow money (margin debt) to buy shares that are melting up..margin debt that was $40 billion before the dot com crash in 2000 and $450 billion before the subprime crash in 2007 is now $600 billion. Give those boys more money to gamble with. Remember we can't have falling stock prices ..bond prices or house prices or it's all over for a generation or two.

The bond market is key U.S. 2 year debt is yielding 2%...10 year 2.55% and thirty years debt 2.85%...0nly 30 basis points between the 10 year bond and the 30 year bond. Remember banks borrow short and lend long so that thirty basis points is nothing and more than likely even worse when you add in Inflation. There has also been huge selling in the u.s. bond market all week.

Who would buy this shit and keep interest rates low . The ten year is yielding just 2.55%.With the fed targeting a 2% inflation rate and us knowing inflation is higher than that, the question is who is buying this debt. Who is lending to the American government and asking for a return of some of their money in ten or thirty years. Who could be so stupid..????? Not me.

How long billy ??? QT will have to be reversed when the masses get worried enough to demand it ...after that it's one of gullibility. I left the casino years ago . The house is rigged.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 94
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Bitcoin fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 1/13/2018 7:12:58 AM
Bondsy
Everything points the collapse you have spoken about. Although i know plums about economics i see enough articles talking about a collapse.

So am i correct in saying that the bank notes printed are just an illusion to make it seem like we have the means to live? That the notes are basically toytown money?

I just seen this and as it mentions bitcoin thought I'd throw it into the thread. What think ye?........

"Bitcoin investors looking to cash in on huge spikes in their cryptocurrencies to buy their own home could struggle to get on the property ladder.

Investors in digital currencies, some of which have increased nearly 1,500 per cent in the past 12 months, are being rejected by British mortgage lenders and brokers, with firms citing money-laundering and inability to trace the source of the money as primary concerns.

Cryptocurrencies, which are not regulated by central banks, are held digitally and allows owners to remain anonymous - making them an ideal currency for criminals.

Lenders are required to find out the origin of any money used in a deposit scheme, usually in the form of bank statements or a signed letter from a parent gifting money, but cryptocurrencies only identify users by a digital address.

The refusal to accept cryptocurrencies as a form of legitimate tender could hurt younger generations who deem it one of the only ways to get on the housing ladder.

Mark Stallard, a broker and principal at House and Holiday Home Mortgages, revealed that one public sector worker who made £40,000 from investing in digital currencies was refused a mortgage as he was unable to prove where he got obtained the money.

Mr Stallard said: 'The first mortgage lender I ran asked me what a cryptocurrency was. I rang two other lenders and they said they would not touch it.'

He added there were signs that a lot more people were obtaining money from cryptocurrencies but that lenders were reluctant to accept them.

A number of building societies have said they will not accept deposits derived from a cryptocurrency, while Santander, Nationwide and Aldermore said they had no policy.

Max Wilde, a professional who made a six-figure sum from cryptocurrencies, said it was 'crazy' that his deposit might be rejected. He said: 'There seems to be a silent decision made by the banking sector that cryptocurriences are dodgy or illegal.'

Robert Sinclair, chief executive of the Association of Mortgage Intermediaries, a trade body for mortgage brokers, told the FT: 'The money-laundering aspect of cryptocurrency is the most complex issue here because it's hard to prove where the initial investment came from.'

Ray Boulger, from mortgage broker John Charcol, said it would be easier for someone to use their bitcoin-originated cash for a deposit if they waited six months before applying for a home loan.

He said: 'In practice, if you use money from your bank account for a deposit, lenders will typically ask to see three of six months' bank statements. So if you've had money in your account since then, the chances are it won't be a problem.'

In September last year, co-living pioneer The Collective announced they could accept Bitcoin as a deposit from prospective tenants.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5265605/Bitcoin-investors-face-BANNED-using-gains.html#ixzz544rJrk7T
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 95
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Bitcoin fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 1/13/2018 7:20:41 AM
Vlad, possibly the most famous speculative bubble was the Tulip bulb back in 1560? Some importers were bringing back Tulip bulbs from their Dutch colonies and were making lots of money on the back of it. Speculators seeing this got in on the act by buying bulbs nd pushing the price up. Towards the end, the speculators had established futures markets and bulbs were being sold many times a day without anyone ever handling them. It all came to an end when no one turned up to a routine auction, possibly because bubonic plague was going around at the time. Those people who had borrowed to buy bulbs and needed the money to pay their loans defaulted. The usual flight from the market followed. Of course it was the people who got in late who lost the most.

The nthere was the South Sea Bubble. The British East Indies Company was seen to be making money hand over fist for not apparently doing much. They did of course have the monopoly on trade granted by the British monarch at the time. Once again, people were envious of this success and so some people set up companies to emulate their success. Of course the shysters come along too but people are ever ready to believe in fools gold. One company was setup "a company for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is". Shares in this rose to £1000 each which back in 1720 would buy you a rather nice estate. Of course it fell back and people were bankrupted.

It won't surprise you to know that many of the people who got in first were the lords and ladies of this country, MPs and those in the know. Some of them did lose their jobs and were criticised by parliamentary committees but the reality is that much of the fallout was deflected by packing the committees with the chosen one.

So after all that rabbiting what does the article mean Vlad? Well that McAfee decided to make a lot of money for himself by buying some crypto currency, hyping it on social media and cashing in. He i a rich man and can afford to hype these things, he's probably already made enough money out of the upcycle that he can afford to lose a lot when it eventually crashes.
 Squareslice
Joined: 10/17/2016
Msg: 96
Bitcoin fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 1/16/2018 9:47:10 PM
And so it has come to pass that the bubble has been well and trully popped....
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 97
Bitcoin fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 1/28/2018 3:11:05 AM
It's all been quiet on the bitcoin front it's $ 11,800 at the moment. I haven't really been looking into it too much but it halved a few weeks ago although it's ten times what it was a year ago.

There is a new distributive ledger by Leemon Baird called hashgraph but it's only 18 months on from its white paper. It hasn't got a coin yet. What makes it different from blockchain is that it's asynchronous Byzantine fault tolerant.  Which amongst many things makes it something blockchain is not.

In English and I'm not saying this is in any way predictive or comprehensive, it means that it can make many more
transactions, like visa,  than bitcoin can at the moment and
there isn't the concomitant energy use.

Still I have not been following this arcana  too much lately since I'm firmly entrenched in gold.

Gold has its own futures or derivatives markets and a good predictor of that over the past decade has been the commitment of traders report. Or COT..and if that holds gold should be on the way down again from its $1350 ...it's a good predictor until it isn't.

Obviously I don't believe in Trump's seeming economic miracle. What has he done ? He's gone in to massive debt to pay for tax cuts. That is not a tax cut , not a shrinking of the state but an increase in the state.

He takes credit for the the various u.s. stock indices going up.But that means these shares are getting more expensive to buy.It just means more leverage for the banks and more debt enslavement for the masses.

So these tax cuts means the u s. treasury will issue another 1.2 trillion dollars in bonds this year, at the same time the fed are due to sell (quantitative tightening) $600 billion dollars of their balance sheet. Who is going to buy these bonds?

I do think pensions globally will be nationalised. Consider yourself warned.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 98
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Bitcoin fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 1/28/2018 4:35:04 AM
Hullo fun lovers. I'm in the weege doing a bit graft just now. Staying on site. The shops are miles away so im living on salami and whisky. (Well no quite but you get the idea).

Geezer shot and killed a couple of streets away a fortnight ago apparently. Sunny castlemilk eh?

Anyway i slaver. What about THIS bit of bonkerness then?..............


"GUN-TOTING robbers broke into a house and forced a wealthy cyber-currency trader to transfer his Bitcoin fortune to them, in what is thought to be the UK's first cryptocurrency robbery.

The value of the online currency has soared in recent months and is sitting at £8,000 per coin.

Thugs wielding guns and wearing balaclavas reportedly burst into the home in an Oxfordshire village and tied up the man's wife.

The Daily Mail reports they put the couple's baby outside in a pram and then forced the man to give them his online money.

The online trader lives in Moulsford, where a few episodes of Midsomer Murders have been filmed.

Schoolchildren were reportedly locked inside as a police helicopter looked for the suspects and quizzed local residents."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5441251/robbers-bitcoin-oxfordshire/
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 99
Bitcoin fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 1/28/2018 5:22:51 AM
Yes vlad it's not just the state that steals money. But the private sector too. Can't say I approve of that. Still it was an angle the guy should have thought of. I got an un-anticipated tax bill to be paid by January 31st and er July. .I'm already paying corporation taxes etc I have to say it ruined my saturday night but I'm rallying and I suppose I should have seen this particular angle coming . My accountant does not care, he's always so buoyant. His bed side manner stinks. I pay him a £130 a month. Come the revolution he really will have to get a job.

Say something about bitcoin, billy....I think a gold hashgraph cryptocurrency will win out. The only problem is it will be government run. The dollar index 102 a year ago now 89..Bitcoin $1,000 dollars a year ago now $11,800.


Nb ..Silver is the most undervalued asset in the world.


A little dribble and a sumptuous chip..........
 10ky
Joined: 11/15/2012
Msg: 100
Bitcoin fiat..the young can neither afford a house or a pension..with worse to come..
Posted: 1/30/2018 7:01:23 AM
There:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/coincheck-hack-nem-latest-updates-japan-bitcoin-theft-cryptocurrency-inspect-exchanges-south-korea-a8183281.html

$534 worth of NEM pinched by clicking a few buttons. Cryptocurrency has a long way to go before it becomes a viable thing. That unless someone imposes regulations (would defeat the purpose) as I expect to happen within a couple of years.
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