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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?      Home login  
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 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 151
Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? Page 7 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
^^^^ if fixit was Billy, he has some valid issues with the world's economies...agreed his crapola about the US being communist is conspiracy junk, not sure where that came from...these guys are delusional to an extent, course as they see it, they are the only ones who actually know what is going on.
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 152
Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 2/25/2019 7:10:20 AM
"""Tiny minded naive men like you whom walk around in a coma thinking their government have their best interests at heart. You don't matter one bit!"""

It's pretty clear you have zero idea what opinions people Express on these forums because the quoted statement from you takes the stupid fuk post of the week award. That's what you self denying conspiracy buffs always do, offer opinions never supported by facts, logic or reason. That's why you are conspiracy buffs..you talk out of your rearends.
 Spectrallight
Joined: 9/14/2018
Msg: 153
Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 2/25/2019 8:27:52 AM
Here's one conspiracy theory for you. You can get laid! Oh, and Cross dressers don't count :)

OHH Schnaappp!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS. Don't actually have a real gripe with you. Just playing your game lol

TWMA

----------------------------------------------------
blah blah blah posts limit text blah blah
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 154
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 2/25/2019 10:15:22 AM
LeFou
"@ Drac

Now how the hell would i know?........You'd be better asking our Bondsy. They did not fix it as he now is. He is the geezer who knows about these things.

My reply was directed at "fixit", not you......yet you decided to interject....about something you say you know little of.

I'm just a thick decorator i am. So YOU tell ME.

Well, I'm just a curious "sherman".........and although i do have a good idea on what the answer is....I would want to hear it from Mr Fixit...since he is the one who disparagingly threw this remark onto his post...in an attempt to degrade the very same social programs that he (and you) are benefiting handsomely from since the end of WW2....so I was just wondering "whose money" was being spent.....and when it was going to "run out"!"


Humble apologies gadgie. I'm using the auld dog and bone to type with and posted before I'd had my tea and toast.

No doubt Bondsy will amble along and reply.

As for our social policies they go back to the fabian society and a eugenics undercurrent.

I'm away into Christchurch for a nice steak and all the trimmings for my tea.

Appy polly lodges again though.
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
Msg: 155
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 2/25/2019 10:22:28 AM
"Donald's putsch on Venezuela has upset me. Elliott Abrams is apparently bringing aid to the down trodden people of the aforementioned country. What the ...is going on? I thought Donald wouldn't turn out like Obama and Bush but here we all are again. "

>>>it is nice to see people strong enough to admit the emperor has no clothes. it will only strengthen the conservative side to admit to reality. pretending the president is anything other than what he is, doesn't do them any favors...honest.

"Margaret Thatcher said loosely that socialism was truly wonderful but eventually, sadly you do run out of other people's money. "

>>>the irony of course, is that non-americans keeps giving their money to us. they invest in our treasury bonds b/c it continues to be the safest returns. in doing so, republicans charge less in taxes but raise the debt. so much for the military industrial complex running out of money :) the world wants our dollar to be strong so their products are cheaper in market than ours' are their markets. and so long as the saudis sell oil in dollars, no one wants to devalue the dollar.

the pound no longer has that demand for it. its not the world currency it once was.
 Theydidnotfixit
Joined: 8/19/2018
Msg: 156
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 2/25/2019 1:45:53 PM
I love Americans and Hamilton is my favourite musical...and the place in Scotland is my favourite place. Also Vlad is an icon of the UK forums.


I have to say that England started World War one. Just as Germany nudged ahead we took them down. America's intervention in 1917 created a British win and after the old Versailles fandango we kept Germany down. This led to the guy with the small moustache and that led to world war 2 and America's rise to global superstardom. 


I don't know if you would call that a conspiracy theory but that's my opinion.


In 1944 at bretton woods the u.s. dollar became the world's reserve currency. 


Triffin's dilemma : I think it was Robert ?Triffin that said that America must run a persistent trade deficit as the world's reserve currency. This meant really that America after a few brief decades in the sun would eventually export its actual wealth aka its manufacturing base to Asia etc and go broke. 


There's two ways of looking at the world. One is as an American empire, albeit an empire that like England in the late 19th century with Germany, now feels challenged by the rise of China a rise  which America facilitated. Perhaps, maybe.. thinking the Chinese were going to be like Japan or west Germany who were  buried inside a daft european superstate at the end of world war two.  Second as a global supranational entity. We, the u.k. and  brexit...are small fry. 


So whose money ? And when is it going to run out ? ....I'd say the money is properly the workers of the world's money.


I think, I mentioned that money should store people's work, our present "money"  doesn't. It's inflationary. Inflationary simply means that wealth can be confiscated without legislation, quietly and unobserved from the workers of the world. I think marx or perhaps Keynes mentioned this. It's all true. 


This should have become clear after America defaulted officially on her financial obligations on August the15th 1971 but we all live busy lives and well, maybe you think I'm having you on. 


Can I also tell you something rum about our "money" ?  it's debt. So for example if we paid off all our debts ??? We wouldn't have any "money". Yes debt is circulated as our " money". And there are legal tender laws to make sure we use it. 


When does it run out billy ???  Sorry. Ahem, it's a mathematical thing and a confidence thing. For instance I own a lot of gold and some silver. But for so many other people, it seems to me, the worst the maths gets the more confidence they get. Go figure as you say. 


Communism : yep , I'm being invidious and It's polemic, although if there are any commies out there perhaps I'm bringing hope. That said the federal funds rate is set by a committee (fomc) and I think it should be set by buyers and sellers. I know,  it's quaint. But I was brought up on the folly of lefty bureaucrats setting prices and the malinvestments and famines and killing put me off it all. Sorry. 


I know that u.s. debt is a perceived safe haven. And because of that the dollar might well get a bid. Great for you, bad for the world, and then bad for you. Foreign central banks are buying gold.


I think we live in a era where we get names wrong. I don't mean wicked meaning great.But printing money meaning tax cut . Aid to the long suffering people of Venezuela meaning = give us your oil ( money) .


It's a piece of paper. In the petrodollar system, it's the oil that's valuable. Obviously the headchoppers get looked after. But don't forget you didn't succeed in Syria.


The world has stopped buying treasuries. Americans are now buying them, their pensions, worker's savings etc ..Eventually you will monetise your unpayable debt. And you won't have the exorbitant privilege of exporting your inflation to the world.
 LeFouGamboj
Joined: 11/17/2018
Msg: 157
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 2/25/2019 6:13:09 PM
^


So whose money ? And when is it going to run out ? ....I'd say the money is properly (sic) the workers of the world's money.


Wrong answer!...............working class folk don't generate enough money in taxes to cover for things like Hemo-dialysis, Cardiac surgery....joint replacement surgery......myriads of cancer treatments, on a grand scale...etc...so unless your NHS isn't providing these services to your people......there is some serious money coming from somewhere.....and it ain't from the plebs!

So unless you are just printing out (useless) monetary notes........my guess is that its the upper crust of your society that is paying a good share of taxes for your "social" programs.......and in which case, the money is not likely to run out (contrary to what your pro-corporate shill ex-PM Thatcher "the milk snatcher" stated)....because if so...it would have run out long ago!


When does it run out billy ??? Sorry. Ahem, it's a mathematical thing and a confidence thing. For instance I own a lot of gold and some silver. But for so many other people, it seems to me, the worst the maths gets the more confidence they get. Go figure as you say.


Well this (non answer) ^ again is contrary to what Thatcher remarked...........or was she just spewing out propaganda just like our conservative elected officials do (for the purpose of duping the very dupable......into thinking that whatever is good for them is bad......and whatever is bad for them is somehow good!).

Let me break it down for you like this:

"other people's money" = the taxes paid by the middle class and the rich (who got rich by way of the working class) who pay a FAIR share of their taxes into the system.

" Running out of money" = is what happens when the corporate rich are given huge undeserved tax breaks

Now you do the math!

By the way............I'd be interested in knowing if Thatcher ever got a charge (just like the little school kids who got charged for a small can of milk......to keep the money from "running out") or invoice for services, medications when she took ill and for her various hospitalizations before she died!
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
Msg: 158
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get rich or die trying. or overwork and accomplish both
Posted: 2/27/2019 10:31:46 AM
"working class folk don't generate enough money in taxes to cover for things like Hemo-dialysis, Cardiac surgery....joint replacement surgery......myriads of cancer treatments, on a grand scale."

>>>sadly, if the working class continues to support all attempts to raise their pay (b/c somehow it hurts business making record profits and having taxes cut), then the only way they can a middle class life is if things are made cheaply in other countries. america is supposed to have this great medical situation due to the Free Market, yet people keep taking "medical vacations" to have work done cheaper in other countries.
 Theydidnotfixit
Joined: 8/19/2018
Msg: 159
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 2/27/2019 11:15:32 AM
^^^^ I'm not sure what you mean as you got a lot going on in that post but I'll try to respond .

First I want more equality because the ever increasing inequality is not a good thing going forward societally.

Secondly I look at the American empire which has used the federal reserve note up to now with increasing violence to stretch things out. I also look to China's rise and lastly to the forces of globalisation.

Thirdly I don't consider this world has a monetary system. It's a credit based inflationary one. Also we don't have free markets, the price discovery mechanism has been obliterated. I think there are monumental economic imbalances, hence it's hard to know whose money it all is.

Remember I told you that money should be a store of value as not was one way that a worker could have their labour stolen. The federal reserve note as the world's reserve currency is also the reason why America's manufacturing jobs went to Asia.

Money for me should represent the worker's honest efforts. Inflationary money or fiat currency or someone else's liability doesn't. This is the contention between us, perhaps. You, I think don't dwell on the nature of our money. I repeat in the petrodollar system it's the oil that has value not the liability. I can't stress it enough the paper that the rich have in such unending abundance is not the value it's the worker that produces value and the paper that steals it. We need an honest money system so we can persuade you over time that a worker can afford healthcare without Charity or the intervention of a larcenous, armed bureaucracy. 

Where are we today ? Unequal. Politically, we have Trump, Macron, the yellow vests, Brexit, the five star movement, AOC (on topic)... what is occuring here is that  those in political office are being removed, this dynamic will continue. Left, right, it doesn't matter most voters believe it's the politician or their left..right affiliations that will fix things ...no. 

The global monetary system broke ten years ago. The monetary high priests have us drugged up to our eyeballs, greater and greater doses are needed to maintain any stab at yesteryear. Last year they were falling over themselves to proclaim mission accomplished. Cue immediately the global slowdown which shows no sign of stopping yet, as they run around shouting why don't we know what the day of the week it is.

The GLOBAL emergency response is still with us. All that can happen now is more of the same can kicking. More debt, more leveraging of asset prices, more inequality, more negative interest rates and soon modern monetary theory...which is really a rather historical and familiar road of our overlords that they nearly always take and of course, even more violence. 

A happy outlook would include savings. But our finest, left or right have a policy of debt. Again only my opinion,  but gold is very cheap. Is it a conspiracy theory to say it's manipulated ? I don't care as its cash settled futures market is the manipulation. We don't have money. In 5000 years of history we have never mandated by committee zero price interest rates .Negative prices ...yes.. let me see,  I pay to work right. Even slavery was better paid. Boy is the propaganda powerful.
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 160
Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 2/27/2019 12:22:27 PM
Too late to go back to the gold standard now Billy. The piper will need to be paid. I just hope it is soon, at least trump will be toast. In the meanwhile, my daughters will pay rent rather than buy.
 LGL1975
Joined: 6/7/2015
Msg: 161
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/1/2019 6:22:02 AM

And althought LGL seems to vent about “no difference” between the parties, he always seems to have it in for liberals. If he thought there was truly “no difference," he would be more even handed in his attacks. I’ll let him respond to that if he wants. He bashes AOC and Bernie, but both represent differentiation away from neoliberal policies that both parties have agreed upon since the '80s.


There is no need to attack the republicans because anyone with a brain already knows they are crooks who serve the ruling class.

I attack the democrats because it is the left that is failing in its responsibility to the working people. That's how real politics works. If you want socialism then you have to get rid of the liberal democrats and replace them with social democrats.
 platitude545
Joined: 10/2/2018
Msg: 162
Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/1/2019 8:48:33 AM

There is no need to attack the republicans because anyone with a brain already knows they are crooks who serve the ruling class.

I attack the democrats because it is the left that is failing in its responsibility to the working people. That's how real politics works.]


I actually agree with you here, its been a long time since either party has served the people...its always been about them, not about us. And yes, the GOP are in particular a vile party...never used to be that way but the GOP of old no longer exists.

I get why a populist was popular this past election, but Trump by all subjective and objective standards is an abysmal failure as not only a President but a Human Being, and yet the Cult loves him. Not sure what that says about the USA.
 LGL1975
Joined: 6/7/2015
Msg: 163
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/1/2019 11:20:41 AM

I get why a populist was popular this past election, but Trump by all subjective and objective standards is an abysmal failure as not only a President but a Human Being, and yet the Cult loves him. Not sure what that says about the USA.


Trump accomplished exactly what he wanted which was to give the ruling elite another huge tax cut at the expense of workers and the middle class.

Trump has also convinced the liberal opposition that all of this is the fault of the white underclass. So he and all of his rich friends are not failures. They are winning bigly.

You can't really blame the white trash for thinking Trump was going to look out for them because the Democrats have been saying the same thing. That Trump is a white supremacist who wants to build a wall on the Mexican border.

Republicans are winning at what they do because liberal democrats just aren't worth a damn. And a real socialist looks at the situation and recognizes that both of these parties are controlled by money and only represent the interests of the ruling class. Just like real nationalists recognize that Donald Trump was never going to recognize our interests.

Democrats who think that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders are real socialists are going to feel the same disappointment that Trump supporters are experiencing when he doesn't live up to their expectations.
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
Msg: 164
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/1/2019 1:12:23 PM
"I don't consider this world has a monetary system. It's a credit based inflationary one."

>>>alas, there are times credit comes in handy. how many of us could afford a house or a car repair/replacement without taking a loan? sometimes the government works the same way--chump wants a wall, he has to get the money from someplace.

"The federal reserve note as the world's reserve currency is also the reason why America's manufacturing jobs went to Asia."

>>>america went from an agrarian economy, to the industrial revolution, to financial corporations. I suspect developing nations will eventually follow the same path, from farmer to factory to...well, maybe they'll skip to internet commerce? the Great Depression convinced america unfettered capitalism could be bad, and that the New Deal and other socialism was the way out. Maybe we'll see the pendulum swing again?


"I attack the democrats because it is the left that is failing in its responsibility to the working people."

>>>sometimes, we can't save the voter from themselves. they wish to vote against unions b/c the rich man told them to. they vote to put conservative judges on the bench who will give them more Citizens United rulings. They vote for politicians who keep selling them trickle down economics. They vote against climate change then wait for the next flood or hurricane. and so on. but yes, the Dems channelled their inner Willie Sutton--they saw the GOP went to Wall St b/c that's where the money's at. Politics used to run on money b/c they needed ads on TV and in newspaper...but now we have...social media.
 LGL1975
Joined: 6/7/2015
Msg: 165
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Posted: 3/3/2019 11:11:41 AM

>>>sometimes, we can't save the voter from themselves. they wish to vote against unions b/c the rich man told them to. they vote to put conservative judges on the bench who will give them more Citizens United rulings. They vote for politicians who keep selling them trickle down economics.


People didn't vote for Reaganomics or neoliberalism. They had to choose between a candidate who hates white men and one that hates brown women and children.

See both candidates latch themselves onto your most basic instincts and then the media decides the outcome by how many times they push that button.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pB9rJQsAxo
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 166
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/5/2019 7:35:12 PM
LGL


There is no need to attack the republicans because anyone with a brain already knows they are crooks who serve the ruling class.

I attack the democrats because it is the left that is failing in its responsibility to the working people.
Guess that’s a fair enough answer.


That's how real politics works. If you want socialism then you have to get rid of the liberal democrats and replace them with social democrats.
By “liberal Democrats”, I assume you mean pro-capitalist, pro-Wall Street, limo liberals. Clintonian Dems. Here in the U.S, where we’re so brainwashed that billionaires know the best, multinational corporations know best, we need to shovel them even more billions…latte sipping “liberal Democrats” is about the best we will get, sadly. Which is one reason I vacillate between electing disruptors vs….just staying home on election day with a six pack, flipping a bird at the tube, and just saying f*k it…. And it’s one reason I’ve never been that upset over Trump, nor someone like AOC, being elected. Or Bernie. Or that Muslim lady who’s in hot water now..forgor her name. Of course they're crazy! Disruptors! Which is what we need!


People didn't vote for Reaganomics or neoliberalism. They had to choose between a candidate who hates white men and one that hates brown women and children.
”Hate” is too strong a word, but this is somewhat the case. Overall I think you over emphasize this aspect though. There are other factors such as abortion, guns, gay and trans issues, etc. etc. etc. However I will agree cultural/social issues have come to define the major differences between the parties – especially the differences trumpeted by media – and not economic issues. Just the way the business elites want it because they get to pick our pockets relatively unimpeded. Amidst all the continuing tabloid spectacle of fighting over social issues, - by design, by the way - people don't even realize they've voted in neoliberalism..again and again...for 40 years. The ongoing weakening of workers/middle class and the resulting inequality have happened right under our noses as a result.

Baldwin:

>>>sometimes, we can't save the voter from themselves. they wish to vote against unions b/c the rich man told them to.
Yes but also because the Dems didn’t offer anything much to prevent that, and definitely not anything that would strengthen private sector unions or the balance of power between labor and capital.


They vote for politicians who keep selling them trickle down economics.
Yes, politicians of both parties.
 LeFouGamboj
Joined: 11/17/2018
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/6/2019 4:00:40 PM
^




Disruptors! Which is what we need!


do we???

Well, this just in......while under this "disruptor" (or perhaps 'corruptor' is a better word)...........the merchandise trade deficit just went up to almost 900 Billion (890 to be exact)....from 800 billion in a little over 2 years..............and this is another thing he was blasting Obama about when campaigning

Also, as a side note GM will be closing its plants in Ohio.........to leave 1000's out on the lurch..........ah but who needs those crappy "manufacturing" jobs when there is globs of those great service sector jobs being created by the minute..........just like Trump promised

Let us not forget the nat'l deficit gaining another Trillion since the GOP passed the tax reform............maybe I'm a bit short sighted, but I don't see any disruption going on........I just see the swamp getting bigger!

And the band played on.....
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 169
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/7/2019 8:20:59 AM
LaFouGamboj wrote:
do we???
Yes.


Well, this just in......while under this "disruptor" (or perhaps 'corruptor' is a better word)...........the merchandise trade deficit just went up to almost 900 Billion (890 to be exact)....from 800 billion in a little over 2 years.
Probably would have been worse under a Dem, as they would have approved the TPP.


.............and this is another thing he was blasting Obama about when campaigning
I’ve written here before how I support fair trade and more tariffs, yet they must be carefully considered, thought out, and implemented over a period of time. While I support the tariffs, I don’t support the willy-nilly way they have seemingly been implemented by Trump and his team. Planning and scheduling would soften the economic blow. But no matter what, the piper needs to be paid for decades of artificially cheap stuff pouring over the borders, and there would still be some economic disruptions with “fairer” trade, no matter how carefully it's plannned out.. Far as I’m concerned – Tough doo-doo! I mean after all….business and Wall Street can cause as much economic disruption as they please while chasing profits, i.e. 2008, yet we're all trained to wring our hands at steps taken to strengthen labor because of the potential "disruption" it may cause. Just goes to show how much we’ve all been so brainwashed to think in lockstep with big capital and the super-wealthy business class in this country. It’s sad.

What is disruption anyway? I think we can all do without a new Iphone every other year, as the cost of more quality working class jobs back in the U.S. We all act like it's our birthright to have access to an unending stream of ever-cheap consumer junk and gosh forbid if the price goes up a bit to help balance out the inequities of deregulated commerce. Not to mention to keep stuff out of landfills, which used to be a concern of good liberals. Don't know what happened to that as they jumped on the consumption-at-all-costs bandwagon.


Also, as a side note GM will be closing its plants in Ohio.........to leave 1000's out on the lurch..........ah but who needs those crappy "manufacturing" jobs when there is globs of those great service sector jobs being created by the minute..........just like Trump promised
Did Trump promise more service sector jobs? Doesn’t sound like him, so don’t know if I missed that, or if you’re being facetious. Cuz that sound something like a starry-eyed limo liberal would say as h/she, or “ze” sipped their latte at Starbucks.


Let us not forget the nat'l deficit gaining another Trillion since the GOP passed the tax reform....
Yes, setting the stage for the Dems to cut Medicare and Social Security when they get back in power.


........maybe I'm a bit short sighted, but I don't see any disruption going on.......
Waitta minute! I thought everything Trump was doing is seen as disruptive to the anti-Trumpers?!?!
 LeFouGamboj
Joined: 11/17/2018
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/7/2019 9:00:02 PM
^

Probably would have been worse under a Dem, as they would have approved the TPP


and you think that it is a bad thing for the trade deficit to rise within the context of the TPP?......compared with the trade deficit rising without having a TPP?

read this short article:

https://piie.com/blogs/trade-investment-policy-watch/what-impact-will-tpp-have-us-trade-deficit

make sure you read the last paragraph under the "reality check" heading


While I support the tariffs, I don’t support the willy-nilly way they have seemingly been implemented by Trump and his team.


This ^ is why Trump & team are not disruptors.........they are "destructors"........they wish to destroy a system without a methodical transition into another one..............a disruptor does not have to be callous!.......he can undertake all this after a well though plan of action.........compare Trump to a coach of a sports team, who tells his side before a game,...."hey, we gotta go out there and score points, anyway we can"..........and juxtapose to his opponent coach who tells his squad......" we got to defend well against players X, Y, and Z.......and quickly pass the ball to our best scorer, AFTER we take possession".

I compare Trump's aspirations to that of Napoleon...........a man who went all out to fight wars without weighing the pros & cons of what he was engaging in......he won many battles, but lost the whole war


But no matter what, the piper needs to be paid for decades of artificially cheap stuff pouring over the borders, and there would still be some economic disruptions with “fairer” trade, no matter how carefully it's plannned out


as i said on the other thread........no company/business...is going to start making a product here in the US.....that is not sellable due to exuberant production costs.

The VCR was invented and developed in the US..........but could not be mass produced here because it would have cost the consumer around $ 5 grand for such an item..............hence, the rights were sold to Sharp, Sony, etc....and soon enough they became available at "affordable" prices


What is disruption anyway?


Its when you just bought a ticket to a ball game.....sat in your seat, watched the game and on your way out you see a signs that says, "Starting Next week, all ticket prices will go up by 2% weekly for 4 weeks"

Now compare this^ scenario to a case of "destructiveness"---->You buy a ticket to a ball game, you take your seat, and just as the game begins...........a bunch of guards walk up to you and say....."the ownership just raised the ticket price by 15%, so you will need to pay us the difference right now, or you'll be thrown out"


I think we can all do without a new Iphone every other year, as the cost of more quality working class jobs back in the U.S.


except that no politician on either aisle....would ever be a vocal proponent of this ^........lest he or she is looking to commit political suicide.


Did Trump promise more service sector jobs?


No, he just promised jobs..............I facetiously called the service sector jobs crappy, because you called them a "pipe dream", on the other thread.............because if that is what they are, then his promise is even more vacuous!


setting the stage for the Dems to cut Medicare and Social Security when they get back in power.


in the "socialist" spirit....I guess!


I thought everything Trump was doing is seen as disruptive to the anti-Trumpers


again.....the right word is Destructive (like what termites do to the frame of a house)...not disruptive
 kavapaw22
Joined: 10/3/2018
Msg: 171
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/8/2019 5:15:15 AM
^^^^I agree, destructor more accurately describes Trump then disruptor, yet that is exactly what his supporters want. Destruction.
 SS4544Spd
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Msg: 172
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/8/2019 8:36:59 AM
LFG:
and you think that it is a bad thing for the trade deficit to rise within the context of the TPP?......compared with the trade deficit rising without having a TPP?

read this short article:

https://piie.com/blogs/trade-investment-policy-watch/what-impact-will-tpp-have-us-trade-deficit

make sure you read the last paragraph under the "reality check" heading
Well first of all, the PIIE was started, and I’d imagine still underwritten by billionaire neoliberal financier Pete Peterson’s estate. The same guy who wanted to fix our deficit problems by gutting Medicare and Social Securty….while conveniently overlooking the ~$100 billion per year of corporate tax evasion and the additional $10’s of billions more of private tax evasion (At least he used to, haven’t paid him much heed in several years and he is now dead) So while interesting, I will take PIIE conclusions with a grain of salt as I doubt any substantive papers opposing the neoliberal global consensus is allowed at his site. Not to say I have not been guilty of citing Billionaires' think tank sites myself, but it does make my point that it’s increasingly billionaire financiers – on both sides – who are shaping our arguments along the lines they want us to argue about.

In the end…..the TPP is overwhelmingly a pro-corporate and pro-investor trade pact. We need to go the opposite way. It gives corporations and investors the power to sue governments that want to pass regulatory laws. Corporations and bankers become more powerful than governments even more than now. And in the U.S., even supporters concede it would lead to more working class jobs sent offshore.

And for the ”reality check:”
Because the objective of the TPP negotiations is to allow US firms and workers to do more of what they are most competitive at, raising productivity, wages, and profits at home,
I think again, this is code-speak for “maximum profits,” really. There is no mention, anywhere, in the piece about a net increasing jobs in the U.S., much less what type of job we gain (working class vs. white collar). And “raising productivity,” of course, can be construed to mean offshoring factories, laying off workers, increasing immigration, etc. etc.et c. Of course, a slave wage worker in an authoritarian country, toiling in an unregulated factory, is more “productive” than a free, U.S. worker with protections. Again, it seems like we’ve (not you specifically, but just people in general) been brainwashed to take the side of corporate elites and bankers, which was my original point.

Back to the PIIE article….I don’t pretend to understand all the “balance” measurements, but I think this is all elite-speak to support their further desires of big capital to align the world’s societies, goverments, and cultures to march in lockstep with their desires for maximum profits. I oppose that.


This ^ is why Trump & team are not disruptors.........they are "destructors"........they wish to destroy a system without a methodical transition into another one..............a disruptor does not have to be callous!.......he can undertake all this after a well though plan of action.........compare Trump to a coach of a sports team, who tells his side before a game,...."hey, we gotta go out there and score points, anyway we can"..........and juxtapose to his opponent coach who tells his squad......" we got to defend well against players X, Y, and Z.......and quickly pass the ball to our best scorer, AFTER we take possession".

I compare Trump's aspirations to that of Napoleon...........a man who went all out to fight wars without weighing the pros & cons of what he was engaging in......he won many battles, but lost the whole war
I suppose Trump et. al, may believe their time is short, possibly only 1 term…even 4 years is short, and with the Dems roaring back, and that doesn’t even take into account he may be removed from office for one reason or another before he even completes a term. I do believe someoe like Pence – more a neoliberal than Trump, more of a cookie cutter corporate bootlicker – would abandon all the trade and immigration stuff – because those are two biggies that big business definitely DOESN’T the GOP to push because they threaten profits and strengthen labor in the U.S. That is why I favor Trump vs. Pence, or any other GOP corporate puppet.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 173
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/8/2019 8:48:07 AM
LFG:
as i said on the other thread........no company/business...is going to start making a product here in the US.....that is not sellable due to exuberant production costs.

The VCR was invented and developed in the US..........but could not be mass produced here because it would have cost the consumer around $ 5 grand for such an item..............hence, the rights were sold to Sharp, Sony, etc....and soon enough they became available at "affordable" prices
Not sure where you get your numbers, but OK. But of that $5K, wondering how much of that was due to lax tariffs here in the U.S, and unfair currency manipulation by the Japanese. Not to mention direct government subsidy to Sony, et. al. Much of Asia’s rise was due to artificial reasons having nothing to do with the “high” cost of U.S. labor. And once U.S. factories and supply infrastructure was shuttered due to these artificial, government-designed factors, of course it is more expensive to manufacture in the U.S.. Cuz there are no factories nor workers left!


Its when you just bought a ticket to a ball game.....sat in your seat, watched the game and on your way out you see a signs that says, "Starting Next week, all ticket prices will go up by 2% weekly for 4 weeks"

Now compare this^ scenario to a case of "destructiveness"---->You buy a ticket to a ball game, you take your seat, and just as the game begins...........a bunch of guards walk up to you and say....."the ownership just raised the ticket price by 15%, so you will need to pay us the difference right now, or you'll be thrown out"
Sure. I don’t defend Trump’s methods in implementing tariffs; however with the time stipulations I noted above, and knowing Congress (Dems AND GOP) opposes common sense trade policy, (at the behest of donor$ pocket$), his advisers are probably telling him to force-jam these things through quickly. Kinda like the ram job on passing O-care after Kennedy died and a Scott Brown replaced him. They knew the wave of opposition was growing – “Do it fast! Now!” But, in the end, I support “willy nilly” over status quo, on trade. Just like the Dems settled on Ocare.


except that no politician on either aisle....would ever be a vocal proponent of this ^........lest he or she is looking to commit political suicide.
Sure, I agree, for the most part. But I think some would be surprised the pushback would not be as fierce as people think. IIRC, over 50% of Iphone is made in advanced countries (Germany, Japan, S. Korea) with labor costs HIGHER than in the U.S. Explained in this context I think most Americas would want to know WHY? (Of course it’s debatable whether Americas would want to change that when they found out that part of the reason is a reward for allowing military bases on their soil from which we can protect oil fields, shipping lanes and bomb poor, brown people but I digress).


No, he just promised jobs..............I facetiously called the service sector jobs crappy, because you called them a "pipe dream", on the other thread.............because if that is what they are, then his promise is even more vacuous!
I think Trump’s inference was his “jobs” were “good” jobs, which in Trump’s followers’ world, means manufacturing, mining, etc. etc. Not service. If he said “More jobs at Wal Mart!” IDT he would have had as many who voted for him.
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/8/2019 9:32:51 AM
One of the challenges to chump's claim about trade deficits is, that he only counts goods, not oil or services being sold out of america. we may produce less "things", but we've become a net oil exporter for the first time since i think the 1950's or earlier. Generally speaking, red states may make more consumer goods, and blue states may offer more services, but when you include services (not as easy to count as objects), the deficit decreases. also what has raised the deficit is consumer confidence--there's a rich man in the white house, unemployment is low, so people feel its time to spend again.

meanwhile, as for iPhones, investors think apple is in eventual trouble b/c their eggs are in that one basket. companies that focus on one thing to sell, eventually fall victim to either someone building a better mousetrap or trends changing. Eastman Kodak, for example, had the film market sewn up until cellphones came with cameras.

"Not to mention direct government subsidy to Sony"

>>>its interesting that we think this is unfair. Pharmaceuticals do a lot of drug work in public university labs. the race to space (and the tech that resulted) wasn't funded by Howard Hughes, but NASA. Defense contractors have DARPA (and then sell it commercially, like GPS). capitalism hates the idea of government interference, but will accept tax breaks and SBA subsidized low interest loans and so on. not to mention, asian economies don't suffer like the Soviet Union did under direct government assistance to companies...maybe they're onto something. we can cry its unfair or we can try something we're halfway to, that seems to work.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
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Why Are People Obsessed With Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?
Posted: 3/8/2019 1:29:22 PM
Now far be it from me to say i told you so yonks ago but i did. Brexit, trump, bernie sanders and london labours jeremy corbyn have all shown that politics has changed forever in our respective nations.

Brexit is tearing politics in the uk apart. And it is glorious. A vote that meant something. And more to the point a vote that ripped the cozy elitists apart. Working class britain kicked the entitled in the balls. And we KNOW things will get worse. Well maybe a bit worse than they are now.

In shermanland bernie scared the shit out of the entitled clinton. And now bernies acolytes are making a play against the wall street democrats.

And its being reported over here about the muslim lassie omar being embroiled in an anti semitic row.

But what i found more interesting is her criticism of st obama. She gives him a fair auld shoeing.

So shermans. How do yous think her ripping into the saintly obama will affect her career? It seems like she is not afraid to let rip at sacred cows.

And do yous find it refreshing that the new young gun democrats are not afraid to speak their minds?

Genuine question like.
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