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 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 376
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Do nice guys finish last?Page 16 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)

Kind of a circular argument

I agree. Bucking that trend almost requires a guy to pay for a couple escorts to be arm-in-arm when he walks into a room, because women are freakin' magnets for attention that's taken away from them. Either they will think the guy is ugly and a fraud, or get jealous and believe THEY can be better for him than the gal he is chatting with.

Nice guys have enough confidence to enter a room alone, but nobody cares if they don't COMMAND attention somehow. This kind of Peac0cking seems lame on paper, but it does work in real life - to an alarming degree.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 377
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/2/2018 11:29:50 AM

Everyone has a different idea of what a "nice guy" is. Is he someone that would stop to help someone change a tire or is he a pushover that lets people walk all over him?

Well, my point wasn't about what a Mr Nice Guy was -- but that his argument was circular about one fitting Mr Nice Guy who can hardly get a date if any. "Women don't want guys who can't get dates." All I'm saying, is that's circular. It's just repeating it.

By what you're saying tho... A Mr Nice Guy isn't a guy who merely has 'nice' in a list of attributes a typical gal would agree with. A Mr Nice Guy is a guy who Projects himself & gives the impression to the girl that She could walk all over him. Many times people's view of the other Isn't accurate, as they're feeding off little info in-the-moment. Hence the term Impression (which many times are Hasty). Which is why people naturally put on a modified version of themselves to some degree, to someone new that they're attracted to. Sticking one's chest out, metaphorically speaking (or sometimes literally I guess - lol).

If a guy isn't Truly a Mr Nice Guy, he's not going to get the assumption he is/seems like a Mr Nice Guy most of the time (which turns off girls who are socially active good catches).

And I will say a guy shouldn't come off as the overly agreeable type. That will come across as Mr Nice Guy. And Mr Nice Guy doesn't necessarily let every guy bully him or anything. It's more focused on letting a gal walk all over him. He's a fish jumping out of the water, to jump on her boat to be filleted -- instead of being a Catch. It's about how he projects himself, naturally.
 TomásIasan
Joined: 5/17/2018
Msg: 378
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/2/2018 1:03:46 PM
The way I noticed it was a lady says she wants a nice guy and a guy says well I am a nice guy what's wrong with me? <----- Lady looks at it and says thinks that question right there. He is showing insecurity and he is looking for validation that he is nice a guy. Nice guys don't look for validation they just do nice things and are polite and respectful cause it's who they are. They don't whine about what they did or seeking your approval.

I see an old lady struggling with her walker in the slush and muck trying to cross the road to go to the store so I help her no thought she needs aide. A lady sees it and watches me I make sure she gets across safely and continue on my way, what does the lady do ask why did you help her? She looked like she needed aide? I am thinking did my good deed for the day, as a boy scout rule of thumb it made her one day that much better I hope. Standing in a lineup waiting to be served at the coffee shop, lady behind is upset saying stuff sounding she has a bad day I buy my coffee say the quarter is for the cashier and have her put the other $3.00 from the $5 towards whatever the next person is getting if she doesn't use it all rest is yours. I turn and leave with my coffee thinking hope that makes her day a little brighter.

Your heading back home and a third lady says hey can I borrow some money off you? No! She is thinking you a$$hole, I just wanted to borrow a few bucks to help myself. I know why she wants to "borrow" the money and chances are she will never pay it back anyways, had she been honest with her statement might have given her a few bucks to aide her but since she is selfish, and full of shit I treat her as such.
The last lady not seeing her own folly would say I am not a nice guy, where as the others would say I was so who really is nice and who isn't is perspective usually defined by who we are and those who look at us and what they see as a person who is nice.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 379
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/2/2018 2:23:58 PM
Why is being attracted to a guy because he has a nice job/money any worse than dating for looks? Those things may be the initial attractor but they aren't why a woman stays with a guy. Wouldn't it be nice if a woman would date Mr. Nice Guy even if he was both ugly and had a minimum wage job? The truth of the matter is you need 2 out 3. You need 2 out of physically attractive, good job/money and good personality. It has nothing to do woth "Nice" so let's just say Mr. Guy.

Guys have trouble with understanding the above because they don't often hold good job/money as equally important to physical attractiveness and personality.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 380
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/2/2018 4:34:36 PM

julystorm22
The truth of the matter is you need 2 out 3. You need 2 out of physically attractive, good job/money and good personality. It has nothing to do woth "Nice" so let's just say Mr. Guy.

Guys have trouble with understanding the above because they don't often hold good job/money as equally important to physical attractiveness and personality.

I would say that most guys do understand that. But I would go a little deeper. Money and or a good job isn’t going to make a woman love you. It may attract her, it may get her into your bed, but it won’t win her love and devotion.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 381
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Posted: 10/2/2018 5:11:08 PM

or get jealous and believe THEY can be better for him than the gal he is chatting with

I have absolutely never in my life had that thought...
if a man is with another woman....I don't think about him at all...


he truth of the matter is you need 2 out 3. You need 2 out of physically attractive, good job/money and good personality.

might be your truth....might be SOME women's truth....but it is definitely not every woman's truth...
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 382
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/2/2018 7:24:47 PM

attractive, good job / money and good personality >>

*lyrics - " Traveling the wind & laugh at the crowd, mmm the fool and me..
............... Howl at the moon baby, yell out loud, the fool and me..
............... And ohh oh, where ever we go ~ we keep the spirit free..

THE FOOL AND ME by Robin Trower ( this is rock n roll, check out the guitar work )
> turn it up^ ( a bit more please )
heart/ sun
 fullmoonguy2
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 383
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/2/2018 7:31:18 PM

The truth of the matter is you need 2 out 3. You need 2 out of physically attractive, good job/money and good personality
.


Guys have trouble with understanding the above


No, what guys have trouble understanding is why you spent 9 years of your life with a guy- based on what you have posted previously- who apparently only had ONE out of the 3, if you really believe they "need" 2.
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 384
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Posted: 10/2/2018 7:42:09 PM
^^^ It cut off half my post ... geezy peezy !!!!!

.... In my OP > Intelligence, great "personality" & a great sense of humor thrown in >> are FAR more important then being " attractive / with great job & lots of money ".

.. Those 3 superficial items ^^^ may tend to mask what someone is really like. In addition, they are often fleeting ( here one day, gone the next ) > especially in our ever - changing world.

.. Now this doesn't mean we should tolerate a " FOOL " ( hence the song ~ The Fool & Me ~ which, btw ROCKS BIGTIME !!! Great guitar work by Trower )

> One type of fool being ~ one who refuses to support him / herself, and a person with a horrible personality. After all, to share your life with someone requires serious love ~ dedication, devotion & hard work.

heart / sun
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 385
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Posted: 10/2/2018 10:18:06 PM

You need 2 out of physically attractive, good job/money and good personality.

... to get a girl. But it doesn't mean every girl just needs 2 out of 3. To be closer to the truth on that, it'd be more like you'd need to Solidly hit 2 out of 3 -- where the 3rd isn't that bad either... and assuming she's 100% single, it's a guy she feels comfortable to be around with, and not a stranger. It's the the latter parts that also get in the way a lot for guys who don't have much social connections.

Online makes one not a stranger, but it's social connection is loose, so the comfort-zone isn't necessarily so great for many and/or she's not 100% single because there's some better boys out there. To compete against active window-shopping, the guy needs more than being merely attractive enough in her eyes with a good enough job and a seemingly good personality.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 386
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Posted: 10/2/2018 11:05:38 PM

No, what guys have trouble understanding is why you spent 9 years of your life with a guy- based on what you have posted previously- who apparently only had ONE out of the 3, if you really believe they "need" 2.


Basically, two reasons.

The first was that he was only intended to be a quick rebound. I was heartbroken, my ex dumped me but kept phoning me to talk and hang around we'd end up sleeping together but I couldn't understand why he no longer wanted to be my boyfriend and a friend gave me the advice "the quickest way to get over someone is to get under someone else". I was a college kid at the time and took the advice. He was supposed to be the rebound guy plus the guy to make my ex jealous (it did work) but it backfired because I got pregnant. And then I'd figured I was stuck with him and thought I could make a cow's ear into a silk purse.

Self-esteem was a major reason. I didn't feel like I was going to ever find a guy I liked who actually liked me back.
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/4/2018 7:54:56 PM

Everyone has a different idea of what a "nice guy" is. Is he someone that would stop to help someone change a tire or is he a pushover that lets people walk all over him? There's nothing negative about being nice. It's a positive quality. I think people are misusing the term when they're trying to talk about someone that's overly agreeable.


Here's an example of something that happened to me tonight. My kids were with me for a few hours today (the divorced dad's just get a little bit of time thing). Anyway, I take them to swim class after dinner. My ex met us there so she could bring them home. It was our first time doing this. I kind of get along with my her even though I got hammered in the divorce (her attorney is a good liar) and I don't get to see the kids as much as I want to. We have some differences but we're civil. She picks up our daughter's school bag as we are leaving the pool area. It has to weigh at least 20-25lbs. I reach over as we're walking and take the bag off her shoulder. Then I hold the door open for her. After all the stuff I've been through with her, I still do that. And as I held the door I thought "I'm to nice".
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 388
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Posted: 10/5/2018 8:02:00 AM
No, you aren't too nice. You are setting a good example for your kids and that's extremely important. Kids are always watching the adults in their life and learning behaviours that will emulate in adulthood.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 389
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Posted: 10/5/2018 8:24:55 AM

She picks up our daughter's school bag as we are leaving the pool area. It has to weigh at least 20-25lbs. I reach over as we're walking and take the bag off her shoulder. Then I hold the door open for her. After all the stuff I've been through with her, I still do that. And as I held the door I thought "I'm to nice".


I don't think this is an example of being too nice.
This is just common courtesy and manners.
Unless of course you feel your ex is not entitled to common
courtesies and manners...especially in front of your kids.

I offer to help strangers with packages, books, cumbersome
loads, etc. I also hold doors open.

Sorry your divorce was so bad.
But being "civil" means being yourself for the most part.
Don't let someone else make you into a person you wouldn't
like to know.
 Tech30
Joined: 8/11/2017
Msg: 390
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Posted: 10/5/2018 8:53:00 AM
That isnt too nice my friend. Kill them with kindness. Show her that your so content in life that its no problem to do those little things to take a load off of her. Hold the door carry the heavy stuff and do it with a smile and expect no "thank you"s Even in todays climate where women scream for equality , fight the urge to show them what true equality is. If you let her carry bags or hold the door for you, shed think you were doing it on purpose out of spite.

She will feel worse if she sees you enjoying life because she will resent that you are so happy without her.
Every women wants to know their ex is miserable. But show nothing but contentment and happiness. Sure its also good for your kids to see, but its so sweet when you start to notice shes conflicted to see that youre so happy.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 391
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Posted: 10/5/2018 8:59:00 AM
What does equality have to do with opening doors?
Women have always had to fight for equality. From owning
property, to the right to vote, to the right to have bank
accounts and credit cards. Equality for women has nothing
to do with opening doors for women. Equal
pay for equal jobs, the right to be in charge of their bodies..
gads. You apparently have no idea what equality is if you're
equating it to opening doors with no thank yous.

People should open doors for everyone, because that's called
MANNERS.

And no not every woman wants to know their ex is miserable.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 392
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Posted: 10/5/2018 9:15:47 AM
I think some guys live in a really weird world.
They are the center of everyone's life - their ex's emotions center around them.
And all girls need to realize they are 'nice guys' and date them - no matter any other concerns like whether SHE'S attracted to him or not.
Doesn't that seem kind of silly to everyone?

I'm glad I don't live in their worlds.
I don't think about my ex 24/7. I have no concern whether or not he's miserable. I barely think about him 3-4 times a year, mostly to send him a school photo of our child or wonder if he'll send a birthday/holiday card this year.
I hold doors open if someone is right behind me - whether it's male or female, young or old. As 'boo says, it's simply good manners.
I'm a feminist - with the belief that women's work should be paid equivalently to men's work. (Yeah, I believe both men and women should have paid p/maternity leave). I remember my divorced grandmother not being able to get a credit card on her own - though she had worked for 40 years and had a guaranteed retirement. I remember my mother having to get my father's co-signature on her credit card - even though she made as much as he did.

Feminists come in various ilks but, for some men, they assume it's the reason they can't get laid.
After all - it couldn't be anything else about them. They are perfect, aren't they?

Feminism - the cause of ALL the ills of men's worlds. (Please note sarcasm).
 Tech30
Joined: 8/11/2017
Msg: 393
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Posted: 10/5/2018 9:27:35 AM
What does equality have to do with opening doors?

What it has to do with opening doors, is that it has mostly been a behavior that men do for women. Even such as opening a car door for a woman, and men seem to do it without much thought while women dont (yes some women do , but im talking about the rule not the exception)

Women have always had to fight for equality. From owning
property, to the right to vote, to the right to have bank
accounts and credit cards.

This is because when people were settling on the land, women didnt need bank accounts and to vote or own land. It was men who took care of all of that as it was families settling, there werent single women building houses and roads to help settlements. It wasnt until later when all that was tatken care of and life was easier and times were changing and people had money and could enjoy life better that there was reason for women to vote and have accounts. And there wasnt much opposition to it. Men voted to let women vote. Yay men! we rock!
You're welcome ladies!

qual
pay for equal jobs

We have that. We also have laws in place to make sure that men and women are paid the same for the same job! yay us!

the right to be in charge of their bodies.

Oh you are talking about the right to murder .... Well unfortunately not everyone believes women should have the only say in that since it took 2 to create a life or that a fetus isnt a human. Thats why its not an easy subject. I know all feminists want to kill, but not all women agree with that . YOu want a tattoo ? go ahead, no one cares.


You apparently have no idea what equality is if you're
equating it to opening doors with no thank yous.

Equality is many things and I know a lot about it . more than your narrow feminist view apparently.
I love how women will forget all about equality when it comes to alimony and custody of children ....

I love how women forget about equality when they punch a man and expect to be protected against retaliation.

I love how women forget about equality when they get a slap on the wrist for speeding while men have to pay and get points off their license.

and no, not EVERY women wants their ex to be miserable but many do. Again, im not talking about the exception. Im talking about the general rule.

You have no idea what equality is if you're still ****ing about the right to vote and equal pay. Why not try living in 2018 with the rest of us?
 SiennaBear2
Joined: 12/2/2017
Msg: 394
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Posted: 10/5/2018 9:34:05 AM

the right to be in charge of their bodies.
Oh you are talking about the right to murder .... Well unfortunately not everyone believes women should have the only say in that since it took 2 to create a life or that a fetus isnt a human. Thats why its not an easy subject. I know all feminists want to kill, but not all women agree with that . YOu want a tattoo ? go ahead, no one cares.

Well I mean, if you don't like abortion, don't have one or get anyone pregnant who will have one.
 flowersinthelake
Joined: 5/11/2018
Msg: 395
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Posted: 10/5/2018 9:38:11 AM

the right to be in charge of their bodies.



Oh you are talking about the right to murder ....


Straw man.


Well unfortunately not everyone believes women should have the only say


Her decision as what happens to her own body where it concerns the pregnancy that is occurring in her body is the only decision that matters. Full stop.

BTW, learn to quote others when you respond to them in a given post.
 Tech30
Joined: 8/11/2017
Msg: 396
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Posted: 10/5/2018 9:52:53 AM
I think some guys live in a really weird world.
They are the center of everyone's life - their ex's emotions center around them.
And all girls need to realize they are 'nice guys' and date them - no matter any other concerns like whether SHE'S attracted to him or not.
Doesn't that seem kind of silly to everyone?

Some women live in a world where they feel people care what nonsense they think.
I think some people totally missed the point of my post about the example of showing your happy and content instead of miserable.

Its not because the world revolves around men, its because in divorce or break ups , its mostly women that are more vindictive . Again not all but for the most part. Women in general want to know that they are better off and the man is broken . There is a lot of truth in getting the best revenge by living well.

As for niceguys. thats a small amount of men . Just like there are nice girls who act the exact same way.
Not to mention the women who cant understand why a man would reject them so they resort to calling them gay . Its not just men that act that way, but as a woman you dont see two sides, you just see yours.

Men are glad you dont live in our world either. Lots of women arent worth the trouble.

Do you open the car door for a man ever? I doubt it.

No one things of their ex 24/7 but the man posted that he has to interact with is. Its best to not show any weakness around her and to just show how great life is without her. WHy is that so triggering for some?

you're a feminist? wow what a shocker. Its not like anyone could tell from your men are weird and women are oppressed point of view.....

Feminists some in all kinds I agree, but most smart men know that none are worth dealing with.

Feminsts arent the cause of mens problems... most of the time feminists dont bother us at all. Feminists are their own enemy. Causing problems where there are none . They are their own hurdle to get over while the rest of society walks past them like a child at the mall having a tantrum on the floor
 hemingway234
Joined: 6/6/2015
Msg: 397
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Posted: 10/5/2018 10:04:22 AM
Having good manners, opening doors and pulling out chairs for women and being a gentleman is a good thing, and the vast majority of mature women appreciate it.
 Tech30
Joined: 8/11/2017
Msg: 398
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Posted: 10/5/2018 10:15:24 AM
Having good manners, opening doors and pulling out chairs for women and being a gentleman is a good thing, and the vast majority of mature women appreciate it.

Im sure most do. But men dont HAVE to do it and women shouldnt complain if we dont.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 399
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Posted: 10/5/2018 10:53:48 AM
Dang! I hate being a slow typist.
Anyway, after I figure out what and who you're quoting and rebutting in your more recent post, I may answer that.
But in the meantime...



Women have always had to fight for equality. From owning
property, to the right to vote, to the right to have bank
accounts and credit cards.

This is because when people were settling on the land, women didnt need bank accounts and to vote or own land. It was men who took care of all of that as it was families settling, there werent single women building houses and roads to help settlements. It wasnt until later when all that was tatken care of and life was easier and times were changing and people had money and could enjoy life better that there was reason for women to vote and have accounts. And there wasnt much opposition to it. Men voted to let women vote.


This kind of argument is circular (I'm sure there's a proper term for it).
For instance, you say that men took care of everything.... well, since women had no access to funds without some man giving them some... then, of course, men had to take care of 'everything'. Many did not do it very well.
It's like saying during the 1800s that slaves couldn't learn to read because slaves didn't know how to read.
Making it illegal for black people to learn to read and write reinforced the notion that Africans were inferior to whites.
(from Encyclopedia.com)
Preventing women from voting, reading, owning property, etc. was to keep them in an inferior position. As was illiteracy and lack of information.



the right to be in charge of their bodies.

Oh you are talking about the right to murder ....

Actually, women have historically had surgeries they did not want. It's still going on. My OB schedul3ed me for a C-section so he wouldn't be interrupted during a golf game. I didn't want it but wasn't strong enough to argue against him, my ex, AND my mother all at the same time. Similar to the Tuskegee Syphilis study, women have been subjected to unnecessary hysterectomies at a physician's whims. Historically, a woman's body was owned by her husband or father.


Well unfortunately not everyone believes women should have the only say in that since it took 2 to create a life or that a fetus isnt a human. Thats why its not an easy subject. I know all feminists want to kill, but not all women agree with that . YOu want a tattoo ? go ahead, no one cares.

*sigh*
Buy a clue.
Feminist here. But I don't want to kill... what are they called? Pre-born children? I'm all for letting fetuses develop into children but I certainly don't call women who have abortions (or other liberals) 'baby-killers'. As you note, it is a more nuanced controversy than that.
The arguments in the early 1900s against abortion and contraception were
(1) protect the unborn so it could develop into the highest level of life - a fully mature man (probably white) (from Dr. Hugh Hodge, 1869 as quoted by Carol Smith-Rosenberg in Disorderly Conduct. In fact, for a long time, women were seen as incubators of the miniature but fully-formed child.
(2) ensure that women performed their duties as wives and mothers.
(3) ensure the nation's ethnic character.
From Cicero -
"I remember a case which occurred when I was in Asia: how a certain woman of Miletus, who had accepted a bribe from the alternative heirs and procured her own abortion by drugs, was condemned to death: and rightly, for she had cheated the father of his hopes, his name of continuity, his family of its support, his house of an heir, and the Republic of a citizen-to-be."
. Please note, there is nothing about attempting to murder a child - all of the indictments relate to social standing. Historically, abortion was allowed until quickening (around 4th-5th month of pregnancy). These laws were related to the man's rights - to have an heir and to have an obedient wife. They were not for the benefit of the child. Ancient laws provided punishment (usually death) for a woman having an abortion (sometimes even if spontaneous) but the father could expose that very same child or commit infanticide. In other words, keeping the power of life and death in the hands of the male.


You have no idea what equality is if you're still ****ing about the right to vote and equal pay. Why not try living in 2018 with the rest of us?

Voting and equal pay, along with literacy are the basics of a person who contributes to society.
Why not try living globally with the rest of us?
When all people (regardless of sex, creed, color, national origin, etc.) have a voice in their own governance without hinderence - then I'll stop ****ing about the right to vote.
When all people (regardless of... etc.) are reimbursed equally or equivalently for the labor they do then I'll stop ****ing about equal pay.
When all people (rich or poor) have equal access to as much education, information, knowledge and wisdom as they can tolerate... then I'll stop...
Well, no - actually I'd probably start *****ing about space exploration and settlements.
 SiennaBear2
Joined: 12/2/2017
Msg: 400
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/5/2018 11:16:53 AM
Great post 2ufo.
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