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 UKBunny
Joined: 8/10/2018
Msg: 51
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Is the right to free speech ending in America?Page 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
I'm fascinated as to why this pile is relevant to the UK Forum -
I think I'm 'supposed' to care...........
.........I don't.

Have a great weekend.

 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 52
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Is the right to free speech ending in America?
Posted: 1/11/2019 1:16:22 AM

However, you can go round saying that "I think all ____ people are stupid" all day long, without suffering legal ramifications, as long as you are not threatening to harm them.


But this is exactly the sort of stuff where it all started back in the 1930s. All ???? are dirty, money grubbing, evil people who prey on the ????? people!
 calliopedreams
Joined: 11/21/2017
Msg: 53
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Is the right to free speech ending in America?
Posted: 1/11/2019 3:51:22 PM
{Hopefully, Bunny is off for the weekend, and won't have to see this "pile"}
Hi, Chap -

In order to understand the USA's vehement protection of all types of expression, including "Hate Speech," you must look at it historically. Most Americans are blissfully unaware of the reasons we began to protect hate speech. As ironic as it seems now, many Southerners in the US objected to the rhetoric of famous black leaders, including Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, as being "Hate Speech" that was calculated to foment a race war. They wanted it stopped!!


U.S. law only began to protect hateful speech during the 1960s. The reason, in retrospect, is clear—repressive Southern state governments were trying to criminalize the civil-rights movement for its advocacy of change. White Southerners claimed (and many really believed) that the teachings of figures like Martin Luther King or Malcolm X were "hate speech" and would produce "race war." By the end of the decade, the Court had held that governments couldn't outlaw speech advocating law violation or even violent revolution. Neither Black Panthers nor the KKK nor Nazi groups could be marked off as beyond the pale purely on the basis of their message.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/02/free-speech-isnt-free/283672/

Similarly, Europe's unfortunate holocaust history, to which you allude in your previous comment, shaped your own kind of laws that reflect what your society believes to be in the best interest of its populace.

As the article linked above so eloquently states:


Rauch responds that

"painful though hate speech may be for individual members of minorities or other targeted groups, its toleration is to their great collective benefit, because in a climate of free intellectual exchange hateful and bigoted ideas are refuted and discredited, not merely suppressed .... That is how we gay folks achieved the stunning gains we've made in America: by arguing toward truth."

I think he's right. But the argument isn't complete without conceding something most speech advocates don't like to admit:

Free speech does do harm.

It does a lot of harm.

And while it may produce social good much of the time, there's no guarantee—no "invisible hand" of the intellectual market—that ensures that on balance it does more good than harm. As Rauch says, it has produced a good result in the case of the gay-rights movement. But sometimes it doesn't.

Europeans remember a time when free speech didn't produce a happy ending. They don't live in a North Korea-style dystopia. They do "take free speech seriously," and in fact many of them think their system of free speech is freer than ours. Their view of human rights was forged immediately after World War II, and one lesson they took from it was that democratic institutions can be destroyed from within by forces like the Nazis who use mass communication to dehumanize whole races and religions, preparing the population to accept exclusion and even extermination. For that reason, some major human-rights instruments state that "incitement" to racial hatred, and "propaganda for war," not only may but must be forbidden. The same treaties strongly protect freedom of expression and opinion, but they set a boundary at what we call "hate speech."


If you do have a chance, please try to read the entire article, since it explains so much that helps make sense of the cultural differences we perceive in our interpretations of protected speech. It also provides some insight into the fact that, post-WWII, our free speech laws very closely resembled those of Europe's.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 54
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Is the right to free speech ending in America?
Posted: 1/12/2019 2:28:52 AM
Yes but those Southerners worried about a race war were happy as long as whites reigned supreme. The end game they sought was to maintain the status quo and let's face it. reserve free speech only for white people.

I do understand your other points but can't agree for one second. There are far too many of us who have believed the tripe force fed to us over the years. And there are too many people only too willing to listen to these idiots. We've just had a case where a couple have gone to prison for various terrorist activities and who named their children Adolf and Eva.

We've still idiots who maintain the earth is flat (some of them have hired a cruise ship next year to prove it) and others who deny the holocaust. The first don't matter, the second cannot be allowed to spread such nonsense which could cause harm.

On a personal basis, I run a large social group. we have a zero tolerance for racism, gayism (if that's a word) etc. I'm comfortable with that.
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