Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Do nice guys finish last?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 beercookies
Joined: 5/24/2012
Msg: 26
view profile
History
The notion of nice guys is cheap, paperback fiction.Page 2 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
Nice guys are typically manipulative, centerless ciphers. A good person is good, not for show or reward, but as a principle based on their values.

Nice guys , who calls themselves that? People who want excess credit for bare minimums and to leverage it into “I am entitled to the most attractive because I lack horrid qualities.”

If there is the same for women, same applies, but I don't hear this that much- “I am a good gal” biz. Maybe its to do with chastity, call other girls sluts “but I’m a good girl...”

The entitled (to happiness) men brag of not having the worst traits men can have, the women do the same with what used to be seen as positive about women- purity and discrimination. Now, that is seen as prudish and high maintenance, fallen out of favor in these times where porn is seen as mainstream.

Nobody is entitled to happiness and dates. You have to make the effort, and can improve chances, make it happen sometimes, but that is due to luck too. Sometimes there just aren't enough perfect candidates left.

Sometimes you are limited in options, even if your expectations are reasonable. But then, some people get this “ it is unfair” mentality. What is unfair? That you don't have a SO? The ones that do may be unhappy or cheating or bored. Perfect love that endures is in the minority.

Everybody thinks there is some ultimate partner out there. There are attractive people, but they may not be perfect partners, there may be average looking people who may be good partners, or the reverse. You have to judge your criteria.

Being solo can be the better option vs thinking a SO changes your life for the better.
I haven't experienced this, I am the same person, but I have been negatively influenced. I suppose it is possible I can be changed for the better, and that is an exciting thought but nothing to feel entitled to. I don't need it to be the case, but in the best case scenario, a ltr does change you for the better, vs have no effect or worsen you as a person.

That is my benchmark, am I a better person for having known this person? It is a bit loopy to apply but it’s something I consider of past and present people, from friends to SOs or family. Surprisingly, even difficult people or conflict can still make you better- usually with family- you are forced to commit to the relationship, bad or not, and can discover tolerances and depths you don't with acquaintances.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 27
view profile
History
The notion of nice guys is cheap, paperback fiction.
Posted: 8/2/2018 11:05:56 AM

I've dated both and at least the bad boys are honest.

I think the "bad boys" can be straight-forward about it. It goes a long way. In the book "The Game", a magazine writer who he himself was a Mr Nice Guy learned how not to be -- said being upfront & honest goes a long way. The irony is, you don't have to lie to women to get them in bed. It's related to the classical situation of the frustrated guy who "just doesn't care anymore" about dating, then suddenly he can get girls' #s, action, etc.

I've dated a number of "nice guys" who really weren't that nice, at least not as nice as they thought they were.
No backbone doesn't mean you're nice. Being a doormat doesn't mean you're nice.

To be fair, especially to the gals who can gravitate to guys a bit more on the bad-boy side -- many times they'll frustrate the heck out of the Mr Nice Guy, so he has room to complain. That said, no sympathy toward him. A common scenario is where both are in the 'wrong'. The gal walks all over him because he's too-nice, and him thinking he bends over backwards as standard-ops is supposed to garner a pretty lady's interest (as grandma would tell him). If perpetuated, bottled up frustration can understandably come out, but give reason for said gal to not feel guilt about walking all over him. OR, like OP's friend's scenario -- he'll just continue to follow her as a friend for 2 years, liking that she gives him the time of day, hoping she'll cum around (and she won't). :)

But there are guys who are Faux Nice Guys, like there's false impressions in the beginning with lots of people. Usually it's a simple "he seems nice" before you get to know him, which is their intro-front, which everyone pretty much has to some degree. The faux Nice Guy is much like "he seems to be doing well in life" but you find out he's in-between jobs and doesn't have that much. Or "she seems stable" but you find out she's on psych meds. Stuff like that in all categories.

If "nice guys" are jerks and "bad boys" are jerks, then what kind of guy is left?

First, the whole "nice guys are jerks" doesn't add up. It's horrible stereotyping, because just about everyone puts their best foot forward in the beginning. Thus certain jerks can come across as not nice when they seemed that way. A Mr Nice Guy is someone different than merely that -- that he gives the vibe of being a pushover, a doormat, and what he says & does follows thru on that. But regardless: Mr Nice Guys & Bad Boys -- what else is there? A guy who doesn't project the vibe of sucking up as if he's an ex-bf trying to win back his ex-gf (Mr Nice Guy), nor a guy who's a d!ck.

Nice guys who are hot get women. And what's hot for one woman isn't hot for another.

I agree that hot guys who are nice get women. Of course, having the quality of 'nice' embedded somewhere in a list of attributes doesn't get you labeled as "Nice Guy". But even if you were, and you were hot -- yeah, you will still get women. Looks dominate. Most "Mr Nice Guys" aren't solidly above average or better in the looks dept.

And I'll say that looks isn't relative, but sure, there's variance -- like good looking vs hot with many when mall-watching. I think what is more variant than look variation though is impressions a gal may get off a guy when it comes to possibly labeling him as Nice Guy in her own mind. It can be pretty solid & true, but many times he's not Mr Nice Guy or Bad Boy... but his Style of look + intro demeanor makes Her think/assume he's a pushover, when he's not. That's why I remind myself (and other guys) that being seen as being on the "Mr Nice Guy" side of the field is many times Assumptive before even getting to you know you at all on a date or anything.
 mahwahgirl339114
Joined: 10/31/2017
Msg: 28
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/2/2018 11:25:24 AM
OP she said she likes you BUT. That's all you need to know. She's not interested and it has nothing do with you being nice or not. I've met nice men that I'm not attracted to and I've met nice men that I'm MADLY attracted to. Please stop speculating and cut your losses.
 sun___flower
Joined: 5/8/2015
Msg: 29
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/2/2018 2:21:04 PM
GTO was deleted again?
 siisaa
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 30
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/2/2018 2:29:22 PM
^ that's what I noticed too. Why, of all people, would he be deleted? He's one of the most level-headed and rational posters here, even when people disagree with him. Same with Ssm/south_city. Hopefully GTO deleted his own account and is just taking a break from the forums.
 sun___flower
Joined: 5/8/2015
Msg: 31
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/2/2018 2:40:22 PM

Hopefully GTO deleted his own account and is just taking a break from the forums.

I don't think that's the case. He was deleted not long ago (in February, given his re-join date.) I think he was deleted again. I think Henry has GTO's email address; maybe Henry could write to GTO and ask him what happened.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 32
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/2/2018 3:01:34 PM

The entire "why don't women like good guys?" predicament has been argued to death.

Yes - the topic has regurgitated itself in here several times. Do a search and you'll have enough reading thru Christmas.

A man could be nice as pie and respectful to women but if he's unattractive, obviously out of shape, awkward, boring, has no backbone, financially irresponsible/unstable or lacks confidence, then he'll be dismissed in favor of someone who is more exciting with a good mouthpiece...

I'd like to point out this list is NOT cumulative -- it is an 'OR' list -- not an 'AND' list -- it only takes one bad egg in the mix to spoil the omelet...
A man could be nice as pie and respectful to women but if he's...
Unattractive OR
Obviously out of shape OR
Awkward OR
Boring OR
Has no backbone OR
Financially Irresponsible OR
Unstable OR
Lacks confidence
then he'll be dismissed in favor of someone who is more exciting with a good mouthpiece...

You read it that way, and then you realize just how thin the herd of potentials has really become. Being a gentle man is something every woman wants --- it's just the package they want it to arrive in is very, very specific.

Girls want a bad guy who is only good for HER...
Guys want a good girl who is only bad for HIM
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 33
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/2/2018 7:06:39 PM

GTO was deleted again?


Probably because of his posts from the Off Topic section. Lots of arguing between the left and right wingers and lots of deletions result. I stay out of that mess.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 34
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/2/2018 7:30:42 PM

sun__flower
I think Henry has GTO's email address; maybe Henry could write to GTO and ask him what happened.

I just sent him an email, will report when I hear back.

cooldog65
Probably because of his posts from the Off Topic section. Lots of arguing between the left and right wingers and lots of deletions result. I stay out of that mess.

Yeah, most likely. I stay out of there as well. Just raises my blood pressure, and does absolutely no good. No one posting in Off Topic is ever going to be persuaded to change his / her mind.

Now, back on topic.


Endless_Summer_Nights
She said she likes me but it wouldn't be fair to continue then one or both of us gets hurt if she moves. She said I'm to nice for that and deserve better. Something else she mentioned during the conversation is she probably would have continued dating me if I wasn't so nice because she wouldn't care as much.

OP, you need to go read, read again, then read yet again message 14 from NG456. You are simply not what she wants. If you were, she would be trying like hell to cement the relationship BEFORE she had to move. If she’s got a year to work on the relationship, and she actually WANTS a relationship with you, she would be doing everything in her power to make that happen. Jeez, a year from now the two of you could easily be married and facing this together.

You have to face up to it. She doesn’t want what you bring to the table. Sorry.
 sun___flower
Joined: 5/8/2015
Msg: 35
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/2/2018 7:42:22 PM

I just sent him an email, will report when I hear back.

Thank you Henry.


In order to maintain the highest quality forums you are restricted to having no more than 2 of the last 10 posts on a thread.

Since 2 of the last 10 posts are yours you can not post to this thread.
 ThePig0fYourDreams
Joined: 7/29/2018
Msg: 36
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/2/2018 7:44:22 PM
When a woman says "you're just too nice, you deserve better", there's a good chance you just weren't assertive enough.

However, all may not be lost here. Call her up and say "hey, would you still think I'm too nice if I told you how much I want to hogtie and skullf*ck you??"

It's worth a shot. You have nothing to lose.
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 37
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/2/2018 8:26:56 PM
Different day, same old argument.

Everything that did happen, will happen again, EXCEPT you are there.

Your choice- keep locking horns, or go find another game. I quit the game, and made my life simpler.

Proceed on.
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 12:13:28 AM

I think your situation's different than your friend's.

Your friend: She's not that into him, very possibly not just because he's "so nice". It happens all the time with guys, where, on the attractiveness level, she could do better -- but he's one of the Nice Guys and he appreciates just being around her and gives her attention, sooooo, she takes advantage of it.

Your situation: You kicked it off fine. She probably got that refreshing "Good Guy" feeling around ya. Sweet. But after contemplating things being away... her Real feelings how she feels about guys sinks in. He's Nice. He's there for me even though I just met him. But I'm not into that, especially not now.

She lost interest. It wasn't like she was going to move in 2 months. Even if she were, if she liked you, she wouldn't be like that. She likes a chase, at the end of the day. You're not it, is my guess. So she kind of gave you a BS response.

I would have just called her out -- not angrily, but called her out on it. As, no, I don't understand what she's saying -- it's basically BS. My guess of what she is Thinking is: "I'm not into Nice Guys, sorry. If you weren't, you could bend me over and peel down my panties and pound me silly... but, you're not that kind of guy and I wish there were more like you out there. But I'm not in the mood for nice, kind guys like you, at the end of the day. I'm really into the guy who wants to bend me over and is a "catch" -- not a guy who's a fish jumping in my boat. Sorry. Good luck in your search!"

PS: It's not because she's moving in the next year or so. She has mixed feelings. She likes and appreciates the Nice Guy in spirit, but, sexually wants a guy who's doesn't exude that. Not all women are like her... but there's at least a Little bit of that in many gals out there.


In the case of my friend, I think she likes the attention. They both play the game. He won't hear from her for awhile then gets a bunch of texts when she knows he's dating someone. He's not keeping a seat warm for her but won't say "no" if he's available and she ever follows though on an offer. It's pretty much turned into a game. He just sits back and watches it play out. He recently called her out on it. He pointed out that she wouldn't be dealing with the BS that she does if they were together. She agreed.

As for my situation. I told her to be honest as we started the conversation. I let her know that I didn't care if she told me she's not into me. No need to sugar coat it. I also told her to tell me if there is something about me she doesn't like. Maybe something that I don't see and I can correct it. Not for her, but for myself to be a better person. She told me a number of times that it's not me. It's her situation. I have pre-teen kids so I wouldn't more if I was dating someone that had to leave the area. Do I believe what she said? It goes either way. Some of it makes sense but... I don't totally believe it. There are plenty of fish so on to the next one.

The word a lot of woman use when they describe me is sweet. I'm really nice to them. I'm not an ***hole to people unless I need to be which is extremely rare. I tend to be attentive, helpful, I give a fair amount of compliments. I let a woman know that I appreciate her but I don't get carried away. I have another side too. I can make anything sound dirty and sex is important to me but that comes with time. There has been times when it happened on the first or second date but I don't mind getting to know a woman and letting things fall into place as she feels comfortable.

Years ago I knew someone who was a contractor. A lot of the guys that worked for him were kind of on the rough side. They either just got out of jail, no license, heavy drinkers, into drugs of a combination of these. He would occasionally hear one of the guys yelling at his girl on the phone. At least once per week. He didn't have a license so she had to pick him up. One day he asked her why she puts up with that. Her response was "You don't know him like I do".
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 39
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 7:12:38 AM
Good news and bad news to the OP.

The bad news is ...She probably wasn't into you, or met someone else, and gave you a lame excuse. Giving the "nice guy" excuse when it's not the real reason just adds fake data to "nice guy" controversies and arguments.

The good news is...From reading your posts, I don't think you're a "nice guy." That is, if I don't have you mixed up with someone else here. I think you're the one who posted awhile back you receive unexpected nude pics, and unexpected first date sex sometimes? IIRC you're that poster? True "nice guys" usually don't get much of that. And IIRC you said that you're looking for a LTR but don't turn down first date sex if she's hot to trot, and you're attracted. That isn't being a nice guy, at least in my book. That's being a normal guy. A nice guy probably doesn't get the opportunity for first date sex, and if he does, he misses the signals or flubs it somehow, or even worse, passes on the opportunity because he "wants to get to know her better" ...and wonders why she seems to lose interest after that...and then he complains why women don't like nice guys.

I'd lick your wounds and move on, and don't let the dreaded "nice guy" label cast negativity on your search.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 40
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 7:22:48 AM
cooldog wrote:
Probably because of his posts from the Off Topic section. Lots of arguing between the left and right wingers and lots of deletions result.
Still, even over there, GTO's style is pretty non-controversial. I've butted heads with him over in the Off Tropics and his schtick is intellectual, not bombastic. I left for a couple weeks and things seem to have gotten nastier here tbh, and numerous folks bounced. I also noticed someone bumped my old cheating thread and then mysteriously disappeared....gotta wonder if that's an anonymous, passive-aggressive response to my arguments against a certain clique here, which was happnin' at about the same time. In politics it's called opposition research, and when you start doing that type of stuff, it's admitting you got nuttin' lol. I will leave it at that :)
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 7:58:28 AM

The good news is...From reading your posts, I don't think you're a "nice guy." That is, if I don't have you mixed up with someone else here. I think you're the one who posted awhile back you receive unexpected nude pics, and unexpected first date sex sometimes? IIRC you're that poster? True "nice guys" usually don't get much of that. And IIRC you said that you're looking for a LTR but don't turn down first date sex if she's hot to trot, and you're attracted. That isn't being a nice guy, at least in my book. That's being a normal guy. A nice guy probably doesn't get the opportunity for first date sex, and if he does, he misses the signals or flubs it somehow, or even worse, passes on the opportunity because he "wants to get to know her better" ...and wonders why she seems to lose interest after that...and then he complains why women don't like nice guys.

I'd lick your wounds and move on, and don't let the dreaded "nice guy" label cast negativity on your search.


Yup... those posts were from me. I never looked at it that way. Thank you for allowing me to shed my nice guy image!!! :)
 patchmanjoker
Joined: 7/28/2017
Msg: 42
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 8:13:29 AM
After doing some research and thinking back to some of my schooling. It appears that women tend to gravitate towards guys who are less "nice" when looking for short term dating but like "nice guys" for long term dating. In today's dating climate people tend to look at dating as a short term thing that can build into something more if the relationship progresses. In the past people used to look at dating more as a way to obtain a long term partner. I also believe that women who have been hurt feel more comfortable with guys who are less nice because if the relationship does not work out, it softens the hurt due to being less emotionally invested. So basically, if fun is the main goal, "nice guys" probably will finish last. It makes sense if you really look at it.
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 43
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 8:34:34 AM

MachIMustangII
Somewhere there's a scientific study that suggests when she's ready to settle down with kids, however, she realizes she's going to need that nice guy to be a daddy, and there's his chance to finish in last place.

I think you meant to say, “to finish in first place”. But you are correct. Women want someone exciting to date, and then the solid steady plodder to be the daddy and provider for their kids.

I once saw a program where they went to a night club and asked women to participate in a study. They did a cheek swab to determine where they were in their cycle, and a full body scan to determine the percentage of flesh exposed by their clothing. There was a very strong correlation, women who were in the most fertile part of their cycle had the most exposed dress. Very interesting.


TPOYD
When a woman says "you're just too nice, you deserve better", there's a good chance you just weren't assertive enough.

However, all may not be lost here. Call her up and say "hey, would you still think I'm too nice if I told you how much I want to hogtie and skullf*ck you??"

It's worth a shot. You have nothing to lose.

You know, when I was younger, I did try that. Not exactly those words, but close. I don’t recall that it ever worked, but it damn sure made me feel better.

WTH??? Pig is gone again?!?!
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 44
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 8:40:27 AM
Yeah, I've gotten the "nice girl" label a few times. A couple guys basically told me that I'm too nice of a person to just sleep with, they told me they are not looking for something serious and don't want to hurt my feelings. To me that translated to I'm boring and not attractive. Its a real kick in the teeth to be told I'm too nice.
 Clytemnestra
Joined: 6/6/2018
Msg: 45
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 8:52:38 AM
msg #44:
Its a real kick in the teeth to be told I'm too nice.


No one has ever told me I'm 'too nice'~

(cackle,cackle)
 TomásIasan
Joined: 5/17/2018
Msg: 46
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 9:08:45 AM
Actually that is not what their saying you see all the things you say are unattractive in a man, well from a man's point of view you have exactly everything we avoid in a woman. You need to reflect on how you present yourself and you behaviour as well as body language.
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 9:27:26 AM

Yeah, I've gotten the "nice girl" label a few times. A couple guys basically told me that I'm too nice of a person to just sleep with, they told me they are not looking for something serious and don't want to hurt my feelings. To me that translated to I'm boring and not attractive. Its a real kick in the teeth to be told I'm too nice.


If I say that to a woman (and I have), I really do mean she is to nice to just sleep with. And not in a bad way. I've dated woman that I had a good time with but I didn't see them as someone I'd want for a long term relationship. And then there are men and women who just want to have sex then move onto the next one. Those guys probably found that your a great person and thought high enough of you to not want to just get some and go.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 48
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 9:38:14 AM
This is crazy talk. Of course some women want low lives, maybe they are too, but a normal woman wants a nice guy. Who wants a douche bag? Not me.
 TomásIasan
Joined: 5/17/2018
Msg: 49
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 9:42:42 AM
You see the meaning behind it now Julystorm you are too nice so the guy who is also too nice matches you. Refusal to deny the truth on the undesirable male who is too nice is not even intelligent for you say okay. He just told you what no opinion that would help but a supportive statement same as you do. If a person can't give constructive criticism in a relationship to you then you and they can't grow and improve your lives. You are to busy being nice....
 TomásIasan
Joined: 5/17/2018
Msg: 50
view profile
History
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/3/2018 9:48:04 AM
NY there is a difference between being a douche bag and give constructive criticism toward a person. I have never insulted or was ever a douche bag on here unlike the mouth that says the word fairly loosely. I have given her constructive criticism ways to improve herself and how does she react, she holds until she can't take it no more and doesn't even learn from the experience. You state those opinions up front and criticize in a constructive way so people can look and say you know what maybe I am missing something she is in denial and refuses to look at herself. When she finally looks she says okay and admits there is something there she needs to address that is called progress she is trying that in itself makes her more appealing progress is more attractive then denial.
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Do nice guys finish last?