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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.      Home login  
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 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 26
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HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.Page 2 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
ok, i definitely don't understand how it works but i know what you're relating to.
something like if a train was going at the speed of light would the headlights shine out in front of it or...? and i have no idea to the answer but things are tying together now in my head.
:)
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 27
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 11:59:28 AM
Here is a pretty decent video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgH9KXEQ0YU
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 28
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HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 12:08:18 PM
i've watched a lot of sci-fi so should get that time changes like this, because they go on about going to mars and how everyone will be older when you get back and you won't have aged so much (or vice versa but i don't think they explain why.

it's weird einstein knew about this stuff without proof, i do admire scientists for this reason. they can just figure stuff out without seeing it.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 29
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 12:31:43 PM

Posted By: tetser
Hawkings in the Grand Design took the position that the Universe was created Spontaneously out of "nothing" through the effects of the laws of Gravity,

Hawking's theory is generally misquoted and misinterpreted, the point Hawking were trying to make was due to Gravity, the Universe "including life" would have created itself out of the Chaos of "Happenstance Circumstances" and wouldn't required a grand designer ....


Posted By: tetser
Some people claim that God was created by "primitive" peoples who did not understand the scientific reasons for existence.
most likely the people were paranoid...as they are today ...and would create a God to protect themselves from the boogeyman and other things that went bump in the night that they didn't understand


Posted By: tetser
As for where ther Grand Designer came from, that assumes he too had to be created

because to say that "everything has a creator except the creator" ...would be a contradiction based in Faith and therefore a religious belief


Posted By: tetser
but there is no reason to believe he has not always existed, that he is eternal.

this I know for the bible tells me so


Posted By: playata
both Einstein and Hawkings were super geniuses.

a Super genius would be a "Jack of all Trades and Master of all" ......Einstein and Hawking perhaps Mastered a "couple"
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 30
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 12:36:58 PM

Hawking's theory is generally misquoted and misinterpreted, the point Hawking were trying to make was due to Gravity, the Universe "including life" would have created itself out of the Chaos of
Happenstance Circumstances" and wouldn't required a grand designer ...


Exactly, and by so doing, Hawking was putting the cart before the horse....the laws of nature create nothing...they are instead created...so Hawking says gravity is responsible...and sure it is...without gravity, there would be no possibility of particles coalescing into quarts, neutrons, atoms, galaxies, etc.

BUT WHERE DID GRAVITY COME FROM.

Hawking assume it was always there... as some sort of universal truth...which is pure speculation on his part. If you go back to the singularity, scientists say that there were no "physical laws" until micro seconds after the explosion..... the point being...what caused that explosion to begin with? gravity? Didn't exist yet.

So like all of us, Hawking is just guessing.


this I know for the bible tells me so


I have no idea, I have never read the bible. Doesn't interest me. I don't confuse the concept of God with the Bible. I know you do. Sorry.
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 31
HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 12:42:03 PM

it's weird einstein knew about this stuff without proof, i do admire scientists for this reason. they can just figure stuff out without seeing it.


Well that is one of the things about Einstein...he figured things out through pure thought. He explained it as riding a beam of light ...
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 32
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HAWKING was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 12:47:26 PM

Well that is one of the things about Einstein...he figured things out through pure thought. He explained it as riding a beam of light ...


i'll never understand what he meant by that sadly, but yeah he was pretty clever. i love feynman for similar reasons even if i don't understand everything he goes on about either.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 33
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 2:51:46 PM

Posted By: playata
Exactly, and by so doing, Hawking was putting the cart before the horse....the laws of nature create nothing...they are instead created...so Hawking says gravity is responsible...and sure it is...without gravity, there would be no possibility of particles coalescing into quarts, neutrons, atoms, galaxies, etc.

BUT WHERE DID GRAVITY COME FROM.

again you're not grasping Hawking's point .......the theory he proposed refer to "after the big bang" ...therefore there would be no need to ask where gravity came from .....


Posted By: playata
So like all of us, Hawking is just guessing.

actually Hawking is not guessing... unless you wish to claim "when meteorites crash on the Earth" it's due to the exploits of a Grand Designer and not the laws of physics


Posted By: playata
I have no idea, I have never read the bible Doesn't interest me. I don't confuse the concept of God with the Bible..

in that case perhaps you should no longer refer to yourself as being Jewish ....because that "indisputably" tie your concept of God to the Bible
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 34
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 3:34:02 PM

again you're not grasping Hawking's point .......the theory he proposed refer to "after the big bang" ...therefore there would be no need to ask where gravity came from .....


Hawking's book the Grand Design had to do with the creation of the Universe "spontaneously" out of particles flitting into and out of existence before the Big Bang.....through laws of nature that could only have been created through a creator. Regardless, he can only speculate what preceded the Big Bang... because there was nothing...not even time, which started with the explosition and inflationary period of the Universe.



in that case perhaps you should no longer refer to yourself as being Jewish ....because that "indisputably" tie your concept of God to the Bible


Fortunately, you don't get to make the rules.

People like Jovan (aka Herod), die hard anti-god atheists always point to evolution, etc., to account for life on Earth...yet I have never heard anything but speculation, even from Hawking, accounting for the Creation itself.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 35
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 5:43:11 PM

Posted By: playata
Hawking's book the Grand Design had to do with the creation of the Universe "spontaneously" out of particles flitting into and out of existence before the Big Bang

again you're not grasping Hawking's concepts ...Spontaneous Creation is the concept of popping out of "nothingness" ...therefore "Spontaneous Creation" wouldn't require particles ...did your God require "pre-existing particles" to Spontaneous Generate into existence? ..


Posted By: playata
Regardless, he can only speculate what preceded the Big Bang

your posts gave praise to how much of a Super Genius Hawking and Einstein were and how their genius superceded the mental ability of mere mortals ....but yet here you are a mere mortal unable to grasp his theories by yet denouncing them ..so I guess we shouldn't pay any attention to your claim that Einstein was a super genius either


Posted By: playata
Fortunately, you don't get to make the rules.

you were the one that claim to be Jewish .....since you're not a Hebrew Jew but born of European German ancestry which means you "voluntarily accepted conversion" to Judaism ..that makes you a follower of the Jewish religion tied to the God Jehovah


Posted By: playata
die hard anti-god atheists always point to evolution, etc., to account for life on Earth..

according to your Jewish faith, God had arms and legs and made man in his own image.....God having or needing arms and legs points to God being under the jurisdiction of the laws of physics and "evolving" limbs ... therefore "God is a product of Evolution"


Posted By: playata
I have never read the bible

perhaps you read the Torah and didn't realize it was also the bible ...
 playata
Joined: 3/13/2018
Msg: 36
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 7:35:08 PM
I know what you're doing funchesf...you don't like the babbling competition from LGL, you want top billing when the fun babbling doll comes out, so you are trying to convince me you are dumb as a box of rocks, more of a babbler than LGL. Sorry, not buying it...I know you're smarter than you portray yourself, you have some work to do if you want to convince me you are dumber than LGL.

Don't sweat it fun...you have been babbling far longer than LGL so you still get top billing. Besides, LGL wouldn't make a good ragae mahn doll. I'm thinking in his case of mice and men for him...a big, dumb ox.


 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 37
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Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/20/2018 8:02:08 PM
We choose to believe anything we want.

Science wants to leave open the possibility that the singularity existed forever, but not God, no way!
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 38
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/21/2018 9:28:18 AM

Posted By: Playata
I know what you're doing funchesf.

what I'm doing is discussing the thread and staying on topic.....hopefully you will too ...I know it seem impossible ...but give it a try


Posted By: tetser
Gravity was created by the Universe as were all of the Laws of Physics.

actually you got that backwards ....it was gravity and the laws of physics that created the Universe ..these properties had to "first" exist in order for the Big Bang to take place ...

that was the point Hawking was trying to make ...that the big bang and the Universe was created due to the laws of physics causing the explosion and thereafter shaping the Universe and therefore wouldn't have require a Grand Designer
 laderata
Joined: 3/15/2018
Msg: 39
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/21/2018 9:48:25 AM

what I'm doing is discussing the thread and staying on topic..


Is that what you call your typical antisemitic slurs against the Jewish Religion?



actually you got that backwards ....it was gravity and the laws of physics that created the Universe ..these properties had to "first" exist in order for the Big Bang to take place ...


I am assuming you read the Grand Design and actually understood some of it...otherwise, wasting my time here... but yes, that is the theory offered by Hawking....the problem is that you don't seem to understand "tetser's" point...which is that saying Gravity existed pre-big bang is the issue raised in the first place. HOW did Gravity exist pre big-bang? It could exist only by being created....and that is where God comes in. The laws of physics create nothing in and of themselves, they only have effect on that which is already created... the particles that eventually formed the galaxies, the planets and human beings... those laws did not create gravity and they did not create the particles to begin with.

Now you certainly have the right to believe this all started spontaneously.... me, I don't believe that. Believe what you want though...your absolute right, even when you are absolutely wrong...which given your babbling...is often :-)
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 40
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/22/2018 6:54:40 AM

Posted By: laderata
Is that what you call your typical antisemitic slurs against the Jewish Religion?

I said that you're not a Hebrew Jew....and you're not a Hebrew Jew .......Jews "were" and "are" descended from Hebrews...you are a descendant of European Germans and therefore you're not a Hebrew Jew .. ...therefore it's not an antisemitic slur but simple logic .. if you bothered reading the Bible you would know this

and since you're not a Hebrew Jew, you can only become a Jew by converting to the Jewish religion ....since you claim that you're not religious ....therefore you're not a jew "PERIOD" .....again simple logic ......so stop using the Jews to play the victim


Posted By: laderata
the problem is that you don't seem to understand "tetser's" point...which is that saying Gravity existed pre-big bang is the issue raised in the first place. HOW did Gravity exist pre big-bang?..

Hawking implied that gravity is a result of Spontaneous Generation ...in other words....Gravity is the alpha and the omega ..it always existed


Posted By: laderata
It could exist only by being created

so are you stating that your God can only exist by being created? ..that is why to dispute Hawking's Theory ...is to dispute your own "belief" in God ..


Posted By: laderata
me, I don't believe that. Believe what you want though

"to believe is to doubt" ... funches 3:16
 platata
Joined: 3/14/2018
Msg: 41
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/22/2018 9:01:38 AM

I said that you're not a Hebrew Jew....and you're not a Hebrew Jew .......Jews "were" and "are" descended from Hebrews...you are a descendant of European Germans and therefore you're not a Hebrew Jew .. ...therefore it's not an antisemitic slur but simple logic .. if you bothered reading the Bible you would know this


Being a Reggae Mahn, you have shown yourself totally incapable of knowing what a "Hebrew Jew" is, you have also over and over shown yourself to be antisemitic...but that is not unusual... I had that discussion with Dee sometime ago...... the Jews more than any other groups supported Blacks and civil rights... but Blacks still hold it against the Jews for being successful, having their own businesses, etc. Sorry Reggae Mahn, you need to get over your envy and jealousy and be happy with your own accomplishments. I know that's hard given the environment you were brought up in... but give it a shot.



Hawking implied that gravity is a result of Spontaneous Generation ...in other words....Gravity is the alpha and the omega ..it always existed


You mean like God?



so are you stating that your God can only exist by being created? ..that is why to dispute Hawking's Theory ...is to dispute your own "belief" in God ..


No, I am saying that if God exists, he has always existed.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 42
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Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/22/2018 10:11:13 AM
Spontaneous creation, is what many including Hawking, believe.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 43
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/22/2018 10:23:31 AM

Posted By: platata
you have shown yourself totally incapable of knowing what a "Hebrew Jew" is

all I need to know about Hebrew Jews is that you're not a Hebrew Jew ...either explain how you are one ...or move on ....if you want to keep playing the victim then claim to be part Cherokee or something because you're clearly not a Hebrew Jew ...Abraham nor Jesus were blue eyed blond haired Germans from Europe


Posted By: platata
You mean like God?

nope....because there is proof that Gravity exist .....can you supply proof that God exist beyond the bible ...that answer would be "NO" ....Hawking's theory is that due to "Spontaneous Generation" a God is not require for the Universe to exist

Genesis 1.1 ...In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth
Hawking 1.1.. In the Beginning "a" God didn't create the Heavens nor the Earth... Gravity did


Posted By: platata
No, I am saying that if God exists, he has always existed.

by saying "IF" God exist????? ...you just implied "doubt" ........and proved my theory ....."to believe is to doubt" ...funches 3:16

now repent
 platata
Joined: 3/14/2018
Msg: 44
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/22/2018 10:26:27 AM
^^^^ Right... I mean there are only two choices (actually three)... God created the Universe or it was spontaneously created. Now I know a third choice is it always existed, and I know some still challenge the big bang theory, but I believe most physicists point to significant evidence that the Universe was created through a singularity, and that the Universe continues to expand at an accelerating rate, based I suppose on lots of things we don't know about yet...like Dark Matter, etc.
 platata
Joined: 3/14/2018
Msg: 45
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/22/2018 11:38:20 AM
"All I need to know about Hebrew Jews is that you're not a Hebrew Jew "

Therein lies your problem Reggae Mahn, thus the creation of the babbling funchesf doll. If you did not revel in your own ignorance, and like Trump, refuse to learn...the babbling funchesf doll would never have existed. :-)
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 46
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Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/22/2018 1:08:18 PM
We are in way over our feable exuberant tiny minds here.
We can't even figure out the simpler stuff!
Science doesn't even have a clue as to how planets and solar systems formed.
 platata
Joined: 3/14/2018
Msg: 47
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/22/2018 1:23:50 PM
Well yea it does... Once the Universe was created along with matter....and Gravity.... the matter coalesces and forms planets, etc.. at least that is the working theory. We actually know a great deal more about the Universe then we knew even 100 years ago... but one thing we have no idea about is how the Universe was created. Its mere speculation at that point... its not theory that can be tested like most other scientific endeavors.
 reason782
Joined: 1/28/2017
Msg: 48
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/22/2018 4:23:23 PM
Astronomy should stay within the range of our own solar system, I see no need to know anything outside of it as a top priority. Everything we have is here on Earth, our star or neighboring planets, it's not like anytime soon we will be traveling to other stars. Astronomy is a huge field, but if we were to prioritize things, I would say time should be more dedicated to figuring out our own solar system then other things, then maybe soon enough we can live on the other planets. Trying to figure how black holes work or how the universe was created isn't necessarily getting us anywhere. What we need is more bioastronomist, etc and less theoretical astronomy, just saying, the theories are great, they are fun to think about, but it isn't helping with the overpopulation problem we have, or solving any of our other problems.
 blallata
Joined: 3/16/2018
Msg: 49
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/23/2018 10:22:24 AM
^^^^ discovery and curiosity is a part of human nature, and lots of good things have come out of it. Einsteins discoveries have been put to endless practical uses that otherwise would not be possible, like GPS. Who knows how much discovering the secrets of the Universe might help us. Endless, cheap amounts of energy? medicine? we never know where these discoveries will take us.
 reason782
Joined: 1/28/2017
Msg: 50
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/23/2018 11:29:50 AM
if it starts off theoretical, then it is found to have applications, then it is no longer purely theoretical, in other words a pure mathematician is useless incomparsion to an applied one(in terms of use in society), but that is not to say that one day the pure mathematicians work will never be applicable
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