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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Do nice guys finish last?      Home login  
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 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 401
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Do nice guys finish last?Page 17 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
I'm old.
I can remember when I couldn't take money out of our joint
checking account without my husband's approval.
I couldn't get a sears credit card unless he cosigned.
I did the same job as a man in my office and he got paid more
because "he had a family to support."
It wasn't until 1973 that woman in all states could serve on juries.
Women weren't even acknowledged in the Boston Marathon until 1972.
I don't see any laws limiting what men are allowed or not allowed
to do with their bodies.
That's what equal rights are...and it took until the 70's for women to
be able to do what men were born allowed to do.
Women didn't get these rights without ****ing about it or advocating for it.
And we still have to fight to make sure the right to make our own
decisions regarding our bodies is preserved.
What was the last thing a man had to fight for?

Boofarkinghoo to opening doors.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 402
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/5/2018 12:30:23 PM

I think some guys live in a really weird world.
They are the center of everyone's life - their ex's emotions center around them.
And all girls need to realize they are 'nice guys' and date them - no matter any other concerns like whether SHE'S attracted to him or not.
Doesn't that seem kind of silly to everyone?


I've never met a single person that thought that way. I think that's a fantasy in some people's heads.


When all people (regardless of... etc.) are reimbursed equally or equivalently for the labor they do then I'll stop ****ing about equal pay.


Who doesn't get paid equally? It's illegal to pay people less based on gender or race.


Feminist here. But I don't want to kill... what are they called? Pre-born children? I'm all for letting fetuses develop into children but I certainly don't call women who have abortions (or other liberals) 'baby-killers'. As you note, it is a more nuanced controversy than that.


The major problem with abortion is that women have all the power. What's stopping women from tricking men into getting pregnant and having total control over whether that baby is born or not? A woman could poke holes in the condom, lie about birth control among other things.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 403
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/5/2018 1:28:52 PM
Maybe a courteous man will bring his own condoms?
A smart man certainly will.


I've never met a single person that thought that way. I think that's a fantasy in some people's heads.

I'm not sure what you're referring to by 'that way'.
Are you saying that no one thinks of themselves as the center of their world?
I suspect that most people do.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 404
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/5/2018 1:53:58 PM
I think part of the reason Nice Guys finish last has something to do with a latent hate of White Male Privilege. Most of the guys crying foul about that kind of thing fit into a certain biological category, and most people that are not in that category don't give a damn because they have 'everything' - which in and of itself is a racist, classist, sexist assumption - but since it's bashing the 'Alpha' group - it doesn't matter. The power and possessions (and most of the azzhats) are in the hands of a fraction of one group of people, not all of them. Not even close.

The 'Haves' and 'Have Nots' are all based on our home perspective, so even drawing THAT line needs a step back to realize how objective - or biased - our perspectives may be.

People need to stop making victims and villains out of everyone they meet, and be a little more patient and attentive before leaping to conclusions and moving on.

I'd also like to say that in 1972, I was barely a year old, and am currently in my late Forties. Many of us in here have absolutely no clue what life was like before a lot of the civil liberties changes in the sixties and seventies, and frankly, we shouldn't be forced to re-live that perspective every day because people can't handle where we are at right now. They are NOT the same problem. They have grown and evolved, just like we and the rest of the world has done. Framing the 'issues' based on a generation ago is a lot like comparing aluminum foil TV antennas and four TV channels to the multi-channel visual media onslaught we deal with today.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 405
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/5/2018 1:59:30 PM

I couldn't get a sears credit card unless he cosigned.

That makes sense. They generally give credit to those that have a stable job.

I did the same job as a man in my office and he got paid more because "he had a family to support."

Ok and in the uniform services(fire, police) I did 10x more of the REAL work that we are sworn to do because the women generally didn't perform equally. In the academy they get away with doing "half push ups" and a lot of them figure out they can stay 2 yrs inside for each kid they have. Some have 3 kids and then end up avoiding hitting the streets for their whole career and get the same salary. Visit any police HQ and see the higher % of women officers with cushy jobs.

As for the more pay to support a family, now BOTH genders get paid less based on real wages( inflation factoring) because more labor available means less pay. Pure supply and demand. Now everyone is EQUALLY pissed off.

My brother said he hated hiring women at his big 4 accounting firm because he said they often cried when he had to fire them. He never had a man do that. He told me he should be paid extra for dealing with that shit. Lets take the doors off the women toilets as often you find in a men's room. Trust me you don't want everything equal.

It wasn't until 1973 that woman in all states could serve on juries.

That's good. I have spent the last 2 decades ducking jury duty. So have MOST men that I know. Your welcome to take my place next time.


I don't see any laws limiting what men are allowed or not allowed
to do with their bodies.


Look up man-spreading . Although not a legal (yet)issue there is a group of chicks going around spraying bleach on guys crotches on public transportation.

That's what equal rights are...and it took until the 70's for women to
be able to do what men were born allowed to do.

Congratulations, you get to rise early in the morning to go to a 50 hr work week and return home to eat bon bons with Maggie Bundy. There is progress for you!
Women didn't get these rights without ****ing about it or advocating for it.

Nations didn't become democratic and free without men(and some women) rising up against their tyrants. It was about time you did it , but with no risk of be headings.


What was the last thing a man had to fight for?

Wars, apparently competing in online dating, dress down Fridays(women dress down every day), custody court ,you name it.


The major problem with abortion is that women have all the power. What's stopping women from tricking men into getting pregnant and having total control over whether that baby is born or not? A woman could poke holes in the condom, lie about birth control among other things.


Well said. There is also women who actually try to get pregnant with sperm that wasn't inside them. Not sure how effective that is but I seen many reports /accusations of it. I am not a fertility doctor but that should be a crime regardless of how successful that is or not.

In conclusion: lets keep this thread non political..how about it? The people who aren't feminists or believe in equal rights don't wanna hear it and the ones who are know which arena to fight in and this here isn't the place for it. Now if it is date related , please by all means! :)

Disclaimer: even if I was a feminist I would say the above, wrong time and place. What does it have to do with nice guys finishing last?
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 406
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/5/2018 2:43:12 PM
Sears was actually doing you a favor. Them selling their second rate junk is catching up to them.

Think whatever you like, but I always thought that women should have equal rights all along. What I object to, is feminists getting in my face about equal rights. I didn't do it. I am likely, however, to come back at you for for something I had no control over.

Jury duty???? You really want to fight for the privilege of being underpaid for that????
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 407
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Posted: 10/5/2018 3:25:01 PM

In conclusion: lets keep this thread non political..how about it?


I'm not sure that's actually possible.

In my opinion/experience/yadda-yadda...
A lot of people don't want to take responsibility for the things that happen in their life (dating, work, not getting a raise, the courts, spilling coffee in the car, someone else's kids, dogs, cats, decisions) and, as they play 'pass the blame', a lot of it gets attributed to the 'bad guys' (i.e. liberals, conservatives, feminists, vindictive women, players, warmongers, hippies - or whatever they're called these days) who run or ruin our society.

So, the reason nice guys finish last is due to our mismanaged government. (sarcasm alert)

If you're (generic you) talking about social activities (like dating), then society has it's place in creating the mores, attitude and etiquette that we follow.
A few generations back dating was codified: you married who your parents wanted you to marry. Sometimes they would take your wants into consideration - but not always.
Last generation or so, things changed in that there was more freedom as to whom to date but the actions were codified (that must be the word of the day). Men invited and there was no 4th-base sex until you got married.
More recently the actions appear to be reversed - sex on the first or second date and then, if you think you're compatibl3e, then you get married or live together. If it doesn't work, then you get divorced and that's no big deal.

The problem, as I see it, is that currently society is changing so much due to more frequent international interactions on a personal level and amazing inventions that disrupt the dating laws we were used to even just a few years back.

No wonder we're all so confused.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 408
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Posted: 10/5/2018 3:53:41 PM

o, the reason nice guys finish last is due to our mismanaged government. (sarcasm alert)


Sarcasm aside there is truth in that but let replace "gov't" with the corporations. I am convinced there isn't one thing that is allowed or not in this country if it didn't benefit the big business and corporate elite. The corporations love feminists. More people to buy their products who don't need permission from a man and they benefit from the larger work force who they can pay less.
They benefit from the "nice guys" who can't hook up easily by increasing money spent on self improvement, etc. As long as our countries policies are dictated by corporate needs there will always be a social separation since that is profitable for them. Do you see them promoting world peace? Exactly, so last thing they want is national social "peace" among the population IMHO .


Think whatever you like, but I always thought that women should have equal rights all along. What I object to, is feminists getting in my face about equal rights. I didn't do it. I am likely, however, to come back at you for for something I had no control over.


I have no problem with equal rights. Society should give equal opportunity .My issue are the feminists that think we are ACTUALLY equal. Rights is one thing but lets not pretend that there are NO differences between men and women. Heck the smartest men and women (scientists, etc) know that there are differences, so why pretend otherwise? Just because the sleaziest people(politicians) say otherwise!

Also lets now call American feminism REALLY EQUAL. You can't have your cake and eat it (too). Although I don't believe in feminism(I am not anti it just don't pay attention to it, it don't effect me) there are countries like Iceland, Norway, etc where it really is equal so it is hard to be against it there. I respect that!
As for Jury duty, they paid you? Where I live you lucky if they ever pay you and the people who aren't smart enough to get out of it aren't anyone you would want to be judged by!
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 409
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Posted: 10/5/2018 7:59:46 PM

As for Jury duty, they paid you? Where I live you lucky if they ever pay you and the people who aren't smart enough to get out of it aren't anyone you would want to be judged by!


Yup! A WHOLE, WHOPPING, $38 bucks a day!!!! Apparently, minimum wages doesn't apply in our court system.

( Saying to the defense attorney that the defendant put himself under suspicion, by getting arrested, means something to me, gets me tossed off a jury real fast.)
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 410
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Posted: 10/6/2018 12:08:32 PM
$38/daily?
Wow! Here it’s $6 a day.
But you do get free parking downtown.
 TomásIasan
Joined: 5/17/2018
Msg: 411
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Posted: 10/6/2018 12:54:11 PM
So you should be paid for a free country? You know do your duty as a citizen screaming about all those rights of yours that should be followed, then don't want to be part of the justice system that makes sure you have those rights. Yeah pay me for it and make it worth my while? What an interesting thing to run from it probably takes away a from all that important stuff in your life, like you know t.v., riding a motorcycle, having sex. Think about that the next time a pedophile, serial killer, or some other criminal walks free cause just like you maybe the people who would have done the right job decided to bail on their duty as well as they weren't paid enough. Nevermind the child's life they could have saved, or the next victim they could have prevented nice ideology people have.
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 412
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Posted: 10/6/2018 3:21:06 PM
^^^ Really easy to live life-Don't break the law.

What I object to, about jury duty, is that I HAVE to do it, instead of working.

I got this funny little thing in my mailbox, called bills. Not one person will let me off not paying them. If I had the time and money, yes, I'd serve. But I don't and haven't, so I go skipping off to work.

We don't get free parking. Twixt gas, and parking, bring a lunch. Or miss a meal.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 413
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Posted: 10/6/2018 6:30:55 PM
I don't even know what I would do if I ever got jury duty. I live paycheque to paycheque and jury duty would mean losing income plus who would look after my kids for me?
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 414
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Posted: 10/7/2018 2:32:14 AM
*I don't even know what I would do if I ever got jury duty. I live paycheque to paycheque and jury duty would mean losing income plus who would look after my kids for me?

You really shouldn't qualify for jury duty. One way to solve multiple problems would be to restrict jury duty to people who don't work for a wage.
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/7/2018 3:40:49 AM

You really shouldn't qualify for jury duty. One way to solve multiple problems would be to restrict jury duty to people who don't work for a wage.

Cripes, thats all we need. A bunch of old retired white guys, deciding mostly poor peoples lives. NO Thanks. Juries are notoriously bad at deciding anything.
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 416
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Posted: 10/7/2018 4:30:19 AM
*Cripes, thats all we need. A bunch of old retired white guys, deciding mostly poor peoples lives. NO Thanks. Juries are notoriously bad at deciding anything.

Encouraging you to take a second look. A few things to consider:

As July noted, poor people suffer undue hardship for jury service.

Poor people tend to be more vindictive without regard to evidence. Poor defendants are usually better off with rich, old money juries. In the American military, enlisted accused have the option of having at least a third of their court martial be enlisted as well. They almost never choose that option. Military lawyers know that the accused is always better off with a panel of officers. Unfortunately, civilians do not have that option. They are stuck with whatever crowd of ignoramuses wanders through the door.

There are not as many of the idle rich. That means fewer juries... and as a result fewer trials. The reason that people get prosecuted for child neglect for letting their kids play outside is because they can always rope in 12 mindless clowns to sit in judgement over such nonsense. When you can only form so many juries then prosecutors will have to use them only for serious crimes.

Justice is a civic duty. Hourly workers do their duty by doing their jobs. The rich owe as well. Justice can be their contribution to society. Beats working doesn't it?

I'm not as concerned about the guys being white. I am very much concerned by them being old. Old people are driven by fear. Fear trumps reason and makes justice impossible. There needs to be some kind of age cut off. Maybe max age 40 or something.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 417
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Posted: 10/7/2018 5:32:42 AM
You know do your duty as a citizen screaming about all those rights of yours that should be followed, then don't want to be part of the justice system that makes sure you have those rights. Yeah pay me for it and make it worth my while? What an interesting thing to run from it probably takes away a from all that important stuff in your life, like you know t.v., riding a motorcycle, having sex. Think about that the next time a pedophile, serial killer, or some other criminal walks free cause just like you maybe the people who would have done the right job decided to bail on their duty as well as they weren't paid enough. Never mind the child's life they could have saved, or the next victim they could have prevented nice ideology people have.

That is like saying all people have a duty to vote but as long as 100% of the candidates running are total tools..count me out! (Republican here who thinks Trump is an A#$)
That being said the "pedophiles, serial killers," often walk free simply because of the crazy way our Justice system works, a combination of sloppy police work, and sloppy work of the prosecution, and the judges every 10 minutes telling the jury they have to ignore "the evidence". Retired cop here, been there and done that. Not my monkey not my circus NO MORE!
The system is broken , ONLY way I would be a part of the madness is to be payed. I used to like going to court because working nights meant it was overtime :)


Poor people tend to be more vindictive without regard to evidence.

True but the race of the jury also does influences outcomes. Every lawyer and cop knows that if they go to trial in the Bronx and Brooklyn that they will lose if they are representing big business or indicted law enforcement. That is why accused officers often are trialed upstate. In fact I have threatened to take big businesses to small claims court before. I always tell them I will take them to court in Brooklyn and not mediate. You will be surprised how fast they settle.

I agree that officers should ONLY be judged by those that understand the nature of the job. Sure that is bias but it is already bias when a jury is privy to the details from media.

It is sad because I used to be exempt from jury duty and then they changed the law to allow force us to be called for civil trials. Problem is often civil trials have a criminal element. I wouldn't be picked even if I begged to. I think last time the person suing was a convict lol.
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 418
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Posted: 10/7/2018 5:58:47 AM
*I agree that officers should ONLY be judged by those that understand the nature of the job. Sure that is bias but it is already bias when a jury is privy to the details from media.

I also agree but am not quite sure what would be the best way. Maybe expanding the powers that police departments have in dealing with rogue officers. Officers who work in Brooklyn should be judged by officers that work in Staten Island. You will probably never get a completely objective tribunal but you can do the best you can.
 Clytemnestra
Joined: 6/6/2018
Msg: 419
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Posted: 10/7/2018 10:26:24 AM
msg#416:

I'm not as concerned about the guys being white. I am very much concerned by them being old. Old people are driven by fear. Fear trumps reason and makes justice impossible. There needs to be some kind of age cut off. Maybe max age 40 or something.


"Old people are driven by fear"???

That's not been my experience. Most folks of a certain age have been there, done that and have shed most of the fears that plagued them in their earlier years.
JMO
;-)
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 420
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Posted: 10/7/2018 11:05:30 AM

I don't even know what I would do if I ever got jury duty. I live paycheque to paycheque and jury duty would mean losing income plus who would look after my kids for me?

I suspect you can get a waiver because of having children who don't go to school yet.


I agree that officers should ONLY be judged by those that understand the nature of the job. Sure that is bias but it is already bias when a jury is privy to the details from media.

That's why it is supposed to be a jury of our peers.
We all bring our own biases


Old people are driven by fear. Fear trumps reason and makes justice impossible.

A lot of people are fearful.
Most people are fearful of someone who is different.
I think it is people who isolate themselves.
Isolating yourself from others is more likely to make a person more fearful - whether that person is an elderly stay-at-home or a younger video gamer-in-mom's-basement.
But it is interesting.
At one point in jury duty we were told that as we wait in the corridor, lawyers will bring their clients then point at us and say 'that group of people will decide your future'.
A lot of clients then go for a plea deal. Who wants their future decided by a grumpy group of people who have been waiting around for hours?
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 421
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Posted: 10/7/2018 12:21:17 PM
416
Old people are driven by fear. Fear trumps reason and makes justice impossible.

Fear of what and how did you come to this conclusion?
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 422
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Posted: 10/7/2018 5:46:26 PM

"Old people are driven by fear"???



LOL, The older I get, the less I care what other people think, and fear?
I fear I may not have enough time and money to see ALL the places on my bucket list!
Oh wait a sec, I forgot. A week ago I was on the escalator at the Indianapolis Colts/Lucas Oil Stadium, going 2 stories UP, looking out over the city to my left and out over the playing field to my right. Whew! Gave me the willies!


That's not been my experience



Agree, Bingo!
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 423
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/7/2018 11:26:19 PM

The major problem with abortion is that women have all the power. What's stopping women from tricking men into getting pregnant and having total control over whether that baby is born or not? A woman could poke holes in the condom, lie about birth control among other things.

It's not a problem with abortion -- there's a Potential problem about the by-products of sex. Lying that one's on the pill when they're not, etc., as you point out. And potentiality for an abortion -- it's the woman's body; it's not a problem with abortion. Abortion allows a woman to be able to abort the growth of a zygote or new fetus from developing. There's no problem with abortion laws as far as not allowing the guy to successfully demand an abortion against the woman's wishes. Both sides of the political aisle would not wish that at all.

Analogy: The major problem with returns at clothing stores is that, if I give her a little cash to my GF to go to the mall to help her buy a shirt, and she lies to me saying she's not going to get a crazy party T-shirt, but she does with half my money and half hers -- *I* can't return it back when she lied to me. Therefore, there's a problem with these clothing store return rules. Maybe we shouldn't have 'em at all. ;)

I think part of the reason Nice Guys finish last has something to do with a latent hate of White Male Privilege.

I don't think one feeds off the other, but yes, you can see both taking certain parallels, in a Certain way. Notably the Mr Nice Guy upset/venting about not being able to get girls. Usually though, the talks about Mr Nice Guys center around the Actual taste of typical girls -- that no, they're not into the classical Mr Nice Guy, even though mom & aunt Rita would Love to see their boy be one, and their daughter meet one. When the rubbers meat the road though, that's not it. Like many things we're instructed on in the real world and what to look out for -- it's over-inflated and at least a bit skewed.

People need to stop making victims and villains out of everyone they meet, and be a little more patient and attentive before leaping to conclusions and moving on.

I agree. One should be grumbling & ticked when they see a guy who's smooth & obviously Not a Mr Nice Guy (nor the Polar opposite), and getting rewards from the dating scene because of it. Good thing though is, it's something one Can change, as opposed to skin color, facial looks, height, etc.
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 424
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Posted: 10/7/2018 11:32:48 PM
*Fear of what and how did you come to this conclusion?

Our steely nerved geriatrics aside, fear has long been known to be central to the being of old people. It sure hasn't escaped Madison Avenue. Practically every product or service marketed to old people employs some sort of scare tactic or appeal to insecurity. Whether it be "I've fallen and can't get up", "Life insurance exclusively for those 50 to 80", identity theft and the "dark web", you name it; all exploiting fear. Advertisers didn't all fall upon these messages by accident.

As elderly fear applies toward juries, the old fear the young and are frantic to lock them away to eliminate that fear. As already noted, race makes it worse. (It's no mystery that Fox News viewers tend to be racist AND old. Average age 72.) Still, I would argue that geriatric juries would prefer to lock up a young white man rather than an elderly black man because they fear youth more than race.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 425
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/8/2018 10:40:47 AM
Oops - double post.
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