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 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 151
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Dating Etiquette of 21 century ADULTSPage 7 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
I see no problem with using the looks scale. 1-10, or whatever scale. It’s life. If used disparagingly, publicly, to the person that’s low on the scale, yes, it’s cruel. But as someone mentioned, and we see it in the animal world all the time…where one gender rejects mates til s/he finds one s/he likes. Sometimes scientists understand what the rejection critria is, sometimes not. Like I remember watching a show about tropical birds, and in some species outrageous plumage and outrageous dances tends to win the females over. The more outrageous the better IIRC. So there is clearly some quantifyig calculations done in those clever little bird-brains. But for some species it’s still a mystery as to the rejection criteria. What about measuring intelligence with IQ? That’s putting a number arguably much more unquantifiable than looks, and it’s done. Sure, IQ technically isn’t really used much to assess mates, even though intelligence is, but I say if we can assign a number to intelligence, we can for looks, at least for conversation value. And everyone can pretend looks aren't important, but we all know they are. So it’s natural to describe a scale to looks. Women rate men, too; and looks are a big part of that, but their rating system is more likely to describe the complete package, not only his package …. but looks, personality, character, intelligence, wit, wealth, etc. etc. It is what it is.
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 152
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Dating Etiquette of 21 century ADULTS
Posted: 2/11/2019 10:16:02 AM

Women rate men, too; and looks are a big part of that, but their rating system is more likely to describe the complete package, not only his package …. but looks, personality, character, intelligence, wit, wealth, etc. etc. It is what it is.
As women have social training to incorporate additional qualities when assessing the value of a intimate partner, the whole of society is also capable of appreciating and valuing diverse qualities. As long as we continue to accept and promote: "inherent" {personality/character} attributes correlated with purely expressed physical/material, we devalue our human existence, as well as shared human existence and the dynamics for growth offered.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 153
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Dating Etiquette of 21 century ADULTS
Posted: 2/11/2019 10:30:05 AM

As women have social training to incorporate additional qualities when assessing the value of a intimate partner,

Really and where did they get this social training? Home Economics?
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 154
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Dating Etiquette of 21 century ADULTS
Posted: 2/11/2019 11:26:30 AM
Oh thank you Hemingway.....Message 50, I think.
I could not bear to read the whole thread. Is it about you pays or who says thank you? Argggg. If you're not planning to see the guy again, pay half. Fair. Reasonable. If he insists on paying then say $#@%^& THANK YOU and leave a tip.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 155
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Dating Etiquette of 21 century ADULTS
Posted: 2/11/2019 12:20:52 PM
From Post #4:

A woman owes no man a damn thing for accepting HIS INVITE.

You cannot hold every man's feet to the fire because of the mere potential of a date going wrong -- and then spring this 'Get-out-of-Jail-Free' card. It doesn't work that way. Decency is obligated from ANYONE in dating - but it is not a signed contract. Going out with someone means you are agreeing to give them a crumb of trust and at least a chance to make a good impression. Making a bad impression does NOT mean anyone owes you something. You don't get your money back when you gamble on the lottery and lose. Geez, when I see statements like this I get the picture of some bully mom suing the school district because their little prick of a kid did not get the starring role in a play or captain of the lacrosse team.

Men invite women out because generally, women won't. End of story. Women generally don't run into a Men's bathroom to do their thing without a guy checking to see if the coast is clear, too. There is no debt to be paid, or owed, or anything else. Getting invited out does NOT make you the exception - it's pretty much the rule. If you want to be exceptional, than invite the GUY out, and accept ALL the potential damage that could happen. Not just an invite for the elite type of person you see as an 'ideal' match - because that doesn't make you special, either. Dating involves risk, from everyone involved - and ranting in here about your pain or inconvenience being worth more than any other soul just absolutely screams of vain insecurity.
 johnfromzelie
Joined: 3/8/2018
Msg: 156
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Posted: 2/11/2019 12:36:44 PM

Getting invited out does NOT make you the exception - it's pretty much the rule. If you want to be exceptional, than invite the GUY out, and accept ALL the potential damage that could happen. Not just an invite for the elite type of person you see as an 'ideal' match - because that doesn't make you special, either. Dating involves risk, from everyone involved - and ranting in here about your pain or inconvenience being worth more than any other soul just absolutely screams of vain insecurity.
yes, when ones 'mere presence' has more value than my own, i would rather just stay home! time to buy a purple motorcycle? nah, most every other poster agreed that common decency and manners are expected.
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 157
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Posted: 2/11/2019 3:32:53 PM
^^Thank you For reasonable sound responses- realizing this is not- who pays etc! And is indeed about as an adult in this century realizing the ownness/risk is best assumed by both parties! AS i said these reasonable logical responses- especially from my male counterparts have been very helpful. And representative of current social dynamics.
 johnfromzelie
Joined: 3/8/2018
Msg: 158
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Posted: 2/11/2019 3:57:03 PM

yes, when ones 'mere presence' has more value than my own, i would rather just stay home! time to buy a purple motorcycle? nah, most every other poster agreed that common decency and manners are expected.
just to be clear, I am not insulting someone that choses to avoid dating altogether. if my dates or several more posters had the same attitude, I would be motorcycle shopping! I have had my share of bad dates but not enough to give up (yet).
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 159
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Posted: 2/11/2019 7:42:01 PM
I did not think there was an insult. And Any of my dates I value their presence way over mine-I find their mere presence rewarding-otherwise i wouldn't choose to meet them: I'd stay home doing my drywalling and remodeling.. and research.. if i don't think it will be of value-yeah the house stuff wins out. I am not ready to put all of my excess energy into material objects but yes it has an appeal.LOL
 Peppermint_Petunias
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 160
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Posted: 2/11/2019 11:47:44 PM
$ 100 for lunch?
Where are you eating,what and with who Miss MTC?

I can whip up some good *vittles* for a week on that.
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 161
Dating Etiquette of 21 century ADULTS
Posted: 2/12/2019 9:34:39 AM

And Any of my dates I value their presence way over mine-I find their mere presence rewarding-otherwise i wouldn't choose to meet them


Sometimes there's a fine line between enjoying someone's presence, and groveling with gratitude over their presence. I made sure not to cross that line. If I sensed after meeting a man that he was less interested than I was, I backed off.
 Clytemnestra
Joined: 6/6/2018
Msg: 162
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Posted: 2/12/2019 10:03:43 AM
msg#160:
$ 100 for lunch?
Where are you eating,what and with who Miss MTC?

I can whip up some good *vittles* for a week on that


The cost of 'secret eating' can really add up~

hahahahaha
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 163
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Posted: 2/12/2019 10:07:18 AM
I re-read the OP and some more of the thread and still can't figure out if it is about who pays, whether they said thank you or if it is a gender issue. It seems that other posters were confused as well. I'm not sure if the OP is just really smart or if I am just really stupid. Like....if someone buys you a coffee, meal, gift, whatever....say thank you. If you are comfortable having someone buy you a meal when you have already decided you don't want to see again, that's on you...but say thank you. My preferred meet is a glass of wine and a shared appetizer. I always offer to go Dutch and have always been refused so I insist on leaving a generous tip. Whatever works for you but use common courtesy and say thank you. All of this applies to men or women. There. I think I covered it?
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 164
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Posted: 2/12/2019 11:07:17 AM
^^^^^

I re-read the OP and some more of the thread and still can't figure out if it is about who pays, whether they said thank you or if it is a gender issue.

Don't feel alone Shirley because many of our fellow posters, like you are quite misinformed when it comes to dating so I've decided to post this Educational Film which will hopeful clear up so many of the misunderstandings on here.

Dating Do's and Don'ts (1949)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxBOSdl-b54
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 165
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Dating Etiquette of 21 century ADULTS
Posted: 2/12/2019 11:29:10 AM
_Rise_Above_This_. Thank you but I think I made it clear that it was the actual topic of the thread that I didn't feel was clear. I think I'm pretty clear on the dating process being 58 and having been single on and off for almost 30 years and only alone for the last 4...by choice.
 _Rise_Above_This_
Joined: 1/14/2018
Msg: 166
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Posted: 2/12/2019 11:34:53 AM
Um. Did you think I was serious when I posted that? It's what our grandparents and parents were taught in school and the way society thought at the time.
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 167
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Posted: 2/12/2019 11:54:04 AM
Ok...lol.
I didn't watch the video. Busted. My bad.
 whiterose0
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 168
Dating Etiquette of 21 century ADULTS
Posted: 2/12/2019 2:18:53 PM

I re-read the OP and some more of the thread and still can't figure out if it is about who pays, whether they said thank you or if it is a gender issue. It seems that other posters were confused as well.


At first, it appeared the OP was asking if it were prudent to thank the person who incurred the cost of the date. I assumed she meant thanking the person at the end of the date. Most people, including myself, were in favor of it.

It later came out that what the OP was actually asking was if it were prudent to make a follow-up thank you call after the date had ended. Opinions varied. This was what caused most of the confusion.
 GodlessGal
Joined: 10/19/2018
Msg: 169
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Posted: 2/12/2019 3:36:07 PM
Ever notice how men accuse women of arrogance for accepting a paid date? Weird how they dont consider it arrogance to expect a woman risk pregnancy or std to get them off for that burger though, hey?
 johnfromzelie
Joined: 3/8/2018
Msg: 170
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Posted: 2/12/2019 4:01:42 PM

Ever notice how men accuse women of arrogance for accepting a paid date? Weird how they dont consider it arrogance to expect a woman risk pregnancy or std to get them off for that burger though, hey?
is the man not also risking an std or unwanted child? what does the man get for getting you off? the 'arrogance' is thinking your part has more value!
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 171
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Posted: 2/12/2019 4:09:53 PM

I really don't understand how anyone could justify using a rating scale to describe someone's looks. It's basically putting a value on them as a sexual commodity.

For the same reason I'd rate someone's sense of humor on a 1-10 range. Or their juggling skills. Freeze-frame: Why is this not so offensive, but doing something like looks or intelligence is? Because the people who Are Offended Care A Lot More about it; otherwise they wouldn't be so emotionally sensitive (vs juggling or even sense of humor). And again, 1-10 range is just a basic way to cut through the vagueness of adjectives.

Sally: His sense of humor is OK...
Julie: OK, like good OK or "meh" OK?
Sally: No, it's not bad at all. He's a cool guy.
Julie: Alright, on a scale of 1-10, how is his sense of humor?
Sally: I give it a 5. He does Have a sense of humor, if that's what you're wondering.

Sally: If I had some pics, I'd show ya, but honestly, his looks are OK...
Julie: OK, like good OK or "meh" OK?
Sally: No, he's not bad looking at all. He's a cool guy.
Julie: Alright, on a scale of 1-10, how does he look?
Sally: That's SO offensive to even ask! OMG! Is that all you care about?!
Julie: Wow. You're Really sensitive about looks. It must bear a lot of weight in how people perceive yours, Sally.

If used disparagingly, publicly, to the person that’s low on the scale, yes, it’s cruel.

I agree. And as pointed out, so can adjectives. Even on a worse scale, if one desires. The 1-10 scale, whether it be looks in general, stylishness, a particular skill or attribute about them -- just serves to weed out vagueness. People who embrace the P.C. world embrace vagueness when it comes to emotionally sensitive things like looks or intelligence, as to not to offend someone. But again, adjectives can certainly do worse if one wishes not to go the vague-route. In a nutshell, a small minority don't want in any context or setting, to have people size someone up in looks.

So it’s natural to describe a scale to looks. Women rate men, too;

Sure, of course it's natural. It's natural to be attracted to looks as a very key ingredient. We rate things that are or aren't that important. And we rate things when using adjectives like "very good looking" or "very smart" or "very good juggler". You don't have to refer to any specific 1-10 when one says "He's not good looking at all" or "He's super hot" -- one already gets the picture on where it stands. One should be equally upset at using language like that, on either end.

Ever notice how men accuse women of arrogance for accepting a paid date?

No, not really.

Weird how they dont consider it arrogance to expect a woman risk pregnancy or std to get them off for that burger though, hey?

Why would the guy think the gal was arrogant for accepting that he pay for the burger, in exchange for getting him off? I don't see how 'arrogant' would be the first word to come to mind for either of them. But then again, I haven't been to Burger King in a while. Maybe I should!
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 172
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Posted: 2/12/2019 5:44:25 PM

Ever notice how men accuse women of arrogance for accepting a paid date?

Arrogant and narcissistic men do that kind of thing. Control freaks.
The other thing they are really good at is selling confidence up front.
I'm not the person being baited by a bunch of big talk - just the witness next door rolling my eyes.

Sorry not sorry that you keep meeting arrogant d-bags, but your ARE ignoring a lot of ordinary Joes because you feed off that confidence that you lack. If you keep expecting Prince Charming to one-up the last guy in order to impress you - you get what they sell. A steaming pile of bullsh1t.
 GodlessGal
Joined: 10/19/2018
Msg: 173
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Posted: 2/12/2019 7:35:26 PM

is the man not also risking an std or unwanted child? what does the man get for getting you off? the 'arrogance' is thinking your part has more value!


Nope, men don't risk all the hazards that come with pregnancy from gestation and health compromise to labor and breast feeding - men abandon their children often and women have little recourse, that's why child support became a phenomena to begin with. Men also are not as vulnerable to stds by proxy of having external genitals. Men also don't suffer reputational stigma for having multiple partners and they certainly don't bestow orgasms on women anywhere near the rate women bestow them upon men. Women face greater risk, and less reward, so of COURSE many of them will look for compensation in other ways. Besides, the way men value appearance, its not like they aren't just as exploitative as women in the sex game
 GodlessGal
Joined: 10/19/2018
Msg: 174
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Posted: 2/12/2019 7:37:47 PM

Arrogant and narcissistic men do that kind of thing. Control freaks.

Agreed




Sorry not sorry that you keep meeting arrogant d-bags, but your ARE ignoring a lot of ordinary Joes because you feed off that confidence that you lack. If you keep expecting Prince Charming to one-up the last guy in order to impress you - you get what they sell. A steaming pile of bullsh1t.
You just took it too far. You don't know me, you aren't up in my inbox, you don't know what type of responses I get or who I ignore and why. You are assuming, based upon your angst at the dating game
 johnfromzelie
Joined: 3/8/2018
Msg: 175
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Posted: 2/12/2019 8:30:39 PM
well if I owe you a cheeseburger for sex, I will just pass.
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