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 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 52
Why is smoking pot a crime?Page 2 of 60    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
The only difference between people who smoke POT, and those who don't,------Is the people who do smoke it , dont care if you do or not ,,and will never judge another for it !


Hmmm interesting stament! If I didn't know any better I would actually think that is ALSO judging.

Everyone judges. So don't kid yourself.

How many people do you know who have lost their, minds, families or jobs because of "oreos"??? Lame comparisson to compare drugs to red meat or cookies or anything other than another mind altering substance. Juvenile too.
Drugs are drugs they mess up people's minds how is that EVER good?
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 56
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 4:52:25 PM
I've never heard of Marijuana related accidents where pot was soley responsable... I've never heard of someone developing mental illness because of soley pot.


well...that's your problem! please educate yourself and at least if you are going to support something do it in a fair way by knowing BOTH sides of the story not only by acknowledging what seems convenient and practical to you and your personal existence. That is both irresponsible and discredits any form of opinion you might have.



Then have you called the police on those doctors and lawyers you know?



no I have not called the police on those people, they were grown adults who made their choices who am I to step in and tell them how to live their lives??? BUT I can step in by educating someone who is young and just starting life out on what drugs CAN do to their lives. I would never report them nor would do I want the power to make certain choices for them. I can only educate and then it is entirely up to each individual to decide. I would rather educate then lie to someone and tell them "go ahead do all the drugs you want they are HARMLESS anyway?" that's NOT being honest!


I'm sorry but your argument on legalizing drugs to use tax money to rehabilitate drug abusers is simply ridiculous when we have the amount of people dying because of unproper hospital care and lack of resources in hospitals to treat emergencies. Have you had any experience dealing with mental health at all? Please look into it and see how tarnished our mental care system is and then YOU tell ME if it makes ANY sense at all to legalize drugs. To make something legal that could potentially make those numbers of mentally disabled cases sky rocket through the roof. There are simply not enough facilities and staff to care for mentally ill patients as is imagine the chaos is they did legalize drugs.

People who want to get drugs will always get them so I am not all that worried about it. However what is the benefit from legalizing them? what is the REAL benefit to society as a whole? No one has been able to answer this objectively yet!
 indicalover
Joined: 3/25/2005
Msg: 58
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 4:55:07 PM
^^ Oh, thank you! You took the words out of my mouth. And I can't agree more with the fact that 'IMO' should have been inserted somewhere in that.

Sexybrainy- We're all discussing why our country has illegalized it. That's what this thread is ALL about. Everything you think you know about marijuana has been feed to you by those that think you're wrong in an alternate opinion. It's dogmatic in a sense. Do some research of your own on these studies that prove how BAD BAD BAD pot really is. Not some biased info, but actual medical studies. Then you can have you're opinion about the scum of the earth, and be able to back it up.

Hate to break it to you but pot makes people stupid.[/qoute]

Like I REALLY want to see that study. I'd shut my mouth about all this, and quit smoking pot if you could produce that. In the meantime, you shouldn't be so judgemental. You know alot more people who smoke pot than you think you do. The reason why you don't know that they do, is because you're so judgemental, that they wouldn't tell you.

Meekrob- I respect where you're coming from, but just because it's my interpretation (and I share it with a number of people) doesn't mean it's flawed. There are lots of things in nature that aren't good for you. There are loads of poisonous fungus, berries, plants, trees and more which aren't good for you. And there are lots that are either good for you, or not harmful. Mushrooms (certain kinds- not meaning the trippy ones) are great to eat and snack on. But mushrooms have no nutritional content. (At least according to the Audubon Society.) So they're not "good" for you. Did you know that if you made tea from needles on certain pine trees, that it would contain more vitamin C than in a serving or citrus fruit? Certain molds are highly toxic, but on the other hand that's where alot of modern day medicines have come from. So because God gave us free will, it's up to us to choose something for ourselves that isn't harmful. He gave us these bodies, and it's up to us to take care of them.

In reference to "Well, what about herion (or other opiates) or cocaine- it comes from plants, too." Well, my defence is that for a person to consume marijuana, all you have to do is pull it up out of the ground- or not, pick it directly from the plant, then consume. With all the other drugs, it needs manufacturing in order to produce results.
http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/coc08.htm (On Cocaine)
http://uk.geocities.com/brown_addict/overview.htm (on Heroin)

Why is marijuana so bad? I think it's because WE'VE made it bad. Just like sex, greasy foods, money, gambling, all sorts of things we've told ourselves is bad for so long that it's now like gospel. Why does it have to be bad when it feels good to have money, or have sex?It's all in how you look at it. And When I smoke pot, I feel good. I have very potent stuff, so I don't ned to smoke as much to get as high as I want to be. I don't usually go anywhere. I sit at the computer and read the news. I don't go to work stoned. I'm not mean to people when I'm not high. I feel no withdrawls if I go without. I'm not a thief because of it. I don't hurt people or cause crimes. I don't drive recklessly (and I ALWAYS use my blinker). I make alittle more than 35k a year, and I'm only 24. I'm insured. I have great savings, and I'm not a shopoholic. I shower every day and eat healthy. In a week, I might have as many as four glasses of wine. Usually more like two. Besides caffiene and nicotine, I do no other drugs. I ONLY smoke pot. So much for

They are the parasites of society. And you know it.
 indicalover
Joined: 3/25/2005
Msg: 59
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 4:56:47 PM
Didn't mean to quote the whole post...
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 60
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 5:01:00 PM
^ I rest my case!

I'm not even going to try to make sense of all that. But maybe once we have gathered our thoughts succinctly we can re-post.
 indicalover
Joined: 3/25/2005
Msg: 63
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 5:16:20 PM

well...that's your problem! please educate yourself and at least if you are going to support something do it in a fair way by knowing BOTH sides of the story not only by acknowledging what seems convenient and practical to you and your personal existence. That is both irresponsible and discredits any form of opinion you might have.


Still waiting for your backup. Where's your links to medical studies? Prove your arguement.

You talk about how you've tried drugs, then you talk about people you know that have. They have been all messed up and their lives wrecked. But your opinion is based on the experiences of others. You seem to think YOU turned out alright, and you said you tried drugs, therefore your personal experiences with them didn't ruin your life or cause you irreprible harm. If they did, please enlighten me! Because otherwise it looks like you don't know what you're talking about. My father is a prescription drug addict. It's ruined his life. I've taken pills to get high. It didn't ruin me, but I just choose not to do that anymore.

As with everything, it is up to the individual to make the decisions in his or her life and every one has consequences. If you over eat, you'll get fat. If you excersise alot, you'll be buff. Smoke alot of cigarettes, probably get cancer. Do alot of drugs, have alot of problems. So what's the problem when you ONLY smoke a LITTLE pot? There's a problem with overdoing everything. You whip cream to long, you get butter.

There would not be an increase to mental health care by only legalizing pot. You should go check out the medical journal link on the last page. We're not gonna have a massive influx of crazy pot smokers come flooding into the gates of the looney bin. It's just NOT going to happen. And since you're concerned with your tax dollars are going, why do you want to waste your money jailing non violent offenders, anyway? All that money is being wasted which could go toward met lab busts, or heavier crimes. Why jail the pothead?


what is the REAL benefit to society as a whole? No one has been able to answer this objectively yet!


Really- HOW is it so harmful? Give proof, not as you say "biased" opinion. Back yourself up.
 tyme_gypsy
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 64
view profile
History
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 5:20:07 PM
because it creates people like you, julzdude, who would otherwise possibly be productive, rational individuals.

The hemp rope argument is fallacious, like something out of High Times.
Hemp and manila weren't replaced by nylon until decades after the the laws were passed.
The change in choices were due to the degredation of the natural fiber ropes from weathering, moisture-induced mold nd mildew, chemical exposures and because of the weight-to-strength ratios. It wasn't until the 70's that synthetics really took over from natural fiber ropes and everybody in the world was smoking pot in the 70's including aspiring presidunces.
I'd rather see it legalized and taxed even though I don't use the stuff. The losers are gonna use it either way and most are a non-violent "wha?...huh? dduuuuudddddddeeee...." crowd. That way LE could focus on the drugs which are violence-creating , like meth and crack.
In addition the sales of twinkies would go way up.
 indicalover
Joined: 3/25/2005
Msg: 65
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 5:20:14 PM
The benifit is that money and time isn't being wasted on such a trivial thing. It's stupid. A poor spending of resources. I want my money going to alternate energy. I want it going to save the forests. Not wasting the police officers time by filing loads of paperwork, and the courts time with all the documents and the tax payers money with incarceration and Lord knows what else. That's a FEW benifits.
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 67
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 6:23:25 PM
If anyone else needs to be educated on the "effects of pot" I will gladly offer you more articles on the studies. But for now this should do.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2923647.stm

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3098

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6629828/


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2498493.stm

http://www.jointogether.org/sa/news/summaries/reader/0,1854,575317,00.html



I'm certain pot does not affect everyone the same way but I think it's important to also site its potential negative effects. The loss of cognitive mental funtion is the number 1 negative side effect. Perhaps this is why it's become so hard to relate simple facts to some otherwise seemingly intelligent people on here??

I don't have a problem with people who use pot sparingly, most my friends do. My problem is with the effects of chronic use and legalizing pot would not benfit us as a social whole in any way or form. I have yet to see how it would benefit us. On the other hand I think it is stupid to put pot smokers in jail, I agree. It hink if anything needs to be done just use fines. Let's face it cops will not go around and fine everyone who is smoking at home so that would be a good "solution" But to jail smokers is ridiculous and to legalize it is even more ridiculous. For many shrooms or ecstacy are the drugs of choice so why not just legalize them?



To all you pot smokers out there who do it in moderation and don't feel any negative effects well, the more power to you. I also know a LOT of functioning professional coke-heads who are funny and intelligent and fun to be around. Is coke a shiiiitty drug that can destroy people's lives? you bet it is! Pot is not the same thing but it has its negative consecuences too and I find it really ignorant to not at least even acknowledge this fact.

Indica: I understand your "passion" for pot but let's just say I have a lot more years on you in life experience so take it from me, I would not be here debating something I also don't feel strongly about.
 indicalover
Joined: 3/25/2005
Msg: 68
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 8:40:16 PM
Sexy- I don't mean to take anything away from how you feel about the subject. And you are right about it having some negative side effects.

But pot is virtually harmless. Anything taken in excess can be bad. It's all about our choices that we make and which consequences we are prepared to accept.

For the record, I think that full head legalization isn't gonna happen anytime soon. But it should be decriminalzed, because it's SUCH a petty thing. And it should be allowed for medical use. (that's my real "passion".) If an agreement that occurs confidentially between a doctor and a patient that the patient could benifit from the use of marijuana (keeping in mind that MJ cures nothing, while aiding in the treatment of many things) then the government should butt out. When the government gets medical licenses, I'll sing a different tune. It shouldn't be up to them to decide, especially when so many of these prescriptions nowadays have such terrible side effects. I mean, you can barely get allergy meds, without sexual side effects, or something else. More than likely the Rx is pulled after a short period of time, because they discover that over time it's too harmful. (Vioxx- prime example)

I also for that matter don't understand how the FDA can give the go ahead on a drug that hasn't been tested as far as to realize long term effects. There have been so many studies on the long term effects of MJ, and everything pretty well points to the fact that there aren't any real long term maladies. Not so with ALOT of pharmaceudicals. But they keep it illegal, because "You'll hallucinate on two hits, and jump off a building because you think you can fly". Which is totally untrue. (If I ever smoked pot that made me hallucinate, I would have thought I'd died and gone to heaven. I only WISH I could find something like that...) But you take the side effects of some of these drugs on the market. Nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, headache, stomach bleeding, sleeplessness, restlessness, liver damage, digestive problems, memory loss, sexual side effects. If your erection lasts longer than 4 hours, it's a medical emergency. (Sorry guys!) Weight changes, mood swings depression and possible suicide (according to a class action suit against the makers of Neurontin), cramps, muscle aches, and I could go on and on- and a NUMBER of the rest of you could add your own.

I hear about all this, and I just for the LIFE of me don't understand why MJ isn't at LEAST decriminalized.
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 69
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 10:29:35 PM
But pot is virtually harmless. Anything taken in excess can be bad. It's all about our choices that we make and which consequences we are prepared to accept.


I'm sorry but the argument that a drug is "virtually harmless" if taken in moderation is simply not a good enough argument. With that kind of attitude one could also say cocaine and crystal meth if taken in moderation are virtually harmless and so are other designer drugs. And they ARE harmless taken in moderation. The point being anything in moderation is vitually harmless the question is what if anything can be introduced into society that has long term effects that are more dangerous than safe and that is worth taking that risk for? when it comes to street dugs, none of them not even pot.

 Im listening
Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 70
Dom me a favour!
Posted: 8/22/2005 1:11:47 AM
Do me a favour

So Smoking marijuana destroys brain cells does it?

tell it to the monks LOL


Look for Wade Davis’ the ethno-botanist and his personal experiences with marijuana
Or Andrew Weil book or http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/
http://library.thinkquest.org/C0115926/drugs/cannabis.htm
http://www.thinkquest.org/

or get on all but ignored threads regarding the CIA involvement in Guns drugs and the CIA
Or the Mena Arkansas Barry Seal
http://www.ncoic.com/clinton.htm
http://www.serendipity.li/cia/c_o_mena.html

History and usage
The narcotic properties of the hemp are well known to man from ancient times. In the different ages and cultures the psychoactive compounds that were made out of it have had different names therefore we shall call them as a whole cannabis. It looks like that the most probable place of birth of the hemp is China. The reason for this is that during some excavations on the island of Taiwan there have been found some ceramic utensils marked with a hemp rope. These utensils are thought to be 12000 years old. In ancient China they used to make threads and paper out of the hemp, the seeds were used for oil extraction and in medicine the stems were thought to be the best way to banish demons and evil spirits.

The first scientific data on the hemp was recorded in the ancient book of medicine “Pen Tsao”, thought to be written by the emperor Shen Nun himself. According to the Chinese the hemp resembled the perfect match between Inn and Ian; they knew for sure that this was a dioecious plant, or in other words there were male and a female plants. Through the eyes of the Chinese philosophers the male plant, from which ropes were made, contained the male beginning called Ian and that’s why the ropes were so strong. The female plant on the other hand was giving seeds, which contained the female beginning Inn and therefore the swallowing of the seeds or the inhaling of their vapors makes people calm and relaxed. In ancient Chinese medicine the hemp was used as an anesthetic, mostly taken in with wine. Apart from that people believed it might cure all sorts of diseases - from malaria to goitre.

During the medieval ages the usage of the hemp in medicine was reduced, but this led to its usage as a narcotic. This happened in about 600 AD. Its main supporters were the deonistic monks. Even back then the most popular members of the society stigmatized cannabis as a “reliever of sins”. But the deonistic monks reckoned that the chewing of the hemp seed makes people see spirits, and if people do this long enough they may even contact them. They suggested that the seeds are thrown in the fire and then everyone should inhale the vapors. This was a procedure, which was thought to be very valuable and that it was supposed to help you achieve immortality. Cannabis in China was always a mere pleasure for the eccentric brainworkers and its usage was never widely spread; the only serious social problems were caused by alcohol and later by opium.

From China the hemp was brought to India, where its psychotropic characteristics became an inseparable part of the culture of the country. Nowadays about 200 million people in India use cannabis. As the legend goes one day Sheeva (an Indian god) was resting under the shadow of the hemp and he tasted its leafs from curiosity. He liked it and from that moment on the hemp became his favorite food. From ancient times until today the leafs of the hemp are used for the making of a beverage called “bhang”, which is served in India, as tradition goes, to all the guests in the house. In many parts of the country people say that “a feast is no feast, when there is no “bhang” on the table”. Except leafs the “bhang” also contains milk, sugar and a wide variety of spices – from pepper to roses’ buds. In India the cannabis served the role, which the alcohol had in other societies. But some of the religious movements thought of it even more highly. The worshipers of the goddess Kali (the celestial wife of Sheeva) used it in their sexual rituals to achieve complete spiritual and carnal merging with the goddess.

The hemp was also known in other Indo-European nations. Herodotous describes its usage in the burial rituals of the Scythians: “ …they put three wooden sticks, bent towards each other. Then they stretch three woolen covers over them. They also throw some hot stones in a cup-like utensil, situated in the middle of the so made tent. Then, over the stones, they throw seeds of a hemp, which looks very much like flax. The thrown seeds make such a smoke that no other smoke-bath in Hellas can compare to it. Then the Scythians get under the tent. They are so fascinated that they start yelling with all their strength…” This ritual that Herodoteous thought to be used for clarifying of the body, looks more like a spiritual clarifying under the influence of the enchanting vapors. Plutarh and some other ancient authors a similar ceremony in the life of the Thracians; according to them the Thracians threw the ends of the hemp into the fire and then inhaled through hollow reed stems. As a result they acted as if they were drunk and later they went to sleep. In Europe the hemp was replaced as an anaesthetic by the alcohol long time ago but parts of those rituals have been kept alive in Eastern Europe until not so long ago. In Poland and Lithuania the soup of hemp seed is part of the traditional ritual for appeasement of the souls of the dead. In some parts of the Balkan Peninsula the villagers used to dance around a fire in which hemp stems were burned. The villagers were singing: ”We were in the fire and we didn’t burn, there was a plague and we survived…”

In the antiquity the hemp was popular as an exotic plant with unclear properties. Homer in his “Odyssey” describes how the beautiful Helena was suffering from depression and how she was healed with a cure which came from Egypt called “nepente” (against pain), in which many of today’s linguists see the slightly changed Egyptian name for cannabis – “nebeji”. Not until, the time of emperor August came, was the ancient world acquainted with the hemp. But even then it was thought to be a mere fibrous crop. Its narcotic properties were not known to men; the Greeks and the Romans, in this sense, worshipped the mandrake, the deadly nightshade and the henbane.

In the Islamic world the most popular of the products of the hemp is the hashish (it means “grass” in Arabic). The Koran strongly banned the alcohol but hashish very successfully has taken its place. People believe that it was brought to the Islamic world through Eastern Turkmenistan, but others think that the dervish Haidar is the one who made it all possible. He loved hashish so much that he even ordered his slaves to plant the hemp on his grave. Although the hashish was known to the Arabic world 10 centuries ago, its wide usage was connected to the prosperity of the mystical Islamic movement called “suffism”, whose followers were living as hermits, searching for ecstatic merging with God. The faithful Mohammedans were hostile towards the mystical quests of the suffists, because they thought that it is unnatural for people to live without sex. Something very interesting was the fact that hashish was blamed to be responsible for this withdrawal of people from sex. And about 1000 years later marijuana was thought to have the opposite effect – it was thought to be the reason for the aptitude of hippies to sex.

During the time of the crusades, a new Islamic sect became popular in Europe, a sect which used the hashish for its own purposes. The base of this sect was in the mountains of western Iran. In the castle of the leader, who was referred to as “The old man from the mountain”, there was a wonderful garden, full of beautiful flowers, fruits and women. The followers of the “old man”, who where intended to perform important missions, were first intoxicated with hashish and when they woke up they found themselves in the heavenly garden. After one day of happiness and unconcern they were intoxicated once more and then they woke up once more in the cruel reality of 12th century. The “old man” explained to them that they were in heaven and that Mohammed himself gave the “old man” the power to send people there for one day. After this experience the followers were ready to do anything, because they knew that after they die they would go into heaven. The sect was known by the name “Hashishists”, but the Europeans knew called them “Assassins”. They became popular after a series of brutal murders of kings and sultans, who were standing in way of the “old man”. Their name was a symbol of terror for both Christians and Muslims, until the Mongolians – another wild and uncivilized nation, who had never heard of the “Assassins”, wiped them out.

In 13th century the lovers of the hemp started organizing in groups. Their favorite gathering place was Cairo, which made the city look like today’s Amsterdam. In Cairo the clans gathered in the gardens of Kafur where they bred the hemp. Gradually they became so many that the governor of the city, under the pressure of his indignant subordinates, was forced to take measures; the hemp was burned and the dervishes were exiled. But the villagers from the near by areas started breeding the hemp and then they sold hashish to those who wanted some. The actions of the army to eradicate the sowings were in vain, having in mind the strong resistance of the manufacturers, who were defending their profitable business. Not to mention that corruption in the different levels of power made it impossible for the people to deal with the hashish-problem. The writer Mac’rizi, in 1393 AD, even complained: “…As a result of the moral degradation, the modesty has disappeared, and every bad man was doing his job…”. The situation back then very much resembles the one in Columbia and Burma nowadays.

From the Near East, through Ethiopia, cannabis was spread in eastern and later southern Africa. About 1600 AD the citizens of the south coast of Africa knew cannabis by the name of “dagga”. The story of the Bashilange people is very interesting. Their descendents live in today’s Namibia. Until the middle of the last century they were proud and warlike people, who lived at the expense of the other tribes. Then they became acquainted with the hemp, which fascinated them so much that they began worshipping it. The Bashilange people turned into a friendly and peaceful tribe, who even believed in the reincarnation of the soul. Even the judicature changed. The convicted one had to smoke until there was a confession of his or her crime or until he or she loses consciousness. But this peace, that everyone was enjoying so much, soon led to economic downfall, as for the vassals no longer paid out their taxes to the Beshilange. At last in 1876 AD the counsel of the elders was overthrown by the young strong people from the tribe, who restored the old traditions.

After America was found, the new continent revealed to the Europeans new horizons. In Europe and in its American colonies, the hemp became an important fibrous crop, but before the wars of Napoleon its narcotic characteristics were just something the scholars would argue over. The travelers told stories about how in the East the hemp was used as a replacement of alcohol. But it was not until the veterans from the Egyptian crusade of Napoleon came back and brought with them the hashish to Europe, where later it became fashionable in the high class of the society.

The story began with a French doctor named J.J. Moro de Tur. In 1845 AD he used the hashish as part of his treatment for melancholy, manias and other psychotic diseases. Meanwhile in Paris there were some rumors that some author promised a reward for the person who presents a new type of amusement. Dr. Moro decided to face this challenge and offered the author the first dose of hashish saying that this was the author’s part of the Heavens. The writer was astounded by the experience and later became the first member of “The Club of Hashishers”. The members of the club gathered once per month and some of them were from the highest rank of the then artistic class. Another writers and composers also wrote about hashish. The Cambridge students valued very much the so-called Turkish delight – bonbons with hashish, covered with sugar and gelatin. All kinds of cakes were made from hashish, all with different exotic names.

In the western hemisphere cannabis was known from ancient times, but it became widely spread in the USA at the beginning of 20th century. People believe that the Mexican workers brought it into the country. Marijuana meant every type of cheap tobacco in Spanish. Its usage was accompanied by the development of jazz and gradually from Louisiana through Chicago and New York, its path led throughout the whole country. In any case before the hippie-revolution cannabis was a type of amusement especially for the artists or for the poorest of black Americans. Because of this the campaign that was taken up by the Americans in the mid 30’s looked more like a racist act. The newspapers back then were full of frightening stories about black males who have smoked so much that they had turned violent and uncontrollable. As a result in 1937 AD a funny law was enacted: For every ounce of marijuana used for non-medical purpose the person had to pay $100. This was an enormous amount of money for the people who lived back then. Everyone who was caught with untaxed marijuana had to pay the absurd sum of about $2000 and most often those people went to jail for unpaid taxes. In the other developed countries there were no such laws - cannabis was simply banned together with the opiates and the cocaine.

Nevertheless or may be just because of this ban, the popularity of cannabis was gradually escalating until the 70’s from then until know the statistics show that its usage is stabilizing. At the moment the usage of cannabis in the developed countries is thought to be not so dangerous and many discuss the probability of it to be legalized.

Nowadays two completely different types of people use cannabis. The first one is the poorest stratum of some not so developed countries in the Middle and Near East, India and Jamaica. “The workers from the field of construction very often enjoy smoking their pipes full of ganja or drinking bhang. This makes them fell better, they don’t feel fatigue any more, they get hungry and it stimulates them, which help them overcome the burdens of the past day.” – states a report for the usage of cannabis in India. The other type resembles the educated young people from the industrial countries, for which the pursuit of new pleasures is actually a reflection of their dislike towards the requirements of the modern society. Although those two groups may look different, their members actually have a similar motivation. It is a result from the state of relaxation that cannabis leads to. It may not be able to help people get rid of their problems but at least to live with them.

Some authors stress on the fact, that these groups of people still have one very essential difference. In the East the usage of cannabis is a generally accepted way of relaxation; the people there take in relatively strong cannabis, as the main goal is people to feel its effect. In the West people think more about the social aspect of its usage – the young people smoke cannabis, because this can distance them from the life of the others. The effect of smoking of not so strong cannabis depends more on the environment, in which people smoke, rather than the effect of the substance itself.


Some authors stress on the fact, that these groups of people still have one very essential difference. In the East the usage of cannabis is a generally accepted way of relaxation; the people there take in relatively strong cannabis, as the main goal is people to feel its effect. In the West people think more about the social aspect of its usage – the young people smoke cannabis, because this can distance them from the life of the others. The effect of smoking of not so strong cannabis depends more on the environment, in which people smoke, rather than the effect of the substance itself.

http://www.roadjunky.com/travelculture/ganjahistory.shtml

Cultures all over the world used marijuana to get high and it was absorbed into many religious traditions. In India it became an aspect of Shiva and perhaps accounts for the almost permanently stoned expression of the blue-skinned God. The resin (charas or bhang) was mixed with milk and poured over huge phallic lingums in the temples dedicated to Shiva, the Lord of Bhang. Still today sadhus (Hindu monks) who belong to a Shivaite order have the right to smoke to their heart’s content.
The dervishes made plentiful use of hashish in the Muslim world though it was never quite clear what the Koran had to say about the matter. It wasn’t harem like alcohol but was still considered to be dubious. Hashish helped the dervishes in their ecstatic search for God but nowadays they generally rely upon dance, poetry and song to get high.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/sci_tech/features/health/medicinedrugs/plants.shtml
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 74
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 10:37:54 AM
^^ Clearly it makes some people emotionally unstable too! Why are you shouting dude? For an "easy going" pot smoker you demonstrate an awful lot of rage!!! I'd hate to have this conversation face to face...sheesh! Somebody didn't get their daily fix......


 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 78
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 12:15:03 PM
Using ethnic cultures who use drugs is not a great argument because what they use are forms of drugs that are very different from what is grown in the western world and today's versions of "hemp"are very different and a lot more potent than the stuff grown hundreds of years ago.

In Bolivia the Incas chew coca leaves, farmers and children and women are constantly chewing these leaves to get through the daily tasks. In Afghanistan they grow opium and smoke it and you can see men strung out on opium on the streets. In Mexico native tribes have Peyote which for some has produced out of body experiences putting them in touch with a different realm, for others it has made them completely lose the plot. What is your point???
When you consider the effects of "native" drugs on its people you also have to consider that there are generations of exposure to these drugs so the tollerance is built into the genes and thus making it safer to use for these people in particular. And don't kid yourself, oddly enough addiction still occurs in thes primitive settings.
 Im listening
Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 81
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 12:28:55 PM
Well yu may be sexy and yu may even be brainy
however on this topic you are ill informed and I suppose that is ok for you to be so I shall get to the other culture thing in a mo. For now if you wanna be be right be right for you and stop speaking in absolutes, or not
 Im listening
Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 82
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 12:51:03 PM
(Using ethnic cultures who use drugs is not a great argument because what they use are forms of drugs that are very different from what is grown in the western world and today's versions of "hemp"are very different and a lot more potent than the stuff grown hundreds of years ago. )

poorly framed argument and displayed unforgiveable examples.
Your assertion of brain damage was blown out of the water. Monks Sufi's have been smoking Hashish for hudreads of years and in the case of sufi's written poetry , created Philosophic argument, still in use to-day, all while smoking pure resin (hashish) of the female hemp plant which equals any current BC bud .
The chewing od caco leaf has no place in the argument of marijuan smoking nor does that of opium, peyote.

as for this blather, "When you consider the effects of "native" drugs on its people you also have to consider that there are generations of exposure to these drugs so the tollerance is built into the genes and thus making it safer to use for these people in particular. And don't kid yourself, oddly enough addiction still occurs in these primitive settings."
unless substanciated the argument holds no water.
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 86
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 1:46:12 PM
Well yu may be sexy and yu may even be brainy
however on this topic you are ill informed



well I am not illinformed and I have proven that since I have already backed up all my opinions along the way, the fact that you refuse to acknowlege my side of the argument is a different story. Again, you continue to put out your yellow journalism or porpagate in your favour and I will mine. That's what makes the forums interesting opposing views and thoughts. I will also continue to educate and be honest with youth on the negative effects of pot and there ain't nothin' you can do to stop that. Have a spliff for me on that one will ya? and then come back here show off your mood swings, this thread is great for showing the emotional stability of some! it's actually quite fascinating.



As far as personal preferences go, I personally would not want a pot head as my romantic partner, nor would I want him to father my future children. I personally have no use for addictions to mind altering subtances, my reality and persona is not so boring that I need a constant escape from it. So I would have absolutely NOTHING in common with a person who has a chemical dependency and feels the need to escape all the time. The way I choose to live my life is in the now and the here and I take enjoyment in both pain and pleasure life has to throw my way because that is living in the moment that is taking life by the horns and elevating myself to the next plane I want my EYES WIDE OPEN and I want to experience life in person not from couch and in my head. But that's just me, you go ahead and enjoy your fantasy on the couch doesn't do me any harm!!! More power to you if that is what you enjoy. I still don;t see how we would benefit as a society form making pot legal....and not ONE person has been able to tell me why and how legalizing pot would benfit us as a whole, users AND non-users? But I guess that's to be expected considering I am talking to a bunch of pot heads... perhaps the thought was started and you simply "forgot"to answer...
 Im listening
Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 88
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 2:29:45 PM
"perhaps the thought was started and you simply "forgot"to answer..."

some great red herrings ya got there brainy Now return to the issue of hundreds of years of holymen, sufi's and monks there wit wisdom oft quoted.

in your Hallucination of the world you are *right*



Again, you continue to put out your yellow journalism Yellow journalism ?
support this *fact*


"Have a spliff for me on that one will ya? and then come back here show off your mood swings, this thread is great for showing the emotional stability of some! it's actually quite fascinating"
what is this?^ Nothing but the last refuge of a fixed mind is what it is


you have asked what the benefits to society are by the use of drugs, fair enough. Art culture music are but a few.
I am willing to consider your claims and have found them wanting


wander around in this this unless you feel your education is complete. I doubt you will be swayed but hey who knows?
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/
 LegalWizard
Joined: 5/2/2005
Msg: 91
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 3:43:00 PM
Smoking pot is a crime because a free people elected representatives who determined as a finding of fact that marijuana use, possession, or distribution needed to be criminalized in order to secure the peace and welfare of the state and nation.

Illicit drug use builds civic low-life lifetime criminal scumbags among the population.

Its a drug!

Drugs and nuclear devices are not for recreational use, pot heads!!!

And those that use, possessess, or distribute marijuana need to go to an Aleautian Islands Prison to do their time, and then be released outside the gates of where they were incarcerated on islands where there is no ferry, no airport, and no bridge to anywhere, to serve long-term probation periods.

Adios Mi Amigo druggies.

Main street America is for those who want to get along and obey the law.

Criminals have a debt to pay to society of years of detention.

Its a great system.

We arrest those to use, possess, or distribute illigal substances and we chip away at the criminal element until those who are left are law abiding citizens.
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 92
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 3:43:44 PM
you have asked what the benefits to society are by the use of drugs, fair enough. Art culture music are but a few.




right because art does not already exists now that pot is illegal!
Like every single artist has his/her craft induced by pot smoking?? now that is simply silly.
Being one who appreciates art in every form I find it highly unlikely that all my favourite artists were smoking pot in order to produce the art I so enjoy. This is simply getting silly now



AGAIN, I would ask can anyone answer how we as a WHOLE would benefit from legalizing pot, but I won't since it's clearly there is no benefit? If the users can't come up with one good reason I doubt us non-users will pull for it!

I could care less how Woddy Harrelsen, Jack Nicholson, or Stephen King see pot!?!? or how they choose to destroy their brain cells! I am SO not ruled by the masses, obviously...

thanks for the laughs though!
 Im listening
Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 97
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 4:15:48 PM
"Illicit drug use builds civic low-life lifetime criminal scumbags among the population. "
Agreed! The CIA , Geo W Bush, certainly fit into this category



"We arrest those to use, possess, or distribute illigal substances and we chip away at the criminal element until those who are left are law abiding citizens. "

"Illicit drug use builds civic low-life lifetime criminal scumbags among the population."


See above response

 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 99
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 4:42:50 PM
I don't need to be "enlightened"with the fact that many famous people smoke pot, I know that! I am not oblivious to that. My point was that to answer the question "how does legalizing pot benefit our society"with "well it is good for the arts," it is flat out a stupid thing to say. That's like saying people wouldn't get laid it if weren't for booze! Just silly.

In fact, to all those people who think that you need pot in order for art to flourish I would invite them to visit Cuba. Here is a country with a thriving artisitc population where drugs are not only not easily accessible (for the toursits maybe not so for the locals) but even if one could get a hold of stuff it is too risky to indulge because if the super strict laws. We are talking life imprisonment and possible death. You can walk into any little village or any street down in old Havana and see the expression of its people through paintings, music and literature and I have spoken to these very people and not ONE of them needed pot to expand their vision and express their talent. I purposely have had this discussion with those people since in a place like that you'd think would be conducive to escapism yet one of the best answers I got was that for them expressing themselves through their art WAS the escape. There is this general tribalistc and primal feel that cannot be explained when you sit and observe the native people in El Malecon or walk down a side street off in Old Havana and see a man mid afternoon painting a human sized portrait of an abstract woman that is only alive and apparent in this artist's head, a sheer figment of his imagination contrastic the surroundings he paint in! You see art everywhere you go, EVERYWHERE. The art they produce is full of life and character. You feel the passion in the air. THAT is as real as life gets yet there is something so surreal about how they are as a whole and their surroundings. There is no high in this wold that compares to some of the discussions I have had with Cuban artists and their philosophies on life itself EVEN with the limitations they have to freedom of press, to travelling and the media itself they have managed to expand their minds in a way that neither you nor I might even undestand possible. Yet it is. And it all stems from something so basic like human suffering and longing, from animlistic passion. Something most HERE in our "bourgeois lives" forget we have. The point is EVERYONE is more or less artistic in Cuba and I know it's the same throughout humanity no matter where you are in the world, the difference is that we in the first world are so caught up in our superficialities we FORGOT how to get in touch with those inner artistic inclinations we all have so we NEED drugs in order for that expression to happen. It's sad, very sad!

So PLEASE do not try to tell me what is "needed" in order for art to flourish. Living in a society where everything and anything IS accessible there is no bigger deseased humanity than one who is so bored and nauseated by its own freedoms that feels the only cure for their self inflicted depression and apathy is the escape through chemically induced highs.

Don't undestimate my intelligence and give me the crap about art flourishing thanks to pot because THAT is naive. If you want to sit around and kill brain cells I said it a million times and I'll say it again, go for it but don't try to force feed me your bored views on how MY life would be better if we could make pot legal. My life is just fine thank you very much!
 mr.classicchevy
Joined: 2/27/2005
Msg: 100
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 5:21:10 PM
I got better things to do with my money to destroy my life.I work with so call grown men that get high on the job.Tell them one thing and 2 hours later they do not have a clue of what was siad.Totally brain dead....Having siad that i do believe before i reach 60 years old it will be legal along with alot of other things.I just tells me where society is going.When we as a society do not know right from wrong,Then we have fail as a society.
 SexyandBrainy
Joined: 6/26/2005
Msg: 104
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 9:29:39 PM
Ok Meekrob sorry but that is extreme. Let's at least be honest in that not everyone will ruin their lives smoking pot and it's simply not true that pot leads to other hard drug use. Some solely smoke pot and don't even touch a drop of alcohol. What does Mexcio, or the name marijuana have to do with anything????? Now I'm confused.
 Im listening
Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 106
Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 10:03:42 PM
Thank you s&b
And now that you have gone that far, go the distance and learn some more

Welcome to the CCLE’s Cognitive Liberty & Neuroethics course curriculum page. With the intent of making this course as easy as possible to organize and run, we are pleased to offer a syllabus, along with a reading package, to interested post-secondary professors and students.
Many academic institutions fail to discuss the topic and importance of cognitive liberty (the right of each individual to think independently, to use the full spectrum of his or her mind, and to engage in multiple modes of thought), even though the justification for their very existence depends on it. In today’s drug and technology saturated world, the topic of cognitive liberty is of utmost importance to anyone interested in living in a society where one has the ability to choose and voice one’s own viewpoint without fear of recrimination.
The course may be used as a complete package, or alternatively, one may wish to adapt modules from the course to fit into a pre-existing syllabus. Many of the readings are available on the web at the addresses provided: clicking on the links will open the readings in a new window. Other readings may be obtained from the CCLE. If you would like to run this course at your institution, or know of someone else who might, please contact us at info@cognitiveliberty.org
Continue for complete materials >>




Brief Description of the Course
Questions concerning freedom and coercion have played a fundamental role in the development of our society; the rapid flow of technological advances that we are experiencing often overtakes society’s ability to consider their implications in depth. Freedom and personal identity are being challenged on numerous fronts, and it is crucial that these issues be explored in a time when one’s perception of self identity may be bought, sold and manipulated in numerous ways. Cognitive Liberty may be defined as “the right of each individual to think independently, to use the full spectrum of his or her mind, and to engage in multiple modes of thought,” and is the basis of the rights conferred by the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution’s Bill of Rights. The course engages students in an engaging investigation of the ethics and implications of current social trends and practices affecting freedom of thought and mental autonomy, and covers topics including philosophy, technology, law, drugs, media, surveillance and academic freedom.
Why is "neuroethics" relevant to cognitive liberty?
Neuroethics is a new field concerned with the benefits and dangers of modern research on the brain, and by extension, with the social, legal and ethical implications of treating or manipulating the mind.
Growing knowledge in the neurosciences, enhanced by exponential advances in neurotechnology (technology that makes it possible to monitor and manipulate the brain) are rapidly moving brain research and clinical applications beyond the scope of purely medical use. As was the case in discussions of bioethics, neuroethics will predictably shift from questions concerning the treatment of patients with disease, to a debate over individuals' requests for voluntary, life-enhancing applications of new brain technologies. For example, as brain-to-computer interfaces are perfected and neuro-pharmacology becomes more precise and more sophisticated, the question of how these brain technologies relate to an individual's right to control or alter his or her own consciousness will emerge as central to the debate. Cognitive liberty and the conditions of mental autonomy are central to any discussion of neuroethics, and vice-versa.
Neuroethical inquiry must, then, necessarily involve discussion of personal autonomy. Technological advancements are often portrayed and marketed as life-enhancing, even though they may have negative connotations for both the individual and society at large. Examples of current problems related to the issue of brain and thought control include the forced drugging of non-violent prisoners (such as in the case of Dr. Sell), and the pervasive use of Ritalin on children diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (parents have been taken to court for refusing to drug their children on the basis of its dangerous side-effects). Altering an individual’s brain chemistry with certain drugs directly affects their personality, and the way in which they encounter the world; if a person is drugged against their will, they lose their autonomy, and perhaps their ability to ‘be themselves.’ Without autonomy, and the right to control one’s own brain chemistry, many other rights we value become meaningless.
Index to Course Materials
Brief Description of the Course
Weekly Topical Outline
Reading List
• Weeks 1- 6

• Weeks 7-12

• RTF version of complete reading list

• Additional Web Resources
Discussion Questions
Why Cognitive Liberty & Neuroethics?
• General Description

• Why is "neuroethics" relevant to cognitive liberty?

• Course Objectives
Feedback Form (Word Format)
Help for Students Interested in Teaching this Course (Word Format)
Course Flyer (Word Format)
Flyer for advertising course to prospective students.
Places This Course has been Taught
Announcements/Course News

Brief Description of the Course
Questions concerning freedom and coercion have played a fundamental role in the development of our society; the rapid flow of technological advances that we are experiencing often overtakes society’s ability to consider their implications in depth. Freedom and personal identity are being challenged on numerous fronts, and it is crucial that these issues be explored in a time when one’s perception of self identity may be bought, sold and manipulated in numerous ways. Cognitive Liberty may be defined as “the right of each individual to think independently, to use the full spectrum of his or her mind, and to engage in multiple modes of thought,” and is the basis of the rights conferred by the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution’s Bill of Rights. The course engages students in an engaging investigation of the ethics and implications of current social trends and practices affecting freedom of thought and mental autonomy, and covers topics including philosophy, technology, law, drugs, media, surveillance and academic freedom.
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Weekly Topical Outline
Click for Weekly Readings and Discussion questions
Week 1: Introduction to Cognitive Liberty
Week 2: Introduction II: Philosophical Issues
Week 3: Food for Thought: Input & Output
Week 4: Manufacturing Content I: Freedom and the Classroom
(Academic and Intellectual Freedom)
Week 5: Manufacturing Content II: The Construction of Social Meaning
Week 6: Consuming Thoughts: The Mass Media
Week 7: The Politics of Consciousness, Altered States, & Baseline Consciousness
Week 8: Drugs: A Highly Opi(nion)ated Battle
Week 9: Technology & the Mind I
Week 10: Technology & the Mind II: Social Implications
Week 11: Reading the Mind: Looking Out, Looking In-Surveillance Technologies
Week 12: Reality Models
Click here for an "rtf" version of the complete reading list with visible hyperlinks.
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Why Cognitive Liberty & Neuroethics?
General Description
Cognitive Liberty and Neuroethics is a course designed to get people thinking, to entice them to think about their modes of thinking, and above all to take their ability to think seriously. With the acquisition of a critical understanding of the proposed subject matter, students will gain an understanding of how such things as technologies, laws, and social rules factor into – and thus shape – their lives. Questions concerning freedom and coercion have played a fundamental role in the development of our society; the rapid flow of technological advances that we are experiencing often overtakes society’s ability to consider their implications in depth. Freedom and personal identity are being challenged on numerous fronts, and it is crucial that these issues be explored in a time when one’s perception of self identity may be bought, sold and manipulated in numerous ways. Cognitive Liberty may be defined as “the right of each individual to think independently, to use the full spectrum of his or her mind, and to engage in multiple modes of thought,” and is the basis of the rights conferred by the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution’s Bill of Rights. The course engages students in an engaging investigation of the ethics and implications of current social trends and practices affecting freedom of thought and mental autonomy, and covers topics including philosophy, technology, law, drugs, media, surveillance and academic freedom.
return to top...
Why is "neuroethics" relevant to cognitive liberty?
Neuroethics is a new field concerned with the benefits and dangers of modern research on the brain, and by extension, with the social, legal and ethical implications of treating or manipulating the mind.
Growing knowledge in the neurosciences, enhanced by exponential advances in neurotechnology (technology that makes it possible to monitor and manipulate the brain) are rapidly moving brain research and clinical applications beyond the scope of purely medical use. As was the case in discussions of bioethics, neuroethics will predictably shift from questions concerning the treatment of patients with disease, to a debate over individuals' requests for voluntary, life-enhancing applications of new brain technologies. For example, as brain-to-computer interfaces are perfected and neuro-pharmacology becomes more precise and more sophisticated, the question of how these brain technologies relate to an individual's right to control or alter his or her own consciousness will emerge as central to the debate. Cognitive liberty and the conditions of mental autonomy are central to any discussion of neuroethics, and vice-versa.
Neuroethical inquiry must, then, necessarily involve discussion of personal autonomy. Technological advancements are often portrayed and marketed as life-enhancing, even though they may have negative connotations for both the individual and society at large. Examples of current problems related to the issue of brain and thought control include the forced drugging of non-violent prisoners (such as in the case of Dr. Sell), and the pervasive use of Ritalin on children diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (parents have been taken to court for refusing to drug their children on the basis of its dangerous side-effects). Altering an individual’s brain chemistry with certain drugs directly affects their personality, and the way in which they encounter the world; if a person is drugged against their will, they lose their autonomy, and perhaps their ability to ‘be themselves.’ Without autonomy, and the right to control one’s own brain chemistry, many other rights we value become meaningless.
return to top...

Course Objectives
This course serves to fulfill two main purposes:
(i) to create a critical environment for the discussion of the topic of cognitive liberty, in which students may actively engage in informed discussions of matters pertaining to the subject, and
(ii) to provide a multidisciplinary forum inviting students to participate in a subject that simultaneously relates to their overall educational experience and to the day-to-day reality of their lives – hence the importance of such topics as surveillance, academic freedom, and the media.
Cognitive Liberty and Neuroethics will provide an opportunity for students and academics to critically assess their position regarding freedom of thought; the course will enable informed students to consider issues that affect the way in which society has organized and is organizing itself. Persons who are conscious of freedom-related issues will be more capable of affecting public policy in an educated and thoughtful manner, whatever their opinions on the matter may be. As our ability to think is affected and altered by rapidly advancing new technologies and techniques, it is of utmost importance that we understand the implications of such technologies both for the enhancement and / or the manipulation of members of society, including ourselves.


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