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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...      Home login  
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 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 51
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Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...Page 3 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Although i do think you wouldn't treat someone as a 2nd class citizen for being gay.

In order to maintain the highest quality forums you are restricted to having no more then 2 of the last 10 posts on a thread.
Since 2 of the last 10 posts are yours you can not post to this thread. Should let me edit instead then.
 happata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 52
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 12:46:41 PM

I just think that people following a religion that says all this bad stuff


You just don't get it, in modern times, people are not taking the literal words of the Bible to heart...that has nothing to do with believing in God of course..... Bad stuff like what? Praying to God?
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 53
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 12:49:29 PM
^ Then I guess any number of them shouldn't preface what they say next with "The Bible says"...

vvv


how many of them do? I know religious people..none of them ever talk about stoning people, and all of the other things the bible allows for. Who takes the Bible literally these days among the religious?

ah yes, the selective "The Bible says"... and they interpret it a gazillion ways in the process, ya know like not making an idol in the form of anything (idolizing Trump), not misusing the name of god (like when evoking god's name to make wishes), remembering the Sabbath day (and not keeping it holy other than a day off of work), honouring thy father and mother (and treating them like crap), thou shalt not murder (but patriotically causing wars, never mind marching off to them), thou shalt not commit adultery (huge laugh there), thou shalt not steal (must mean openly or get caught at it), false testimony against thy neighbour (like all the bible thumping liars particularly in your conservative party), thou shall not covet they neighbours house, wife or property (another big laugh)...and that's just the Christian bible. Funny thing is about the stoning, they don't do that any longer but they break all the commandments...selectively, pray for forgiveness and then do it all over again. Disclaimer - that does not mean all, it means very many.
 happata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 54
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 12:51:07 PM
^^^^ how many of them do? I know religious people..none of them ever talk about stoning people, and all of the other things the bible allows for. Who takes the Bible literally these days among the religious?
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 55
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Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 12:52:25 PM
The baker is taking it to heart. His country just made it legal for him to.
But will accept some people do not take everything to heart but can't you just class yourself as another religion now? You need a better bible anyway? Christianity is tainted because of what we're discussing. Or maybe force those types of christians to call them something else and just have another bible based only on the teachings of christ and not god?
 happata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 56
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 1:14:20 PM
^^^^ I just think you and most other religious bigots don't get it. People are wired to believe in God and see something greater than themselves....and regardless of what the anti-religious say, valid study after study shows the great benefits of religion to people, at least the people in the United States. Organized religious practice is just a method of honoring God in a person's life. Tradition and Ritual has many benefits in itself, with most Religions have plenty of...... you don't have to believe in God or Religion if you choose, but you sure as hell have no right to tell other people they cannot believe in God, or falsely claim, with zero evidence, that Religion turns people into bigots. I'm pretty sure most bigots are not religious. I would put money on it. White Trash, Neo-Nazis, that kind of human filth doesn't believe in God for the most part... People who believe in God by my experience are generally very decent people. And Kind people too....how many anti-religious bigots on this board would you say are kind people?
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 57
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Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 1:52:31 PM
So you're saying it's ok for someone to deny a gay person a service?

In order to maintain the highest quality forums you are restricted to having no more then 2 of the last 10 posts on a thread.
Since 2 of the last 10 posts are yours you can not post to this thread.
 47Seagulls
Joined: 3/16/2018
Msg: 58
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 2:00:23 PM

^^^^ I just think you and most other religious bigots don't get it. People are wired to believe in God and see something greater than themselves....and regardless of what the anti-religious say, valid study after study shows the great benefits of religion to people, at least the people in the United States.


In this day and age of education and knowledge, there is no "need" for religion. Children aren't born "wired" to believe in god, they are taught religion just like they are taught hate, bigotry, racism or how to hate those of a different colour or sexuality. This baker was not born to hate gays or born to refuse to bake a cake for a gay couple - he was taught hate and to be a homophobe. Taught.

And yes, many find a benefit in religion. Many find a benefit in camping or hiking or meditating or volunteering. Religion has many benefits and many drawbacks. I'm not even going to mention the long standing rites and rituals, many find comfort in tradition and while others say tradition at times becomes just a bad habit.

[quote[Organized religious practice is just a method of honoring God in a person's life. Tradition and Ritual has many benefits in itself, with most Religions have plenty of...... you don't have to believe in God or Religion if you choose, but you sure as hell have no right to tell other people they cannot believe in God, or falsely claim, with zero evidence, that Religion turns people into bigots.

Well, someone taught these people to be bigoted against the LGTBQ or people of a different colour or of a different religion or people of no religion. Its a cake FFS. Its not like baking a cake is going to turn that intolerant religious baker gay. They sure weren't taught tolerance or how to make up their own mind or how to allow someone else their own opinion. No one is telling anyone NOT to believe in a religion - But, there are far more religious telling other what to think, believe and do.


I'm pretty sure most bigots are not religious. I would put money on it. White Trash, Neo-Nazis, that kind of human filth doesn't believe in God for the most part... People who believe in God by my experience are generally very decent people.


I'm not positive on the religion of neo nazis, white supremacists or the KKK but I do know that today, most identify as Conservative. And the majority are christian. Fake christian, IMO, but christian. I'll go out on limb here and say, most Conservatives are religious. I also find it kind of sad and pathetic that those "fake" christians who chastise Muslims for being anti gay and anti women's rights also show no true support of the LGTBQ community or women...they just like to bytch about Muslims and feel a little superior to them by stating so. We still don't have a female Pope or even a Bishop or Cardinal....the Catholic Church, one of the largest mills produces religious folks still won't fully accept females as true equals. This is taught. The term "blind faith" is used for some....I find "blind faith" sad and pathetic - but you're entitled to have it.

And finally, yes, people who believe in god by my experience are generally decent people - as well, people who don't believe in god by my experience are generally decent people. The only difference between the two groups - "blind faith" vs. free will and independent thought.


And Kind people too....how many anti-religious bigots on this board would you say are kind people?


The answer to that is - as many, if not more than, those that profess to be religious or are fake christians here on the boards. The Libs and no religious on the forums are far more open minded and kind. IMHO
 happata
Joined: 3/21/2018
Msg: 59
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 2:07:57 PM

So you're saying it's ok for someone to deny a gay person a service?


If you can show me logically how you derived that from my opinion, I will be happy to respond.


 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 60
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Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 5:29:23 PM
People are wired to believe in God and see something greater than themselves

ok,higher power, i do get that. As a nihilist i see pretty nothing as having meaning. Not morals either. I can see the side effects from having certain morals and think they should not cause suffering but i do not believe any set of morals is true or can be considered correct. But as a nihilist i can also see that my moral stance means nothing. Still i will support it as it's wired in me to do that.


valid study after study shows the great benefits of religion to people

yes, i get that it's good to have routines and rituals can help people feel better. I get that it's nice to meet other people with the same beliefs as yourself. Prayer can give hope. Meditation on a large scale can make nations more peaceful, etc.


Organized religious practice is just a method of honoring God in a person's life

not sure if god has ever been alive. i am an ignostic. not agnostic, not atheist, ignostic.


Tradition and Ritual has many benefits in itself

they also have drawbacks. In an evolving society though do we really need traditions? If we did need traditions though why were gay people not permitted to marry?


you don't have to believe in God or Religion if you choose[

i'm ignostic. i choose that there is no clear definition of a god that makes sense.


but you sure as hell have no right to tell other people they cannot believe in God

i have never even said people cannot believe in a god. i've said religion has bigotry ingrained into it. and so if you choose a religion that upholds bigotry then your belief system is based on that too.


or falsely claim, with zero evidence, that Religion turns people into bigots

i elaborated on this and said it enforces bigots.


I'm pretty sure most bigots are not religious. I would put money on it. White Trash, Neo-Nazis, that kind of human filth doesn't believe in God for the most part...

human filth? Interesting choice of words. But nope, they're usually white, male, and in control. Bit like Trump, Nigel farage, tommy robinson, et al.


People who believe in God by my experience are generally very decent people. And Kind people too....how many anti-religious bigots on this board would you say are kind people?

define kind. I know the catholic church has it's fair share of child rape scandals for a start and that's not kind enough to me. Hey there's even this one guy who refused to bake a nice cake for a gay couple, he sounds kind of mean don't you think?

You know what else?I don't even know anyones religion on here tbh, i just don't like people treating others like 2nd class citizens or human filth.
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 61
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Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 5:41:38 PM
Wish my quotes had like your stuff as a headline as think it would've looked good, hate it when sites auto space in between lines, anyway i'm glad you brought nazis into the convo:

However, there are neo-Nazis who do follow Christianity such as Aryan Nations and the Traditionalist Workers Party, either the orthodox sort, Kinism (a version of Christianity that is white nationalist and opposes racial integration and miscegnation) or heretical variants like Christian Identity. Many Christian neo-Nazis reconcile their anti-Semitism with their following of the teachings of Jesus by subscribing to the Khazar myth, claiming that modern Jews (particularly Ashkenazi Jews) are impostors to the claim of being descended from the ancient Israelites, that they are instead descended from converts from the Khazar people north of the Caucusus, and that white Europeans are the true heirs of Israel.

And you forgot the KKK.

 Viper1j
Joined: 2/6/2015
Msg: 62
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 5:54:07 PM

So you're saying it's ok for someone to deny a gay person a service?


I'm saying if you're Lesbo, (which, just between you, me, and the fencepost, I think it's a total waste of two perfectly good women) and you FORCE a baker to make you a cake for your lesbian wedding, you forfeit your right to complain if it tastes like stirfried chicken shit mixed with kitty litter.

Why not just go to a place that has made a niche market serving people that no one else will and let them rake in the dollars?

If I were in the business, I would be making wedding cakes exclusively made out of big d@cks, and laughing my way to the bank.

Trust me, the wife doesn't care where the money comes from.
 47Seagulls
Joined: 3/16/2018
Msg: 63
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 6:12:27 PM
^^^

Maybe some of these closed minds feckless folks that can't make a cake for a gay couple should post outside their place of business just who they won't serve. So put up a sign that says "We don't serve the LGTBQ" or "We don't serve black people" or "We don't serve Jews or Muslims" or "We don't serve those in a head scarf or a turban". Put it right out there with your hours of business and you're Open/Closed sign. Title that sign - "I'm a bigot, racist and feckless cvnt and these are the people I chose to not serve because my sky wizard and pea brains beliefs say so".

You can have a business and you can have beliefs - maybe just have the b@lls to show how narrow minded and ignorant you are - right up front, no guessing.

JMHO. A baker who chooses not to bake a cake for a gay couple is not someone I'd cross the road and pee on if they were on fire. The same applies to racists, bigots and the closed minded.

vvvv

They need to post a sign out front. Someone should not have to go inside, expecting someone to be gracious, courteous and accommodating, especially in the service industry, and then be treated rudely for no real reason other than ignorance, bigotry or hate....all learned.
 Viper1j
Joined: 2/6/2015
Msg: 64
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 6:16:47 PM
Exactly my point.

And if you FORCE them to make your cake, consume it at your own risk.
 feirene
Joined: 1/3/2017
Msg: 65
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Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 6:29:31 PM

I'm saying if you're Lesbo, (which, just between you, me, and the fencepost, I think it's a total waste of two perfectly good women) and you FORCE a baker to make you a cake for your lesbian wedding, you forfeit your right to complain if it tastes like stirfried chicken shit mixed with kitty litter.

Why not just go to a place that has made a niche market serving people that no one else will and let them rake in the dollars?

If I were in the business, I would be making wedding cakes exclusively made out of big d@cks, and laughing my way to the bank.

Trust me, the wife doesn't care where the money comes from.


Well yeah i do think these businesses should be boycotted. It's the sentiment behind what has happened, it's dangerous to real people out there and we know from history this stuff can escalate. Like people here in my country still think being PC is stupid but i've grown up and seen a lot of changes in my society just because people started being more considerate of others and respecting their feelings, this makes people feel safer and happier too.

But i'm gonna think about a video a i watched last week where they interviewed a white supremacist and then the black people he wanted to send 'home' (who were actually born in london and had generations of family been living there too) and the last guy said he wasn't concerned because he knew people would sort this stuff out and they were good at that.

Don't even know why i'm debating this stuff tbh. I'm not even learning anything.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 66
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Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/7/2018 6:50:32 PM
I see this the same way I thr BS that a few religious people tried to make out with fake news that there was a war on Christianity, same crap happens at Christmas, etc. it is total lies by people who are trying to use religion to fight dirty, the kind of people think they can fool this god they believe in to punish others while saving them while doing the same thing. Remember when they demanded they didn't have to fill a subscription or sell condoms, birth control pills, because they wanted to attack others. It was never, ever, okay to treat other people as less than yourself. If you can't make a wedding cake for a gay couple, then don't be a baker. I think this decision is wrong.
 Viper1j
Joined: 2/6/2015
Msg: 67
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/8/2018 3:37:51 AM
Which is like saying, "If if you won't make a shoe for amputee, then you shouldn't be allowed to sell shoes."

It's a fallacious argument. Not everybody wears the same size shoes, not every guy wants to take it up the ass.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 68
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Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/8/2018 6:06:16 AM
More inevitableness:

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/391249-tennessee-store-puts-no-gays-allowed-sign-back-up-after-supreme-court-cake-ruling

"A Tennessee hardware store owner is celebrating the Supreme Court's ruling in favor of a bakery that refused to bake a cake for a gay couple's wedding by placing a 'No Gays Allowed' sign in front of his store... 'Christianity is under attack,' Amyx said. 'This is a great win, don't get me wrong, but this is not the end, this is just the beginning. Right now, we're seeing a ray of sunshine. This is 'happy days' for Christians all over America, but dark days will come.'"

So ARE Christians all over America happy that the civil rights of gay people are being reduced? Not sure that lives up to the beliefs of the religion supporters in this thread, but then again, it's only the word of one man -- hard to say if he speaks for all Christians in this country, but any Christian that voted for Trump obviously believes this.

On a distantly related noted, most Fox News fans are Christian conservatives, so I'm not quite sure to make of their celebrations for the death of Anthony Bourdain ( http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/06/08/anthony-bourdain-cnn-host-and-celebrity-chef-dead-at-61.html -- check out the comments, which are very similar on NewsMax and Breitbart, all about how there's one less leftist in the world) -- most simply because he was on CNN, but obviously as a chef, he wasn't overwhelmingly political. But that's just the world we live in now -- good Christian people celebrating the suicides of people just because their bosses aren't conservative enough.

I understand why religion was given such strong Constitutional protection and there's no doubt many religious people have been undeservedly persecuted for their beliefs throughout the eons. But, with the possible exception of Jews (which is also an ethnicity), people aren't born into a religion. Many are indoctrinated into religions from birth, but any non-juvenile at any time can leave a religion, and almost no one can look at a person in normal dress and figure out that person is in a religion. Religion is nothing more than a belief system -- it's nothing like race, ethnicity or gender. There are certainly some religious people who argue that homosexuality is also a belief system so maybe it doesn't deserve any more Constitutional protection than religions do, but it's difficult to imagine anyone choosing to be an outcast and victim of discrimination and worse, plus there's a preponderance of scientific evidence suggesting homosexuality is biological, and if not fully biological, certainly developments of attraction in both homosexuals and heterosexuals is not something one can control -- it's largely a result of socialization and proximity. After all, don't many people end up marrying someone like the girl next door, if not actually the girl next door, despite billions of other options? Point is, homosexuality has a much stronger claim than religion for being something that needs government protection. And religion is basically a virus -- homosexuality is not going to spread (just become more visible as society becomes more progressive). Sure, there are plenty of "peaceful" religions at various times in their history that don't have much bigotry within them, but every religion will die if it does not develop new followers, so every religion has to spread the faith, which by definition is at least a slightly hostile act toward non-believers. I understand the Constitution gives religion certain rights, but like most things in that 200+ year-old documents, the concept has become somewhat antiquated and outdated, from an era when almost everyone believed religion caused the world to function. The RIGHT religion, of course.
 47Seagulls
Joined: 3/16/2018
Msg: 69
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/8/2018 6:28:21 AM

"A Tennessee hardware store owner is celebrating the Supreme Court's ruling in favor of a bakery that refused to bake a cake for a gay couple's wedding by placing a 'No Gays Allowed' sign in front of his store... 'Christianity is under attack,' Amyx said. 'This is a great win, don't get me wrong, but this is not the end, this is just the beginning. Right now, we're seeing a ray of sunshine. This is 'happy days' for Christians all over America, but dark days will come.'"


Sweet. So ignorance, hate, intolerance and a fake christian. You can't legislate to the ignorant fcks out there. Thank goodness he put a sign to show off just what an ignorant closed minded fck he is.


ARE Christians all over America happy that the civil rights of gay people are being reduced? Not sure that lives up to the beliefs of the religion supporters in this thread, but then again, it's only the word of one man -- hard to say if he speaks for all Christians in this country, but any Christian that voted for Trump obviously believes this.


There are good christians out there, the ones that support Trump and can't make a cake or sell a nail to a gay couple are NOT christians. Not even close. These also support the Roy Moore types. geez


On a distantly related noted, most Fox News fans are Christian conservatives, so I'm not quite sure to make of their celebrations for the death of Anthony Bourdain ( http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/06/08/anthony-bourdain-cnn-host-and-celebrity-chef-dead-at-61.html -- check out the comments, which are very similar on NewsMax and Breitbart, all about how there's one less leftist in the world) -- most simply because he was on CNN, but obviously as a chef, he wasn't overwhelmingly political. But that's just the world we live in now -- good Christian people celebrating the suicides of people just because their bosses aren't conservative enough.


Cool, show your ignorance from and centre there Cvntservatives at Fox. Breitbart had a full on white supremacist in Adolph Bannon . Fake christians at Fox "celebrating suicides of people just because their bosses aren't conservative enough", disgusting. All the fake christians on here must be celebrating too....like idiot April, AJ and a few others with shyt for brains. Fake christians

This is sad day. Makes a mockery of Be Best when you listen to Fox and the Cvntservatives that are Trump supporters.

You may understand religion Hawking. It seems more and more that the simple minded, bigots, racists, homophobes and uneducated are flocking to it and using it as an excuse to hate....hate someone/anyone.
 MachIMustangII
Joined: 2/16/2018
Msg: 70
Baker Wins...we all lose?
Posted: 6/8/2018 6:58:02 AM
"Maybe some of these closed minds feckless folks that can't make a cake for a gay couple should post outside their place of business just who they won't serve. "

>>exactly, like a water fountain that declares

Coloreds Only

"Right now, we're seeing a ray of sunshine. This is 'happy days' for Christians all over America, but dark days will come.'"

Someone needs to whisper in that person's ear, what group uses rainbows as a symbol. :) But seriously, you discriminated against a creation of God, and that's happy days for Christians? "What you do to the least, you do to Me".

its a damned slippery slope. I don't want a Christian Scientist employer to refuse paying for an employee's blood transfusion insurance claim on account of their religious beliefs, but I don't want a Jewish baker to be forced to make a cake celebrating Hitler's birthday, either.

and I agree with Viper--I don't want to eat food someone was forced to make :)
 potoata
Joined: 4/9/2018
Msg: 71
Baker Wins...we all lose?
Posted: 6/8/2018 7:13:45 AM
"""I don't want a Christian Scientist employer to refuse paying for an employee's blood transfusion insurance claim on account of their religious beliefs, but I don't want a Jewish baker to be forced to make a cake celebrating Hitler's birthday, either"""

That's the whole point. Its a balancing act. You know I really do not see this decision as a big deal. I don't think any Court would uphold a ruling that would not allow a gay person to shop in a store and buy an item like any other customer might. But requiring a baker to use his artistic ability to bake a cake is a different situation. It is a very rare situation where a service person or a professional is required to take on the account of somebody they do not want to take on. Nobody can force a lawyer to represent somebody they abhor (there are exceptions, like court orders)... so too many people are making too much of this case in my opinion. The no gay signs in my store will likely never fly.
 47Seagulls
Joined: 3/16/2018
Msg: 72
Baker Wins...we all lose?
Posted: 6/8/2018 8:02:56 AM

But requiring a baker to use his artistic ability to bake a cake is a different situation.


Um, what "artistic ability", he's baking a cake not painting a portrait - he's Joe the Baker and not Picasso. What artistic ability does it take to make a chocolate cake, pipe on a few roses and add "Congratulations Mark and Tony"?

I don't think this decision will be a big deal either, in the big picture. It just gives voice to the already bigoted, homophobic and racist.

I still think businesses should post signs - like Mach said "No Colored served here" has a historic ring to it....its just adding to it . Maybe a total drop down menu of who they won't serve, listed alphabetically....if those closed minded inbred sons of b!tches even know the alphabet.
 Viper1j
Joined: 2/6/2015
Msg: 73
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/8/2018 8:25:55 AM
**
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 74
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History
Baker Wins...we all lose?
Posted: 6/8/2018 8:28:36 AM
Seagulls
"I still think businesses should post signs - like Mach said "No Colored served here" has a historic ring to it....its just adding to it . Maybe a total drop down menu of who they won't serve, listed alphabetically....if those closed minded inbred sons of b!tches even know the alphabet."

I have noted that no comment has been made on the links i posted showing it aint just a christian thing. But thats fine. It just shows some are prepared to allow some to do things that others cannot.

Thats no aimed at just you but all those on here who are christophobic.

I see another cull of posters has happened. I'm shocked big jo from over here got emptied. He was my best sparring partner on here.

On the uk forums ive already told him to hurry back.

I've spoke to kj as well. Very sad the personal campaign which she showed me that was aimed at her.

The only person i hated was frank. Still do.
 Viper1j
Joined: 2/6/2015
Msg: 75
Baker Wins...Gay Couple Loses...
Posted: 6/8/2018 8:30:13 AM

"A Tennessee hardware store owner is celebrating the Supreme Court's ruling in favor of a bakery that refused to bake a cake for a gay couple's wedding by placing a 'No Gays Allowed' sign in front of his store... 'Christianity is under attack,' Amyx said. 'This is a great win, don't get me wrong, but this is not the end, this is just the beginning. Right now, we're seeing a ray of sunshine. This is 'happy days' for Christians all over America, but dark days will come.'"



The funniest part of that, is that homosexuals are the only group defined by their behavior. There are homosexuals of all colors, and most religions.

The only way this guy is going to know if someone is gay or not, is that he himself was getting pounded at the gay orgy last week. If he tried to kick somebody out of his store for being gay, they can just turn it around and say "the only reason you're doing this, is so that we don't take you out of the closet!" :-)
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