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 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 76
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Do nice guys finish last?Page 4 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)


You need to get it through your head that they have a pre-written script before they even have met you, with 1001 escapes clauses.

All you can do is change yourself and develop a better picker so you choose more wisely.



The big problem is that sometimes a person that shows interest in you is someone you know is really above what calibre you can probably get and you know that but you try that much harder because it feels so good to have someone like that interested in you. You often really don't have a real chance with this person but the remote possibility makes you hope.

I spent most of my teens and early 20s meeting guy after guy who was interested in me but though I'd give many a chance I was always disappointed. Meanwhile, there were always guys I was interested in that were never interested back, they were either into my friends or somebody else. Finally I met someone I liked who appeared to like me back and I got my hopes up and of course I got dumped because he didn't really like me. And then when I started dating 7.5 months ago again I ran into the same problem. Quite a few disappointing first meetups, most of which I wasn't super excited about to start but I was hoping someone surprised me but I declined meeting any of them again and all of them were still interested which really made me feel bad. Three guys interested me. Guy #1 we had history and I wanted a relationship and he just wanted sex and told me he was still really into his ex. Guy #2 I thought we hit it off but he dumped me pretty quickly to get back with his ex. Guy #3 I tried to keep casual just because I figured if I asked for more he'd bolt but he ghosted me too. So I'm at the point where I want to just throw in the towell. I know I haven't really been at it long enough this time of round though, you just have to keep getting back up on that horse. I'm taking a lityle break now though.
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 7:59:04 AM

She. Lost. Interest. Period.


It's okay if she lost interest but she seemed like she had a lot of it up until that point. We went out a few times before she went away. She drove 40 minutes to see me one of those nights so I didn't have to drive more after an 80 minute round trip to drop my kids off. And... she grabbed the check when it came. That was date #2. I wast starting to think she was a considerate person who's not just out for herself.


She blocked you. Let that be a sign to Wake Up, if her being weird when coming back from her parental trip didn't turn on the light bulb of the real reason she wanted to Cut. It. Off.


I have plenty of life experience to generally be untrusting. I try to give people the benefit if there is doubt but I look deep into things. And I'm usually right. I already figured something was up when I didn't hear from her much while she was away I gave her plenty of opportunity to tell me if she wasn't interested but she went with "it's not you, it's me" story and stuck with it. I thought she could have been long term but in the end I really don't care. She wasn't my ideal match but I went with it because I thought she had a bunch of good qualities. It's very hard to find a perfect match.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 78
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 11:21:38 AM
Why would anyone waste so much time on someone who has moved on?
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 79
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 11:41:00 AM
Because its hard to get over someone who you really like. And you like them for good reasons.

Not everyone gets a ton of dates. Not everyone has experienced being with someone they liked that often. Its easy for some people to say there's so many fish in the see or that the right person will come along eventually but for some people that's not likely the case.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 80
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 12:17:21 PM
Endless, if you saw traits in this woman that weren't surmountable, so there's no bothering to talk the incongruities over, wouldn't you mention this break in time was a good time to break it off? I could hypothesize all day long about what brought it to this, but without knowing her and the situation, one thing could be that she picked up on your "she's not the one" vibe. Whatever it was, she determined it wasn't a good relationship to stay in. I think time for growing together is mostly done when you're older, so why talk about adjusting a relationship. You just cut bait.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 81
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 12:19:14 PM

It's okay if she lost interest but she seemed like she had a lot of it up until that point. We went out a few times before she went away.

It's great when a gal goes from 0 -> 60. It sucks and is confusing when a gal goes from 60 -> 0 like she did. You check your pockets -- "Whoah, whoah whoah -- wait a sec -- what did I do?" is our first thought. You didn't do anything wacky/weird that threw her off, out of the blue because she lost interest out of the blue. So you can ironically find solace in that.

You were in what I call the "pre season" of Dating. You're not an item, and it lasts as long as 5-7 dates usually. It's the first handful of dates that set the tone, and determines if things are going to "stick to the walls" -- even if one or both isn't relationship-hunting at all. Sometimes, as in this case, the gal is really interested -- but out of nowhere it deflates.

It sucks + nothing wrong with feeling WTF about it. The key is, they're going to BS you about it. And much of the time, it's going to come off as Genuine. And in a way it truly is -- they're BSing themselves. I've been in both boats. What we need to learn is that at the end of the day, we need to take a step back.

It's like a story problem where Sally goes to the market and buys X/Y/Z, and you have to do a little math. But if the story problem's describing Sally's hot body, and how the bikini top she's wearing shows off her supple, delicious breasts -- while her jean cut-off short-shorts show the bottom half-inch of her ass cheeks -- simple arithmetic becomes a lot harder, doesn't it? :)

Nothing wrong for slipping into that for a moment -- it's natural. But at the end of the day, we need to take a step back and be able to do that simple math. In your situation, it's simple math -- but what furthers the problem is that it's too Humbling. It makes us feel like a loser if a girl's going to BS in a genuine way after going 60 -> 0 like that. We want to believe it's some special Different situation, that we are a great catch that she would like to have, but the timing was just wrong. But that's ALSO what She wants to convey to you to, as we all hate giving that not-interested-anymore speech. As you point out, she exposed herself at the end about when she comes home, assuming you had your kids when you didn't -- she was just looking for an excuse. That, in a nutshell, is how she was about EVERYTHING, ending it.

The whole moving-in-a-year is a BS reason not to see you anymore, as if she's not going to date anyone (LOL!).Again -- she's OBVIOUSLY going to be dating other guys. She's going to have penis in her vagina -- no "jerk" required. She's going to walk away from more than one guy, and she's going to go on several dates in a row with a guy happy as a clam, too. Your situation was actually SIMPLE. Basic. But not emotionally, tho -- which is why it seems more complicated than it actually is (see story problem analogy).

In the end, you did nothing wrong in terms of offending anyone or throwing them off, as far as dating-rules are concerned. However, what you should instead evaluate, to maximize your dating experiences, is not to come across as Mr Nice Guy. My example response to her in a post or two back -- which IRL would probably be broken up into chunks on a phone convo -- was about demeanor. It means a lot. You don't want to be the caterer who lays out the red carpet for the gal. You don't want to be the fish that jumps in the boat, from out of the water, asking to be grilled. Although you don't want to play games and be the opposite (nor she) -- you do want it to be a two-way street. Although with enough dating experience, every guy is going to run into something similar to your situation.
But the guy who is Mr Nice Guy runs into a situation like yours far too often.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 82
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 1:10:15 PM
A guy is too nice? Being too nice is an excuse by douchebag misogynists to not put effort in. I have heard women say, I met this great guy, he's so nice or nice to me. I've never heard a woman brag and say, I met this great douchebag, and love that he's a big zero.
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 1:37:01 PM

Why would anyone waste so much time on someone who has moved on?


I was all set the night we had the conversation. I'm not losing any sleep over this.


Not everyone gets a ton of dates. Not everyone has experienced being with someone they liked that often. Its easy for some people to say there's so many fish in the see or that the right person will come along eventually but for some people that's not likely the case.


Your right! I date a lot. Sometimes I don't feel a connection when I meet a woman and sometimes she doesn't feel one with me. Or both of us don't.


Endless, if you saw traits in this woman that weren't surmountable, so there's no bothering to talk the incongruities over, wouldn't you mention this break in time was a good time to break it off? I could hypothesize all day long about what brought it to this, but without knowing her and the situation, one thing could be that she picked up on your "she's not the one" vibe. Whatever it was, she determined it wasn't a good relationship to stay in. I think time for growing together is mostly done when you're older, so why talk about adjusting a relationship. You just cut bait.


I think a perfect match is very rare. I'd probably be single for the rest of my life if I keep waiting for it. I've had two long term relationships (5 and 13 years). Aside from the problems that developed that lead to those ending, the women were a pretty good match for me. They had the look that I'm attracted to, good personalities, we had fun together and we didn't expect a lot. It was all about enjoying each other's company and letting the relationship grow from there. You might say "You found your matches before" which is true but it's different now. The 5 year was from when I was 18-23. The 13 year started when I was 24 (she was 20). I think it's harder as we get older. The conversation about who pays on a date is close to 75 pages long. Everyone has their own opinion. That's okay. Back when I was getting into those two relationships, nobody cared who paid. There was no keeping track. We just have fun. A lot of people have been burned in relationships so they have walls up. I do it too. So most people are looking at the new person they meet and wondering what him/her is trying to get. I could go on with examples but it's just different now. So I know I'm not going to get a perfect match so I let some things slid. Things that I won't let slid is if she smokes or does drugs. Not my thing. For the woman we are talking about, her pictures seem to be a few years old. I remember seeing them at least 2 years ago. She mentioned gaining weight so that's why she looked a little different in person. It was about 35lbs. She had a lot of good qualities so it was okay. I'm not perfect either.


It's great when a gal goes from 0 -> 60. It sucks and is confusing when a gal goes from 60 -> 0 like she did. You check your pockets -- "Whoah, whoah whoah -- wait a sec -- what did I do?" is our first thought. You didn't do anything wacky/weird that threw her off, out of the blue because she lost interest out of the blue. So you can ironically find solace in that.


You nailed it perfectly!!! That's exactly what I was thinking. And your right about her dating. She's not going to be going without. Her profile still pops up as a match. It looks like she's on here everyday. Towards the end of our phone conversation she suggested to let her know if I want to get together for a movie or something. No... that's okay! I'll pass.
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 84
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 2:02:01 PM
Women are not losing interest out of the blue. It's a process of slowly seeing incompatibility. There's no point to mentioning what those issues are most times. It's not going to change anything.
 dragonbytes
Joined: 9/15/2015
Msg: 85
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 2:32:12 PM

Do nice guys finish last?


I always try to finish last, I thought that was a good thing?
 siisaa
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 86
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 2:43:25 PM

Not everyone gets a ton of dates. Not everyone has experienced being with someone they liked that often. Its easy for some people to say there's so many fish in the see or that the right person will come along eventually but for some people that's not likely the case.


I agree July. It's easy for me to get dates but harder to meet a man who'll I have a mutual connection with AND who I'm actually attracted to. It hurts when I find that and then it ends. I'm also not of the mindset of "there'll always be someone else." I'm a person who values quality > quantity and I don't care for meeting a lot of strangers. I much prefer connecting with a particular man, building on that and cultivating our relationship rather than going on a bunch of first dates that lead to nothing.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 87
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 2:47:50 PM

I think a perfect match is very rare. I'd probably be single for the rest of my life if I keep waiting for it.

Good news is, nobody needs a perfect match to have a great Relationship leading to a good marriage. And you don't even need to be relationship-hunting either (usually backfires). Same goes for dating -- you don't need to pitch a perfect game to get a gal who Actually Likes you. In fact, when you're finagling with a gal who does Actually Like you, you can throw some bad pitches and still come out with a win. If you have to throw anything close to a no-hitter -- you mine as well be a guy trying to get their Ex back. No sense of barking up those trees in the dating scene.

You nailed it perfectly!!! That's exactly what I was thinking. And your right about her dating. She's not going to be going without. Her profile still pops up as a match. It looks like she's on here everyday.

Exactly. It's not a "I guess what she was saying wasn't Totally true" -- it was pure BS. :)

Towards the end of our phone conversation she suggested to let her know if I want to get together for a movie or something. No... that's okay! I'll pass.

Quite possibly a sympathy outing -- or just her liking the idea in the moment, but wouldn't want to later. That said, it sort of ups the probability of her wanting FWB, and the probability if handling it a different way when she brought up the lets-part-ways speech, that it could have been steered into FWB if done a certain way. But at the same time, for me, I would have too much disdain toward the gal underneath it all to try to make it flow in Any direction when she's giving me a pure BS lets-part-ways speech.

Women are not losing interest out of the blue. It's a process of slowly seeing incompatibility.

Not in Relationships -- but it certainly can when you're not even Dating yet, but are in the "pre-season" of Dating -- during the 1st handful of dates. Happens a lot. Probably the most common example is a (wanted) Ex coming back into the picture out of the blue -- emotions shift swiftly. But it doesn't have to be like that, of course. A gal or guy can just suddenly not feel it about the other, as they weren't really feeling it before but came across that way (and merely liked hanging out with the other).
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 88
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 4:06:40 PM
NG,You're not back to that, it's not a date, thing are you. Hold on, let me get my laughing emoji I can see the conversation you'd have with Sally. NG: (on first date), lets go back to my place. Sally: I don't do that on a first date. NG: Then you're in luck, because this isn't a date!
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 89
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/5/2018 6:10:26 PM
July I have been an obsesser from hell, you have probably not ever been as bad as I have been back in my crazy days. The fact is, while we need time to get over it, unless it was a long term relationship where the hurt is deep, it was just something that didn't work out, so don't hang onto it. The quicker you find something else to do, and stop letting it get to you, the faster it all goes away.

Look at the title of this thread. Nice guys don't finish last, come on, sometimes, heck most times, things don't work out. Nice, lots of people are quite nice, they still have to go through stuff that every one else has to. I am not being harsh or rude, it's life, sometimes it sucks.
 hemingway234
Joined: 6/6/2015
Msg: 90
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/6/2018 5:41:06 AM
What "nice guy" really means is, a man who is not intuitive and does not understand women.

So yes, if you don't know your subject matter, you are likely to have problems.

A few nice guys will get lucky though, from time-to-time, and get a date on occasion (even a blind squirrel can find a nut once in awhile), or even a short term relationship.

But mostly, they suffer a lot of rejection and pain in their love lives.
 hemingway234
Joined: 6/6/2015
Msg: 91
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Posted: 8/6/2018 6:01:51 AM



I know a woman who's single. She's friends with a mutual guy friend who's been trying to date her for over 2 years. He's a really, really nice guy. If I had a female friend who was looking for a boyfriend and for some reason I didn't want to date her, I'd definitely suggest him. She knows he likes her and they've talked about it a number of times. She'll send him "good pictures" and they hang out once in awhile. She ends up dating azzholes that treat her like sh*t then she complains about it. She'll stop seeing the guy then go out with someone else like that. Wash and repeat. He's pointed out that she could have had someone that would have treated her great but she keeps going after guys like that so she shouldn't complain.


- in this case, she probably is not attracted to him. What nice guys don't understand is, her love level is not yours. He might love her, but she only sees him as a friend, but he can't understand that. He does not see the light. He should only date women who like him, and it's better if they like him first and a lot - that way he has better odds of getting a relationship and not living a quiet life of desperation like he is now.





For me, I met someone from here a few weeks ago. We have a good time and get along great. She went from saying she missed me and couldn't wait to see me again one day to being distant and texting to tell me she wants to talk to me about us the next. That was while she was away visiting family. I gave her a call tonight to see what was on her mind. She has an elderly family member who's health is declining so she might end up having to move in the next year or so. She said she likes me but it wouldn't be fair to continue then one or both of us gets hurt if she moves. She said I'm to nice for that and deserve better. Something else she mentioned during the conversation is she probably would have continued dating me if I wasn't so nice because she wouldn't care as much. That was a facepalm moment. I understand what she's saying but... I just shake my head.

So, do woman really want a nice guy who treats them well or are they more attracted to the guys don't care and won't treat them good?


- hmmm.......well, there could be any number of reasons her interest is fading.....might be your fault, might not be, I would have to have more info. But her contemplating moving to take care of a elderly family member could be legit.

She could also have issues, maybe she was hurt in the past? We don't know everything about her.



Or maybe you were a little too easy to catch. Playing hard to get can be helpful (which really means not moving too fast). Many guys fall for women quicker than women fall, so they are not on the same wavelength, and smother the woman. This can confuse the woman and turn her off. Go a little bit slower to prevent this......no gifts before she's in love, don't call and text a whole lot in the beginning, call primarily for a weekly date. It's better if love is a slow build up.

This stuff only works for sane women who are attracted to a man. You have to have the correct ingredients to work with.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 92
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/6/2018 10:45:37 AM

Maybe she should consider getting a job as an escort. That way, she can get all of the sex she desires, make some extra money, and not worry about the lack of a relationship.
I have a couple MGTOW friends and they say that a large % of the younger escorts/sugar baby types are single moms trying to make ends meet. One is in a rural area and so I guess it that case it doesn't matter that she may know everyone in town because he has no problems getting..um..female attention. Actually this particular MGTOW says rural areas are better because everyone is poor and so escorts/SBs are cheaper than cities/urban areas.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 93
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/6/2018 11:53:30 AM

- in this case, she probably is not attracted to him. What nice guys don't understand is, her love level is not yours. He might love her, but she only sees him as a friend, but he can't understand that. He does not see the light. He should only date women who like him, and it's better if they like him first and a lot - that way he has better odds of getting a relationship and not living a quiet life of desperation like he is now.


It sounds like she's only attracted to "bad boys" that treat her like crap. I would just stay away. Run and don't look back.
 patchmanjoker
Joined: 7/28/2017
Msg: 94
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/6/2018 12:54:37 PM
To shed some light on this conversation, Christopher Hitchens had a lot of good statements about modern feminism and how it helped give birth to the "victim" mentality that eventually spread to men as well. As someone who was in college in the 90s, there was a big push by many women declaring that they did not want the "typical" man anymore. They wanted a "friend first" type guy that was not the sex hungry hunter type that was seen as ideal in the past because these types of men were the "abusers". So, men started to change their approach to demonstrate that they were not the aggressive alpha type, which led to false representation to gain female favor and flew against the natural attraction rules. Long story short, the women actually remained attracted to the more aggressive men even though they were being told that these men were bad, and many men started to forget how to assert themselves the way men traditionally did when approaching women. This problem is still lingering today and now the men are starting to hang onto the poor me status that has produced things like the MGTOW movement. This whole "nice guy" phenomenon is more complex than many realize.
 SiennaBear2
Joined: 12/2/2017
Msg: 95
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Posted: 8/6/2018 1:04:01 PM
Men will basically do anything to increase dating/mating chances. As women changed with feminism men adapted to atleast pretend to be what is desirable to get short term mating opportunity.
I think victim mentality comes from capitalism more than anything else. As it braught feminism and selfish attitude towards others as well as entitlement.
 patchmanjoker
Joined: 7/28/2017
Msg: 96
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Posted: 8/6/2018 2:06:25 PM
^^^^^^
I think the problem grew because the men started to adapt but the women did not. The women changed in theory but not in practice. This led to both men and women being more conflicted about what women really want. When you add the phenomenon of instant gratification and quick fix thinking, the emphasis is increasingly pushed toward the short term so things like character and honesty start to take a backseat anyway.
Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/6/2018 5:03:40 PM

What "nice guy" really means is, a man who is not intuitive and does not understand women.


I guess I lose the nice guy title again. So what do you call a guy who is kind, considerate and thoughtful when it comes to women. He's not someone that treats them badly.


- in this case, she probably is not attracted to him. What nice guys don't understand is, her love level is not yours. He might love her, but she only sees him as a friend, but he can't understand that. He does not see the light. He should only date women who like him, and it's better if they like him first and a lot - that way he has better odds of getting a relationship and not living a quiet life of desperation like he is now.


Possibly but he's better looking than some of the other guy she dates. And one really treats her bad and she knows it but she'll jump if he wants her to be available.

[quote ]She could also have issues, maybe she was hurt in the past? We don't know everything about her.

Or maybe you were a little too easy to catch. Playing hard to get can be helpful (which really means not moving too fast). Many guys fall for women quicker than women fall, so they are not on the same wavelength, and smother the woman. This can confuse the woman and turn her off. Go a little bit slower to prevent this......no gifts before she's in love, don't call and text a whole lot in the beginning, call primarily for a weekly date. It's better if love is a slow build up.

Her ex-husband drank himself to death (really, he did) and a boyfriend after him wasn't very good to her.

Things progressed naturally. We messaged here for a day then exchanged numbers (her suggestion). I asked about getting together so we did that two days later. We went over a few more times over a 2 week period. Everything was good. She went from being all into me, saying she missed and was looking forward to seeing me to being off like a light.
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 98
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Do nice guys finish last?
Posted: 8/6/2018 5:32:50 PM
Endless, please reread my message #72 from this thread.
It appears you may have been "Too good to be true".
That is not to be interpreted as a bad thing. You seem to be a "good guy", so don't change.
A woman who has unresolved issues (suffered abuse of any kind) from the past seeks to keep things familiar / comfortable. She knows nothing else. A woman who is given the opportunity to experience a healthy relationship, can only do so IF she feels she is worthy of such.

Didn't she say, you were too good for her?
 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 99
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Posted: 8/6/2018 6:06:57 PM
I think it's a matter of people keeping up appearances until they decide they don't want to continue the relationship. My last dates with men generally are good dates before I pull the plug. It wasn't about the date itself, but feeling I'm not going to mesh with the person long term. Just the same after going on one date. The guy can think it went well, we had fun, but then something didn't click for me. I wouldn't think much of what may seem like a reversal of feelings.
 dinno76
Joined: 7/13/2018
Msg: 100
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Posted: 8/6/2018 6:10:46 PM
You pull the plug ? when they are in the hospital?
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