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 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 276
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)Page 12 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
It's worrisome when you see someone distressed like that. No one really knows a person's level of depression, and if they feel too overwhelmed to cope.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 277
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 7/26/2018 5:18:19 PM
Unless they tell you, you may not even discover they are depressed. We hide it well because no one wants to be around someone who is miserable all the time so we pretend to be happy. They figure I suffered depression since I was 17 and it become a problem when I was 35. It is unfortunate basilisk has to fend for himself without treatment. From his posts I'm not sure if he's even taught himself any coping skills.

Aqua I'm not diagnosing you, I can't do that and I've never been looking for signs of depression as we've talked because unless it's a blatantly obvious symptom I wouldn't notice. Maybe you suffer mild depression when things get chaotic in your life like now. I don't see clinical depression ever being a part of your life because it has been so difficult and you keep overcoming things eventually. If I had to deal with the things your dealing with and dealt with over the past 6 months I'd be hiding under the blankets. I don't know if I mentioned it but I knew you would recover when you said this in post 48


I haven't lost interest in eating, am not sleeping as much as a you would expect a depressed person to do, still have a healthy appetite, etc.

When depression ramps up it can have the opposite effect and keep you awake with worry. If that would have happened your problems would have magnified beyond comprehension. As a result that endless circle would have become uncontrollable damn fast.

Aqua I have to say I'm really interested to see what you have to say about these thoughts of mine. I've never read about my illness and can't help but wonder how it compares to what you were taught.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 278
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 7/29/2018 12:02:20 PM
Depression can be a passing thing when people get into a funk. It doesn't always require meds or even therapy.

Depression can certainly get worse with age, especially if it's left untreated. Parents don't always recognize symptoms.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 279
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 7/30/2018 5:45:04 PM
[his is the second time in a month you've alluded to ending it. The first time I considered it an afterthought and again it is an afterthought to me but the fact you've done it twice in such a short time bothers me. Thinking it even in passing is not something you want to be doing. You had mentioned Bailey had busted down the bathroom door and probably saved you. This is when I began to think you were susceptible to depression. I saw immediately when you created this thread what to me was severe depression but I couldn't fathom grief so I tried to help you based on my experience. I knew as the grief subsided the depression would to. It took a while but you were able to overcome it. You still have tears sometimes when you think about him but that's normal. However your fear of failure isn't normal by societies standards. So here goes.]

I never considered this, but you are right. I can understand why it would alarm someone. I'd say I am very susceptible to depression. Why wouldn't I be? I'm 36, am apparently very smart but can't get a job that would utilize that education, still live at home, etc. A few of those condos were listed in the last few days, so you know that has me pissed off. Daisy is here, but I miss Bailey. As I write this, I have skin missing in several places, am dealing with the effects of concussion, etc. I made he mistake of letting Daisy off her tie-out tonight, when a black dog just passed by. I thought she would just walk in, but she took off. Not much fun, and I obviously have proof of it, but.... As I said before, I an be in a great mood; but the slightest bit of bad news brings those clouds back. Add in the fact that you-know-who is back, and although my mom won't confirm it, he's here to stay. Everything she told me she would never do again she has done. Not only am I pissed at her, but at myself for not getting out of here/thinking my previous plans out better, and setting myself up for success better. If Bailey were here that would be a great help to me, but he's not. So I'm stuck.

[It's the endless circle. For you, no job, fear of failure, that ***holes back, brother, no job, fear of failure, i need that settlement, no relationship, no job, brother, Bailey's gone, can't sleep, no job, and so on. However your progressing towards racing thoughts which can't be turned off. Then you'll begin second guessing things from the past and they will become a part of the endless circle. Anything you do wrong will expand that depression.]

It is an endless circle. I can't help but think about all my mistakes/bad decisions, and conclude that I really ruined my own life. There is no chance for anything at this point, if you ask me. Let's say I do go back to school. That will set me back another two years. So, I will never really get a real job until I am 39. Really? Now that "recovery" is back around, I am trying like crazy to get the hell out of here. I'm pretty sure that when I do get out of here, I won't have anything to do with my family. I plan to get a restraining order with my dad's name on it, and today i told my mom when we came home and I saw more evidence of the old him, that I hope her undying love and devotion for him pays off, because you will have him; but it might cost you me. I almost killed myself twice because of all this. I wonder who she would blame if I had gone through with it. It's really insane. Add in the job thing, and the fact that it is pretty much going nowhere, and I would like to say that I am depressed. I may go to the gym every day, but that's pretty much all my enjoyment. Maybe hooking up with a girl for one night is what I need; to give me a little bit of a different experience.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 280
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 7/31/2018 12:21:13 PM
To put things into perspective, about your mom's place, it's her life and her right to have whoever she wants there. Get your own place, then you dictate who you want there. That's how it works. Focus on your life.

Your life isn't horrendous like you think it is. You just need a job and your own place. The longer you stay unemployed, the harder it is to get a job. Employers don't like gaps in employment. It doesn't show a good work ethic.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 281
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 7/31/2018 1:03:01 PM
[Aqua, I'm just playing bad cop to Rise's good cop. He's being more understanding and empathetic, while I'm being more supportive in wanting you to get a job and move out.]

Never thought about good cop/bad cop. Now that you mention it, that's probably why I need. I won't say that I am being treated like a baby, since that is definetley now the case. My "recovering drunk" is being treated like a baby. As I mentioned to Rise in another post, the only time my mom and I every argue is when it concerns him/he's the subject. I told her yesterday, after we came home and I saw a little evidence of the old him, that I hope her undying love and devotion pays off in the end; you can have him, but it might just cost you me. That's what I feel she is doing here. She said she let him come home for only money purposes(this whole thing cost my mom about 25.000). Yet, he only has a small part-time job. There might be an opportunity for him to get a job in his old field away from the house/he's have to live somewhere closer, but he won't do that He wants to stay at home. I told my mom that if I get the job I mentioned to you, and when I do get my insurance money, she will have to make a choice. I am not supporting him; not after everything he has done. I told her I would pay for the sober living house, so let's see who she picks. My bet is that I will hear "he supported you" . Yes, if things would have worked for me as I had planned, Bailey and I would have moved to those condos, and washed our hands/paws of them.

If Bailey were here, he'd help a lot with this. He wouldn't let that fool within 6 feet of me. Anytime he came near me, Bailey would be up in his face growling. That's the special bond my and Bailey had. I won't say it's all his fault, but I have lost friends because I'm a low-grade control freak, thanks to being the adult child of an alcoholic. Don't forget about that fear of failure. That's a characteristic too.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 282
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 7/31/2018 1:35:30 PM
Don't get me wrong, I understand how you feel about this situation with your mom and dad. I had an ex whose mom took back her ex that was a dirtbag. He wasn't a good father or a good husband. He was a cheater too, had a kid with a woman he was cheating with. He was happy to come back to my ex's mom, since he started sporting a colostomy bag.

You're mom is throwing a lot of money at him, her security in life. Why do you want to throw good money after bad? Also, it's a bad investment.

Being stagnant in life is a choice, so you're still making choices. Don't think you aren't, because you are, from the moment you open your eyes each day. Everything you do, every day, they're choices. Bailey may have served to be a support system, but you can't always count on them since our lifespan crests theirs.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 283
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/1/2018 4:27:39 AM
278
Parents don't always recognize symptoms

Most parents don't know the symptoms of depression because there is no reason to learn them. It's no different than any other disease, until you or someone you know suffers from it the average person has no interest and couldn't be bothered to learn. Everything is learned and high school teaches us nothing about dealing with the problems we might encounter during life and that's where it should start. Knowing what we know now would you change the high school curriculum to reflect today's needs rather than learning to recite a poem written 300 years ago or taking algebra which most people don't need. I would. Few people learn about depression until they crash into it and often it's too late.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 284
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/1/2018 4:45:21 AM

It is an endless circle.

Our lives are an endless circle. It's called a routine and involves work, our own time, sleep, die. It lasts all our lives and varies very little. Mine hasn't changed in 11 years while the previous one was 18 years long. In the 15 years (?) you and Bailey were together did your routine change much day to day? Even now after his passing you have a routine of some sort though it has been changing these past few months due to the events in your life. Job and him being the main ones at the moment.


I can't help but think about all my mistakes/bad decisions, and conclude that I really ruined my own life.

When I was 15 without knowing it I ruined my own life and it was a choice I made that caused it. I smoked my first joint and I pay for it now. You didn't make any mistakes, you made choices that haven't worked out and as a result your life is where it is now. Will you make the wrong choices again. You wont know until you make that choice or any choice.


Don't forget about that fear of failure.

When did that fear of failure begin. I mean can you look back in your life and figure out when you first feared you would fail. Keep in mind that as children our greatest influences on our personalities are those around us. This makes me wonder if that fear didn't develop because you learned early on what failure was and as a result you fear it so much. I'm thinking you learned it from your dad through observation and you fear it so much because you don't want to be like him. I see it as an unconscious thought which only surfaces when it comes time to make major decisions. YOud know better of course.

"Our own time" is not our own due to the fact we can't shut our minds off. Now that he's arrived you are facing a seemingly insurmountable problem because it's been happening all your life. As I said before you should treat him as a non-person and maybe to the point that you tell him specifically not to talk with you ever. If he does ignore him. Sure call him a fuking asshole under your breathe but don't aggravate it by interacting with him creating more conflict and more anger within you. You don't seem to realisehow upsetting this situation is for your mom even though she doesn't show it. I'll expand on it with the next post which I hope to finish tonight.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 285
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/1/2018 7:31:34 AM
A parent that's intune with their child should recognize something is wrong, like becoming reclusive, not wanting to participate in what they usually do, grades going downhill, a sad demeanor. They may not realize at first that it's depression, but with further examination they'll find out.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 286
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/1/2018 12:18:50 PM
[You're mom is throwing a lot of money at him, her security in life. Why do you want to throw good money after bad? Also, it's a bad investment]

Good question! I told my mom this would happen again, but of course she "felt" differently. I've never been wrong, when it comes to him and this situation. I have multiple job opportunities; one of which is a health and wellness company that is looking for an online coach. I interviewed for something similar a few months back, and according to them I was not selected because of some small aspect the director favored in someone else. Yet, I am still next in line. Don't forget about that tutoring thing. If I get one/both of those jobs, plus the tutoring I do online, my mom will have to make a choice. She either let's him stay, and I move in with my grandma(I know), or I help with the bills and he moves into a sober living place. As it stands right now, he isn't doing a damn thing. Not working around the house, etc. They got into it last night because my mom is tired of seeing him laying around, which is exactly what I knew would happen. My mom is "married" to a child. I need to start taking care of myself. Why she continues to believe his lies I don't know. I seem to think he has some kind of control over her. As I told her yesterday, I hope her love and devotion to him pays off in the end. You can have him, but it might just cost you me.

[Being stagnant in life is a choice, so you're still making choices]

I agree. I did choose what to have for breakfast this morning, and I did choose to chase Daisy the other day(when she busted out). That's why I have a partially-broken arm, concussion, and stiff neck. I think the problem is that I was just enjoying the fact that he wasn't around so much I just let things happen. I should have prepared myself for what I knew would happen. I am motivated now, that is for sure. My therapist noticed a change in me, and I think him being back here and me wanting to break away from this family has everything to do with it. I stand by my claim that once I do leave(hopefully to those condos), I plan on getting a restraining order with his name on it. Maybe even my mom too, because of all this. I deserve better, as my therapist said. It's time for me to make it happen.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 287
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/1/2018 12:52:51 PM
[In the 15 years (?) you and Bailey were together did your routine change much day to day? Even now after his passing you have a routine of some sort though it has been changing these past few months due to the events in your life. Job and him being the main ones at the moment.]

To be honest with you, I don't know. I guess you can say it did, depending on the weather. If the ground was clean, we were walking in the park or on the golf course. I can't say for sure if things have changed. I still go to the gym at the same time, etc. Now with Daisy, I'd like to think we keep the same routine. I would like to change things up a little bit; add a job in there, etc.

[You didn't make any mistakes, you made choices that haven't worked out and as a result your life is where it is now. Will you make the wrong choices again. You wont know until you make that choice or any choice.]

Never considered this. I guess I made those choices because I thought they were the best at the time. Nothing has really worked out for me, as far as plans are concerned. I like to say that any time plans work out for me it's a fluke, a dream, or a bad joke on me. My therapist mentioned that I am not quiting/giving up on anything. I am taking a different path, because what I am doing now isn't working out. He called it hitting the "reset" button, and oddly that made me feel a little better. As far as choices, I'm afraid to make any choices at all(especially those I want to), because history tells me that nothing work out as I plan it to. That's where the whole fear thing kicks in. It's basically paralyzed me, in a lot of ways. Even if hell were to freeze over and I wanted to ask someone out, I would never do it. I'd just reason that they are probably taken, and move on. Why risk the embarrassment.

[When did that fear of failure begin. I mean can you look back in your life and figure out when you first feared you would fail.]

If I had to ballpark it, I would say my late 20s or early 30s is when things really got bad. I'm sure he has a lot to do with it. I am the adult child of an alcoholic, no matter how "fixed" he thinks he is after. It's hard to say how much he is responsible for this, but I'd like to think it's a lot. I guess I am just fueled by the past. The past tells me things never work out the way I want them to, so why should I expect something different this time? You'd probably have to drug me if you wanted me to try something different. What you say about treating him as a non-person seems a lot like what my therapist told me to do: treat him like a boarder/roommate. You wouldn't go out of your way to piss a roommate off, but you also wouldn't make sure things are all peachy-clean either. I do ignore him, and try to stear clear of him. I jut can't stand him, and knowing that he played my mom again is very upsetting. If I do instigate it, which I haven't recently, it's because I want to make things as uncomfortable for him as I possibly can. Do you see how insane this whole situation is? It's never going to end until I pack my bags and ditch this family for good. I told New Yorker that i told my mom I hope your undying love and devotion pays off in the end. you can have him, but it might cost you me. That's what Bailey would want for his primary slave; he's want me to be happy.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 288
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/1/2018 9:50:02 PM

I told her yesterday,

Yes i read it yesterday. I don't think you should be telling her anything like that since you can't see her point of view due to the fact you're emotionally involved in the situation. Can you look at it from her point of view alone without involving your emotions and opinions? She has taken back the man who ruined her life, completely disappointed you and she has to live with this. Add to that her worry over you and your job situation. What is she thinking when she isn't doing anything? She is worrying about you and him and the choices she just made and the effect it had on you and about your brother and about money and so on. The endless circle of life which she has been living.

Is she dealing with all this alone? When Bailey passed away did talking with me help? Who does she have to talk with while all this turmoil is going on. She's dealing with everything alone probably as she has always done. I imagine she is unsettled a lot but just doesn't show it because that's what she's always done. There are reasons she did what she has done, why not find out what they are instead of assuming what they might be. Maybe if you knew the reasons, you wouldn't be directing the anger you feel for him towards her. She isn't responsible for what he became but feels responsible for him and you and your brother. She's worried a lot of her life.

Damn I hope that makes sense. It wasn't what I planned on writing but I feel you're to harsh on your mom. Everyone has free will but it is subject to their personality and cannot overrule ones conscience. Basically she did what she thought was the most right in order to satisfy her conscience. If she didn't what could happen?


Even if hell were to freeze over and I wanted to ask someone out, I would never do it. I'd just reason that they are probably taken, and move on. Why risk the embarrassment.

Does that fear of failure extend into your dating life? This is the first time you mentioned something like this. When I was young I was terrified of asking a girl out for fear she would say no.
 beercookies
Joined: 5/24/2012
Msg: 289
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/2/2018 8:39:21 AM
Aqua, your mindset is really killing any happiness you can build now and in the future. You are doing it to yourself, over and over. Your negative mind is the driver, your negativity and pessimism feels safe to you. A huge chunk of it is due to your influences. Move out and you will have new challenges- maybe a roommate issue, money problems, loneliness, but also new serenity and happiness after some growing pains.

It takes time to live differently and be different, and better than what you were before.
Your generation expects things instantly. No, you need to be consistent and apply efforts tediously until it pays off.
Everybody needs to feel in control of their lives, and to be around positive people. Get these 2 things and a lot of your
issues will be relieved tremendously.

You need to figure out your long term plan. Not short term..what will make you happy and then work actively to build your happiness by not catastrophizing, staying on course no matter the setback and commit fully to yourself and that includes experimenting with different ways of being instead of digging in heels stubbornly and calcifying your old regimes that never worked- like empty ultimatums at your mom. She is your mom, quit the drama, just step back and live your life. Same with bro.

The people who pass through- let them pass and don't bear animosity. Focus on those who stay and determine if those connections work for you healthily or not.

You have a lot of unrealistic ideas like everybody should like you or get you when the reverse isn't true- not everybody is your cup of tea. You don't hate these people, don't look down on them necessarily, right?

Not everybody superficially attractive is for you. If you think they are, you are looking only at the surface and aren't applying but superficial criteria, which many people do.

Those are the people in never ending drama. A pretty face confuzzles many.

What you said about fearing success is spot on. If some gal was way into you, you might implode, true. It is human and understandable - these happy circumstances can be rare enough. But they can and do happen from time to time. But, only if you are open and get to know people without your walls up. As for embarassment, there are ways to minimize that if you get acquainted enough, you can tell if the answer might be yes, if you see any indicators if interest. But that comes with knowing the person a little vs asking strangers for numbers. Who does that anymore? Does not work.
 Clytemnestra
Joined: 6/6/2018
Msg: 290
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/2/2018 8:57:03 AM
msg#289:

You need to figure out your long term plan. Not short term..what will make you happy and then work actively to build your happiness by not catastrophizing, staying on course no matter the setback and commit fully to yourself and that includes experimenting with different ways of being instead of digging in heels stubbornly and calcifying your old regimes that never worked- like empty ultimatums at your mom. She is your mom, quit the drama, just step back and live your life. Same with bro


+1

Also, your mom and dad have their own issues to work through which have nothing to do with you---you're just stressing out your mom even more by giving her ultimatums and grief about her choices. Do you think she really likes having an adult son around who judges her, finds her wanting, gives her ultimatums while he freeloads off her? Not likely.

We all have to find our own path through life. Your mom is walking hers (no matter how much you disapprove). Time for you to do the same. Pay attention to your own life, let others do as they will (because they will, regardless of how you pout...)

Good luck~
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 291
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/2/2018 9:13:01 AM
I have to agree about your mom situation. I understand your disgust, but it's her life, her home. You had mentioned she starts to talk to you about your personal life, and you shut her down, but are trying to impose your desires on her, and I get you want something better for her.

You're letting everyone else's personal life serve as distractions for your life. You can have a great life. It's there right in front of you. What's that saying, a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and the next step probably shouldn't be to go live with your grandmother now, which you already know☺
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 292
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/2/2018 8:20:00 PM
279
I may go to the gym every day, but that's pretty much all my enjoyment.

What do you do during the day to killtime?

236
I have friends, but for some reason I am always fearful of asking them to do stuff.
She also seems to think I have no fun in my life, with the exception of working out.

To begin with your mother was right because she has a Master's Degree based on you and your brother and is always righting the thesis. You don't seem to realise how much she pays attention to her children. As for friends you state you don't go out with them so what do you do during the day to kill time since you appear to have a lot of "your own time" to kill.

7
Avoid downtime. Try to keep your mind occupied with other things. I imagine when you're showering all you think about is him for there is nothing else to think about it.

From the start I was encouraging to find things to do to distract you from thinking about Bailey's passing. Now to me it appears you don't have many distractions.

291
You're letting everyone else's personal life serve as distractions for your life.

Do you have any idea during the day how often you think about your situation and do you do it while you are doing something? I think Newyorker is write you are spending to much time thinking about it because you don't have enough other distractions. If so, that might be the reason your anger flares so much because of him. What do you you do to kill time during your day? I don't need to know the answer but if this the you need to find more distractions.

147
To be honest with you, I think I have already accepted the fact that I will be flying solo. I'm pushing 36, and as far as I am concerned; my "window of opportunity" is slammed shut and locked.

You've accepted this and as a result your future will mean spending a lot of time alone and you will need distractions assuming you don't have many. I have no idea how you spend your time but you will need to fill it if you are going to live like this. I know because I gave up dating and now have to fill all "my own time." Mines a little extreme because I have a phobia about crowds and almost never go out. As a result other than my family and you the rest of my life is just a distraction.

You need to be doing something to distract you from what is going on in your life now and possibly for the future. Spend to much time thinking about your problems and that itself can become a problem.

When will you find out about that job? How are you getting along with Daisy?
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 293
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/3/2018 8:00:31 PM
For the previous post I perused everything we wrote Aqua and came across something so I'll ask. Do you have an anger problem? You displayed it from the start though I thought it was grief and depression causing it. It keeps cropping up and I did piss you off with my post 253.

254
Believe it or not, I work best when I am angry.
I am angry. Anger seems to really piss me off/motivate me.

These two quotes make wonder if you see anger as a good thing. Have you considered taking Anger Management? Actually I'm just screwing with you. I've taken it. It's just a bullshit course created by clueless do gooders who think it will change someone's personality. It may help some but the numbers would be low. I got kicked out for questioning the instructor about this. Until you respond there isn't anything else to say about it.

279
I'd say I am very susceptible to depression.

270
I may get depressed, but I take my depression up to the gym.

As you can see the quotes are reversed in order of date. With all that's going on do you think depression has kicked in some? Could it be masked by your anger? No I'm not diagnosing you (did I say that once before). Not something a "mental defective" (One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest) like me can do. Considering how fu[/d]cked up your life is at the moment it is a possibility. Since you think the past predicts the future see if you can combine it with alone, lack of distractions, and depression. Then add your frustrations and anger and figure out a possible future. I know it's fricken abstract but try and do it and see what you come up with for your future.

289
Aqua, your mindset is really killing any happiness you can build now and in the future.

To me that's quite the understatement. That mindset has been going on so long Aqua don't you think it is part of your personality now? Difficult to change it though it is possible.

Well that's enough writing, rambling, babbling or whatever for now though I may continue. I need the distraction.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 294
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/7/2018 1:15:18 PM
[Can you look at it from her point of view alone without involving your emotions and opinions? She has taken back the man who ruined her life, completely disappointed you and she has to live with this]

Believe it or not, I look at this whole situation through what my books/classes have taught me. My books tell me that serious effort must be made to change. I don't see that in him. He goes to a meeting or two, does absolutely nothing around the house, etc. There should be small signs that indicate real change, and I haven't seen them. I don't believe I ever will, no matter how I look at this. It wasn't only I who was jumping up and down telling my mom not let him back home; my uncle, aunt, grandma, etc. She doesn't listen to anyone. I can only imagine how my grandfather would receive all this. He probably would have killed my "dad". God could stare my mom in the face and tell her not to let him back in, and she still wouldn't listen. The issue is her "happily ever after" fantasy gets her every time. She has so much false hope it's ridiculous. If Bailey were here that would make things a little better for me, but he's resting now. The real him was back this past weekend, and I am almost certain he had something to drink. I'd bet my life on it. At one point she even said I was right all along. The whole idea with my mom letting him come back "temporarily" is money. His crap has cost my mom at least 25,000. As mentioned, my credit rating is destroyed. So, his "promise" to get a job and all that has gone up in smoke. So, the money he was supposed to bring in is nowhere to be found. I know have multiple possibilities, as far as jobs are concerned. Therefore, I will be the other source of money. Don't forget about that insurance settlement. At that point sh3e will have to make a choice, because I am not supporting him. Not after everything he has done(and continues to do). I told my mom that I would not support him living there. I said I would go as far as moving to my grandma's, and helping her with her bills. She has trouble because my mom had to borrow money from her to help pay for various rehabs. The ball might just be in my court this time, and I am not messing around. Someone has to teach him a lesson. My brother wants nothing to do with him, and neither do I. I made sure I told my brother that he told me "it doesn't matter" if he sees his daughters/grandkids, if it means moving to a sober living house. I told my therapist that when I do move out for good, I plan to get a restraining order. I don't want him bothering me at all: no calls, no texts, and not showing up at the condo. Due to all this, I might just add my mom's name too.

[Who does she have to talk with while all this turmoil is going on.]

Me, and sometimes my brother. As I mentioned, he is becoming less and less interested in the whole situation. He's not resenting my mom like I am, but he's getting tired of the insanity. He has his own life, children, etc. I don't know if she talks to my grandma or other family members at all. I'm sure they don't care either, and are upset with her for falling for it again, and letting "happily ever after" ruin what used to be a stable, non-violent place where she and I didn't argue a lot. The only thing we argue about is him, and according to my brother the only time he ever argues with his wife is when he is the subject. If only Bailey were here. Daisy is really starting to take a liking to me. We are playing with the tennis ball more often, etc. It was raining hard last night. She usually sleeps in another room, but last night she wanted to sleep with the man of the house. Not the lady, and certainly not the overgrown child. The man of the house: me.

[oes that fear of failure extend into your dating life? This is the first time you mentioned something like this. When I was young I was terrified of asking a girl out for fear she would say no.]

I'd say you're right. I've never asked a girl out that I met in public. If my stylist were not engaged, I would probably try and date her. We get along great, and although she has quit to pursue a career as a vet tech, we still stay in touch, and are planning on meeting for lunch/coffee at some point. As for anyone else, I just assume they are taken and don't even bother. As far as I am concerned, any girl that other guys would want would never pick me. I've only really messed with online dating, since I don't go out much. When I did, I obviously didn't ask any girls out. I just take my results online to sum up how successful I would be in the real world. If you ask me, considering the "no chemistry" "excuse" and all that,dating these days is a woman's game. I just don't see me being successful at it, so I don't bother. So, I guess it is fear. I'm staring to think I will be the "dog guy", the male equivalent to a "cat girl". My dog(s) will love me unconditionally. I have a hard time believing a woman would ever do that for me. I appologize if it sounds like I am ranting, but that's just how I feel.

Life would be easier if my PIC was here, but he's done his work and has earned his rest.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 295
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/7/2018 2:45:35 PM
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, your mom - the baby, your father - the bath water. If you wanted to do that, it would include your grandmother that gave your mom money to throw at your dad. Forget about what's going on around you, and focus on your own life.

If you want to give up on dating, that's your call. Dating is like working, you only get experience by being in the game, and that's how you develop dating skills. By not dating for years, you can end up being immature in that regard and that's not attractive. Not being confident is unattractive. Is your therapist guiding you at all? Is there any real help coming from this person, though I'm not putting your life working out on him.
 flaneur001
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 296
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/7/2018 3:31:32 PM
Hi Aqua,

I haven't read all the threads, I'm not sure if others have raised some of the following observations:

It seems from your descriptions, that you have embodied the impacts of 'intergenerational trauma'. Depending on the length of time these disruptions occured in your life, your age at the time and the nature of your attachments with your primary care giver, you could be 'stuck'. In your case, it appears that academically you were able to achieve your goals, but when it comes to affect regulation, interpersonal communication, the ability to mentalize you are developmentally arrested. This is changeable...... if you are willing to put in the work. You might want to consider looking into Schema Therapy ( J. Young)(core beliefs work) and DBT (M. Linehan) (life skills).

If you are going a lot of aerobic workouts, then I would slow that down. You're already dysregulated and the aerobic workouts only hightens the 'flight' (cortisol) response...which you don't need. (I'm assuming your sleep has suffered greatly). You should consider some mindfulness based practices, to help you physiological get grounded but also to help you detach from toxic feelings.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 297
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/8/2018 3:26:00 AM
Aqua I asked you about anger because I can read it in so many of your posts since he came back. Would I be right if I said his presence eats at you constantly during the day?


There should be small signs that indicate real change, and I haven't seen them.

And you're not likely too? How many times over how many years has he failed at rehab and it will never change. He'll probably die first.

236
I've had discussions with my mom the last few days, about what she perceives to be my fear. I'd say she is probably right. I can't help to look at the past, and that has made me fearful of the future.

Crap you got me doing research again. I think you're still looking at the past when it comes to him when instead you should be dealing with the present only. Remember when Bailey passed I told you those feelings and emotions wouldn't recede until you accepted his death. Guess what, you have to accept the fact the hated one is going to be around temporarily until you make changes. Maybe you have to be fucked in the head like me to do it but you can at least try. How he fucked up your life is meaningless now even though it enrages you. He is still the same drunken fool you've dealt with all your life except this time he's in your face. So what? He's a nonperson to be ignored completely and that's all you can do as far as dealing with him. It's the situation you need to change and being pissed off at him, your mom or me isn't going to help.


I look at this whole situation through what my books/classes have taught me.

Did you look up conscience? Maybe you should. I've never read anything about it and it appears I know more about it than you since you didn't even take it into consideration when talking about your mom. Have you ever tried to override your conscience? It can be done but the mental conflict it creates can become unmanageable for a period of time or forever.


The issue is her "happily ever after" fantasy gets her every time.

Actually I think it's your fantasy about what she might be thinking? Have you even asked her why she took him back? After all these years she sure as fuck isn't expecting "happily ever after" and knows she will never find it. Until you know her motivations for what she did there is no reason for you to be this critical. Your talking about the woman who spent her entire life raising you and your brother despite the fuckstick she married. Can't you even imagine the emotional upheaval she went through her entire life trying to raise you two while dealing with a drunk who contributed very little. How many nights do you think she cried herself to sleep because her life was so fucked up by him.

85
He and I did have sort of a disagreement while there. For some reason I told him about those tacos I had, and that I ate them next to Bailey. He laughed, and said he didn't want to hear that.

Aqua this quote is from five months ago and interpret it only one way. He did not want to hear your problems at the time when you most needed it. Who is listening your mom's problem's? No one. She has no one to confide in and keeps everything to herself.



I don't know if she talks to my grandma or other family members at all.

Do you need me to draw you a picture? Here is a woman who devoted her life to you and your brother and the best you can do is dump on her because she had to follow her conscience. She had to choose right from wrong but Had a bit of a dilemma. She had two rights to choose from, take him back or please you. I'll ask again did you pressure her into saying she wouldn't take him back just to please you? What she did is choose the option that would create the least mental conflict inside. How the fuck could you expect her to do otherwise. If you knew her motivations and it sure as fuck isn't "happily ever after" you might get insight from her that might help you to convince her to be rid of his sorry ass. Your mother has dealt with enough shit in her life that she needs you to blame her for something she had no control over. Yes her conscience. Except for a traumatic event there's only one type of person I can think of who can override their conscience completely. Someone suicidal.

"Can you look at it from her point of view alone without involving your emotions and opinions?"

You can't find this in any book and your to angry to accomplish this. It's simple. Try to imagine all the bullshit she's gone through in her life and what she might be thinking now that her life is in turmoil. She's pissed off everyone around her apparently and the only person she has to talk with appears to be you. And what do you do, you argue with her. Get over this fucking "it's her fault" bullshit. She had no fucking choice but do what she did and you either find out the reason why she did or leave her the fuck alone. You don't need a restraining order to keep him away, I'm sure he knows to keep his distance.


Due to all this, I might just add my mom's name too.

Then what? I did a shitty job of explaining "alone," and I'm not sure if this post makes any sense but I do know one thing. Abandon your mom and you will have no one to confide in that will actually listen. Think you can do that for the rest of your life.


I've only really messed with online dating, since I don't go out much.

When you say "don't go out much" does that mean most of your adult life? Well don't bother reading the forums because it's unlikely you'll find any help here. The whole paragraph this quote was taken from reads to me, "fear of failure." Same as your work situation though you've dealt with this one by accepting you will be single forever. Funny how you're able to accept somethings.

Don't think the f-words indicate anger. If I was angry you'd know it without a doubt. The word fuck is the most emphatic adverb and adjective in the world and for whatever reason it made it easier to write. Hopefully this makes sense to you, again I can't tell.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 298
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/8/2018 12:54:55 PM
[on't throw the baby out with the bath water, your mom - the baby, your father - the bath water. If you wanted to do that, it would include your grandmother that gave your mom money to throw at your dad. Forget about what's going on around you, and focus on your own life.]

Baby out with the bath water, huh? I don't think I have ever heard that one. As you describe it though, it makes sense. Why should I ditch my mom because of him? Although I seem to believe, and I even think she is starting to understand that she is somewhat responsible for all this(the happily ever after thing I mentioned). I'm not sure about my Grandma either. She's on my side in all of this. She despises my "father", as I obviously do. She can't understand my mom, and dare I say is upset with her for falling for this again. As I mentioned in a previous post, I can only imagine what my grandfather thinks. If he were still here he may have killed the guy already, or slapped my mom upside the head wondering what was wrong with her.

I agree with you, as far as focusing on my own life. As I mentioned previously, I think this is finally what I need to get me moving. I'm really pissed off she fell for it again, and I want out ASAP. I can't even consider going back to school now, since he's back. I'll just end up doing something that I don't enjoy, but will eventually get out from where I am at right now; get my restraining order, etc. How can I focus on my life though, when I am asked to "help" him. All my mom and I have ever had to do is clean up his mess. That's what we are doing now, and that's what we have always done. I have no interest in helping him, but end up in hot water when I tell him I will help him "later", because I am doing something for myself. How is that fair?

[If you want to give up on dating, that's your call. Dating is like working, you only get experience by being in the game, and that's how you develop dating skills. By not dating for years, you can end up being immature in that regard and that's not attractive. Not being confident is unattractive. Is your therapist guiding you at all? Is there any real help coming from this person, though I'm not putting your life working out on him.]

Actually, my main concern/focus right now is the job/condo/school thing. He is helping me with that. Having never consistently dated anyone, I can't say I am missing something I have never had. You can figure out the rest. Improving my current situation will facilitate everything, and that's what we are working on. When(hopefully) things improve for me, other options might open; dating being one of them. However, at that time my "window of opportunity" will probably be shut and locked. The ship will not have sailed, it will have sank at the dock(aka: not ever "sailing"). Explain to me what you mean by "immature" in that regard. It's a little fuzzy, so maybe some more explanation is needed. As for lack of confidence, I think that is probably true when it comes to dating. Such a lack of any experience whatsoever is not going to look good. Who would ever understand that, or the reasons behind it? So, I guess I am not confident when it comes to dating. Why would I be? It's not like I've been successful. It all starts with improving my current situation. Whether that means hitting the "reset" button and starting over, because what I am doing now isn't going according to plan, etc. At that point I might be too old for anything significant, or just date someone for the purpose of getting laid and being able to say I am in a relationship isn't worth it. Lack of any sort of success, yes I never really tried, may just turn me off of it all.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 299
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/8/2018 1:19:55 PM
[It seems from your descriptions, that you have embodied the impacts of 'intergenerational trauma'. Depending on the length of time these disruptions occured in your life, your age at the time and the nature of your attachments with your primary care giver, you could be 'stuck'. In your case, it appears that academically you were able to achieve your goals, but when it comes to affect regulation, interpersonal communication, the ability to mentalize you are developmentally arrested. This is changeable...... if you are willing to put in the work. You might want to consider looking into Schema Therapy ( J. Young)(core beliefs work) and DBT (M. Linehan) (life skills).]


Welcome to the party newcomer!

You sound like you're in the behavioral health/psych field. That's what I studied too, so I have a good idea of what you're talking about. I can't say I am familiar with "intergenerational trauma", so maybe you could explain the concept to me a little bit. My previous therapist always said that all of my issues started before I was even two years old; and I was being ripped from my mom's arms and being shoved in a CAT scan machine, so they could see how big my brain tumor was. I'd like to think the attachment was healthy, because I was sad when Mom left and happy when she came back, and was independent/not afraid to do things on my own. The thing I mentioned above though; from what I learned(and it sounds like you too), that is the root of everything. As for being stuck, I agree. I'm sure you know of Erikson and his stages. I've always felt I was stuck in "intimacy vs isolation", or my adolescent years. I lost a good chunk of my hearing in those years, was a pretty big kid because of medication that kept me from losing it all, etc. I had friends in high school, but they were one year older then me. Once they were old enough to enter this area of the school for upper-clansmen, they kinda forgot about me. I obviously never dated in high school, no dances, prom, etc. I was just there. Schema therapy? Never heard of it. I know what a schema is(blueprint for behavior), but didn't know there was a specific therapy. What I know it as it CBT(cognitive behavioral therapy). I know I have faulty ideas about things, but they are hard to change. Life has been erratic for me,(an understatement), and that's part of why I have certain ideas about something or another. How would DBT work for me? I'm not exactly dealing with borderline personality disorder....yet

[If you are going a lot of aerobic workouts, then I would slow that down. You're already dysregulated and the aerobic workouts only hightens the 'flight' (cortisol) response. ]

Believe it or not, I don't do much cardio. I get my cardio from walking my dog in the park or on the golf course/walking while playing golf. When I am in the gym I stick to the weights really. Is there a problem with this? Should I break it up more? Sleep actually hasn't suffered much. I can sleep pretty well. Although there are days when I wake up tired/ or get tired shortly after waking up, I can't say that has been much of a problem. Meditation would probably be a good idea though.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 300
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/8/2018 1:20:19 PM
Rise, I will respond to you later today
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