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 calliopedreams
Joined: 11/21/2017
Msg: 301
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)Page 13 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
Enmeshed with mother. Hates father. Can't make it without mother. Classic Oedipus complex.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 302
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/8/2018 5:03:27 PM
You mean you could actually understand what I wrote? I know I repeated myself but couldn't help it and the f-word actually made it easier to write. I'll leave it out most of the time because it didn't help any with my repeating myself.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 303
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/10/2018 3:06:37 AM
If your mother is being an enabler, you certainly don't have to participate. Even though your dad isn't nice, for your mom, this was probably the love of her life, the man she had children with, and many women feel bonded by that, regardless of what kind of man he is. Also, maybe at this time in her life, she knows she won't date anymore, and is clinging to him for male companionship. Keep in mind, if your mother us ruining her life, it's her life; she's an adult. You know how you shut her down when she brings up subjects like dating, you don't want to hear her helpful words. She's doing the same thing, so why punish her. You're supposed to support her in good times and bad. She just wants to take her husband back, into her own home.

Having confidence does not require past successes. Confidence is being confident regardless of successes.

Have you ever lived on your own? That's part of maturity to be able to handle business that seeps into handing a relationship. If you haven't matured that way, you bring less to the table. You don't exhibit signs of independence and responsibility. You're responsible, or should be, for your s/o (significant other). How can you be when you're not handing your own life? Dating maturity also means you've leaned how to be a good partner, to read your partner, learning to be caring and meet your partner's needs, and know how to get your needs met. Maturity to know how to compromise and problem solve in a relationship. Maturity to be a leader, to be knowledgeable about life at least based on your years on this earth. That means not looking awkward when trying to accomplish anything you've never done before, due to lack of experience in life with what should be simple things, and knowing how to get them done. Being clueless is not attractive. Being mature can mean being more worldly, knowing about food, traveling, making reservations for things, buying a car, fixing things, savvy about a lot of topics, handing emergencies, things that basically take place in every day living outside the home. Women like men they can look up to. You're behind the 8 ball when it comes to reading women.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 304
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/10/2018 11:06:29 AM
[Enmeshed with mother. Hates father. Can't make it without mother. Classic Oedipus complex.]


Welcome to the party!

You do know that I understand what you are talking about, right? I have to tell you that I don't agree at all. You're new here, so I will catch you up. I despise my father because he is a drunk, who thinks everything is good and well after the numerous times he's been to rehab. Do you think you could stand someone that has made your life hell for several years? What about someone that has threatened to kill you 5 times. What about someone that has almost lead you to kill yourself by swallowing all your epilepsy medication because you saw no way out? I started this thread because my dog of almost 15 years passed away, and I was heartbroken(as the title says). He would not let my "dad" within six inches of me. If he tried to shake my hand, Bailey was up in his face in the blink of an eye. Bailey was an extremely smart dog. He knew evil, and he remembered that my "dad" and I got into it on the front lawn. Bailey happened to be there, and I have never seen him angrier. His teeth came full out of his mouth, he scratched the guy on his face hard enough to draw blood. etc. Now that Bailey isn't here, it's not so easy to deal with all of this. Yes, I have another dog. However, there is only one Bailey. The final straw for me was the way he behaved on the day Bailey died. On the worst day of my life(to this point), he was a complete**** It was still all about him, rather then help my mom and I, since we were Bailey's primary caregivers/slaves. I was #1, and she was a close second. So, hopefully you can understand why I hate the guy. I've lost friends because of him, and a low-grade control freak as a result of being an adult child of an alcoholic(look it up), etc. Why shouldn't I despise the guy, and say with complete certainty that if I could exchange him for Bailey I would do it in a heartbeat.

Now, about being enmeshed and not being able to make it without my mom, I also don't agree. I have lived on my own before, and had no problem doing so. I obviously survived. If you also think my plan is not to get the hell out of here for good, you're wrong. I live by a large park, that is surrounded by a condo village. They are older buildings, but very nice inside and very reasonably priced. Bailey's favorite place in the entire world was the park. He loved walking in the park. I promised him we would live in one of the condos one day. Unfortunately, I will never be able to keep that promise, at least not while he was living. That will be the hardest part of moving there. Although he was cremated, and I will be taking him with me. It's not the same though. If I could get out of here tomorrow, I would have left 6 months ago. Hell, I am planning on getting a restraining order when I get out of here, with my "dad's" name on it. Due to the fact that my mom continues to buy his crap, and the "happily ever after" fantasy strikes again, her name might be on it too. So, oedipus really doesn't hold up well here.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 305
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/10/2018 11:57:21 AM
[If your mother is being an enabler, you certainly don't have to participate. Even though your dad isn't nice, for your mom, this was probably the love of her life, the man she had children with, and many women feel bonded by that}

Yes, she is definetley an enabler. She continuously buys his lies that he'll get a job, etc, etc. Through all this, he's cost my mon $25,000. The whole point was for him to come home temporarily, get a job, work, and give my mom his paycheck. He owes her massively. Due to all of this, my mom has drained her retirement. She'll be working until the day she dies thanks to him. I don't think it has anything to do with him being the father of her children, not dating, etc. She's been "alone" for a long time, so I don't think that really matters. There was once this guy in the park named Dennis. We used to see him a lot when walking Bailey. He even bumped into her shopping a few times. He works at NASA, seems like a nice guy, etc. I told my mom numerous times that she really missed the boat on Dennis because you're wasting your time with him/"dad". Part of the problem is her "happily ever after" fantasy. It's not going to happen. I do support her, but I am starting to draw the line. She never learns, and in this case all the other cases, "happily ever after" strikes again. The whole point of him coming back here was to work, and he's not doing shit. I told my mom he would never work again. I stand by that. Truthfully, I know(shame she would never believe me because I tried) that the plan was for him to come back and work. However, that was never HIS plan.

Now, you mentioned supporting her. Emotionally, I offer plenty of that. However, some new things have developed. Within the last three days I have applied for jobs that would finally give me the chance to use that education, professional license, etc. They all called within a day to schedule interviews. Now, let's assume I get one of them because I obviously am qualified due to them calling so fast. Let's say I get one of them that pays well. In that case, I will be bringing in the money that he "promised" he would. I even told her before that I would end up getting a job before he does, which looks like that could very well be the case. If I am bringing in money, along with her, I will not live here and support him. I already told her this, as I did my brother and other family members. I will move to my grandma's if needed, and help her out. He's not fulfilling his "promise", as he swore he would. Things would finally start to work out for me. I can start to repair my credit rating, when condo-time rolls around, etc. She will have to make a choice. She's free to pick whoever she wants. However, it's him and nothing, or me and what I bring in, and maybe some of that insurance money. The strange thing is, her picking me over hijm won't just be for me. She wants him out of here too. So, it would be for her too. Do I want to make her chose? Probably not, but I'm not supporting him after everything he has done.

[ If your mother is being an enabler, you certainly don't have to participate. Even though your dad isn't nice, for your mom, this was probably the love of her life, the man she had children with, and many women feel bonded by that, regardless of what kind of man he is. Also, maybe at this time in her life, she knows she won't date anymore, and is clinging to him for male companionship. Keep in mind, if your mother us ruining her life, it's her life; she's an adult. You know how you shut her down when she brings up subjects like dating, you don't want to hear her helpful words. She's doing the same thing, so why punish her. You're supposed to support her in good times and bad. She just wants to take her husband back, into her own home.

Having confidence does not require past successes. Confidence is being confident regardless of successes.

Have you ever lived on your own? That's part of maturity to be able to handle business that seeps into handing a relationship. If you haven't matured that way, you bring less to the table. You don't exhibit signs of independence and responsibility. You're responsible, or should be, for your s/o (significant other). How can you be when you're not handing your own life? Dating maturity also means you've leaned how to be a good partner, to read your partner, ]

Yes I have, but briefly. Obviously I survived, so I am itching to do it ASAP. What you say makes a lot of sense. The thing is, by the time I get on my feet and make it to Concorde Square Village(the condo village), and finally start to enjoy life because I have the resources to do so, I may not even want to bother with dating. Yes, I most likely will be missing out on the sex, holding hands, and all that. On the flip side, I can fly down to Miami with a friend and take in a Dolphins game whenever I want. Never have to suffer through a Browns game(I live in Cleveland) to make my s/o happy, splurge on this, that, or the other, etc. If you ask me, relationships/marriages are a serious risk these days. That's my worry for my brother. His wife seems like a good person, who comes from a good family. Yet, there is always that risk. I will finally be moving ahead. Do I want to risk what I may have? Probably not. Even if I did, I'd probably be too hold to get anything worthwhile.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 306
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/10/2018 1:18:41 PM
Hi Rise,

[Would I be right if I said his presence eats at you constantly during the day?]

You'd be absolutely right. I'm pissed at my Mom for falling for his crap once again. Hate his guts for playing my mom once again, and proving to me that he really is a child in a man't body. Yes, I am angry at myself for believing my mother, and not preparing for what I knew was coming. It's really not a bad thing though. I'm sure this might be the case for a lot of people, but I work best when I am angry. I'm motivated enough to really get everything done this time. As I mentioned in another post of mine, I have multiple job opportunities. If I get one of them, I will be bringing in the money(with my mom). At that point, the ball will be in my court. She will have to chose between me and what I m bringing in, plus the insurance money I am getting; or him and nothing. So, you either make your house payment with me, or you don't and get foreclosed upon with him. I can rebuild that credit rating, etc. I don't have a problem helping out my mom. I won't do it with him here though.

[And you're not likely too? How many times over how many years has he failed at rehab and it will never change. He'll probably die first. ]

I agree with you, he probably will die first. Hell, I think that's what I am hoping for. Sounds cruel for sure, but I have had enough. The problem is my mom and her "happily ever after" fantasy. She keeps hoping he will be normal, when he will NEVER be normal. He's what I call a poor man's Donald Trump. He lies to make himself look good, is a child in a man's overweight body, etc. If my mom would come back to reality, as I and the rest of my family are screaming at her are telling her to do, this would not happen continuously.

[Crap you got me doing research again. I think you're still looking at the past when it comes to him when instead you should be dealing with the present only. Remember when Bailey passed I told you those feelings and emotions wouldn't recede until you accepted his death]

Don't do too much research, it's blows your mind after a while. Believe it not, I am dealing with the present. I'm working like a ****ing madman to get out of here. I applied for three jobs this week, and wouldn't you know it: they all called the very next day. So, those are options. I may not get out of here as quick as I would like, but I can give my mom the choice as I mentioned above. We'll see what she wants to do. In contrast to that, I do think I have accepted Baiely's passing and at the same time haven't. I still think about him a lot, might look at the picture on my wall of the two of us and cry, as God why he had to take him now, etc. Daisy is a great dog, but she is no Bailey. There will never be another Bailey. Bailey will always be the "bar", when it comes to other dogs. I could use him right now. As for the child I have to call a "dad", my feelings will never change. The last straw was the way he acted the day Bailey passed. On the worst day of my life, he was a total**** Once I get out of here, I am headed straight to the county courthouse to get a restraining order. I might even change my last name. It won't matter to him, but I want him out of my life for good.

[Did you look up conscience?]

As I mentioned to you before, the "conscience" is a part of your personality. Have I ever tried to override it? I can't say I have off the top of my head. Let's say your right. Let's say throwing him out would weight heavy on her conscience. Well, then REASON would have to kick in. What good reason does she have to keep him around, when he is doing absolutely nothing for her/his entire family. My brother wants nothing to do with him. You know how I feel. According to what she has told me, I don't think my mom wants to deal with him anymore. So, if that is the case; I would really have to ask myself a question I already know the answer to: how ****ed up has he made her too? In this case, reality needs to override the conscience. Her conscience is presumably the cause for all this.

[Actually I think it's your fantasy about what she might be thinking? Have you even asked her why she took him back? After all these years she sure as **** isn't expecting "happily ever after" and knows she will never find it]

Actually, I mentioned it was all about the money. This whole thing has cost her a lot of money. She had to drain her retirement money as a result, so she will be working until the day she dies. Since he;s not doing shit, and there;s a good possibility I'm bringing in the money. As I mentioned above, she will have a choice to make. I'm not supporting him. I told her the "happily ever after" fantasy ruined things again, and she agreed. People change. and he has. Not for the better either, as he would like her to believe.

[Do you need me to draw you a picture? Here is a woman who devoted her life to you and your brother and the best you can do is dump on her because she had to follow her conscience. She had to choose right from wrong but Had a bit of a dilemma. She had two rights to choose from, take him back or please you. I'll ask again did you pressure her into saying she wouldn't take him back just to please yo]

Again, it was all about the money. He's not bringing it in, as he "promised" he would. It might just be decision time after that. I actually just got off the phone with her, and she clearly stated he washed her hands of him. Apparently he "got a job" yesterday, but today he's getting "another job". Translation: he's got nothing. He'll never work again. He's 61, people don't want to hire someone as old as he is. They would be more inclined to hire someone like me: much younger(don't look my age), in better shape(he's really out of shape/looks unhealthy), etc. My mom asked for this again. Now I just might be the money source. I'm not putting up with this any longer. Bailey would tell me to do the same thing. It's like a dream I had once. My grandfather told me to "get out now, it's not going to change".

[Then what? I did a shitty job of explaining "alone," and I'm not sure if this post makes any sense but I do know one thing. Abandon your mom and you will have no one to confide in that will actually listen. Think you can do that for the rest of your life.]

Never thought of it this way. I think you can understand why I might just add her to that restraining order. She continuously buys his lies/shit. As soon as I start to recover from him, she opens the door once again. So, I blame her just as much as I do him. She never learns. I don't know if I could ever cut her off completely, but I don't think you'd blame me if I did. As my therapist said: this is your life, you need to make yourself happy. **** everyone else, because they don't care/

[When you say "don't go out much" does that mean most of your adult life? Well don't bother reading the forums because it's unlikely you'll find any help here. The whole paragraph this quote was taken from reads to me, "fear of failure." Same as your work situation though you've dealt with this one by accepting you will be single forever. Funny how you're able to accept somethings.]

Yes, I have FOF(heard it on tv once). I used to go out with a friend and his friends/cousin a lot a few years ago. I was really only the designated driver though, and he turned out to be not much of a friend. We did a lot of stuff when we first started hanging out, but he's married now. If you ask me, everyone else has their friends and they don't need anymore. I have guys at the gym I get along with well, but am always afraid to do stuff/ask them if they want to hang out. I guess I have accepted the fact that I'll be single forever. Once I get things going in the right direction, I may not even want to take the risk of getting involved with anyone.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 307
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/10/2018 1:48:18 PM
I get why you're upset with your mom. I would be too, but you shouldn't toss her to the side for her poor choices. If anything, you should show your dad that you are there for her, to try and keep him in check. Also, if your mom ever does kick him to the curb, it would be easier for her knowing you're still there for her.

I'm not for you getting the condo too quickly. You need to make sure your job is pretty secure, that you're happy there and they're happy with you. Then once you move and have bigger bills, it will be harder to save for things, so do as much saving while you're still at home.

You don't have inexpensive houses? With a condo, you pay a mortgage and a monthly maintenance fee. That maintenance fee will cut into whatever profit you could make on the condo.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 308
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/12/2018 5:53:28 AM
305
If your mother is being an enabler

I like the way you worded that Newyorker. When most people use it they're viewing the person as someone evil who is doing nothing but wrong when in fact the enabler doesn't know what to do. That crap is all over the forums. Her letting him move back in doesn't make her an enabler. She followed her conscience just like we all have to do. We have no choice but to follow it. Ever consider the enabler might be a victim instead?

305
You're supposed to support her in good times and bad.

307
Now, you mentioned supporting her. Emotionally, I offer plenty of that

You are absolutely, completely, totally fucking pissed at her yet you say you're offering her emotional support. How are you managing to do that through this anger. If I were offering her support I would asking her about the reasons she took him back.


I told her the "happily ever after" fantasy ruined things again, and she agreed.

How did that go did you do all the talking or did she actually participate. It wouldn't be easy talking with someone whose angry since angry people talk angry. By the way she agreed to not take him in and that kind of backfired. Ever consider she agreed just to shut you up because she was tired of arguing.

I've spent about about 9 hours writing and rewriting this post and finally deleted it and wrote this because i can't right the rest until you answer this question. List the reasons she told you she took him in? Her reasons not the ones you told her and she agreed to.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 309
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/12/2018 6:42:37 AM
I wrote, "Would I be right if I said his presence eats at you constantly during the day?" your reply was.


You'd be absolutely right.

It appears to me we have gone back to the beginning of the thread where depression and anger were the constant emotions and now replaced by anger. Other than job hunting and tutoring are there any other times your not angry? If not you are ****ed up and it is clouding your thinking. I can't say how but it is happening in small ways. To me one is that you think you're offering her emotional support when your always angry at her and she knows it.


Don't do too much research, it's blows your mind after a while.

I have to my memory is not what it should be. I can't blow my mind it's already malfunctioning and has been doing it for a while. To make the previous post I looked at every post we both made. I have the time.


As I mentioned to you before, the "conscience" is a part of your personality.

Tell me, when Bailey passed what were you thinking and what was your conscience telling you. Now that you think back was it the write reality and write reasoning. Of course all you have to do is start reading your posts from the beginning to recapture those moments. Don't you think she has been going through emotional turmoil all her life? We both think you're prone to depression. What is she prone to? Taking him in? Could it have become a part of her personality? I need to know that answer about her reasons before I can continue.

Depending on your answer to that last question on the previous post you may have left me with a dilemma. How do I dissipate your anger long enough for you to think completely clearly? Your anger is so strong you are making some snap judgments which are wrong because you will assume things more. What you think becomes right just because you're thinking it. Probably a term for it. This took 6 hours to right and rewrite. Both posts are lot shorter than they started out as. That's 15 hours I devoted to this and it's all because I have the time because I am pretty much alone.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 310
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/12/2018 7:23:32 AM

I used to go out with a friend

When the topic of dating came up you said that you pretty much had accepted you would never find a relationship. That's I began to wonder how much time you would spend alone because of this. I asked you to calculate it but you never did. I would like you to do it. Calculate for the average week before Bailey passed that was normal. Count only the time you had social interactions with someone. An 8 hour workday does not mean eight hours. Same with the gym. You'll have to average everything probably. I would like to know the answer because I've never had anyone to compare my lifestyle too.

My lifestyle is extreme because I developed a phobia in 2009 that relates to being around groups of people. as a result I never go out, I've calculated the amount I spend alone and it's been consistent for a long time. When I told my psychiatrist about this and how long it had been going he said to me, "Mr. A I cant figure out how you haven't gone insane" Remember bipolar is involved in this equation, Here's the calculation for a given week.

1. 168 hours in a week
2. Sleep for to 5 hours a night, 133 hours awake.
3. On my days off (3) I spend 3 hours with my mom, At work about the same socializing. 3 hours a day drops it to 112 hours alone.

Do the calculation and I spend about 85% of my time alone. Aqua do you really want to abandon your mother. When mine dies I will be spending 100% of my time on 3 days off completely alone. When I retire I will spend the rest of my life alone. I've accepted it what else can I do.

I have no friends because they abandoned me when I first got sick, honestly who wants to hang around with the crazy guy who tried to kill himself. You have none and I believe you're either don't know how to make friends or scared to try because you're afraid you'll be rejected. I suggest you calculate your time alone so you know what to expect. Remember we both think you're prone to depression and too much time alone can kick start it.
I have no friends because they abandoned me when I first got sick, honestly who wants to hang around with the crazy guy who tried to kill himself. You have none and I believe you're either don't know how to make friends or scared to try because you're afraid you'll be rejected.

I suggest you calculate your time alone so you know what to expect. Remember we both think you're prone to depression and too much time alone can kick start it.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 311
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/13/2018 3:45:25 PM
[that you are there for her, to try and keep him in check. ]

Agreed completely! I think my Mom knows I will always be there for her, as my brother, his wife, and the rest of the family will. However, and this is just not the case for me; we are getting tired of her always buying his shit/always giving him another chance no matter what he does. I almost killed myself because of him. Would she forgive him for that one? I know my Grandma would never do that, and probably the rest of my family. Although I am not holding my breath; the fact that I have all these job interviews so soon seems to indicate to me(and to others) that things might finally be working out for me. If I end up getting one, or even both of these jobs if I could somehow swing it, I WILL NOT support him. I will not live there and help pay the bills if he is living there soctt-free, not doing a damn ting/making my life miserable. Also keep in mind that my mom doesn't want him there either. As I said, the whole point of letting him come back temporarily was for him to work, give my mom the money, and show us he really has changed. He has not even made an attempt. He doesn't go to AA meeting anymore, and he swore he would. I won't have a problem helping my mom out, while I repair my credit report and get ready for that condo. However, I won't even consider doing so if he is there.

Speaking of the condo: believe it or not, I'm actually fiscally responsible. I don't buy a thing unless I can pay for it. I pay cash for everything, no exceptions. Yes, when I can use my credit cards I most likely will, but unless I can pay for something, I go without. I wouldn't even think of getting that condo right now, no matter how much I want out. I could love the job, and they could love me. It could pay me well. However, I'm smart enough not to ask for more then I can chew so-to-speak. I've looked into how much the "association/maintenance" fee would be each month, plus the cost of a mortgage. It's not as much as you would think, but I would never move until on my feet
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 312
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/13/2018 4:08:50 PM
[Her letting him move back in doesn't make her an enabler. She followed her conscience]

I disagree; the reason she let him back in was because the "plan" was for him to get a job, make money, and start repaying my mom for all the money she lost. That was THE plan, but that wasn't his plan. I do believe her conscience told her never to let him back in. The money thing spoke louder, if you want to call it that. As I expected it, the money is gone from him. There is a good chance that the extra money will be coming from me very soon. Don't forget that insurance settlement. If the job(s) work out, and the insurance settlement comes in, the ball is in my court. She will have a choice: him or me. You said you never want him around again, and based on the fact that he still is doing the same shit, and "fireworks" have gone off between the two of them multiple times, she is "done" with him too. Let her put my money(work with me here) where her mouth is. It doesn't matter to me if he lives or dies. Cruel? Probably. Realistic? Definetley.

[You are absolutely, completely, totally ****ing pissed at her yet you say you're offering her emotional support. How are you managing to do that through this anger. If I were offering her support I would asking her about the reasons she took him back. ]

You're right I am pissed. Once I get out of here, I plan to get a restraining order with his name on it. Maybe even change my last name. I want no association with him. Oddly enough, I don't think he will care. Anyway, it's getting more and more likely her name might be on that restraining order too. I mentioned this in another post. As far as how I am able to lend support: I guess all I do is listen to her complain about him, and try to help her understand why she is like this/keeps doing the same things over again. To be honest, I am getting tired of it. It doesn't appear to be helping things. She's still dong the same shit.

When I mentioned "happily ever after" strikes again, she actually agreed. We were walking Daisy when I mentioned this. She holds on the false hope, when there is no hope. Yes, there is always hope; but not in this situation. According to the trans-theoretical stages of change, he has no idea that problem is really him. When people are at that stage/won't accept responsibility, thee will never be change. That's where I see this. In the eyes of the child(im), everything is everyone else's fault. Additionally, everyone else has to clean up his mess. Why is it our responsibility. He has absolutely no idea how the simplest computer functions work, etc. Why is it my responsibility to do all this shit for him, when all he does is make me miserable? I almost had a seizure in church last night, because I am under so much stress. Things are happening for me, so it's not that. It's his presence, and nothing more.

As I said: the only reason he was let back in(only been 1.5 months) was to work, make money, etc. That was the plan. However, that wasn't his plan. I knew this would happen, but my mom insists on holding onto the false hope and empty promises.


I'll respond to your other posts later Rise
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 313
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/13/2018 7:42:36 PM
Let me know when you've made the last post and then I'll respond. You appear less angry in those two posts. Good luck with the job interviews
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 314
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/14/2018 12:51:47 AM
You think the choice for your mom is either you or your father. You're not interchangeable. It's like asking her to choose between food and shelter. You and your father serve different purposes. And lets not forget, you don't belong living with your mother anyway. Why would she care if you left? She's probably praying you leave and get on with your life. She's getting on with hers.

She really made a bad investment in your father, throwing good money after bad, by continuing to extend money to him. It reminds me of women that get scammed on dating sites, and send the guy money. Then he makes more excuses to need more money, so the woman feels she's already invested in him, and sends more money.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 315
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/14/2018 5:40:41 PM
Aqua are you angry all the time except when your mind is occupied with other things like job hunting, tutoring, etc. How about when you walk Daisy?
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 316
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/17/2018 12:07:09 PM
Hey Rise, sorry for the delay
[hen the topic of dating came up you said that you pretty much had accepted you would never find a relationship. That's I began to wonder how much time you would spend alone because of this]

Calculating it would just be a waste of time. With the exception of the gym, getting my hair cut every two weeks(I'm friends with all my stylists), and the by-chance interaction, I am pretty much always alone. Although they say "you're never alone, when you're with Christ". I know Bailey is always watching over me too. Without slapping a number on it, we can just say 75% of the week is spent alone. Although there is family and Daisy. I sleep a normal 6-8, so you have to subtract those. I guess most of my week is spent alone. As I am thinking of this now, I am thinking about another friend always asking me to go out with him, his girlfriend, and another girl. I would always shut it down. How I did it, I don't know. It's not even that I wasn't interested. It's most likely because i didn't want to risk embarrassment, participate in what I thought would be a waste of time, etc. As I have stated multiple times: no girl would ever chose me over another guy. Obviously I have major self-esteem issues. In contrast to that, I consider myself pretty smart, and am very proud of the fact that I lost all the weight from the medication the hard way, and built it into muscle. So, I guess my "dating self-esteem" is pretty low, or doesn't even exist. As far as cutting her out of my life is concerned: I think I said "happily ever after" is responsible for all this. I just told her that I hope she gets her "happily ever after", because my "happily ever after" might mean cutting her out of my life forever. In my eyes, her own stupidity is the reason for all this, and it is subjecting me to this hell once again. I'm not going to forget it. His name will be on that restraining order, and hers just might be too. I understand what you mean about having no friends, and being alone once your mom days. As a result of her constantly believing his shit, I have lost friends. I have had to escort her when she went to the mall, so the drunk doesn't give her any shit when she gets home. All while my friends are out doing stuff, which they asked me to do as well. That was a mistake. Although some of those guys were never really friends, it's still kind of what happened.

[I have no friends because they abandoned me when I first got sick, honestly who wants to hang around with the crazy guy who tried to kill himself.]

Those aren't friends. Real friends stick by you, no matter what. I continued to write to that same friend that asked me to go out with him and two girls when he went to prison for a year. He has kind of a long history when he was younger, but he has turned things around. I've never stopped being his pal. We may not hang out as much because he moved a bit, but we still talk. He's not very good at writing speeches, and I happen to be. He's got a best man speech in a few months, and I am helping him write it. He doesn't seem to care I have hearing loss either. If those guys were really friends, they wouldn't have run when you started developing issues. You deserve better.

[I believe you're either don't know how to make friends or scared to try because you're afraid you'll be rejected]

I agree, and it's scared. No doubt! I talk to plenty of guys at the gym. We've exchanged numbers to hang out, I am going to teach one of them how to play golf, etc. Yet, I never follow up. I guess part of the problem is that if something worked out for me, it would blow all my pre-conceived ideas/thoughts about myself to hell. I don't know if I could handle that. That's the same with dating. My old therapist would always say that I think I am unloveable or not deserving of someone's love. I guess all of this is also to avoid embarrassment. At least that is the case with dating. There's no need to risk any further damage to my already-fragile self-esteem by taking a chance. Dating these days is a woman's game anyway.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 317
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/17/2018 12:30:53 PM
[You and your father serve different purposes. And lets not forget, you don't belong living with your mother anyway. Why would she care if you left? She's probably praying you leave and get on with your life. She's getting on with hers.]

Maybe, but what's his purpose? The whole purpose of him coming home is to work ,and give my mom the money. Yet, he's at home sleeping(I am on laptop at library). He sleeps more than my newborn niece. It isn't depression either. If anyone should be depressed, it should be me. My mom fell for it again, because all he wanted to do is come back home. The plan may have been for him to work, but that wasn't HIS plan. What 61 y.o. man sleeps the majority of the day, or just sits at the kitchen table pretending to read something? My mom is so sure he will get a job, but it won't happen. He has nobody to blame but himself. Also, there's that issue of the domestic violence change on his record. He came after my mom a few years ago, and got physical with her. My mom called the police, as he should have. You can figure out the rest. Yet, he blames her for calling the police. So, don't call the police and risk getting really hut, or call the police so you can feel safe. Do you know how stupid that is? Also, he asked my mom to fax something for him the other day. Do you know how many spelling mistakes were on there? A 3 y.o. wouldn't pull that shit. Why is it our job to take care of him/clean up his mess.

[serve different purposes]

what purpose is he serving? He isn't doing a damn thing. If you ask me, that will be the situation for a very long time. As far as making her choose, that's exactly what I plan to do. He does the same thing. When he was working, he'd blackmail her. You either let me stay, or I take my paycheck and you struggle. Tell me how nice of a person he is because he pulls that shit? Two can play that game. After everything he has done, and the hell he has and continues to put me through just by being in my field of vision, I will not even entertain the idea of supporting him. I said I would move to my grandma's, and that be it. I've got chances lined up, and the insurance money coming in. That's just the way it has to be. The funny thing is, that's what she wants too. She has told me herself she is sick of seeing him. Whether or not that is true is obviously up for debate..

[
She really made a bad investment in your father, throwing good money after bad, by continuing to extend money to him.]

Would you believe me if I told you she had to borrow money from my grandma to help pay for his past rehabs, that didn't fix the problem? The whole situation is really screwed up. If you ask me, she is just as big a part of the problem as he is. He's been a total ass certain times in the last week. I can't even lay claim to being a part of the problem. The whole thing is just insance.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 318
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/19/2018 6:58:43 AM
Aqua I wanted to go back to post 306 because I never replied to it completely. From the three quotes below I realised you are right it's not her conscience so I'm going to throw this at you. Keep in mind I know little about psychology.


I would really have to ask myself a question I already know the answer to: how ****ed up has he made her too?In this case, reality needs to override the conscience. Her conscience is presumably the cause for all this.

To begin with he didn't make her fucked up, her reality already existed before he came along. As for reality overriding conscience it's not possible because her conscience is based on her reality..


If my mom would come back to reality, as I and the rest of my family are screaming at her are telling her to do, this would not happen continuously.

Whose reality does she need to come back to? Your's, you brothers, grandma's? Everyone has their own reality and it only becomes unrealistic when viewed by someone else. Her reality is the right one for her though she had no control over it happening.


I never mentioned throwing him out, I was talking about her taking him in so I'm that is what I'm Let's say your right. Let's say throwing him out would weight heavy on her conscience. Well, then REASON would have to kick in. What good reason does she have to keep him around,

I never mentioned throwing him out, I was talking about her taking him in and that's the premise this is based on. Well I'm saying i'm not right about it being her conscience so what else could be the cause of her "happily ever after" fantasy. If I understand correctly it's been life long so it developed even before she met him. Isn't conscience, reasoning and reality all part of a person's personality? Wouldn't her "happily ever after" fantasy be ingrained in her personality because it affects her reality, reasoning and conscience?

I probably didn't explain this very well and of course you'll correct me. How much of a person's personality develop's by the time they start grade 1. I believe you mothers ingrained in her when she was young child. I'm 59 and your mother is about the same age I'm guessing. When we were kids society was permeated with "happily ever after" and it was the only thing we encountered in the media as small children. I could give you examples but first the premises above have to be write. I'm looking at it this way because I lived that 'happily ever after" up until I was about 10 and discovered it wasn't true. Maybe it's so deeply ingrained in her that it's lasted forever.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 319
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/19/2018 12:47:36 PM
So you're imitating your father with giving your mom a threat, him or you? You're also not working like him. And you also don't belong there. Do you see a similarity to your father? I know you'll say - hell no. Your mom's personal life isn't your business. Rise is right about your mom always being this way.

Again, you're using your mom and dad as a distraction for what you need to do. You said you applied for jobs, but that was quite some time ago. Forget about what's going on between your mom and dad. Concentrate on yourself. You're not part of their problem, but part of your own problems. You need a job to be independent, and have more options in life. Then when it comes to dating, no one wants to date an older guy not working and living with their mom. It looks to me like you're waiting for insurance money to live on, and as an excuse not to get a job. This lapse in working will work against you. Get a job and other things will fall into place.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 320
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/19/2018 1:40:22 PM
Low self-esteem I understand since I used to be like that. I'm just going to ask this question. Do you have any idea why you have low self esteem when it comes to socialising and none during job interviews?
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 321
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/19/2018 1:44:43 PM
^^^^ It's embarrassing to say you're unemployed and living with your mother. I should add in, he should be feeling that way about job interviews too. Maybe he doesn't realize employers look at the bigger picture, which includes work history/ethic, and if they have living situations that create drive, like responsibilities, having a home, children, etc. An employer won't tell you that you lost a job, because you show lack of incentive in life. They simply won't hire you.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 322
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/19/2018 1:52:02 PM
Yes it is. He's living with his mother because he lost his job. As for the insurance money he wasn't expecting a hell of a lot but was hoping it would be enough for the tattoo he wants to get to memorialise Bailey. Since last January it's been all down hill for Aqua.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 323
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/19/2018 1:59:10 PM
People lose jobs all the time and don't move in with their mothers. It comes down to ambition. Believe me, he's getting more than what it will cost for a tat. I lived on my own while collecting unemployment. I never moved back home.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 324
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/23/2018 8:23:14 PM
Want to hear something funny Rise? He's drinking again. I had a job interview today, and my mom and I kept it quiet from him. He has no business knowing my business. Anyway, I came home and was sitting in my room getting my snazzy close off. He comes in, and asks "where's my phone", when he knows I haven't been home all day. To top that off, his eyes are bloodshot. So, I knew he had probably drank. I found out later that my aunt actually saw him at the special section of the grocery store, buying a bottle. I guess my mom found 2 bottles in the garage. My guess: he's probably been drinking this entire time, just not enough for us to notice it. I guess he sent my brother a text message telling him he had bought a bottle or two. Every time my Mom came back from one ting or another, he would go running into his hole. He wouldn't come out until she left. I had a feeling that it was because he didn't want her to pick up on the fact that he was drinking, and I was right. It's going to get real interesting now.

I am in agreement; that he has totally messed her up. In my opinion/based on what I learned in school, I attribute this to shortly before they were married. My mom's friend asked her to be the Made of Honor in her wedding. However, even though she was going to be, my "father" told her no, because he didn't want another guy dancing with her before he did. In the eyes of my books/what I learned, that set the roots. It taught him that if he puts up enough of a fuss, he will always have control over here. I think it's a mix between her conscience and the whole "bleeding heart" shit. It gets her every time/is always the cause of this. My entire family jumped up and down, pleading with her not to let him back in. Yet, she did. She listens to nobody. If my Grandpa were still here, she wouldn't listen to him. Hell, she'd tell God to **** off.

As for reality, it's nobody's really. I don't quite know how to put this, but her reality is a fantasy. He will NEVER stop the shit that he does, for any reason at all. Hell, I got chewed out today because I am keeping MY car from him, "even though I paid for it". First of all, I paid for it. Secondly: I'm keeping it from him? Who does it belong to? Depending on how much my insurance settlement is, and hopefully this job works out because the interview went extremely well, I plan to buy a new car and get rid of the one "I am holding from him". The reality is he will NEVER change. As I said: the plan was for him to come home, get a job, and start paying my mom back. That was the plan, but it wasn't HIS plan.

She is also 59, but will be sixty in just over a month. Tell me more about the "happily ever after" back then, and some more examples of what you mentioned.
 aquaandorange14
Joined: 1/31/2017
Msg: 325
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Heartbroken(and it's not what you think)
Posted: 8/23/2018 8:47:01 PM
[So you're imitating your father with giving your mom a threat, him or you?]


Would you believe me if I told you he is back to his old ways again? Yes, he has hit the bottle already. I can't even lay claim to influencing this. Read what I wrote to Rise in the previous message. That will explain the story. I agree I shouldn't be here. If things had gone according to plan, Bailey and I would have moved into Concord Square Village, and I would have taken got that restraining order. As for not working, at least I am trying. I had one interview today that I felt went extremely well. I was more authentic, made the lady I met laugh a few times, etc. I was me, instead of trying to be perfect. Whether or not it works out is obviously the question. I'm not holding my breath, but you never know. I do see similarities between him and I. However, there are also big differences. When I screw up, I don't blame anyone else but myself. Never have and never well. I certainly don't take as much joy in alcohol as he does. He doesn't even try to stay sober. He expects everyone to clean up the messes he makes. I am not asking anyone to clean up my mess.

The problem is I stop working on myself when he is around. I am too consumed with watching him, waiting for him to hit the bottle/screw up some other way, etc. When he is gone I soak up the freedom of being away from him. I certainly tried to change this job thing when he was gone, but it didn't work out. Lately that has changed. So, you never know. Now might finally be the time. Did I mention I was an online tutor? It's not great money, but because I have done it for almost two years, my name has gotten around. Students want my help. So, I am chipping in. It might not be a lot, but ever little bit helps. Now that school is back in session, things are picking up nicely. Again, it isn't great, but it keeps my mind from rotting, and $25/hr isn't bad.

[It looks to me like you're waiting for insurance money to live on, and as an excuse not to get a job]

Again I say, this couldn't be father from the truth. I have been wanting to get going for a very long time, and I have made plenty of efforts to improve my chances: mock interviews, revamping my resume and cover letter skills, etc. I don't know if I mentioned this, but I had plans to work in the field I went to school for(behavioral health), after a few years I was going to look into going back to one of the three schools in the area to complete my pre-med classes on the weekend. Once I knocked those out, I was just going to see if I could get into one of the med schools. How is that being lazy? I'm anything but lazy really. The problem is I don't know anyone that could put in a good word for me with potential employers. I did have an old professor that is pretty well-known in the mental health field. He would have definetley helped me out, but he passed away a few years back. I guess I'm not lucky like a lot of people' my brother being one of them. Aside from all this job/father stuff, I've had to deal with a lot of other stuff I didn't ask for.
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