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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?      Home login  
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 2plunk
Joined: 10/1/2016
Msg: 26
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A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?Page 2 of 2    (1, 2)
We're in the shadows -- on the walls of the cave..
So I would say –we’re all born of a slave.

However-- imo . we all have a choice.
One does not awaken, in the morning, intent on evil.
It's a mater of perspective.. bst. author

I also believe we do the best we can with the information at hand.
So I guess we're born good--just really dumb !

freedom for individuality within the constraints of the collective?

History is full of majorities being controlled by the minority.
Reason being-- the knowledge, who communicates best, who's got the books--etc..
I don't believe the majority has ever ruled--? -thinking wtf.. is that possible ?

However with each jump in communication, we are edging towards a more egalitarian individuality.
Reading,, writing,,,the printing press -- the radio, tv all exponential growths in communication—
allowing for an individual’s,, deeper understanding of the light coming from the '5G monitor' outside the cave..

lol--so I guess my conclusion is--nope we're most likely f**k..
 justinelle
Joined: 8/28/2017
Msg: 27
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A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?
Posted: 6/21/2018 8:09:17 AM
Wage and debt slaves are not free, but they like to think they are, in the corporate games plan all individuals adhere to.

Humans have done what they like, when they like, how they like for most of their 200,000 year history, and a few tribal groups still retain this freedom, where they have to work 14 hours a week at most, for all their needs, and the rest of the time is theirs to do what they wish, which is normally party and socialise.

So one can speak of relative freedom, free to pay for this or that, till the money runs out and then freedom is questionable, ask those with no hones, no jobs, living on the streets all about freedom in our caring modern societies.

The individuals at the other end of the economic spectrum with more cash than time to spend it, have bought their freedom, can buy whatever they wish, as everyone has a price, and with unlimited finances one can buy the most expensive people there are, which are just small change for them anyway.

You have the freedom to take your own life but as for the rest you are a slave for money, as in this world everything has a cost, its just that simple, but it is historically a recent introduction for the human species.

You are individuals and thus have even less power….. as individuals are vulnerable to exploitation, robbery, violence, never mind corporate garbage fed to the innocents. Where once it was the tobacco industry that legally killed over 2 million globally a year for profit, now its many more greedy corporations who what you money and regard your life as worthless. Corporations now legally kill million through pollution, pharmaceuticals, junk foods and feed the crematoriums better and faster than the Nazi’s could ever dream of.

So the war against poverty is a never ending money making exercise in which they kill the consumer, as they know there are plenty more suckers where they came from, just as the tobacco industry does.
 bancata
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 28
A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?
Posted: 6/21/2018 8:43:46 AM
^^LOL...yes, ancient man never had to work, never had to forage for food, never had to build shelters, grow crops, hunt....all they did every day was party and have sex...life was so easy back then. Are you sure you live on the Planet Earth?.... you have the strangest most ridiculous posts I have ever seen anywhere.
A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?
Posted: 6/21/2018 5:28:55 PM
Ok, so into the midst of all of this typical predictable rehashed jibber jabber I will introduce another angle for this topic...

...how 'bout we consider the idea that freedom is being able to not compromise one's most desired character for oneself. What I mean is this: Putting it onto a financial scale...one the one end, you have the poor, who "do what they must" to retain income, when they themselves might not approve of what they do or it wouldn't be what they'd prefer in terms of behavior or societal norms. This would include tolerating some things to keep a job, as well as doing things that they'd rather not do for said income. On the other end, when you're wealthy enough, you don't have to cater to such things - you don't have to worry about losing income when acting according to what leaves one's integrity and self-respect intact.

And in what cases would it be the other way around: The poor being able to afford being true to what they think "is right", and the wealthy not?
 laughata
Joined: 6/18/2018
Msg: 30
A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?
Posted: 6/22/2018 3:27:09 PM
^^^ how do you define poor. Is a bohemian artist living a subsistence existence but doing exactly what he wants with his life poor? How about a man like Trump...he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, but has he ever been free? Ever been happy a day in his life? Is he not shackled by chains of his own making...

Its always been said that once you have the basics, such as food and shelter, and I would add health, that nothing has much of an impact on your happiness.

Justinelli gets it wrong because he assumes people who have to work are slaves...what he doesn't understand is that there is a difference between living to work and working to live and most people have a balance between the two. He just sees the world in black and white terms and I think he likes imagining that everybody is miserable.

In the US at least, people have the absolute freedom to try to be whoever they want to be, and if that means a less financially rewarding career but a more rewarding one, that is what many, many people choose to do.

It is the rare person who would be happy sitting around all day doing nothing. Most people are happiest, from my observations anyway, when they feel productive...and if that means painting a sunset...so be it.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/2/2018
Msg: 31
A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?
Posted: 6/23/2018 6:41:26 AM
Most likely we are all slaves to the indoctrination of our own societies. I heard a story of a university professor who every year could anticipate what questions his students were going to ask before they even asked them. These students thought they were thinking independently, but in reality they were thinking with a “herd mentality.”
 fukaza
Joined: 6/19/2018
Msg: 32
A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?
Posted: 6/23/2018 8:28:18 AM
^^^^probably true, and yet people believe themselves to be independent thinkers. But it's normal for people to develop beliefs as they grow in their particular environments.
A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?
Posted: 6/24/2018 6:59:30 AM

Most likely we are all slaves to the indoctrination of our own societies. I heard a story of a university professor who every year could anticipate what questions his students were going to ask before they even asked them. These students thought they were thinking independently, but in reality they were thinking with a “herd mentality.”


^^^^probably true, and yet people believe themselves to be independent thinkers. But it's normal for people to develop beliefs as they grow in their particular environments.

These don't quite make sense...I think this is being misinterpreted.
 topoaza
Joined: 6/20/2018
Msg: 34
A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?
Posted: 6/25/2018 9:21:11 AM
^^^ if so, it is simply response to other posts. The fact is man is freer today than he has been in his 200,000 year history. Healthier, far more knowledgeable and automation has made life much easier. For society to thrive, man of course must contribute his part for the good of the whole, whether it be in the capitalistic, socialistic or communistic system.....but life is much better for us than all of those who came before us. No doubt about that.
 eYestargaze
Joined: 2/10/2018
Msg: 35
A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?
Posted: 7/9/2018 6:20:58 PM
;) dear kissfromarose
U have missed the part of making your dreams come tru . .
Meanwhile, I LuV that new country song . , something about; U make your plans & U hear God laffing. U only get one say in the three-dimension that life sorta is. I encourage U to make peace with the dreams U have while asleep. Life is an adventure. Dreams come tru. Nitemares are just dreams 2.
Free will or slave?
I won't gift U that choice. U have 2 figure It out.
I cannot escape my natural talents. Does that make me a slave? I think we all have our places in the dance of life. 4 a reason
Just sayin
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/2/2018
Msg: 36
A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?
Posted: 7/15/2018 8:45:36 PM
I think things were better when people lived in caves and we were hunting mammoths with spears.
 2plunk
Joined: 10/1/2016
Msg: 37
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A philosophical question: Are we born free or slaves?
Posted: 7/25/2018 6:29:35 PM
Not sure your statement has any reference to my shadows on the cave wall—
But I feel like writing--
I was referring to Plato’s analogy of the shadows on the walls of the cave..
It goes to the core of the OP.


Most likely we are all slaves to the indoctrination of our own societies. I heard a story of a university professor who every year could anticipate what questions his students were going to ask before they even asked them. These students thought they were thinking independently, but in reality they were thinking with a “herd mentality.”


Imo. You’ve brought together two good points—the indoctrination, is what Plato was talking about..
The OP has a great question that was answered by one of greatest philosophers in history--
He just put it in terms of ‘chained slaves’ watching puppets’ shadows, casted on the walls of a cave--- His answer was quite dramatic !! smiling..
and
I like the Prof. story—lol Never read that one before,, but you can bet -your-last-dollar, it’s true..
Also-- I think there could be a logical reasoning for the herd mentality..


I think things were better when people lived in caves and we were hunting mammoths with spears.


Possible—If I’m not mistaken the Kong Bushman/Bushwoman, only needs to work 27hrs per week to fulfill their substance..
However I think their substance can go terribly wrong, very fast—and that’s something modern society has tempered out..
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