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 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 401
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or failsPage 17 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)

I find it to be sad and disappointing that so many women make the choices that put them through those kind of experiences, rather than more positive choices to begin with.


Some of us women made what we thought were positive choices....
I dated my husband for 6 months, then lived with him for over a year before I married him.
Not once in that time did he show one sign of being a violent man....
He got laid off from his job, started drinking heavily (which he had never done before) and I found out real quick whiskey made him a mean...mean man.
I was smart enough (even at a very young age) to not stick around for long once it started... even when he told me repeatedly he would kill me if I left. (which is why I left the way I did...)
It is too easy for those that have never lived through it....to judge those that have.
You don't know their story....so hold your judgements to yourself.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 402
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/24/2018 7:13:47 PM
I think many women are "fixers". They think that with enough love and support a man can improve. I know I thought that 10 years ago. I'm a helpful, caring person by nature and I wanted to believe the best about people.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 403
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 4:37:36 AM
^^ Never understood that concept personally....

If I don't like "who" a man is to start with....I'm not going to get into a relationship with him.
Why would anyong become involved with someone that needs "fixed" into being their perfect partner???
Men aren't puppies to be trained to act a certain way!
 Clytemnestra
Joined: 6/6/2018
Msg: 404
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 5:23:23 AM
msg#403;
^^ Never understood that concept personally....

If I don't like "who" a man is to start with....I'm not going to get into a relationship with him.
Why would anyong become involved with someone that needs "fixed" into being their perfect partner???
Men aren't puppies to be trained to act a certain way!


+1

I might buy my guy a shirt that I think would look nice on him, that's about the extent of my 'fixing' compulsion.

Seems rather narcissistic (as long as we're throwing this word around will-nilly) to me, to think that you know better than the person themselves, who they should be, how they should act, what they should think and feel, etc.

Who died and made you god to mold someone else's clay?
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 405
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 7:13:16 AM

They think that with enough love and support a man can improve.



Let's paraphrase this shall we?

"They (Women raised in an abusive/dysfunctional environment) think with enough love (obsession) and support,
(" help," make excuses for) a man can improve. (CHANGE him to fit her needs)


I highly advise seeking help thru a support group such as Al-Anon.

Al-Anon Family Groups is a "worldwide fellowship that offers a program of recovery for the families and friends of alcoholics, whether or not the alcoholic recognizes the existence of a drinking problem or seeks help."
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 406
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 7:22:05 AM
I think people are confusing the concept of...
‘fixing’ or changing someone
As
‘bringing out the best in each other’.
 Carnival_Fishing
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 407
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 8:07:14 AM
"They (Women raised in an abusive/dysfunctional environment) think with enough love (obsession) and support,
(" help," make excuses for) a man can improve. (CHANGE him to fit her needs)"

What kind of effect does that have on the kids, when a desperate mother takes a guy that needs "fixing", because she feels she can't get a guy that doesn't need fixing? She's setting up the kids to be like her, since being in a dysfunctional relationship is their norm, and all they know about relationships.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 408
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 8:08:47 AM
I do not think the same anymore. That was the younger me who was more naive. I was raised with a religious background and I think that has something to do with it. I also thought everyone deserves a chance to be good and do good. What it took me years to figure out is that not everyone wants to be good, they don't have this moral compass that they follow.

Just curious, how many of you went through high school and university without a boyfriend or girlfriend? I did, and it left me wondering what the hell was so wrong with me that no one decent wanted to be with me. I finally came to the conclusion that I just wasn't able to find a decent guy so I would have to give a guy who wasn't decent a chance. How many girls have thought they could turn a bad boy good? As a younger woman that was me.

I have realized over the years that the reason I never had a boyfriend in my earlier years was because I was shy and would give off signals I wasn't interested to guys I liked. If I had acted like myself, they would have maybe asked me out. Plus, it wasn't exactly the biggest high school either. And when I was in university, the student population was 70% female so not great odds, and even worse odds if you consider in the arts and social sciences faculties where I took most of my classes were at like 90% female. I lived in a girls' dorm my first two years and I worked at an all girls' summer camp for three summers. None of my friends had boyfriends that lived in the city we were in. Some of them would have summer flings when they went home but that was the extent of it. We would go to all the clubs together and go to university dances like toga parties and such but it was slim pickings for available guys. It was like pof in real life but with the guys and girls positions reversed--guys really had it made there I think. Most of my friends remained single while we lived there. Every single one of my friends met guys as soon as they moved away. I finally met a guy off of pof when I was 6 months away from graduating.
 johnfromzelie
Joined: 3/8/2018
Msg: 409
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 8:23:03 AM

+1

I might buy my guy a shirt that I think would look nice on him, that's about the extent of my 'fixing' compulsion.

Seems rather narcissistic (as long as we're throwing this word around will-nilly) to me, to think that you know better than the person themselves, who they should be, how they should act, what they should think and feel, etc.

Who died and made you god to mold someone else's clay?
+2. biggest and most important concern is do they even want 'fixed'? forcing someone to become someone they don't want to be is not 'fixing', even if they truly need fixed. on a lesser degree, 2 people can adapt and complement each other when they both want similar.
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 410
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 9:33:26 AM

Seems rather narcissistic to think you know better than the person themselves, who they should be or are

... My thoughts ~ on the steps to have been accomplished, before engaging in a serious relationship ...

step one > Be self-sufficient / reliant ( do not rely on anyone, for anything ~ other then your employers check )
step two > Spend sufficient amounts of time dating and getting to know one another before, even " considering " moving in together.
step three > Although this may sound a bit abstract - Personally, I believe each individual should have their own
................... separate residence. Don't rely on one another , for any material support. If one thing seems certain in this time period, it is that each individual needs to earn their own way. Trouble begins when one cannot do this & relies on another for their very existence.
step four > Live together for years before ANY bond ( such as marriage ) is considered.
step five > ( the MOST important ) DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN UNTIL THE RELATIONSHIP IS TOTALLY SOLIDIFIED !!!

... heart / sun
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 411
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 9:54:07 AM
step 6 > NEVER stay in a relationship, thinking you can " fix " various problems your significant other may have.

lyrics - " Rock the sinking vessel til it rests on the bottom ..
............. Count the waves of water, don't remember to forget them ..
............. Taste the stench of living on thin dimes and a dream ..
............. Opening an ear to a painful silent scream ..
............. Ohhhh > life is bad ..
............. Oh no, worst I've ever had ..
............. To being a beginner, to inventing the end ..
............. To livin' with a strangler, never a friend ..
............. Saddle slobbering beast, trouble is abound ..
............. Ride the devils bronco, never hit the ground ..

LIFE IS BAD by Shelby Lynne
> turn it up ^
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 412
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 10:14:02 AM

I was raised with a religious background and I think that has something to do with it

Nope....I was raised in a very religious background....still never thought it was a good idea to try to mold a man into what I percieved to be my perfect partner.


Just curious, how many of you went through high school and university without a boyfriend or girlfriend? I did, and it left me wondering what the hell was so wrong with me that no one decent wanted to be with me. I finally came to the conclusion that I just wasn't able to find a decent guy so I would have to give a guy who wasn't decent a chance. How many girls have thought they could turn a bad boy good? As a younger woman that was me.

Once again....this is a problem you made up all in your head.
You took 1 or 2 instances from your early years and turned them into "that's the way it is".
You have really got to quit judging men based on high school boys actions.
You really are your own worst enemy because you not only live in the past....you live in a fantasy world every time you talk to a guy.
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 413
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 10:44:41 AM

You took 1 or 2 instances from your early years and turned them into "that's the way it is".



Exactly...............…. "that's the way it is", ADD on, assuming the "shoe fits" everyone.

ONE person's perception does not equal everyone else's reality.

I also was raised in a very conservative religious environment. Attended church every Saturday and went to schools of the same religion. My mother stayed in an abusive marriage...………….claiming, "The religion made me do it".

I not only left the religion, I sought help to change MY way of thinking. I rescued my mother, from the abusive marriage and she also left the religion.
Using "religion" is just another excuse.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 414
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 12:08:26 PM

Just curious, how many of you went through high school and university without a boyfriend or girlfriend?


I did.
No dates, boyfriends, or girlfriends for the entire time I was in high school and university... and I was in higher education a very long time.

I never wondered what was wrong with me, I wondered what was wrong with them that all they could think of was getting a boyfriend (all the girls) or working on their Ford truck (all the guys).

I came to the conclusion that most people were decent but, really, not too bright.
I also realized that if I wanted sex, I didn’t have to pretend to know all about trucks to trap some guy into a relationship.
I realized that I didn’t want a full-time permanent relationship with anyone at that time.
I realized I had more important desires than ‘settling down’.
 lnitia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 415
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 12:19:34 PM
Hey yes BackCreek- a doobie brother's song i wasn't familiar with it was very enjoyable-and for me "jamaica" certainly felt like a call from my souls home when there!
To the topic at hand if we have consistent "choices" to "fix people" this needs be worked through from both the personal ego fulfillment(G_d ego as well as martyr complex)- and codependent corrective- therapies-self help-support groups( al-anon is a fabulous suggestion-yet 12 step programs in general are very helpful in giving tools and strategies for better life choices) In such relationships often not an honest exchange of emotions and intimacy rather: communications from both parties are bartering and manipulation.
OldWax?? Trying to insult you? was that your goal when you suggested younger women try older men? Maybe you r personifying a bit- i too have had much younger and older male lovers so understand the dynamics.
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 416
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 1:01:23 PM
^^^ Thank you initia, I thought you would like " MAMALOI ". It's from the LP " Toulouse Street "

... I like the song "Toulouse Streeet " even more.

* lyrics - " The night she is hot, the creole girls they sing ..
................. My heart it is pounding, my ears they ring ..
................ The spell has been cast down in New Orleans, again ..
................. I just might pass this way again ..
................. I just might pass this way again ..
................. I just might pass this way, I might just might pass this way again..

... TOULOUSE STREET by the Doobie Brothers
... > turn it up ^
...
... heart / sun > & ps ?

... I enjoy " Cheat the Hangman " ( although a bit long ) as well ~ musically & vocally ..
... The Doobies are the " platipies " meow ( col )
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 417
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 5:03:23 PM

MsMicki
Some of us women made what we thought were positive choices....
I dated my husband for 6 months, then lived with him for over a year before I married him.
Not once in that time did he show one sign of being a violent man....
He got laid off from his job, started drinking heavily (which he had never done before) and I found out real quick whiskey made him a mean...mean man.

I was watching a movie the other night, Netflix I think, “Night Moves”, 1975, Gene Hackman as a private eye. Not a bad movie. At one point, this woman explains to Gene Hackman’s character why she is with the particular man she’s with. The guy's kinda worthless, and drinks too much, but she said he was the only man she ever met who became nicer when he drank.
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 418
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 5:14:35 PM
I have never ever forgotten the words of a former co-worker/former friend. Here goes.
Me: "WHY do you tolerate the abuse. WHY do you repeat the same bad behavior?"

Her: "I have never known anything else. It's all I've ever known."
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 419
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 5:22:28 PM

OldWax?? Trying to insult you? was that your goal when you suggested younger women try older men? Maybe you r personifying a bit- i too have had much younger and older male lovers so understand the dynamics.

Of course you were trying to insult me. That's okay, I guess, because I did insult older women first. There is no denying that. All you did was join the dog pile on OldWx that was already started by others. Your insult didn't land because you overlooked a couple of things in my posting history.

Personalizing? Absolutely! First hand, personal experience has shown me that unconventional relationships can be some of the most fulfilling. I've been recommending them since I started posting. On the older/ younger issue, you have the advantage on me. I've had one partner that was much older. The rest were within a year or two of me. Nobody much younger. I am confident that older man/younger woman can work though. One of my sisters married her high school history teacher and they are still married after 35 years.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 420
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/25/2018 5:28:17 PM

the only man she ever met who became nicer when he drank.

I can relate....
I become overly "friendly" if I drink too much! LOL
 fullmoonguy2
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 421
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/26/2018 10:33:07 AM

It is too easy for those that have never lived through it....to judge those that have.


Have you ever considered that some of us who have never lived through it,.......never lived through it because we made carefully considered better decisions, rather than just lucked out?

[
You don't know their story....so hold your judgements to yourself.


A lot of the stories are unsurprisingly similar. From the beginning of time.
I have been hearing them all my life. *(62 years)

Here's another variation:

Back when I was 10 or 11 (so this was late 1960s), my mom told me about a friend of hers, whose 16 year old high school student daughter ran away from home with her boyfriend because her parents didn't want them together. The parents were frantic. A couple months later the girl shows back up at home, dumped.....and pregnant. Bawling through tears that "I thought he loved me.". Yeah, that's a rare story.
So the judgments are usually accurate.


I dated my husband for 6 months, then lived with him for over a year before I married him.
Not once in that time did he show one sign of being a violent man....


A woman I chatted with on here a few times years ago, told me a similar story of her 2nd failed marriage (of 3).
Started dating a guy who treated her like a queen. Can't recall exactly how long. No problems at all.

However...she also mentioned that at parties and get-togethers, some of his family members and friends would make seemingly off-hand comments to her that "----- is a changed man since he met you" or " -----is a different guy since you started dating him".
My immediate reaction was "changed from what?"

She said that question never occurred to her, and so she never asked it.
But 9 months into the marriage, she found out, when he started physically abusing her, and she discovered eventually that everyone knew he has abused all his former girlfriends, and the "change", a temporary one, was that he wasn't abusing her.....yet.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 422
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/26/2018 10:48:17 AM
I don't find anything admirable about anyone that's never made
a mistake because they never tried or reached for something they
wanted. People make mistakes then move on and try again. At least
most people do. Making it to 62 without making a mistake is hardly
something to be proud of. It's like saying you've never been out of
your zipcode.

Sounds like a great epitaph "Yeah, I'm alone, but at least I never made
a bad decision".

Blah.
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
Msg: 423
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/26/2018 10:51:29 AM
"If I don't like "who" a man is to start with....I'm not going to get into a relationship with him. Why would anyong become involved with someone that needs "fixed" into being their perfect partner???"

>>your goal for a relationship, is different from their goal.

"how many of you went thru high school and university without a relationship?"

>>>in high school, i was there to get grades good enough for college and to stand on my own two feet in life, not to date. i figured i had the rest of my life to do that, since i had been told women preferred personality to looks. by college i realized very few women want to date an ugly man with a great personality, and many will put up with a lot of guff from a hot guy.

as for the poeple who constantly make poor choices, take a look at the family they were raised in...likely, they are returning to what they are comfortable with. i knew a fellow who came from an abusive household, for example, and when faced with an abusive fiancee, his only thought was he knew how to handle it. not that he should run away from it. of course, from his PTSD of childhood, he was financially insecure, so he also assumed it was this woman or no one.

If we listen to the complaints of the MWGTOW crowd, we'd see they're complaining about these very same women we say we don't understand. those guys have grown up around these women, and decided all women are like this. there are more women in this boat you can't understand, than you think--ie, its not super-rare.
 fullmoonguy2
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 424
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/26/2018 10:59:26 AM

I don't find anything admirable about anyone that's never made
a mistake because they never tried or reached for something they
wanted. At least
most people do. Making it to 62 without making a mistake is hardly
something to be proud of. It's like saying you've never been out of
your zipcode.

Sounds like a great epitaph "Yeah, I'm alone, but at least I never made
a bad decision


Your ditzy comments are laughable.

I'm talking about MAJOR , LIFE-ALTERING MISTAKES THAT CAN NEEDLESSLY THREATEN YOUR LIFE.

Not missing a few questions on a geography test.

Life-KILLING "mistakes" like the people who climb over the safety railing at the Grand Canyon so they can have a more "natural" picture without the railings....and then fall to their death.


It's like saying you've never been out of
your zipcode.


I have been out of my zip code thousands of times, without coming back with major, life-altering PROBLEMS.
Including falling into the Grand Canyon.


People make mistakes then move on and try again.


People, such as that woman in Washington State who ended up in pieces, cannot just "move on" when they're dead.

ANOTHER SMH moment.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 425
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 11/26/2018 11:12:51 AM
I think it is easy to judge. I was once very naive. I always wanted to think the best of people. That plays into it, really not being people-smart. And of course, the big reason women end up with jerks is the attraction to the bad boy, something really played up in romance movies and books. And then you combine it sometimes with lack of self-worth or shame then a messy childhood and its really a doozy.

I still say its 50% wisdom and 50% luck if your life ends up a mess. People who look down on or judge others for bad decisions really shouldn't.
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