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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.      Home login  
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 Tomata
Joined: 3/17/2018
Msg: 51
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.Page 3 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
^^^^ fine... then on what basis do you suggest theoretical work is not worth pursuing if you recognize it might pay off in untold knowledge and benefits? beyond simply answering some of our most basic questions about the Universe.

(please excuse constant New Profiles... I have a blond wig headed bottom dweller after me from behind the scenes. :-)
 reason782
Joined: 1/28/2017
Msg: 52
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/23/2018 1:17:12 PM
if its only immediate applications are philosophy, then it is better to direct resources (man hours of thought) in other areas, such as bio-astronomy, biophysics, etc that are immediately applicable. Some areas of pure math didn't have applications for hundreds of years. All theoretical work will have applications, eventually, but, I think the question actually is, is discovering applications today more important, or is theoretical work which might not be applicable for hundreds of or more years more important? Of course society would want both, one for the long term and the other for the immediate term. But I think the best bet is to direct more resources in to those that have immediate applications. The problem with the longer term is we don't know if the human species will survive to that point. So those who discover applications today are more useful today, where as the other may be more useful in the future.
 badata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 53
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/25/2018 12:19:28 PM

A thread born out of ignorance, sigh.


Why is it some scientists (not all) are so myopic. Its like an engineering roommate I had in college. We went to one of the top engineering schools in the country...and he was sharp as a tack...and yet when it came to solving simple problems...he went through all of these calculations missing the forest through the trees... I actually solved problems quicker than him. I was good in Math, but I was not a Stem major.

If you are going to claim Andyaa that you can explain creation...then you are the typical ignorant scientist....and if you can't explain creation, then you have no business opining on the opinions in this thread, because you opinion is as worthless as anyone elses, which is why we still need the arts, musicians..actors, entertainers...what a dark and terrible world this would be if we had to rely on Scientists to understand the meaning of life. You people are absolutely clueless.
 badata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 54
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/25/2018 12:22:39 PM

Gods were created by primitive people to fill their gaps in understanding


You don't know what the fuk you are talking about. What the God of Gaps really means is that some stupid, know it all scientists think that just because they can answer some questions by "science" they can answer all questions by "science", filling in those gaps. Your arrogance is breathtaking, but not unusual among lesser scientists... I can give you a list of scientists... cream of the crop...who did not negate the possibility or even likelihood of God....you are just too ignorant and full of yourself to acknowledge what you don't know.

I will do that later tonight or tomorrow if I get a chance. Note... since I have a blond wigged bimbo bottom feeder after me, and since I refuse to hide my identity from her... you will know its me when I add an ATA at the end of my name. This profile probably will not last to this evening if the bimbo is watching.
 badata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 55
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/25/2018 12:48:51 PM
I didn't mean to pick on our Board Scientist... but this is what we are dealing with when debating these Charlatans on the issue of God. They think that because they understand Physics and some of the laws of the Universe...that gives them some sort of superior knowledge about the existence of God. It doesn't....not even close, that was the whole point of this thread. They are as clueless as anyone else about the creation of the Universe. They can speculate all they want.... but since the laws of physics create nothing...it is pure unadulterated speculation for them to guess about the origins, and when they attempt to hold themselves out as the truthseekers... it shows their lack of integrity, or it shows their lack on knowledge. This scientific clown here can't explain the Universe anymore than anyone one else. He can point to evidence that there is a Multiverse.(or I'm guessing he can)..but so what....did all of the infinite numbers of Universes just spring out of non-existence....? Did the particles that created the Universes spring out of non-existence? In a pigs eye.

Even the fact that we are conscious living beings is unexplainable..they come up with all sorts of guesses...quantum forces involved. They don't know. They will never know. Some secrets will always remain secrets.
 hootata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 56
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/25/2018 7:50:19 PM
I promised more info:

Top Scientists who believed/believe in god:

Galileo
Kepler
Descartes
Newton
Maxwell

Einstein wrote to a schoolgirl that

"everyone who is seriously engaged in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that the laws of nature manifest the existence of a spirit vastly Superior to that of men and one in the face of which we with our modest Powers must feel humble"

Allan Sandage, the father of modern astronomy, who discovered quasars and won the crafoord prize, which is astronomy's Nobel Prize, stated

" I find it quite improbable that such order came out of Chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery what is the explanation for the miracle of existence why there is something rather than nothing."

But our anonymous message board scientist knows better. Sure thing
 hootata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 57
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/26/2018 5:00:05 AM
Good deflection from the scientific hypocrite. I did not say that Einstein believed in a personal God, I said the exact opposite. The quote also has nothing to do with a personal God. You are the one lying and taking things out of context.

As for my appealing to Authority, that was my entire Point regarding the start of this thread to begin with. Hawking is no Authority on the existence of God. He should have stuck with black holes. But he saw an opportunity to sell books and sold sold his authority on his own personal, speculative beliefs.

This is the bottom line. Science cannot and will not fill in the gaps. Additionally there is no contradiction between the laws of physics and the existence of God. You just have your head so far up your rear end you can't see that.
 happyata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 58
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/26/2018 3:34:37 PM

n Hawking's work, there was no gap to fill with god


To the contrary, there is no gap to fill only if you do not worry about the "whys". Why were there Laws of Physics to begin with? How did they come into being ..as some top scientists have noted...with such mathematical precision?


As for my appealing to Authority, that was my entire Point regarding the start of this thread to begin with. Hawking is no Authority on the existence of God

That's not the correct use of an appeal to authority! You appealed to other people's authority to substantiate your claim, ie Galileo, Kepler, Descartes, Newton, Maxwell. Hawking never did that. He was the authority.


No...it is Hawking who is selling his "purported" authority here in the book the "Grand Design"... would anybody have been interested in buying that book if any schlep had written it? Of course not....Its because Hawking... of a Brief History of Time fame told atheists what they wanted to hear... and told the religious why they were wrong.... Either way, the book generated a lot of interest and I'm sure a lot of money for Hawking. And let me reiterate...he was not an authority in the least with the existence of God because he simply ignored those questions he could not possibly answer...like...why is there Gravity (or pointing to some vague M theory or some such thing)

Its a given that Science will fill in some of the Gaps... but science cannot fill in the most important Gaps...How and Why. It can explain what is, but it can't explain why it is the way it is.

Science is not incompatible with the issue of the existence of God. There is no conflict. There is no reason they cannot exist together. The Science is the Science. God is the reason for the Science. Simple when you think about it.
 happyata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 59
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/26/2018 3:42:49 PM
I remember reading a short book reviewing Hawking's Grand Design some time back. And the mathematician author (a Christian) explained it like this. The Jet engine was created by an intelligent man. The jet engine exists because that intelligent man created it. It would never have existed on its own simply because of the laws of physics... because the laws of physics never would have created a jet engine. The engine works...does what it is supposed to do... can be explained by science using Newton's theories on Motion...but the how it is here..not what it can do... is explained only by pointing to the creator (this is the gist of the example I recall it although I am sure the author did a much better job of it.

Obviously the same analogy applies to the Universe. Science tells us to some degree how the Universe works... how particles coalesced to form suns and galaxies, etc. etc. but it doesn't tell us how or why the Universe is here. That is all guess work. Some attribute it to a much greater superior entity. Having created the Universe, the real question is does "God" give a damn about it or its living inhabitants? At least the question to me.
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 60
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/27/2018 11:00:16 AM

Posted By: happyata
The Jet engine was created by an intelligent man. The jet engine exists because that intelligent man created it. It would never have existed on its own simply because of the laws of physics... because the laws of physics never would have created a jet engine.

actually Jet Engines was created by The Laws of Physics ....the Sun is a jet engine ....Man simply constructed a device to harness and replicate the mechanics and called the device a Jet Engine ...."a rose by any other name"

that which Man or God creates already exist within the laws of Physics .....funches 3:16
 topplata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 61
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/27/2018 12:34:59 PM

this is one of thee worst examples, only a proper cretin would claim this and use it in an argument.


Make sure you let John Lennox, the author of the book I read who came up with this example...know you think he is a "cretin". Let me know what he says. Here is his background. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lennox. I have no doubt you are smarter than he is.


First, you have to understand that under quantum mechanical rules anything that isn't forbidden has a probability of occurring, albeit on a scale of highly improbable to inevitable.


Wow what insight....if something can happen it will happen. Does that apply to the existence of God too?


Now this creatardes thinking comes from biblical readings where the universe was created as we see it now. God created the heavens and the earth bla bla bla.


Really, doesn't this depend on the definition of "heavens and the earth"... can not the entire Universe be considered the "heavens", or is it cut off somewhere?


We know this to be incorrect because when we look into space we see the evolution of our universe in real time. We see simpler structures the further back in time until we get to a singularity where it is a wave function of probability and therefore quantum mechanical rules apply where if it is not forbidden then it can happen.


You mean those same quantum rules created by God, or do you mean the Singularity was created by God.... so the quantum rules created the Universe? Where did they come from?


Therefore, the universe wasn't created as we see it so you cannot use the analogy of a jet engine being created as we see it.


Scientific Babble...either the Universe always existed, and we both agree it didn't...or it was created... the issue is how it was created.


So, given enough time, bearing in mind there is no time in a singularity, infinity applies where even the most unlikely event has a 100% chance of existing, a universe can come into existence in its simplest form...for no reason. Bingo, one universe, not out of Nothing but a wave function of probability.


Sure thing...something from nothing because without time it just has to happen...or maybe nothing happens? That is what you would expect is it not.... nothing begets nothing. When did Nothing every create anything? Any examples...other than pure speculation?


This is what Hawking's was referring to. He has no need for a God as the prime mover and this whole Kalam cosmological argument falls apart.


So now you are appealing to the hawking authority again... he is a theoretical physicist...so even though he is abolutely as clueless as the rest of us about the creation... he must be right.


Under quantum mechanical rules a jet engine is too large to be described quantum mechanically, as is the universe. So a jet engine couldn't appear out of thin air under a Newtonian description, nor can a universe appear as we see it out of thin air. This is like comparing apples and oranges and concluding banana. If the universe started off as a singularity (which it did) then QM applies (which it does) where even nothing is something under the Heisenberg principles (which is correct) Then God is not necessary.


Gobbledygook...doublespeaking nonsense.


We have now pushed God to a place where, even if he does exist, he's completely redundant. You can thank Hawking for proving gods non-existence


Appealing to that non-existent authority figure again.


actually Jet Engines was created by The Laws of Physics ....the Sun is a jet engine ....Man simply constructed a device to harness and replicate the mechanics and called the device a Jet Engine ...."a rose by any other name"


Fun, do you get paid by the Babble?
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 64
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/28/2018 8:37:16 AM

Posted By: topplata
Fun, do you get paid by the Babble?

getting paid by the Babble would explain why I haven't been paid anything...but apparently you get paid by how many fake profiles you create ...or perhaps running some type of scam


Posted By: topplata
Make sure you let John Lennox, the author of the book I read who came up with this example...know you think he is a "cretin". Let me know what he says. Here is his background. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lennox. I have no doubt you are smarter than he is.

John Lennox is a "christian apologist" ..which means you might as well be quoting a parrot ....to present an argument that the mechanics of a jet engine was created by Man and didn't already exist in Nature is not only kinda silly....but dishonest
 factata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 65
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/28/2018 10:28:17 AM

getting paid by the Babble would explain why I haven't been paid anything...but apparently you get paid by how many fake profiles you create ...or perhaps running some type of scam


What type of scam would that be?



John Lennox is a "christian apologist" ..which means you might as well be quoting a parrot ....to present an argument that the mechanics of a jet engine was created by Man and didn't already exist in Nature is not only kinda silly....but dishonest


How is his explanation and opinion "dishonest"..have you even bothered reading that portion of his book where he speaks about the "jet Engine" or as always...is this just more clueless babbling?

What the fuk is a "christian apologist"? I'm not a Christian so have no idea what you are talking about... regardless this is one of the most eminent mathematicians in the world.....and you think his opinions are "silly"? What kind of babbling opinion is this and based on what?
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 66
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/28/2018 1:47:05 PM

Posted By: factata
What type of scam would that be?

well "scam no.1" is obvious ...no one creates over a 100 profiles without the intent to first scam the site ...therefore you can not play the victim ... the other scams can be deduced once you answer the question as to "why did you need to create over 100 fake profiles?"


Posted By: factata
How is his explanation and opinion "dishonest"..have you even bothered reading that portion of his book where he speaks about the "jet Engine" or as always..

FOR EXAMPLE: to claim that a "radio" only exist because Man created it would be the same type of dishonesty since radio waves already exist in Nature and Man simply create a device to harness and manipulate radio waves and then named that device a "Radio" .....

the same with a jet engine ....the laws of physics that govern jet propulsion already exist in nature ...Man simply created a device to harness and manipulate the "laws of physics" and named that device a "jet engine" ...therefore to use a jet engine created by a human in comparison to something that "Spontaneous Generated" is being dishonest


Posted By: factata
is this just more clueless babbling?

perhaps that which you perceive as babbling is actually your inability to conceive basic concepts pertaining to the laws of physics, but yet you're here trying to discuss the theories of someone that you claim is a Super Genius .... hope might spring eternal ...but alas


Posted By: factata
What the fuk is a "christian apologist"?

well first go to the link that "you yourself" provided and read the very first sentence in which it states that John Lennox is a "Christian Apologist" ...apparently you fail to read the crap you except us to read ...so please no more links...next time invite the person here to the forum


Posted By: factata
I'm not a Christian so have no idea what you are talking about..

actually you don't need to be a Christian ... at your finger tips you have access to the combine knowledge of all Humankind called "The Internet" ....so take the time from making fake profiles and type "Christian Apologist" into the search engine ...then click search


Posted By: factata
regardless this is one of the most eminent mathematicians in the world.....and you think his opinions are "silly"?

John Lennox is silly because he's a "Christian Mathematician" ...and believe in Christian Math ....1 God + 1 God + 1 God =1 God

I'm beginning to understand why you're having trouble conceiving Hawking's theories
 factata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 67
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/28/2018 6:42:28 PM
Sorry andy, wrong again. Christian apologist means nothing but an insult and derogatory term two people who defend the Christian faith, primarily because people like you are so offensive to Christians that Christians feel the need to defend themselves. In a country where freedom of religion is sacrosanct, there should be no need for a Christian apologist. Why should Christians have to apologize to anybody for being Christians when you people bring zero to the table other than gobbledygook. I do give Hawking credit for not only being brilliant but being smart enough to know how to make money appealing to the masses in his God less book, as if Hawking had any special special insight into the Creator of the universe.

And yes, not only did physicists like Einstein have to rely on mathematicians to help him formulate his theories, but mathematicians probably have a better understanding of the mathematical Majesty the universe is mechanics.

Fun, one day just to show me and us you can do it, you are going to have to make a post without any actual Babel in it. I know you're smarter than you appear on this board. Give it a try. As to my profiles, I will create them as necessary until the person reporting and terminating me grows tired. You are fortunate that people find your babbling somewhat amusing or you would have found yourself torpedoed a long ago do to your racism and bigotry. No that is not a threat from me, if I never made any effort to terminate herod Jovan, or elphaba, or hopeless, or some others, you don't have to worry about being on my list. I do not use my profiles to report people except under the most extenuating of circumstances, i e when they do it to me.
 factata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 68
Hawkings was wrong about the non-existence of God.
Posted: 3/28/2018 6:44:13 PM
, I apologize for the typos above. I am using text-to-speech in my new profile which will likely be gone before the end of this evening, does not yet have editing privileges.
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