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 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 426
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Do nice guys finish last?Page 18 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
I don't think elderly people have any more fear than younger people - it's simply different.
Older people fear physical damage while younger people fear not being acceptable to their group.
Sure there's ads for older people about their physical heath.
But there are also ads for the younger people that are all about social acceptance.
Younger people aren't terrified of breaking a hip and older people aren't buying all the right clothes so they'll fit in.
Maybe age fears youth because they remember everything they felt and did while youth fears age because it appears limiting.



I couldn't get a sears credit card unless he cosigned.

That makes sense. They generally give credit to those that have a stable job.

Didn't 'boo say she had a job? My mother had a steady job.
It was the assumption on the part of the issuer that no woman held a steady job.

Although I do like your thesis that it is corporations ensuring that 'nice guys' can't get a date. Does this mean I can tell a guy, "I'd love to date you but P&G won't let me. You'll need to wait until the market hits 23,014."?
 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 427
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Posted: 10/9/2018 6:51:04 AM

I couldn't get a sears credit card unless he cosigned.

That makes sense. They generally give credit to those that have a stable job.


I've had a stable job since 1969. I was actually working full time and my husband was
going to school when I was denied a credit card.
 spot4username
Joined: 12/15/2015
Msg: 428
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Posted: 10/9/2018 6:59:04 AM

I've had a stable job since 1969. I was actually working full time and my husband was
going to school when I was denied a credit card.

I am currently involved in a discussion about this in another forum. I believe that a lot of people have no idea what it was like. It didn't matter if a woman had a job or had a safe full of her own money. She could not get a credit card, bank account, car, house, etc without a male cosigner. Women were considered the property of their father until they became the property of their husband. This is not ancient history. It is recent history.
 Clytemnestra
Joined: 6/6/2018
Msg: 429
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Posted: 10/9/2018 7:11:25 AM
^^^and some don't care~

Sweet_Danimal:
I'd also like to say that in 1972, I was barely a year old, and am currently in my late Forties. Many of us in here have absolutely no clue what life was like before a lot of the civil liberties changes in the sixties and seventies, and frankly, we shouldn't be forced to re-live that perspective every day because people can't handle where we are at right now. They are NOT the same problem. They have grown and evolved, just like we and the rest of the world has done. Framing the 'issues' based on a generation ago is a lot like comparing aluminum foil TV antennas and four TV channels to the multi-channel visual media onslaught we deal with today.

SMH~
 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 430
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Posted: 10/9/2018 7:58:19 AM

I'd also like to say that in 1972, I was barely a year old, and am currently in my late Forties. Many of us in here have absolutely no clue what life was like before a lot of the civil liberties changes in the sixties and seventies, and frankly, we shouldn't be forced to re-live that perspective every day because people can't handle where we are at right now. They are NOT the same problem. They have grown and evolved, just like we and the rest of the world has done. Framing the 'issues' based on a generation ago is a lot like comparing aluminum foil TV antennas and four TV channels to the multi-channel visual media onslaught we deal with today.


I'd like to say everything you have now, regardless of civil rights or awesome tv's, came on the backs and hard work of people
before you. No one is asking you to relive anything. But have some respect for the history and the struggles people before you
went through to get to the point where we all are now. Nothing we have now came without someone taking a stand and doing
something out of the ordinary. It's easy for you to sit back and enjoy the spoils. Hopefully, nothing in your lifetime will be
a struggle for you.

Step the **** back.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 431
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Posted: 10/9/2018 12:15:27 PM

I'd like to say everything you have now, regardless of civil rights or awesome tv's, came on the backs and hard work of people

Not necessarily "hard" work (over used slang) -- more like a mass people coming together for the (good) evolution of Western civilization thanks to a lot of combined work in activism.

But have some respect for the history and the struggles people before you went through to get to the point where we all are now.

True. Putting things in perspective of how backwards it was, just a couple generations ago. Even when we had TV, power lines, cars, boats, Disney World, etc.

It's easy for you to sit back and enjoy the spoils.

I wouldn't call it spoils -- I'd call it more equalized, which is why people can over look it when they weren't living as an adult in any way, back then. Kind of like people living in an age without fridges which wasn't that long ago. Or going to the Moon without even a calculator! Slide rule? WTH?

It was like the stone age up until a few decades ago! :)
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 432
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Posted: 10/9/2018 2:54:48 PM

It was like the stone age up until a few decades ago! :)

Hey, THIS caveman still remembers party phone lines, long distance calls and having only ONE phone in the house - on the wall - with a rotary dial and a real bell in it.

I have a deep respect for people that spent their lives building and supporting this country - but they don't fall into one specific age or demographic. I also have a deep loathing for the cruel people people in this world who do nothing but fight to stay amongst the 'haves' at the cost of anything and everything else.

I have spent most of my working life doing two jobs or more simultaneously. When I was in college I had four jobs and a full credit load at the same time. It took twelve years to pay back the loans I had to take out to go to school. The current job I've had for the last two years is the first time in my entire life I haven't been strapped for cash or needed a moonlight gig to pay the bills. I have never owned anything close to a 'new' car. I pay my taxes in advance off each paycheck and get a dwindling refund every year. My back IS one of the hard workers who is out there making life work. I don't want sympathy. I don't demand more from others. I just want people to have a crumb of patience before judging someone by a category - and realizing what happened a generation ago simply cannot be handled in the same way today.

Being 'Nice' and 'Naughty' is certainly more complicated than Santa's gift list. At least it should be, if you have grown up at all.
 MeramecRiverRat
Joined: 10/12/2017
Msg: 433
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Posted: 10/10/2018 5:16:38 AM


But have some respect for the history and the struggles people before you
went through to get to the point where we all are now.


I see no reason to respect the "struggle" of a woman not being able to get a credit card in 1969. She was 100% safe from being drafted and killed in Vietnam. The men her age were drafted into wars (wars declared by politicians voted in by women), deployed, killed in combat, rained on by Agent Orange, and more. In any given hour, a USA vet commits suicide. Yet women complain they were victims of discrimination. The draft is the worst form of discrimination in history and this discrimination still exists. Men still have to register for the draft and women don't.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 434
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Posted: 10/10/2018 6:25:54 AM
That is certainly a good point.
 Carnival_Fishing
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 435
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Posted: 10/10/2018 7:10:35 AM
I agree with it being a good point. There are a lot of countries that have mandatory military draft, where all men have to serve in the military for a specified period of time. I don't see any women's groups protesting about being discriminated against, because they aren't being drafted into the military and possibly shipped off to fight wars.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 436
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Posted: 10/10/2018 8:40:22 AM
I like how guys who never had to worry about the draft always bring
up how lucky women are because they never had to worry about the
draft.

Who said all women were worried about the draft?
Who said all women would refuse to serve if drafted?
Interestingly enough, women were allowed to take the ASVAB test
back in the 70's even if they weren't allowed to be sent to war other
than as nurses or support personnel.

Yeah, sit down.
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 437
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Posted: 10/10/2018 9:03:09 AM
*Who said all women were worried about the draft?
Who said all women would refuse to serve if drafted?
Interestingly enough, women were allowed to take the ASVAB test
back in the 70's even if they weren't allowed to be sent to war other
than as nurses or support personnel.

It doesn't matter what all women wanted. The fact remains that no woman could be FORCED into military service. In 2016, the US Senate approved a bill to require women to register with Selective Service.

The draft really doesn't have much to do with your creditworthiness. The draft really shouldn't be part of the conversation.
 siisaa
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 438
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Posted: 10/10/2018 11:10:44 AM

The draft really doesn't have much to do with your creditworthiness. The draft really shouldn't be part of the conversation.


Tell that to the person who brought up the draft in the first place. It wasn't Boo.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 439
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Posted: 10/10/2018 11:52:43 AM

I see no reason to respect the "struggle" of a woman not being able to get a credit card in 1969. She was 100% safe from being drafted and killed in Vietnam. The men her age were drafted into wars (wars declared by politicians voted in by women), deployed, killed in combat, rained on by Agent Orange, and more. In any given hour, a USA vet commits suicide.



In 2016, the US Senate approved a bill to require women to register with Selective Service. The draft really doesn't have much to do with your creditworthiness. The draft really shouldn't be part of the conversation.


The Draft was VERY MUCH a real struggle in 1969 - just like voting rights and a lot of other stuff. If you can dismiss the Draft as a non-essential problem in modern times, then PLEASE - think twice about a lot of these 40 year old 'struggles' you decide to resurrect to prove a modern point. How many rules and laws have already been put in place to equalize the genders, races, sexual orientations in the last 40 years? The playing field we have right now is what exists RIGHT NOW - not what you grew up with, or refuse to acknowledge.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 440
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Posted: 10/10/2018 12:44:06 PM

The Draft was VERY MUCH a real struggle in 1969 - just like voting rights and a lot of other stuff.

I 100% agree with what you say. However, I think their point was, it doesn't "nix" the struggles of a woman not being able to get a credit card or a loan without a male co-signer. But yes, one should Not At All "pshaw" the draft issue about rights when it comes to non-world-wars like the Vietnam war, where one's Life is put at stake whether they like it or not.

As a side note about the draft: Personally, I think the draft should only be in order for a World War and declared by such with 2/3rd majority by Congress as a World War (not an Iraq, Vietnam, etc type war no matter how many troops we'd optimally need for a win).

That aside, no matter what is declared as kosher for a draft, I assume when there's a cohabitating couple, they'd be drafting the male before the female... and when drafting a (single) female, not putting her in combat for the most part would be how it'd actually play out.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 441
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Posted: 10/10/2018 1:24:28 PM

I see no reason to respect the "struggle" of a woman not being able to get a credit card in 1969. She was 100% safe from being drafted and killed in Vietnam. The men her age were drafted into wars (wars declared by politicians voted in by women), deployed, killed in combat, rained on by Agent Orange, and more. In any given hour, a USA vet commits suicide. Yet women complain they were victims of discrimination. The draft is the worst form of discrimination in history and this discrimination still exists. Men still have to register for the draft and women don't.


Oh, goodness. Such a typical 'nice guy' rant.

Having nothing to add to the debate regarding the history of a woman's credit worthiness, you decide that women should NOT be respected because she wasn't eligible for the draft. I can go off on several tangents as well....

Never mind that is was illegal for women to be on the front in a professional capacity - it's women's fault we weren't drafted.
Never mind that only about 25% of the US soldiers in Vietnam were drafted.
Never mind that the number of women forcibly raped in the US during the time of the Vietnam War was 6 times the number of fatalities.
Never mind that even though women were prohibited in direct combat roles, there were also female military fatalities in Vietnam.
Never mind that women now are permitted in direct combat roles and make up 15% of military combatants.
Never mind that in the 50s and 60s, women's voting rates were consistently 10% below men's voting rates AND (per a study done at the time:
The Michigan survey observed: “The dependence of a wife's vote on her husband's partisan predisposition appears to be one reason why the entrance of women into the electorate has tended to make little visible difference in the partisan distribution of the national vote.
. In other words, it was assumed and correlated that husbands got two votes - his and hers.

But, no, according to you, women don't deserve respect.

Next, you'll say that African-Americans don't deserve respect either. I mean, they've have social struggles and prejudice in obtaining credit as well.

If 'nice guys' think like this, then no wonder they finish last.
Anyone who has no respect for other people and the struggles they have undergone, doesn't deserve respect.


(Speaking as someone who's father served in the military from 1952-1976, died of a service related disability, and had the greatest respect for anyone who worked in whatever capacity they could. Speaking as someone who has served my country for 20 years.)
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 442
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Posted: 10/10/2018 6:06:52 PM

MeramecRiverRat
I see no reason to respect the "struggle" of a woman not being able to get a credit card in 1969. She was 100% safe from being drafted and killed in Vietnam.

Now this is the kind of crazy nonsense you get from far right radicals. The people who listen to InfoWars (and believe what they hear).

Item 1, as previously stated, that remark does NOT belong in this conversation. Period. At all.

Item 2, the person who brought it up wasn’t born until 1970, he was not even alive in 1969. If you weren’t there, if you didn’t live through it, you probably shouldn’t be making crazy statements about it.

I was there. I was in college, student deferment, and received a number in the lottery. 129. Not the kind of thing you ever forget. Ever. And I did later live through a year of 1A eligibility, and barely escaped being drafted. But that has absolutely nothing to do with women and credit and anything else being discussed here.

These are the kind of tactics used by the far right. If you don’t like the conversation, say or do something totally crazy and distract people.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 443
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Posted: 10/10/2018 6:24:39 PM

But, no, according to you, women don't deserve respect.

ALL Human beings totally deserve respect. What they don't deserve - is attitude. And bad assumptions. One bad flake doesn't have to ruin the whole cereal bowl, just pick the thing out and work with what you have.

What really bugs the crap outta me is this total demonization of ANY person, group or demographic that even has the appearance of not fully supporting someone else's agenda. "If you are not FOR us, then you are AGAINST us," kind of crap. It has totally replaced any kind of decent or skillful debate, negotiation or compromise. That is NOT a trademark of a civil society - it's a mark of a selfish one. Just because I stay silent to listen to both sides does not make me a freakin' enemy.

Being a white male does not mean I raped women during Viet Nam, doesn't mean I had controlling interest in Enron or Lehman Brothers, or voted 'For' some of the more hideous laws regarding abortion, tax breaks for the rich, or stupid voting regulations. I was Nine years old when Reagan was elected, and got shot. I barely even remember the passing of Nixon or Hubert Humphrey. I certainly don't have control over political decision making beyond my One vote - which is all that most really have.

Talk to me in a civil or friendly tone, and I just might have some ideas that could make a real difference -- label me the azzhole right away, and I will more than likely do something to live up to THAT label. That's not just about political leanings - it's everything. Treat me a like a potential rapist or abusive husband without even finding out my name, and just take a wild guess how engaged or interested I will be in YOUR life. This quiet guy at the end of the bar reading a book could have saved your life if you were choking, or being beaten behind some alley by your drunk boyfriend - but since the need never arose, I'm now the ENEMY?!? (Or more than likely, assumed to be a serial killer) Snarks breed and feed MORE snark.

Geez, there is a point when you have to stop and smell what you have been shoveling around, or more presently, what you have been forwarding thru Facebook from mysterious sources.

Nice guys don't need hero worship to feel good about themselves - but they also don't need to be sh1t on with the baggage of a thousand bad encounters.
 Clytemnestra
Joined: 6/6/2018
Msg: 444
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Posted: 10/10/2018 7:53:29 PM
msg#442:
MeramecRiverRat
I see no reason to respect the "struggle" of a woman not being able to get a credit card in 1969. She was 100% safe from being drafted and killed in Vietnam.

Now this is the kind of crazy nonsense you get from far right radicals.


I don't think it's far right OR far left radicals who do this kind of crazy talk. Just some guy 'talking through his hat'~
(Probably wishing he'd grow up in the late 60s/early70s)
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
Msg: 445
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Posted: 10/18/2018 10:59:24 AM
1) looks are highly important if your purpose in dating is to impress other people, or to be titilated in the bedroom (I used to date a woman out of my league who settled. I had to initiate the sex, but if you're great at foreplay, you can get your partner interested. but nothing beats looking at your partner, fully clothed, in a restaurant, and already been energized, invigorated, and feeling lust and passion). Not everyone seeks feeling alive and energized by the appearance of a beautiful face and figure. but when they get a new hottie at work...they feel that feeling they've missed :)

2) as for women and finances, i remember going thru old resumes from my father's company in 1971. applicants listed marital status and draft status. Both were important then, but of course between the world wars and Vietnam, men didn't worry about the draft but women still had to "land the right man" to have access to financial secuirty--no fault divorces are useless if you aren't allowed access. things have changed for the better.

3) for what its worth, ladies, Norweigan guy doesn't just man-splain the ladies :) Guys posting here get the same treatment. look thru the archives, you'll see i'm correct. its just the way he is.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 446
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Posted: 10/19/2018 6:48:40 AM

Now this is the kind of crazy nonsense you get from far right radicals. The people who listen to InfoWars (and believe what they hear).
Now now Henry. calm down. In this case , I don't agree with you and you know when I do I let you know. You are kind of taking it personally that someone from my "generation" could think that ,since they didn't go what you went though. That is BS.


Kids from my "generation " grew up with the constant reminder of "what if?" since our parents and older relatives were drafted. There presently isn't a draft in the USA but every decade there is talk of reinstating it, although the military top brass wants a professional military instead. The fact remains, EVERY high school male knows that Selective Service system is basically signing up to go on record for conscription. They did back when I was in school. I had an uncle(disowned) who ran to Canada to escape the war. My father was at Fort Dix he was "drafted"(kind of) in the time between Korea and Vietnam. I say kind of because he gamed the system. He knew if you join up you stay in less time than the required draft.


"The Selective Service System is an independent agency of the United States government that maintains information on those potentially subject to military conscription. "..read that and weep. As long as it EXISTS, that should tell you something.

Secondly , NO ONE should be respected for the struggle to get a credit card! Go back and read how odd that statement is. It the tool of the bank to make profit and put you in debt and back in the 70's layaway was WAY more popular anyway .
That being said...being turned down for a credit card Probably isn't a personal rejection or discrimination. Corporations loved feminism, they profited from it after-all.

But perhaps their statisticians formulated a calculation that women weren't staying long in the work force or in stable jobs,etc and were considered more risky? Credit card companies make decisions based on calculative risks. Not politics! sheesh

Again, as I said this stuff should be in "off topic". Talking politics will NEVER end well in a dating forum.
 Tech30
Joined: 8/11/2017
Msg: 447
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Posted: 10/19/2018 7:41:46 AM

I don't think it's far right OR far left radicals who do this kind of crazy talk. Just some guy 'talking through his hat'~
(Probably wishing he'd grow up in the late 60s/early70s)


Couldnt respond to the other thread anymore when you asked about me not trusting women married or not so ill do it here.

You take things out of context so no wonder your are confused and need people to explain things to you.
Taken in the context of the original post in that thread, yes I stand by not trusting women. A married woman going around befriending men and exchanging numbers? no way. IF they are ever alone together and the guy rejects her, she can run home and accuse the guy of trying to rape her.

Its not that I dont trust my wife, because I know she wouldnt do that.
But i have no reason to trust women I dont know. Trusting women today can lead to being accused of things that can ruin your life.

And since im married i wont be trusting single women wanting to be friends. Its why I stay away from the single women I work with. Some of them used to come into my office and one would rest her head on my and get really close. I put an end to that fast.

Another would always have some reason to touch my hands. Again ended that and made sure I got a camera in my office.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 448
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Posted: 10/19/2018 9:30:51 AM
How many women do you suppose falsely set up men to accuse them of rape? Is this a big fear for you? I don't know the bigger picture here, but I wouldn't give a man my number for a friendship without a husband/wife knowing. Now if it was a business dealing then that's a whole different deal. Personally I woundn't see a reason to make friends with a total stranger giving him my number, who knows what is going on in this context.
 bearcat44
Joined: 10/24/2014
Msg: 449
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 10/19/2018 10:15:17 AM
To Endless Summer Nights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVXdxaaRiAU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pPGijYBaVE&t=95s
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 450
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Posted: 10/19/2018 10:16:53 AM
*Secondly , NO ONE should be respected for the struggle to get a credit card! Go back and read how odd that statement is. It the tool of the bank to make profit and put you in debt and back in the 70's layaway was WAY more popular anyway .

The most important point made so far. We have a woman here who is indignant that we aren't honoring her for her role in re establishing debt peonage. Men, as a group, are not going to honor her struggle because men, on the whole, avoid that struggle. Men save and invest. Women spend and consume. Who do you think carries the great bulk of consumer debt? Hint: It isn't the evil, one vote patriarchs like Danimal. Any experienced salesperson, when dealing with a couple, sells to the woman because women BUY.

To be fair, Joe also noted that this woman really didn't do much to get her credit card. Growing the hair on her arm pits or whatever she thought she did to bring the finance industry to heel wasn't what changed everything. The financial industry noticed all of the women who were clamoring to sell their futures at a discount and they simply accepted the offer.
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