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 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 26
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or failsPage 2 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
And daynadaze, I recognize that I was not looking at those things when I was in my relationship. Going forward, I won't pursue a relationship with someone if I feel they can't provide the 4 above things. Plus I just thought of a 5th thing and that is how a guy gets along with kids. Obviously as a woman with kids, that's a biggie, but even childless women will often go gaga for a guy who is great with kids.
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 27
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 11:12:59 AM

Women used to look up to men
I still do

You don't. Probably never did. Otherwise, you wouldn't say the things that you say in the forums. Not just this thread but all of the others too. You are an excellent example of why old people have the worst relationships as noted in the original article. Your generation of women are the most ungrateful and most disagreeable women ever. People criticize millennial women but with all of their imperfections, they are better than you and the record shows.


Maybe...use some qualifiers....in your messages. There are still some of us that enjoy the opposite sex without using grandiose generalizations of all....

imo….some...not all...in my view....in my lifetime

This is a good "for instance." My grandmother would never say that. Millennial women wouldn't say that. Millennial women will express themselves but shy away from being the thought police. Face facts, your generation of women stand alone as the most combative in living memory. You have no place commenting upon relationships because it is impossible for you to maintain one.
 Rumours
Joined: 6/4/2018
Msg: 28
A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 11:32:13 AM
Wowzers!! Such a nasty man response....more porridge please.
And I thought I was being rather nice...
some men don't like women with an opinion...my father told me that.

I am very opinionated and not often wrong....



In order to maintain the highest quality forums you are restricted to having no more then 2 of the last 10 posts on a thread.
Since 2 of the last 10 posts are yours you can not post to this thread.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 29
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 12:31:55 PM

Just keep in mind, doing such doesn't mean you can force a guy to take over the bulk of the beta emotions and carry FEELINGS and conversations the way women have genetically for a millennia.

I'm not sure that women expect men to delve into long phone calls and emote all over the place. (Certainly not me - but I detest long phone calls and weepy movies.)
Sometimes, the 'discuss our relationship' request is for exchanging information which may be vital to the relationship.

The woman wants to know if the relationship is leading to permanency and if so, how quickly.
She wants to know how is permanency defined - buying an engagement ring, planning the wedding, or buying a dog.
The woman wants to know if this relationship is mutually exclusive. Or not.
The woman wants to know if her male's sex life is good or not.
The woman wants the man to know that her sex life is or is not good.
The woman want the man to know that - after lots of thought - she has changed her stance on having children or pet or house or car.
The woman wants to buy a house. With him. Or without him.
She's been offered a job in Italy.
She's been offered a job in Italy AND she's going to take it.

When a man won't listen, he stands to lose a lot that may be important to him.
Really, does a man shut his ears when a co-worker comes to him and says, "I need to talk to you about something important?"

I don't think most women want a man to empathize with her feelings, I think she wants to know that she and her feelings are important to him.

Having said that...
There is a way to talk to most men that is very different than talking to most women.
I think everyone should take some sort of sexual bilingual classes.
(And keep your mind out of the gutter!)

Or at least learn what is important to their partners.
A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 12:44:54 PM

safety (from physical harm)
security (financially with a good roof over their head)
appreciation (for what they bring to the table)
the feeling of being wanted (sexually and romantically)

Why these things?
 oldwxman
Joined: 7/22/2018
Msg: 31
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 1:06:20 PM

I'm not sure that women expect men to delve into long phone calls and emote all over the place. (Certainly not me - but I detest long phone calls and weepy movies.)
Sometimes, the 'discuss our relationship' request is for exchanging information which may be vital to the relationship.


Glad you posted. This gives me a chance to expand on my first post like I promised. I said that women don't want the emotional wreckage that men think that they want. They never did really. To be fair, women's literature of the 70's and 80's pushed that stuff hard. Average women didn't really buy into that stuff completely. Helen Gurley Brown didn't represent the vast majority of women. Men didn't know that and because that was all that the media ever pushed they believed it. Men got whipsawed by trying to live the propaganda and being slapped by reality. Some of those guys are still alive and still yelping from the experience. Younger guys hear that and repeat. It will die out someday.


The woman wants to know if the relationship is leading to permanency and if so, how quickly.
She wants to know how is permanency defined - buying an engagement ring, planning the wedding, or buying a dog.
The woman wants to know if this relationship is mutually exclusive. Or not.
The woman wants to know if her male's sex life is good or not.
The woman wants the man to know that her sex life is or is not good.
The woman want the man to know that - after lots of thought - she has changed her stance on having children or pet or house or car.
The woman wants to buy a house. With him. Or without him.
She's been offered a job in Italy.
She's been offered a job in Italy AND she's going to take it
...
I don't think most women want a man to empathize with her feelings, I think she wants to know that she and her feelings are important to him.


Nothing more than women ever wanted. The fine details and priorities may be a bit different but mostly practical considerations. They are not calling for men to fall to pieces. Men only think that because that is what the media sold them. Not anything close to reality.


Having said that...
There is a way to talk to most men that is very different than talking to most women.
I think everyone should take some sort of sexual bilingual classes.

No specific disagreement really. I only doubt that such a thing would be decisive.
 Cloud_Interpreter
Joined: 8/18/2018
Msg: 32
A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 1:10:27 PM
Edit to add: My post is addressing Msg. 30.

^^^^Perhaps it's because she can't provide those things for herself and is looking for someone else to do it for her.

"Because it's hard work doing it on my own and why should I if I can find someone to do it for me?"

Waa waa waa. That is exactly how and why she ended up with the "rotten" father of her children.
A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 2:36:43 PM

^^^^Perhaps it's because she can't provide those things for herself and is looking for someone else to do it for her.

"Because it's hard work doing it on my own and why should I if I can find someone to do it for me?"

Waa waa waa. That is exactly how and why she ended up with the "rotten" father of her children.


totally agree, didn't want to say it though because then she would get all mad at me and call me a meany. I think she is waiting around for a knight in shining armor to rescue her. She will sure be angry when she has to close up the fairy tale book and realize they don't exist.

No way in hell you can change a man to fit your idea of Mr. Wonderful. You also can't turn yourself into a pretzel to try and keep a man around. You either both want it to work or it won't, simple as that.
 johnfromzelie
Joined: 3/8/2018
Msg: 34
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 2:45:47 PM

No way in hell you can change a man to fit your idea of Mr. Wonderful. You also can't turn yourself into a pretzel to try and keep a man around. You either both want it to work or it won't, simple as that.
100% agree. changing to be someone your not will ALWAYS result in changing back eventually. while many do it for a way too long time, they are miserable the whole time. how much does their partner really care if they would have someone else be miserable to suit their own needs?
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 35
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 3:06:00 PM

Your answer kind of really explains why you've had problems with relationships. You've never been able to understand how to respond to women. Its a problem some men have but not all. There's a reason many men are able to maintain good relationships and they don't need to sacrifice their own masculine qualities to do so. Most women are happy when they feel safe (from physical harm), secure (financially with a good roof over their head), appreciated (for what they bring to the table) and wanted (sexually and romantically). Romance is a big key to the whole thing in this day and age. And romance is not an effeminate quality. Romance has been a thing for a long time. Watch movies made 80 years ago and manly men took time to romance ladies via dancing with them and singing or giving them flowers or gifts. Today's men won't dance or sing or bring flowers because they think its sissy. In my job I work with the elderly and I deal with a lot of elderly couples who are happily married after 50, 60, 70 years. The common thing I see is that the couple danced a lot through their marriage. They have these polka dances at local halls with mostly senior citizens dancing and they broadcast them on Saturday nights on the public access channel. And when I work, those dances are on almost all my client's tvs, even the old men that live alone widowed or years, watch it. Now, dancing is a very interesting thing to look at because when dancing, it is the man who leads and controls the movement and the woman follows his lead. Dancing is intimate without having to talk about feelings yet it is very communicative.


Uhh, yup, and since I wasn't a music lover, didn't understand or care for the rhythm of most music. Singing??? better have a set of earplugs. Dancing? ok, try to teach someone to dance when he has a hard time with right and left. I've had tinnitus most of my life. That tone I hear, is right about the same range that women's voices come in. Any expression you put in your voice-I don't hear. My ex just happened to be deaf in one ear. I catered to that since the day I found out about it. She, on the other hand, got mad at me for not hearing every word she uttered. She used to cater to my deficenties. Then she used it as an excuse to be mad at me.

I've successfully gotten over dealing with women, SO, I'm not going there again. (I'll deal with you on a friend basis, only.)
 curvylady1965
Joined: 12/31/2017
Msg: 36
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 5:19:52 PM
I don't really understand the safety and financial security requirements. Safety is situational. I would not expect anyone to run into a burning building for me and likely end up dead or seriously injured themselves. One encounters a fair number of meth-heads and others off their meds around where I work. I wouldn't expect someone to come to my rescue or defense with one of them. I have barely missed being punched out a couple of times - just walking to the bus after work. No one stepped in to assist and I was not expecting it. I think it's more important for me to be aware of my surroundings and be scouting my way out when I encounter those people. If a partner were with me, I would hope he would exercise common sense and look to get us out rather than defend us against someone beyond even the effects of a properly used taser. But you live in a small town so maybe things are different in your environment.
In terms of money, your financial security is up to you. The financial security of your three children is up to you and their father, who I recognize the courts may have to step in on. I understand your family likely has financial resources that have helped you and your three children out and that there will be money left to you, however, in the long run, you need to figure out how to provide for you and your children, together with your ex partner. While I have known of situations where men have stepped in and helped provide for someone else's children but those situations have been rare and appear to be getting less common rather than more common. Regardless of finding someone who may be willing to take care of you and yours financially, there is no guarantee of forever. While 35 is much younger than me, I also don't consider it at all young. A really serious relationship takes time to develop so I wouldn't see you in a really serious relationship until age 37, even if you started that relationship today. Relationships fail all the time. People get sick all the time. What is there for you financially now and through sickness and break-ups and into retirement takes planning and you are far from too young to start.
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 37
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 5:46:10 PM

A mans actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails


^^^ What a load of poppycock bs !! Just the sentence by itself is exclusionary, as a man / woman relationship involves
both parties. It is only common sense that tells us that both parties ( man & woman ) determine how the relationship may fair. If it is primarily how the man acts, that determines the key to a successful relationship ~ it is doomed to failure either way you look at it.

....... Some people always have to take a simple idea ( like 2 people loving and caring for each other ) and turn it into some type of " lab experiment " . Probably because it is their job to do so, a job being the furthest thing away from what we would wish, for our relationships to be.

...... I think, in order to have a successful relationship > the most important issue is that you both are best friends. You may not agree ( & probably don't ) on everything, but you respect and greatly appreciate each other. I mention the term " friendship " , as if it is a widespread given but .... As most know, there are very few of us who have a huge number of " real " friends. Those we truly treasure, trust & would give our lives for.

..... In conclusion, I might say ... Let us not take something simple and basic ( love ) and turn it into some complex equation , that needs to be endlessly dissected & fine tuned. If things do not come naturally & agreeably to both ...

> Be smart enough to find someone else ...

heart / sun
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 38
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 7:03:51 PM
time.com/4354770/how-to-stay-married/

Sometimes, "THE bottom line" or in this case "lines" is the true punchline. I read the article. ALL of it. The original post submitted in this thread was IMO ……………….cherry picked. Read "THE rest of the story" provided below.

"The one piece of advice every expert and nonexpert gives for staying married is perhaps the least useful one for those who are already several years in: choose well. The cascade of hormones that rains down on humans when they first fall in love, while completely necessary and wonderful, can sometimes blind individuals to their poor choices. Therapists suggest you ask friends about your prospective life mate and listen to them. Aim to find someone you know you'll love even during the periods when you don't like him or her so much.
And then, cross your fingers. As Grunwald puts it in an aphorism that may end up in a future marriage book: "Just pick out a good one and get lucky."


LOL, I'll join Stratosphere on her "Meany" bench, and then scoot over to be "On the same page" as Curvylady.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 39
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 7:10:10 PM
I am not looking for a knight in shining armour because I don't believe they exist, at least for average-looking 35-year-old single mothers of 3 kids. If I was a knockout then sure. Men are usually willing to rescue a beautiful woman. Regarding the 4 qualities I mentioned above:

1) Safety (from harm) - I want someone who won't hurt me verbally and physically. And I am not attracted to a guy that I think I would be able to beat up. I am attracted to someone physically stronger and taller than me.

2) Security (financial and a roof over my head) - I work fulltime and I make okay money but let's face it, the cost of living is high and living on one income is tight. Being able to split the rent and utilities with someone would be great. Also, having lived with a lazy guy who was unemployed over half the time, I have no desire to go back to that. I do not have respect for a man who makes less than me because of my prior situation.

3) Appreciation (for what I bring to the table) - I'd like to feel appreciated, most people do. If I make a nice supper or do your laundry it would be nice to hear a thank you every so often instead of feeling taken for granted.

4) the feeling of being wanted (sexually and romantically) - I went 9 years with only getting a Valentine's gift once and it was a card which my kids had actually gotten their dad to get. We were broke a lot of years so I went quite a few years without getting a Christmas present or birthday present from me ex. One Christmas I remember getting a pile of sweaters even though I never wore sweaters. My ex never really ever put in an effort. I think in the first couple years he did love me and he put in some effort and I was appreciative but after a couple years he just figured it was unnecessary. We never went on dates or anything. He always told me he loved me which I always said back but the guy didn't have a romantic bone in his body. Even when we didn't have money I figured out nice little gifts for him and he used to complain about them. So yeah, if I ever get lucky enough to ever have a boyfriend again, I want at least a little romance.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 40
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 7:17:36 PM
I do understand the "choose well" advice now that I'm no longer 25. I think for a lot of women though, the desire to have kids and be a mother is such that we settle for men that we shouldn't because we want to have kids before its too late. Our fertility goes down a lot in our 30s and there's a real fear you won't meet someone.
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 41
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 7:24:54 PM
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Speak for yourself and leave me and others out of ……………

I think for a lot of women though...…………….


your "think" (assumptions)
Thank you.
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 42
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 7:49:46 PM
"Your answer kind of really explains why you've had problems with relationships. You've never been able to understand how to respond to women. Its a problem some men have but not all. "

Seriously....................Not all women are emotional vampires. Not all women are so impractical. Please stop assuming all women think like you.

"Today's men won't dance or sing or bring flowers because they think its sissy."

Maybe they don't with some women. Most men have brought me flowers. Any man who has tried to sing to me I have shut down because I find it creepy. All men I have gone out with have danced.

"I don't really understand the safety and financial security requirements. "

Exactly! Adults (both men and women) are responsible for their own safety and security.

FYI, it is a big world. Try dating a different type of man. Right after you work on your own issues.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 43
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 8:44:13 PM
I live a small pond. Ever been to Saskatchewan?

Some of you women on here, mostly older women their 50s or 60s I might add, are saying things that contradict common knowledge. Do you honestly think you'd be happy with someone shorter or weaker than you or with someone who made less money? You say these things don't matter to you now but did they when you were younger?
 moraima
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 44
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 8:55:33 PM
"I might add, are saying things that contradict common knowledge."

Seriously! Listen. It isn't common knowledge. It is your knowledge that is faulty.

OMG, I have lived in small towns for the last 40's years and never had any of the issues you whine about.

"Do you honestly think you'd be happy with someone shorter or weaker than you or with someone who made less money? You say these things don't matter to you now but did they when you were younger?"

No one said that. Where do you get these ideas!

Grow a backbone and all your problem will vanish. No one can rescue you but yourself.

Most people have posted that they call bs on this theory. Why don't you think about that for a while.

One of the definitions of insanity is thinking all of the 100 people who disagree with you are wrong.
 mahwahgirl339114
Joined: 10/31/2017
Msg: 45
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 10:39:49 PM

No way in hell you can change a man to fit your idea of Mr. Wonderful. You also can't turn yourself into a pretzel to try and keep a man around. You either both want it to work or it won't, simple as that.


I wish I had learned this sooner than I did. In my younger years I've absorbed the most dysfunctional messages about the men/women dynamic. Better late than never, they are clearing out of my head in the face of all evidence supporting the statement above.
 mahwahgirl339114
Joined: 10/31/2017
Msg: 46
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 10:47:56 PM

"I might add, are saying things that contradict common knowledge."

Seriously! Listen. It isn't common knowledge. It is your knowledge that is faulty.

There is a lot of bs in common knowledge. It's often knowledge of how to adapt to and survive in adverse circumstances that's been passed down to us from times when there was no escape. Ex. the proverb "if he beats you it means he loves you." Thanks, that's so comforting. Or, "the husband is the head and the wife is the neck." Yes very cute, so what happens when the head gets up and leaves? The neck becomes both? No... both people have to like, respect and be attracted to each other... and want it to work... a tall order, I know.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 47
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 11:32:35 PM
That's the thing about sage advice, we old people can offer our years of experience but we can't give to you because you have to stumble through your own trials. But we try anyway, because every once in a while it does help someone. And of course there are lots of people who don't make messes of thier lives.
 mahwahgirl339114
Joined: 10/31/2017
Msg: 48
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/27/2018 11:46:41 PM
^^^I don't see a single such person in this thread.

In order to maintain the highest quality forums you are restricted to having no more then 2 of the last 10 posts on a thread.
Since 2 of the last 10 posts are yours you can not post to this thread.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 49
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/28/2018 6:40:33 AM

Do you honestly think you'd be happy with someone shorter or weaker than you or with someone who made less money?

I was.
One of my first boyfriends back in high school was much shorter than me.
My husband was an inch shorter than me.
I never bothered asking my dates what they earned but, based on their jobs, it was probably similar to my salary.
As for weak... I rather suspect that most men shorter than you are stronger.

You can keep your delusion if you wish, but they do you no service.
 Ladyinred0407
Joined: 2/6/2016
Msg: 50
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A man's actions are the key variable that determines whether a relationship survives or fails
Posted: 10/28/2018 7:33:21 AM

^^^I don't see a single such person in this thread


The POF Forums have been here for a long time. Take the blinders off, and see the bigger picture.

More than a few hundred users have, read, posted, reacted / responded...………………...with questions, asked for advice, ………….suggestions were given, advice was given...………………… from MEN AND...….. WOMEN...………...over and over and over and over and...……………..for years.

We encounter the few who appear to refuse to listen. They will never "see the light". There is an excuse for everything. The deflection and projection is mind boggling.

Occasionally, we get the impression that the person "asking", actually listened...………………..

Bottom line: A mature, emotionally healthy adult, takes full responsibility for their own life choices. Good or bad.
My history in the Forums, speaks for itself. THIS old woman speaks from her own life experiences. I have been thru hell and back. I made the choice, I made the gut wrenching adjustments. My advice comes from this viewpoint.

For the record, I have never ever sought for a man due solely to his height, or his ability to protect me.
Common knowledge? ****'N BS.
THIS old woman, has taken down more than one man. I learned to protect myself, AND my children!
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