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Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it?      Home login  
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 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 151
Bitcoin - how many to buy VeeDubPage 7 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
Carnage....

The total crypto market cap on January 4th
was $707 billion dollars it's now $245 billion.
Bitcoin $19,982 on December 17th is now $6,573.
It's made a lot of people rich and an awful load of
people poor. Ripple has travelled all the way up
up to $3.44 and is now 47 cents. A market cap of
$148 billion now down to $ 18 billion dollars on
January 4th. An 88% crash.

I don't have any cryptos but I see how useful they have
been for some in say Venezuela for staying alive. Bitcoin
is useless as a currency too, there are many other cryptos
that are much better than bitcoin. And even better distributive
ledgers. Also it's not 100% trustworthy. :) I'm finding this out.

Already inferior technology, I still believe bitcoin may succeed
over a good period. One, because of its name recognition, two
because of its extensive infrastructure build out. And three,
because the dollar may just be future lousy money.

As for the price I think after all those who don't know what day of the
week it is, those who can't handle the reverses and those with weak
financial hands depart. I could see it heading over $50,000 dollars.
But I'm not betting on it.
 Squareslice
Joined: 10/17/2016
Msg: 152
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 4/2/2018 1:30:51 PM
No "currency" is trustworthy. It involves a promise, which you blatantly ignore constantly.
Dig under yer mattress n actually read read a bank note. I PROMISE to pay they bearer... what with? Ah... another note....


Who cares, really? Apart from the gits that play on computers in London.....
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 153
view profile
History
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 4/3/2018 11:04:58 AM
Read the last para to decide if this is bonkers or not!



Spotify worth close to $30bn as shares start trading

Shares in music streaming firm Spotify have surged after trading publicly for the first time on Tuesday in one of the year's most anticipated market debuts.

The stock opened at $165.90 (£118) - more than a quarter higher than the $132 guide price set by the New York Stock Exchange on Monday.

That values the Swedish firm at about $29.5bn - far more than the roughly $21bn value of Twitter.

The jump reflects healthy investor demand for shares in Spotify.

The company used an unconventional process to launch on public markets: instead of issuing new shares, early investors sold existing holdings.

The decision gave the firm's early backers a chance to cash in on its growth.

Traders huddled on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange on Tuesday morning, getting feedback from buyers and sellers to determine the price.

After the excitement of the launch, shares retreated slightly, trading around $160.

Spotify, which started offering its music service in 2008 as an upstart music platform, is now available in 65 countries.

It has added millions of users to its free-to-use ad-funded service in recent years, converting many of them to its more lucrative subscription service.

It is now the global leader with 71 million paying customers, twice as many as Apple Music, but is still yet to make a profit.

Spotify posted a loss of €1.23bn last year despite making revenues of €4bn.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 154
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History
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 4/3/2018 11:07:07 AM
To save you working it out, it is valued at about $432 per paying customer.

 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 155
view profile
History
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 5/10/2018 2:24:49 AM
Bitcoin today - 9355 dollars

 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 156
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 7/8/2018 1:00:26 PM
Bitcoin $6,800 was down at $ 5,800 I think ....
I own no bitcoin but I do try to follow it a bit .
Seems to me its detractors have a lot of good points.
And even though it has smashed the dollar out of
the ball park in its short history, it is not for the faint
hearted or the safest place to leave one's entire wealth.
We have yet to see how it reacts in a crisis.

January's vix implosion gave its critics some ammunition.
But I think it could do well ...still
not buying yet.

I'm in traffic .....

Anyway in dollar terms there is only $1.6 trillion
actual paper and coins in the world roughly divided
by a near 8 billion souls that only amounts to $200
dollars per man woman and child. Let's not argue and
say all this is real money too. And that all other money
(say the digits on an atm ) is just crypto money.

Then we have to say it's not very encrypted . And it's
not limited. Still laughing at crypto coins . At least they are fighting back.

On lighter note I'm going to see mama Mia in a couple
Of months. It's been a long time ....I've never seen the
film but I do love Abba .. might avoid abba 2 at the cinema.

Saw Hamilton last month very good but while we had
a box with our own toilet the view was not so good ..
Someone gave me the cd to make sense of it all after
And now I get it . The songs, lyrics, music and rapping are wonderful .
.it's so clever. George the 3rd is lovely.


Next time I'll understand it's the founding fathers
doing hip hop...and puting their moves on the ladies...
And better seating....


 duracell_bunny_one
Joined: 1/21/2015
Msg: 157
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 7/12/2018 11:58:12 AM
If anyone cares, todays value is:

4,671.58 Pound sterling

 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 158
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 7/12/2018 12:19:04 PM
Very naughty bunny putting it in sterling because I nearly spat my tea out when you led with the 4 there .
There may be people who bought at $20 ,000 And living in hope..its still above six thousand dollars as I type ....just..
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 159
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 7/15/2018 4:28:22 AM
About $6,361 .....roughly £4,800.....€ ? Don't care...

Elon Musk is in a bit of trouble on Twitter so I hear.
Apparently Elon who is a Socialist is giving money
to the republican party. Elon loves a tax payer subsidy
or welfare. People ...snowflakes ....have been saying
things like why are you funding people who cage children
and collude with Russians....?... Quite a lot
of them are climate deniers too ! Which of course Elon
with his private aircraft flying and space rockets isn't.


However Tesla are losing $12 million dollars a day with not much hope
of a viable future . So Some time in 2019 surely. I think Tesla himself died poor.

Donald Trump and his policies of protectionism. ...
He's starving the world of dollars. It's the globe's reserve, trade and petroleum currency.
The world has to undercut American producers to eat. Unless they find an alternative. Will they ?
And make America poorer or will Trump starve them .
.a bit...and make America great again. Can't help but think that a certain lump of metal
will have to be called in to finally sort this nonsense out. At least for a
while.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Exter.png


It's the ole up to date inverted pyramid of liquidity....
silver is good for buying food, paying obligations etc....hopefully it
won't come to that.
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 160
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 7/15/2018 12:57:44 PM
More musk; he offered a mini sub for the thai
cave rescue.........then something went wrong
and the thai rescue chief told Elon to stuff the
sub up his ..... ..Then ..man-under-pressure.. Elon called
the rescue chief a paedo which I think means child.

Bit coin ...$ don't know ...£ ?? € who cares....


In 2008 when er the economy collapsed because of
those pesky mortgage derivatives. We fixed it by
even more debt.. and business as usual. QE.
(money printing and debt expansion) was instigated
This has never been tried before. *eyes rolling up into
roof of my head* Anyway once we "recovered" the idea
was to reverse it all. So nine years into recovery in 2017 we had our biggest
QE..year. Some recovery.

Enter QT ....money destruction. Next month will be the first month that total QE.
Will stop growing and begin to go into decline .There is very little reporting of this.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 161
view profile
History
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 7/16/2018 1:37:18 AM
Every now and again a friend joins us for our Wednesday boys night out. He loves motorbikes and boring the socks off us about them forever producing photos on his phone of rare or one off bikes whose value is now stratospheric. I keep trying to ask the question about where this extra value is coming from but there is never an answer. An Aston Martin driven by Jim Clark has just sold for ten million, a record for an Aston.
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 162
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 7/16/2018 3:10:54 AM
The value is potentially ( if he sells the bike) in the end coming from workers without assets, the poor...

It's the fiat money getting devalued ( by government.) Of course your mate may be subject to a capital gains tax, which means your mate (the rich) and the government are stealing without legislation from the poor, who can't afford assets like pensions or housing because their labour is being continuously devalued by government.

Hence Brexit and Trump.

Of course at the moment this doesn't pertain too much to medicine...clothing ...energy or food ...thanks to oceans of debt .....
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 163
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 7/26/2018 9:55:07 AM
It's $8203......£ 6, 239 ...€...........
up nearly $2,000 dollars...gold is
getting smacked, about $1,230

Global saga . Wood level..(in dollars )
Total debt $247 trillion ...$170 trillion in 2008.
Debt hidden down the back of the sofa...$220 trillion approx...
Derivatives or unregulated IOU's $1.5 quadrillion dollars......
Inflated global GDP $70 trillion.


Tesla saga. . Tree level...
20 execs have left in the last three months.
Their supply chain has been asked for meaningful money.
Owes 2.6 billion to their suppliers already.
Total debt 10.5 billion
12 mill a day..loses...
Share price needs to stay at $360 for its continued
and eternal red ink to flow. At moment $308 dollars.
 duracell_bunny_one
Joined: 1/21/2015
Msg: 164
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 7/26/2018 11:51:36 AM
There's more than a wiff of Delorean about Tesla, but, we'll see..........

Many years ago, a certain Harold Wilson, prime minister & general prick,
devalued the pound, stating 'the pound in your pocket is still worth a pound' .....
so it was, until you tried to spend it - whereupon it was only worth about one & nine
(look it up)

Truth is, none of this matters much, National Debt is bollox, because no-one
is going to demand large scale repayment.

so there

'n' thats it 'n' all about it.........

 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 165
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 7/26/2018 2:44:55 PM
I have a nice story about Harold Wilson which
shows his nice side . But as bunny might say
this only encourages the generic pricks.
I think we devalued in 1931, 1949, 1967..
that was harold's 14% one. Do you remember
a few months after Harold departed number ten
in April 1976 the United kingdom of Great Britain
and Northern Ireland went bust? I bet a young forumite
happening upon this post would be surprised at that.

Anyway there was a devaluation in 1992. 18%....
Again in 2008 we had a 25% one.. brexit, on the 23rd of June 2016
was another one. These are really a transfer of
wealth away from the poor to the rich. Like in 1992
when Soros received a multi billion pound windfall.

Socialist Venezuela has been really good with the old
devaluation/confiscation game recently. I think the IMF is
estimating a 1,000 000% annualised inflation rate at years end.
So put simply if you were a millionaire and parked the cash under your bed
.in one year it would be utterly worthless.

This was once by capita , south America's richest country.
Still their minimum wage is $5,million
196,000 Bolivares an hour. (about $3 dollars) It's
now the 23rd worst hyperinflation in history.
Hungary 1949 being the worst ever. The denouement
is dwindling goods and services and barter.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 166
view profile
History
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 7/27/2018 5:34:34 AM
I have a story about Harold. I was getting the train from Liverpool one Sunday evening to get down to London to attend a course. I kept going along the platform looking for somewhere to sit and eventually I came upon a carriage which was pretty empty, so I chucked my case on and climbed the step only to find myself lifted of the ground and back on the platform with my case pretty damned smartish. It was of course reserved for Harold. Not a great lesson in socialism nor a good advert for it.
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 167
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 8/5/2018 7:49:02 AM
Bitcoin $7, 051 £5,420.. The Ugandan shilling 26 million ...The macanese pataca 57 thousand .The euro ...let's move on ..

Gold down again $1,213 the U.S. dollar continues to strengthens. The chinese yuan continues to weaken ( 6.83 now to get a dollar)

America continues to sell their central bank balance sheet and raise rates. So call QT. Quantitative tighening.

The UK property market continues to weaken. And the rest of the world is beginning to join in with Sydney down 4.5% in the April to June quarter. I don't know whether they are blaming Brexit.

Global QE. ( counterfeiting money) which was $ 125 billion dollars a year ago is now just $25 billion.
The central banks if we take them at their word will be removing counterfeited currency from the global economy
by year end.

The U.S. mid term elections are in November, so Trump continues to put taxes on Chinese imports .
He famously has far more Chinese goods to tax than the Chinese. Nevertheless the Chinese are delivering targeted tariffs themselves on Trump supporting states. They are also devaluing their currency which
negates America's taxes. I don't think the Chinese are going to back down because it will only embolden America. This is a currency war.

There are only four asset classes you can invest in ...commodities or stuff ..stocks or equities...bonds
debt etc.. and currencies.

Property has made us feel rich, especially lately .But it really is just a roof over our heads.It seems to me after that... it is one or all of the above paragraph' s asset classes..

Say land is the commodity. Presuming you own your house outright. It won't stop your neighbours levelling taxes on your land. Debt is the mortgage ( literally meaning death pledge). The stock is your
share of the asset, ie 100% equity , 50%, 5% , -125 %. And what currency you owe your debt in, this matters as fiat currencies do compete with each other on their way to zero value, that is no purchasing power whatsoever.

Commodities, equities, bonds and currencies' prices are contingent on interest rates. The lowest interest
rates in five thousand years of economic history have given us the highest asset prices in five thousand years.

I'm not saying tomorrow we are going back to the highest interest rates and lowest asset prices in history. I'm just saying I see ever gathering fragility in the system due to debt that will not paid back.

America we are told looks so strong now. Distractions are everywhere. China has massive debt problems .
Really? I'm sure America has massive debt problems?It's like really hard to join the dots for some people.
Whether they're ignorant, clever or venal.

Emerging markets are now having a hard time. Because with U.S. interest rates rising and the dollar strengthening their debt denominated in dollars is becoming more costly to service in their local currencies. Meaning distress.

But global "markets" don't care. It's "their" problem and our opportunity to make money. "Markets " have become conditioned to believe that this won't get contagious over the last ten years. Deleveraging has not beget deleveraging. But that's only because they have had the printing press! We can all stay solvent if we could "print" money. Ten years really is a lifetime to some traders.

So the printing press is going away isn't It? America is back, it's all great again. America is no longer the greatest debtor nation in history. Eh..

Well these traders might reason that if it did get contagious America could return to the printing press. And we could just keep repeating the same policies over and over .

History is replete with this behaviour although It's never happened on a global scale.

It's all about confidence .... and those who believe in the magical vista our globalist politicians paint for us..

As margaret might have said if she hadn't kicked the bucket and eased up on the old age brain fog....

Socialism is fun until you run out of your neighbour's money....
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 168
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 8/11/2018 12:29:26 PM
Just to leaven things a bit. It's been a torrid
week for our beloved globalist economy . And I for one say thank God for Britain
( really the south-east of England) Mike Ashley and Frank .


Bitcoin $ 6,417....

Your lovely pound sterling will get you $1.28 ....8.21 Turkish lira .....8.73 Chinese
Yuan....86.43 Russian rubles.....and  global currency....0.91 of a special drawing rights.
And you'd need £948 of our pounds to get an ounce of gold.
Up from about £930 last week.

Those ten year yields .....now, remember all but one of these countries are and
have been fixing their bond markets and hence all asset prices these last ten years.
I wonder who could have been behaving responsibly in respect to one's
nation's future.


US ten year 2.87%..... Money pouring into this most "safest" of havens.
UK ten year 1.24%..
Australia ...2.59%..
Germany ...0.31%..
France ....0.67 %...
Italy ....3%....
Japan     .09%....
Russia ..  8.3%

Mr Erdogan has had an awful week his ten year yields have blown out to 20.67%
He really wants the fiat currency debauchery of the last ten years to continue.
But America really is not listening at the moment. Meanwhile the European Central Bank
is looking anxiously at old Erdee because their banks notably
in France , Italy and Spain have been lending fake money to the Turks . I think
it's about €135 billion euros (€80 billion ...Spain)

Of course with the Turkish lira down about 41% this year , repayment may be a
problem. The perils of fake hot currency inflows eh...Turkey's foreign currency
debt is 70% of GDP now as opposed to 39% in 2009.

See once an empire starts the old money counterfeiting game it doesn't stop.
America is giving all the impression that this is not so
And alas poor Turkey seems to have had its socialism stopped this week. Awful.
What was it Maggie said....

Other news from the venerable organ that is the Saturday Mail..

Tories take a 4% lead over Labour...
U.K. growth outstrips euro zone gulag. Vlad will love that titbit.
And Mike Ashley "saves" house of Fraser.
Lovely story regarding frank Bruno. I didn't read it but the pictures
were lovely.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 169
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History
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 8/13/2018 2:14:22 AM
The whole thing is bonkers just driven by a small number of people to makes lots of money from poorer people. The pound is down now apparently against the Euro because Trump has added import duties to Turkey's exports of steel and aluminium. That seems OK if they're dumping the stuff but is that the reason? Seems not. Seems to be more likely to be tied to Turkey buying Russian missiles and not American ones. The world is a complicated place. Turkey is a NATO member and allows US planes on its soil to bomb Syria but this latest Trump idea might get Turkey lining up with Russian and Syria. What does that mean for us? Well, Turkey may retaliate and let loose 3 million Syrian refugees on Europe and allow free access to the Boshporus for the Russia Black Fleet (rusting old heaps though they are). There's also the possibility that Turkish holidays for Brits may become expensive or even not too safe.

It may seem obtuse but that does appear to be the reason why your cotton socks from Thailand will cost more next week than last.
 rekirked
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 170
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 8/13/2018 2:36:51 AM

The whole thing is bonkers just driven by a small number of people to makes lots of money from poorer people.


What is money? I don’t even see it as money anymore. To me it’s all just hours you’ve worked and saved if your fortunate or hours you've promised to someone else and you’ve yet to work if your not.

The phrase “Time is money” has always seemed the wrong way around, to me anyway.
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 171
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 8/13/2018 2:45:14 AM
Hi chap it's good to hear your views . Yes it's bonkers .
Although if you were Turkish you could use it to get your money out if old erdee was to institute capital controls. Be interesting to see how Bitcoin would do in a dollar crisis ..the jury is out. If I were a juror I would say it would do ok. But I have no skin in the
game.

Yeah 3 million refugees .....He also has a number of systemically challenged European banks at his mercy.

Turkish property is far cheaper now about 40%, so far year to date. Although property taxes could be a
problem. It's going to be a long day..

10 year Turkish yields now 22%...who would have a mortgage in Bodrum ....

Working people need to transact in money. Not
fiat currency. Elites steal their people's wealth by the process of governmental inflation. Something that is always seen as an inevitable fault of capitalism .
Ha Ha ...

Turkey is experiencing inflation now. Wealth is being transferred from the poor to the rich now.
The elites or the remainers have destroyed the world There are no good choices. And still their lackeys
propagate their trash talk.

If I had to say one thing that is a at the bottom of all this apart from decades of socialism. It would be that China's cost benefit relationship with the USA has reach a crossroads. Either China gets taken down now or it is thought by American policy makers it will be too late in a decade or so.

In 1900 Germany was threatening England's global supremacy . They were taken out. Although global
hegemony was only restored in 1945 with the United States of America then having their time in the sun.

While history doesn't repeat it rhymes....Mark Twain

More expensive ..kirk...vvv

 rekirked
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 172
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 8/13/2018 3:12:11 AM
Yes billy but how is any of that going to impact on the price of an M&S sarnie at lunchtime?
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 173
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 8/13/2018 11:08:58 AM
Kirk can you stop advertising m&s sandwiches please.


 rekirked
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 174
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 8/13/2018 11:51:20 AM
They are in a league of their own. The only thing that comes close is a co-op chicken and stuffing, tastes even better with a meal deal.


In order to maintain the highest quality sandwich you are restricted to having no more then 2 of the last 10 on a meal deal
Since 10 of the last 10 posts are yours you are indeed a bit of a bloater
 billybonds
Joined: 8/8/2014
Msg: 175
currency... as real as a dude on a cloud
Posted: 8/13/2018 12:12:08 PM
Yes I do like chicken and stuffing ... and the co-op is
a surprisingly fine purveyor of comestibles . This
Morning I had a large tea with a hash brown and
a customised double egg and sausage mc muffin..
I had the egg removed and had the computer put some bacon in.
Well ...it was rather lovely kirk. It's
a great pity I can't repeat the culinary feat now.
Stop over posting kirk. .....and missing sitters..


That all the policing done with now...
Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Bitcoin - just how bonkers is it?